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12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He has no facts that support that.    All of his examples surrounded Lucks injury or his early retirement.    And none of them supported the idea of a lack of dedication or commitment.

 

There are no stories linked.   No quotes.   Nothing reputable.    No story about Luck not doing enough work,  or not coming in early or always leaving early.     There's none of that.   The poster claimed Luck threw interceptions because he hadn't done enough film study to know what he was seeing.     And there's zero to support that.    Things can be proven if there are stories that support it.    So, the poster noted that Manning was legendary and fanatical about doing prep work.   And it's true.   Those stories are common across the NFL community.   But just because a player doesn't have those kind of stories written about them,  doesn't mean the player isn't decicated.    That's a leap way too far.    It's as if the argument is...   you're either as fanatical as Peyton Manning, or you're not dedicated enough.   There's no room in the middle.    And in most any argument,   most of the truth is going to be near the middle.

 

I believe Luck was very dedicated. It is the old, well if you aren't Peyton Manning then you have under achieved. I got news for everyone nobody is Peyton Manning. Just like the same people that say, the Pats won 6 SB's and we only won 1. Well maybe it is because they have had a better overall team than we have had for most years in the Brady and Peyton era. They also always had better coaching.

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Honesty can't say I've intently watched rivers every play in every game over the years. But I would say he's better at pre snap reads which of course helps him being better at quick post snap rea

The poster didn't give you an answer you asked as of 4 days later, but I share the same sentiment of not being a fan of Luck and I'll tell you why.   1.) The early retirement: It wasn't just

Not sure why this thread is even relevant?  Andrew is gone, history,  He left on his terms, I respect that, although the timing was a little messy.  I enjoyed watching him play, and cursed him at time

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will add to this, most people think Ben belongs in the Hall of Fame but what makes him so special compared to Rivers or Eli? Ben has never won a SB MVP or an MVP, Eli has 2 SB MVP's, and both have just as great of stats as Ben does. If Rivers won a SB it would be a no brainer that Rivers belongs.

Ben has a much better win % than Eli, not even close.  

Ben - 144-71

Eli - 117-117

 

Pass completion:

Ben - 64.3%

Eli - 60.3%

 

TD/INT

Ben - 363/191

Eli - 366/244

 

Rating

Ben - 94

Eli - 84

 

No question about Ben being the better QB.

I don't use popularity awards game Superbowl MVP's, Probowls as much of a determining factor.  In fact, his first Superbowl MVP was with 55% completion and a passer rating of 87.  QB's always get the MVP unless another player really stands out.  Kind of a default.   

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2 minutes ago, Myles said:

Ben has a much better win % than Eli, not even close.  

Ben - 144-71

Eli - 117-117

 

Pass completion:

Ben - 64.3%

Eli - 60.3%

 

TD/INT

Ben - 363/191

Eli - 366/244

 

Rating

Ben - 94

Eli - 84

 

No question about Ben being the better QB.

I don't use popularity awards game Superbowl MVP's, Probowls as much of a determining factor.  In fact, his first Superbowl MVP was with 55% completion and a passer rating of 87.  QB's always get the MVP unless another player really stands out.  Kind of a default.   

By the eye test I would take Ben as well but Ben was terrible in his 1st SB win lmao 

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32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

By the eye test I would take Ben as well but Ben was terrible in his 1st SB win lmao 

Yeah, but he was great in the 3 playoff games to get them to the Superbowl (Bengals, Colts, Broncos).  

 

I can agree to disagree.   I have always wanted the HOF to be more selective than they are.   If they are staying consistent, both Eli and Rivers will get in along with Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Russell Wilson and probably Kirk Cousins, Derick Carr and Dak Prescott.   They will all most likely be in the top 10-15 in passing yards all time.  

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4 minutes ago, Myles said:

Yeah, but he was great in the 3 playoff games to get them to the Superbowl (Bengals, Colts, Broncos).  

 

I can agree to disagree.   I have always wanted the HOF to be more selective than they are.   If they are staying consistent, both Eli and Rivers will get in along with Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Russell Wilson and probably Kirk Cousins, Derick Carr and Dak Prescott.   They will all most likely be in the top 10-15 in passing yards all time.  

See that is where it becomes weird to me because I do not see Matt Stafford, Kirk, or Dak as Hall of Famers. I would take Rivers in his prime over those guys. I do like Matt Ryan, he won an MVP and should've won a SB.

