Rivers vs Luck

[AustexColt]

After watching 4-5 2018 games of Rivers and 4-5 games of Luck, I think Rivers has a quicker release and read. Part of this is due to the offensive line and his decision process. Luck holds on to the ball longer because he can. Luck had a better OL and he can take hits and run with the ball.

 

When I look at Frank's overall game plan, I think Rivers is better match.  Short quick passes and gashing runs with his RPO. Rivers can throw downfield and when he does his releases are quicker, however his accuracy is not as good as Luck's.  Rivers definitely makes his receivers fight for the catch. 

[NewColtsFan]

40 minutes ago, AustexColt said:

After watching 4-5 2018 games of Rivers and 4-5 games of Luck, I think Rivers has a quicker release and read. Part of this is due to the offensive line and his decision process. Luck holds on to the ball longer because he can. Luck had a better OL and he can take hits and run with the ball.

 

When I look at Frank's overall game plan, I think Rivers is better match.  Short quick passes and gashing runs with his RPO. Rivers can throw downfield and when he does his releases are quicker, however his accuracy is not as good as Luck's.  Rivers definitely makes his receivers fight for the catch. 

RPO stands of Run Pass Option.  And one of the options is for the QB to run.   But with Rivers, far more times than not, him running the ball instead of passing or handing off is simply not an option.   We are rarely going to have Rivers run the ball himself except maybe a QB sneak. 
 

So I don’t see Rivers as a “better fit” in Reich's offense.   Put another way, who do you think Reich would pick at the height of their careers?   I think it’s Luck and I don’t think it’s close. 

[AwesomeAustin]

25 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

RPO stands of Run Pass Option.  And one of the options is for the QB to run.   But with Rivers, far more times than not, him running the ball instead of passing or handing off is simply not an option.   We are rarely going to have Rivers run the ball himself except maybe a QB sneak. 
 

So I don’t see Rivers as a “better fit” in Reich's offense.   Put another way, who do you think Reich would pick at the height of their careers?   I think it’s Luck and I don’t think it’s close. 

Knowing all information he would take Rivers bc Luck retired. Honestly, neither of them have lived up to their potential so it’s kind of a terrible debate. It’s like comparing a Ford Ranger and Chevy S-10.  Both have a lot of positives but still leave you wishing you had more. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

In their primes I would take Luck because he can run if he had too, like 2014 Luck for example. Rivers is probably a HOFamer though because he has the longevity and durability to back that up. Rivers all-time stats will probably get him into the Hall + he is 123-101 as a starter so he's won a lot of games.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Honesty can't say I've intently watched rivers every play in every game over the years.

But I would say he's better at pre snap reads which of course helps him being better at quick post snap reads. One of the reasons Luck held ball long was his lack of pre snap/quick post snap reads compared to the more dedicated and more prepared qb's.

 

And of course there's the Availability Factor, Rivers has NEVER missed a game due to injury while Luck was injury prone and then Retired roughly a decade before other QB's putting the Franchise in a bind.

[luvdacolts67]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

RPO stands of Run Pass Option.  And one of the options is for the QB to run.   But with Rivers, far more times than not, him running the ball instead of passing or handing off is simply not an option.   We are rarely going to have Rivers run the ball himself except maybe a QB sneak. 
 

So I don’t see Rivers as a “better fit” in Reich's offense.   Put another way, who do you think Reich would pick at the height of their careers?   I think it’s Luck and I don’t think it’s close. 

I’m sure he would take Luck but I would rather have Rivers.  Rivers didn’t quit, also I think with our run game and OL, he will fit in fine.  Don’t forget Peyton couldn’t run either.  Peyton > Luck by far so why not Rivers?

[RollerColt]

20 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Honesty can't say I've intently watched rivers every play in every game over the years.

But I would say he's better at pre snap reads which of course helps him being better at quick post snap reads. One of the reasons Luck held ball long was his lack of pre snap/quick post snap reads compared to the more dedicated and more prepared qb's.

 

And of course there's the Availability Factor, Rivers has NEVER missed a game due to injury while Luck was injury prone and then Retired roughly a decade before other QB's putting the Franchise in a bind.

I think it was more of the play designs that made Luck hold the ball. Plays were more drawn out, so he had to wait for receivers to run their routes. The old staff felt he would be like Big Ben and hop around the pocket to buy time. But the line was so bad he often couldn’t wait so he’d scramble and then either throw on the run or try to pick up yards and get killed. 
 