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I am appreciative of all the threads since I posted the first one. I am excited to see this year's Colts take the field. The only weakness is the defensive backfield.  If the DL can compensate with their strong rush it will help. 

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1 minute ago, AustexColt said:

I am appreciative of all the threads since I posted the first one. I am excited to see this year's Colts take the field. The only weakness is the defensive backfield.  If the DL can compensate with their strong rush it will help. 

Pass rush is a huge a key, I agree.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

See that is where it becomes weird to me because I do not see Matt Stafford, Kirk, or Dak as Hall of Famers. I would take Rivers in his prime over those guys. I do like Matt Ryan, he won an MVP and should've won a SB.

Yeah, but the HOF takes overall yardage as the main determining factor.   If Stafford play till he's 38-40 and averages 4000 yards a season, he'll probably end up in the top 5-6 all time in yardage.  He'll be in the HOF even though he was not a top 5 QB in any of the years he played.   

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Just now, Myles said:

Yeah, but the HOF takes overall yardage as the main determining factor.   If Stafford play till he's 38-40 and averages 4000 yards a season, he'll probably end up in the top 5-6 all time in yardage.  He'll be in the HOF even though he was not a top 5 QB in any of the years he played.   

Other factors like SB wins is factored in as well. Your post as a lot of truth to it though because stats are a big part of it.

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He has no facts that support that.    All of his examples surrounded Lucks injury or his early retirement.    And none of them supported the idea of a lack of dedication or commitment.

 

There are no stories linked.   No quotes.   Nothing reputable.    No story about Luck not doing enough work,  or not coming in early or always leaving early.     There's none of that.   The poster claimed Luck threw interceptions because he hadn't done enough film study to know what he was seeing.     And there's zero to support that.    Things can be proven if there are stories that support it.    So, the poster noted that Manning was legendary and fanatical about doing prep work.   And it's true.   Those stories are common across the NFL community.   But just because a player doesn't have those kind of stories written about them,  doesn't mean the player isn't decicated.    That's a leap way too far.    It's as if the argument is...   you're either as fanatical as Peyton Manning, or you're not dedicated enough.   There's no room in the middle.    And in most any argument,   most of the truth is going to be near the middle.

 


Ok, for the sake of this discussion let’s say you are right about all that. I saw it clearly as an opinion but maybe some others don’t. My point was when you were telling someone they can’t present their opinion as fact you did the exact same thing about him.  We are all guilty of it so I don’t see the need to call people out. 

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10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I disagree. He has thrown for nearly 60,000 yards and will pass that mark this season. He has started in 224 straight games, and by the way he has made the Pro Bowl 8 times. It is kind of hard to be an all-pro when you have had Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in the same conference as you during your prime years. Same for winning an MVP, Drew Brees has never won MVP either because of Brady and Manning and now Mahomes.

Agreed. Some times a great player is surrounded by greater players. Swap teams for Brady and Rivers, and I'm sure we'd be singing a different tune. LAC has been very erratic on both sides of the ball for a very long time. Some times they had a great O with a not so great D, sometimes a great passing game with a bad run game (like in Reich's time there), etc.. Lately, they've ignored the OL for the last 5 years. I mean, it took perfect timing for Peyton to win here. And Peyton was a lot better than Rivers. 

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9 hours ago, runthepost said:

Carr in my opinion was/is a better fit for this offense than Rivers

I do agree Carr would be great for this O, but not sure I'd say better than Rivers. Rivers can be an exceptional QB with a good OL, which he has now. The only nod I give Carr over Rivers is age right now.

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Just now, EastStreet said:

I do agree Carr would be great for this O, but not sure I'd say better than Rivers. Rivers can be an exceptional QB with a good OL, which he has now. The only nod I give Carr over Rivers is age right now.

Yeah if I had to choose between 30 year old Rivers and 30 year old Carr, I am taking Rivers but Carr was my first choice too just because of age now. I still think Rivers may have a couple of good years left though.

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14 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah if I had to choose between 30 year old Rivers and 30 year old Carr, I am taking Rivers but Carr was my first choice too just because of age now. I still think Rivers may have a couple of good years left though.

It may just be wishful thinking, but I think Rivers will be fine.  I think the fact he was basically cut from LAC, will inject a few years of youth, and be a positive chip on his shoulder. 

 

I do like Carr though. He's been a product of some bad teams. He had a great 2019 without a good supporting cast. I think he'll have an even better season this year. LVR are one of my dark horse candidates.

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6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He has no facts that support that.    All of his examples surrounded Lucks injury or his early retirement.    And none of them supported the idea of a lack of dedication or commitment.

 

There are no stories linked.   No quotes.   Nothing reputable.    No story about Luck not doing enough work,  or not coming in early or always leaving early.     There's none of that.   The poster claimed Luck threw interceptions because he hadn't done enough film study to know what he was seeing.     And there's zero to support that.    Things can be proven if there are stories that support it.    So, the poster noted that Manning was legendary and fanatical about doing prep work.   And it's true.   Those stories are common across the NFL community.   But just because a player doesn't have those kind of stories written about them,  doesn't mean the player isn't decicated.    That's a leap way too far.    It's as if the argument is...   you're either as fanatical as Peyton Manning, or you're not dedicated enough.   There's no room in the middle.    And in most any argument,   most of the truth is going to be near the middle.

 

Just for kicks, I did a search for anything about Andrew and his work ethic. I found nothing but praise, even during his string of injuries. If anything, and this is just an observation, it seems like he became more obsessed with trying to improve and get healthy, to the point that he burned himself out. 
 

I can’t imagine going through all of the rehab and training, and then experiencing setback after setback, only to get injured again, and possibly start all over. That’s demoralizing. 

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5 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:


Ok, for the sake of this discussion let’s say you are right about all that. I saw it clearly as an opinion but maybe some others don’t. My point was when you were telling someone they can’t present their opinion as fact you did the exact same thing about him.  We are all guilty of it so I don’t see the need to call people out. 

They can present their opinion as fact.   Go re-read my posts in this thread.  I didn’t say you cant do it, I’m just not a fan if it.   There’s way too much of it here on this website for my comfort level.

 

Im just saying if you post an opinion as fact, don’t be surprised if there’s some pushback.  Don’t be surprised if you get challenged.   That’s all. 
 

Im not a moderator.  Just a poster like most everyone here.   I have no power or influence.   I want everyone to enjoy the site.  But internet message boards  can sometimes get a little rough.   It’s not always for the meek and mild.   We reportedly have roughly 20,000 members.   But I’d guess the number of actual regular posters at only between 300-500.   It’s not just as easy as simply posting.   Other people are going to respond.   And that’s how we got here. 

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18 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Just for kicks, I did a search for anything about Andrew and his work ethic. I found nothing but praise, even during his string of injuries. If anything, and this is just an observation, it seems like he became more obsessed with trying to improve and get healthy, to the point that he burned himself out. 
 

I can’t imagine going through all of the rehab and training, and then experiencing setback after setback, only to get injured again, and possibly start all over. That’s demoralizing. 

 

A lot of guys go through the bolded above. It's part of the game/sport. I'm not saying it's easy at all, some folks simply deal with it differently. All folks have different levels of "want" and "need" for the game. And some have far less options and $, so their decisions are different. Luck was born into $, and didn't "need" the game at all from a financial perspective. Minus that factor, he was left with only his "want" or desire. I certainly don't blame him, but I am a bit disappointed like a lot of folks.

 

I don't question his work ethic at all. It is fair game to question his toughness, love for the game, or commitment to the team though. Honestly if I had his cash, and family, I'd probably choose quality of life too. Nothing wrong with what he did, but it will bring about discussions.

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

They can present their opinion as fact.   Go re-read my posts in this thread.  I didn’t say you cant do it, I’m just not a fan if it.   There’s way too much of it here on this website for my comfort level.

 

Im just saying if you post an opinion as fact, don’t be surprised if there’s some pushback.  Don’t be surprised if you get challenged.   That’s all. 
 

Im not a moderator.  Just a poster like most everyone here.   I have no power or influence.   I want everyone to enjoy the site.  But internet message boards  can sometimes get a little rough.   It’s not always for the meek and mild.   We reportedly have roughly 20,000 members.   But I’d guess the number of actual regular posters at only between 300-500.   It’s not just as easy as simply posting.   Other people are going to respond.   And that’s how we got here. 


Ok.  You do it too.  Moving on

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In their prime I'm taking rivers simply because he will be healthy nearly no matter what. I dont care if Luck is a tiny bit better overall I think he showed for a number of reasons he couldn't remain healthy. He retired because of that fact. 