Air Coryal... It’s not kind to the QB’s body.

[NewColtsFan]

39 minutes ago, luvdacolts67 said:

I’m sure he would take Luck but I would rather have Rivers.  Rivers didn’t quit, also I think with our run game and OL, he will fit in fine.  Don’t forget Peyton couldn’t run either.  Peyton > Luck by far so why not Rivers?

 

Everyone here knows I'm a Luck fan.   It was clear the day I arrived in May of 2012.   And I made it very clear that Andrew Luck was never EVER going to be as good as Peyton Manning.  And that he didn't have to be for the Colts to be good and even win a Super Bowl with Luck as the QB.  

 

But just because Manning and Rivers are similar in size and playing style and lack of athletic ability doesn't mean that Rivers is as good as Manning (he's not) or that Rivers is better than Luck (he's not, IMO.)      Of course, your mileage may vary....

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Honesty can't say I've intently watched rivers every play in every game over the years.

But I would say he's better at pre snap reads which of course helps him being better at quick post snap reads. One of the reasons Luck held ball long was his lack of pre snap/quick post snap reads compared to the more dedicated and more prepared qb's.

 

And of course there's the Availability Factor, Rivers has NEVER missed a game due to injury while Luck was injury prone and then Retired roughly a decade before other QB's putting the Franchise in a bind.

 

Everyone good with this?     Anyone have any objection to this?    I think it will be interesting to see who supports the poster's position.

 

My objection with the viewpoint is that I think the poster has conflated several issues.  Luck's willingness to walk away from his career while he had many potential years left,   with the unfounded idea that Luck was not dedicated to his career or prepared during his career.

 

I don't mind anyone having a different opinion from me,  all I've ever asked is to have some facts to back up your opinion.    And I'm sorry,  but there's no evidence, that Luck wasn't prepared or dedicated.    There are no stories.    It's never been discussed here until his retirement when all Hell broke loose.    There are no stories about the Owner, or the GM or a coaching or teammates saying Luck wasn't dedicated or prepared.    If there is,  I'm unaware of it,  so please feel free to link.

 

Otherwise, to me,  this is opinion without facts to back it up.    Is the poster entitled to his opinion?    Of course he is.    I just want to see who here supports this,  and can anyone prove this view is correct?    I look forward to seeing what gets posted....

 

[Calmack]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

In their primes I would take Luck because he can run if he had too, like 2014 Luck for example. Rivers is probably a HOFamer though because he has the longevity and durability to back that up. Rivers all-time stats will probably get him into the Hall + he is 123-101 as a starter so he's won a lot of games.

Rivers shouldn't sniff the hall imo. No super bowl appearances, no MVPs, no all-pros, and never maintained top 5 QB status for more than a year or two. There were always QBs better than him (and more successful) during his prime that I don't think simply playing long enough to rack up the stats merits HoF consideration. 

[ProblChld32]

5 hours ago, AustexColt said:

After watching 4-5 2018 games of Rivers and 4-5 games of Luck, I think Rivers has a quicker release and read. Part of this is due to the offensive line and his decision process. Luck holds on to the ball longer because he can. Luck had a better OL and he can take hits and run with the ball.

 

When I look at Frank's overall game plan, I think Rivers is better match.  Short quick passes and gashing runs with his RPO. Rivers can throw downfield and when he does his releases are quicker, however his accuracy is not as good as Luck's.  Rivers definitely makes his receivers fight for the catch. 

When did Luck have a better line? Lol him not having an O-Line is part of the reason he was often injured and ultimately retired.

[luvdacolts67]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Everyone here knows I'm a Luck fan.   It was clear the day I arrived in May of 2012.   And I made it very clear that Andrew Luck was never EVER going to be as good as Peyton Manning.  And that he didn't have to be for the Colts to be good and even win a Super Bowl with Luck as the QB.  

 

But just because Manning and Rivers are similar in size and playing style and lack of athletic ability doesn't mean that Rivers is as good as Manning (he's not) or that Rivers is better than Luck (he's not, IMO.)      Of course, your mileage may vary....

 

I would agree with most of what you say the problem is I don’t like Andrew luck I don’t like what he did to this team waiting until the last minute to quit.  It just doesn’t sit well with me and I personally would never want to see him play for the Colts just my opinion.