 

Right now? We dont even know which rivers we have. 

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I just wonder how many Colts fans would be arguing that Rivers is a HOF QBs if he wasn’t currently our QB?  Personally, I never really saw him as an elite QB.  Always pretty good though but not quite good enough to get you over the hump to being a serious Super Bowl threat.  You just knew he would stumble and fall short along the way.  In fact, I was often upset that the Colts with a clearly superior QB in Peyton would be bested so often by the Chargers and their whiny, pretty good but not great QB.  Heck...Rivers and the Chargers couldnt really make any noise against anyone else in the playoffs.  Lol  I still view Rivers the same way only I don’t see him as a whiny brat anymore because he is our guy now. I have learned that there is a lot more to him.  I actually like his personality after becoming more familiar with his values.  But I still don’t think he belongs in the HOF. He might be washed now.  However, if he somehow defies the odds and gets us a Lombardi, I reserve the right to change my mind. 

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17 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I believe Luck was very dedicated to snowboarding while reading and using a flip phone, all at the same time.

fixed 

 

 

:peek:haha

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7 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

I just wonder how many Colts fans would be arguing that Rivers is a HOF QBs if he wasn’t currently our QB?  Personally, I never really saw him as an elite QB.  Always pretty good though but not quite good enough to get you over the hump to being a serious Super Bowl threat.  You just knew he would stumble and fall short along the way.  In fact, I was often upset that the Colts with a clearly superior QB in Peyton would be bested so often by the Chargers and their whiny, pretty good but not great QB.  Heck...Rivers and the Chargers couldnt really make any noise against anyone else in the playoffs.  Lol  I still view Rivers the same way only I don’t see him as a whiny brat anymore because he is our guy now. I have learned that there is a lot more to him.  I actually like his personality after becoming more familiar with his values.  But I still don’t think he belongs in the HOF. He might be washed now.  However, if he somehow defies the odds and gets us a Lombardi, I reserve the right to change my mind. 

I don't know if he's HoF material even now that he is a Colt.  To me, he's gonna have to do something before he retires to solidify it.  IE: Win the big dance.  If he can't win a Superbowl, its gonna be much harder to convince me he should go there.  and even then, I'm not sure I'd put him there. I also wouldn't put Eli Manning in it either, despite two rings.  To me, the HoF should be reserved for players that transcended the sport, revolutionized or stood out against their peers during their careers and over a long period of time.  Rivers is and has been good.  But when he's looking at a HoF roster of QBs from his era, Peyton, Brees, Brady just to name a few, his HoF status gets blurry. 

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Super bowls are not the measuring guide nor a necessity for a QB to reach the hall of fame.

Sonny Jurgenson, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton, Y A Tittle and Dan Marino are in the hall of fame without a super bowl ring.

I think there are a few more but I would have to look it up.

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39 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Super bowls are not the measuring guide nor a necessity for a QB to reach the hall of fame.

Sonny Jurgenson, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton, Y A Tittle and Dan Marino are in the hall of fame without a super bowl ring.

I think there are a few more but I would have to look it up.

Agreed. Though I do think it should be reserved for pioneers or standouts of the game. Players who did exemplary things on the field. 
 

Rivers will probably make it in, but I don’t think it will be first ballot. 

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15 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

I just wonder how many Colts fans would be arguing that Rivers is a HOF QBs if he wasn’t currently our QB?  Personally, I never really saw him as an elite QB.  Always pretty good though but not quite good enough to get you over the hump to being a serious Super Bowl threat.  You just knew he would stumble and fall short along the way.  In fact, I was often upset that the Colts with a clearly superior QB in Peyton would be bested so often by the Chargers and their whiny, pretty good but not great QB.  Heck...Rivers and the Chargers couldnt really make any noise against anyone else in the playoffs.  Lol  I still view Rivers the same way only I don’t see him as a whiny brat anymore because he is our guy now. I have learned that there is a lot more to him.  I actually like his personality after becoming more familiar with his values.  But I still don’t think he belongs in the HOF. He might be washed now.  However, if he somehow defies the odds and gets us a Lombardi, I reserve the right to change my mind. 

I have always pretty much put Rivers on the same level as Ben and Eli who all came out in the same draft. Difference is Ben and Eli have won 2 SB's, that is really the only difference. Winning a SB is a team accomplishment though and when Ben and Eli won their SB's they had superior defenses. Had Rivers played for the Steelers his whole career I think he would've won at least 1 SB. Rivers has never been as good as Peyton or Brady but he has always been right below that IMO.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have always pretty much put Rivers on the same level as Ben and Eli who all came out in the same draft. Difference is Ben and Eli have won 2 SB's, that is really the only difference. Winning a SB is a team accomplishment though and when Ben and Eli won their SB's they had superior defenses. Had Rivers played for the Steelers his whole career I think he would've won at least 1 SB. Rivers has never been as good as Peyton or Brady but he has always been right below that IMO.

By the eye test if I had to choose between Ben, Eli, and Rivers during their career's, I would choose Ben but barely over those guys. Having said that Ben wasn't on Peyton's or Brady's level either. Rodgers is really the only QB where he could say he has been on Peyton's and Brady's level over the last 20 years, not even Brees has IMO. Brees has never won a MVP. Mahomes is looking great right now though. I am surprised Rodgers hasn't won 2 SB's by now. It seems like winning that 2nd one is really tough for almost every QB that has played with the exception of Brady, Montana, and Bradshaw. Aikman won 3.

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

PS....    and I explained.   You don’t seem to want to accept it.   Your choice. 

I’m sorry you did not acknowledge let alone explain why you stated your opinion as a fact while complaining about him doing the same.  
 

I perfectly understand your displeasure and stance in your long winded explanations of why HE was wrong for it.  I’m not sure what you want me to accept?  That you are the pot calling the kettle black?   Sure.  I accept it.  Moving on dude.  

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1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I’m sorry you did not acknowledge let alone explain why you stated your opinion as a fact while complaining about him doing the same.  
 

I perfectly understand your displeasure and stance in your long winded explanations of why HE was wrong for it.  I’m not sure what you want me to accept?  That you are the pot calling the kettle black?   Sure.  I accept it.  Moving on dude.  

 

OK....

 

I'll try again and try not to be so long winded...

 

The poster stated as fact that Luck threw interceptions because he didn't spend enough time preparing and wasn't dedicated.   The poster offered no proof.     When I challenged him and asked for proof, the response was all about Luck's retirement and how Luck dealt with his injuries.     There was no link to anything that addressed the original claim,  that Luck wasn't dedicated or didn't prepare enough.    There was still nothing to support the position even when asked for it.

 

So, where does that come from?   I looked at your profile,  you've been a member since 2014 though you haven't posted much.    So, I don't know you or your viewpoints.    But if you've been reading the boards here,  Luck went from most popular player to most HATED player when he surprisingly retired.    The poster and many others simply don't feel the same way about him as they once did.    When you're asked for any supporting evidence for a position and can offer none except incidents that have nothing to do with the original claim,  that's simply misplaced anger and frustration.      I'm not a shrink,  but you don't have to be one to see it a mile away. 

 

A good number of people here like posting opinion without facts.   It's something I've observed in the 8 years I've been a member, and have written about it extensively.  This is not a new issue.    The poster is * at Luck.   And he's drawing false conclusions based on something else entirely different.

 

You can choose to agree or not.    Up to you.

 

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6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK....

 

I'll try again and try not to be so long winded...

 

The poster stated as fact that Luck threw interceptions because he didn't spend enough time preparing and wasn't dedicated.   The poster offered no proof.     When I challenged him and asked for proof, the response was all about Luck's retirement and how Luck dealt with his injuries.     There was no link to anything that addressed the original claim,  that Luck wasn't dedicated or didn't prepare enough.    There was still nothing to support the position even when asked for it.

 

So, where does that come from?   I looked at your profile,  you've been a member since 2014 though you haven't posted much.    So, I don't know you or your viewpoints.    But if you've been reading the boards here,  Luck went from most popular player to most HATED player when he surprisingly retired.    The poster and many others simply don't feel the same way about him as they once did.    When you're asked for any supporting evidence for a position and can offer none except incidents that have nothing to do with the original claim,  that's simply misplaced anger and frustration.      I'm not a shrink,  but you don't have to be one to see it a mile away. 

 

A good number of people here like posting opinion without facts.   It's something I've observed in the 8 years I've been a member, and have written about it extensively.  This is not a new issue.    The poster is * at Luck.   And he's drawing false conclusions based on something else entirely different.

 

You can choose to agree or not.    Up to you.

 

Read the first question I asked you in the very beginning. You keep trying to explain why that guy is wrong. I don’t care bc I agree with you.  Explain why you can post your opinion as a fact about that poster.  You did it in your rant.  Go back to the beginning and answer the question I asked or move on.  It’s like talking to a brick wall that just wants to repeat themselves so they are “right”.  

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3 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Read the first question I asked you in the very beginning. You keep trying to explain why that guy is wrong. I don’t care bc I agree with you.  Explain why you can post your opinion as a fact about that poster.  You did it in your rant.  Go back to the beginning and answer the question I asked or move on.  It’s like talking to a brick wall that just wants to repeat themselves so they are “right”.  

 

I explained how I reached my view of the poster.    It has far more facts and logic than the posts I've been dealing with.

 

Your choice not to accept what I've written.    I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.   And my instincts tell me you and I will be agreeing to disagree a lot here,  so we both better get used to it.

 

Enjoy the website.    Good luck to you.

 

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3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I explained how I reached my view of the poster.    It has far more facts and logic than the posts I've been dealing with.

 

Your choice not to accept what I've written.    I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.   And my instincts tell me you and I will be agreeing to disagree a lot here,  so we both better get used to it.

 

Enjoy the website.    Good luck to you.

 


No you didn’t.  Let me explain something to you.  I have been on here since 2014 and probably read topics 6-7 days a week.  Nope I don’t post much bc attitudes like you are displaying right now.  You straight have been caught being a hypocrite and can’t even admit it.  Your post are full of your opinions that I do enjoy reading bc I like all angles.  However, these kicks you get on when you want to put people in their place bc you don’t like it are annoying.  You are not that important and neither am I. I would say learn some tact and pick your battles but you won’t. You are who you are but be prepared to get called out when you don’t practice what you preach.  I am done discussing this with you. I look forward to reading what you have to say on other topics. 

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3 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:


No you didn’t.  Let me explain something to you.  I have been on here since 2014 and probably read topics 6-7 days a week.  Nope I don’t post much bc attitudes like you are displaying right now.  You straight have been caught being a hypocrite and can’t even admit it.  Your post are full of your opinions that I do enjoy reading bc I like all angles.  However, these kicks you get on when you want to put people in their place bc you don’t like it are annoying.  You are not that important and neither am I. I would say learn some tact and pick your battles but you won’t. You are who you are but be prepared to get called out when you don’t practice what you preach.  I am done discussing this with you. I look forward to reading what you have to say on other topics. 

 

Imagine my surprise at what you wrote.

 

I look forward to you disagreeing with me in the future.    As I correctly predicted,  you're not going to agree with me.    I'm sure that will happen quite often.  

 

Wash.   Rinse.    Repeat.

 

You're free to call me out whenever you want.   Whether I choose to respond or not is my call.

 

Good luck to you....

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On 6/22/2020 at 11:08 PM, Calmack said:

Rivers shouldn't sniff the hall imo. No super bowl appearances, no MVPs, no all-pros, and never maintained top 5 QB status for more than a year or two. There were always QBs better than him (and more successful) during his prime that I don't think simply playing long enough to rack up the stats merits HoF consideration. 

I respectfully disagree with you, and will even go as far as to say you are factually incorrect.

 

Rivers should have won MVP in 2008 (he didn't even make the pro bowl...one of the biggest snubs of all time), and he was arguably the best QB in the league from 2008 to 2010.  He has been a top 5 QB numerous seasons.

 

He is definitely going in the HOF, and he's very deserving.  One of the most underrated QBs in the modern era, honestly.  Never got the spotlight or hardware because of the franchise he played for.  The Chargers' Super Bowl window was from 2006 to 2008, but they never capitalized due to crucial fumbles, missed FGs, and injuries in the playoffs.  Since then, Rivers has not had a team around him capable of winning a SB (bad OL, bad running game, bad defense, and bad coaches).

 

Peyton is on the Mount Rushmore of NFL QBs, so I won't compare Rivers to him, and certainly not on a Colts board.  But I will argue that Rivers is as good or better than Luck - both prime and overall career.

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3 hours ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

I respectfully disagree with you, and will even go as far as to say you are factually incorrect.

 

Rivers should have won MVP in 2008 (he didn't even make the pro bowl...one of the biggest snubs of all time), and he was arguably the best QB in the league from 2008 to 2010.  He has been a top 5 QB numerous seasons.

 

He is definitely going in the HOF, and he's very deserving.  One of the most underrated QBs in the modern era, honestly.  Never got the spotlight or hardware because of the franchise he played for.  The Chargers' Super Bowl window was from 2006 to 2008, but they never capitalized due to crucial fumbles, missed FGs, and injuries in the playoffs.  Since then, Rivers has not had a team around him capable of winning a SB (bad OL, bad running game, bad defense, and bad coaches).

 

Peyton is on the Mount Rushmore of NFL QBs, so I won't compare Rivers to him, and certainly not on a Colts board.  But I will argue that Rivers is as good or better than Luck - both prime and overall career.

i disagree with all of that.  

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On 6/22/2020 at 11:08 PM, Calmack said:

Rivers shouldn't sniff the hall imo. No super bowl appearances, no MVPs, no all-pros, and never maintained top 5 QB status for more than a year or two. There were always QBs better than him (and more successful) during his prime that I don't think simply playing long enough to rack up the stats merits HoF consideration. 

 

On 6/23/2020 at 10:21 AM, Myles said:

I am in complete agreement with you.  

I think he will get into the HOF because they are not very strict in their selections.

I don't think he should be in it though.   He was never a top 4 QB in any of his seasons.   Maybe not top 5.   I think a Hall of Famer should have been one of the top 3 at their position for at least a couple years.   

To you both... A quick scan of PBs below. You can disagree with PB selection or whatever, but all players had the same opportunity. Notice the top 3 were ALL playing (and 2 are still playing) during his span. The top 2 were AFC guys.

 

Manning x14

Brady x14

Brees x13

Favre x11

Unitas x10

Marino x9

Moon x9

Tarkenton x9

Elway x9

 

So only 9 QBs have more PBs. I'd also say that growing up with Manning, Brady, and Brees (the top 3) certainly had an impact on his stats position and awards. And not getting a PB in 2008 when he led the league in TDs and passer rating was criminal.  Wouldn't be shocked to see him get one this year, and be tied for 5th all time.

 

Shouldn't sniff? Come on man. He's 6th right now in career yards, and will more than likely be 5th by end of year. He's the same on career passing TDs, and will be 5th after this year with only 23 TDs IIRC. He's top 10 career passer rating, sitting right behind Peyton. If you look at career stats, he's top 10 in most categories from yards to TDs to Passer Rating, and even in AVGs like ANY/A, which is an incredibly important indicator/stat.

 

Never a top 4 in any season, Wut? What's your criteria? If you just want to look at yards, he was top 4 in 2019, 2017, 2015, 2010, and was 5th an additional three years. And as I said above, will likely be 5th all time by end of year.

 

On 6/23/2020 at 9:31 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I disagree. He has thrown for nearly 60,000 yards and will pass that mark this season. He has started in 224 straight games, and by the way he has made the Pro Bowl 8 times. It is kind of hard to be an all-pro when you have had Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in the same conference as you during your prime years. Same for winning an MVP, Drew Brees has never won MVP either because of Brady and Manning and now Mahomes.

Yup. It's a lot to do with timing. Going through you're career with 3 of the top guys ever (in a lot of stats) is pretty challenging. Rivers is far from GOAT, but saying things like he shouldn't sniff the hall, is way harsh given his numbers. Heck, I've never been a fan of his until now, but always recognized his standing. It's pretty hard not to give a nod when someone is in the career top 10 in multiple stat/award areas.

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Sorry to take this a little off topic, but a HOF discussion seems to have been started here.

 

This upcoming season, Rivers will most likely move into 5th place all time in both passing TDs and passing yards.  For those saying he isn't a HOFer, take that ranking into perspective across the NFL as well as other American sports.

NFL:
5th most rushing TDs - Walter Payton

5th most rushing yards - Adrian Peterson

5th most receiving TDs - Marvin Harrison

5th most receiving yards - Isaac Bruce

 

NBA:

5th most points scored - Michael Jordan

5th most rebounds - Moses Malone

5th most assists - Magic Johnson

 

MLB:

5th most HRs - Willie Mays

5th highest batting average - Ed Delahanty

5th most strikeouts - Bert Blyleven

 

 

All of the above players are in their sport's respective HOF, without any arguments.  The only exception is Adrian Peterson, because he is not eligible yet.

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