[Jackie Daytona]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Everyone good with this?     Anyone have any objection to this?    I think it will be interesting to see who supports the poster's position.

 

Who cares?  I feel you've conflated a simple opinion with a serious issue...... It's no big deal, I disagree with the post you are referring to in about every facet.....  but your post reads like an indictment, and makes you seem like an *,.... this happens on here a lot, maybe the lack of inflection is making you the victim of an illusion here.  I dunno.

 

Specifically when you start polling posters over the cheeky "everyone good with this?" bit.....  sounds like the guy at the party who needs his * kicked when you come at people like that....  You also post good takes, solid facts, interesting opinions...  Why the *y angles so often?

 

[crazycolt1]

It sure has been a very long off season.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Everyone good with this?     Anyone have any objection to this?    I think it will be interesting to see who supports the poster's position.

 

My objection with the viewpoint is that I think the poster has conflated several issues.  Luck's willingness to walk away from his career while he had many potential years left,   with the unfounded idea that Luck was not dedicated to his career or prepared during his career.

 

I don't mind anyone having a different opinion from me,  all I've ever asked is to have some facts to back up your opinion.    And I'm sorry,  but there's no evidence, that Luck wasn't prepared or dedicated.    There are no stories.    It's never been discussed here until his retirement when all Hell broke loose.    There are no stories about the Owner, or the GM or a coaching or teammates saying Luck wasn't dedicated or prepared.    If there is,  I'm unaware of it,  so please feel free to link.

 

Otherwise, to me,  this is opinion without facts to back it up.    Is the poster entitled to his opinion?    Of course he is.    I just want to see who here supports this,  and can anyone prove this view is correct?    I look forward to seeing what gets posted.

 

 

Like you said most of us knew luck would not be another Peyton, how many are? So its not fair to luck to be compared to him. However, we didn't see/hear luck put the extra time with his receivers. We all know how manning did. We also never heard luck lived in the film room.. We all heard luck had a photographic memory and was very smart yet he didn't call many audibles, and take charge of the O like some of the greats. 

 

He didn't seem as obsessed or hungered for multiple SB's like the greats. Some of us knew/sensed he could walk away early. It was rumored in fact he wouldnt come back from his  year of absence. I think Colin cowherd was just one  of several who said it. EVEN YOU my friend, said something like "Luck walks to the beat of a different drum". Do you recall? ....  There were other posters here that said he may walk away early. Irsay, as we all remember, remarked on his delay in coming back that it was between his ears.

 

I wasn't surprised, in fact I told people that he could retire early. But I didn't think he would as early as he did, before his contract was up. And certainly not a week before the season started,Quitting on Fans, organization and coaches, and teammates.

 

I guess you missed it if it wasn't written on PFF or your other favourite sites. Sometimes you have to look at things with your own eyes and see things for yourself and your very own opinion instead of just relying on websites.

 

 

But having said what I said I sure wish we had him instead of rivers AND not praying/relying so much for Eason to be our next great qb. 

 

 

 

 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

3 hours ago, RollerColt said:

I think it was more of the play designs that made Luck hold the ball. Plays were more drawn out, so he had to wait for receivers to run their routes. The old staff felt he would be like Big Ben and hop around the pocket to buy time. But the line was so bad he often couldn’t wait so he’d scramble and then either throw on the run or try to pick up yards and get killed. 
 

Air Coryal... It’s not kind to the QB’s body.

 

I agree the offense with Bruce Arian's was not a good choice with our OL at the time and a rookie qb. There were plenty here glad Arizona hired him away fearing he would get luck killed. Funny thing, the offense was supposed to have changed with Pep but didn't seem to change much lol.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Like you said most of us knew luck would not be another Peyton, how many are? So its not fair to luck to be compared to him. However, we didn't see/hear luck put the extra time with his receivers. We all know how manning did. We also never heard luck lived in the film room.. We all heard luck had a photographic memory and was very smart yet he didn't call many audibles, and take charge of the O like some of the greats. 

 

He didn't seem as obsessed or hungered for multiple SB's like the greats. Some of us knew/sensed he could walk away early. It was rumored in fact he wouldnt come back from his  year of absence. I think Colin cowherd was just one  of several who said it. EVEN YOU my friend, said something like "Luck walks to the beat of a different drum". Do you recall? ....  There were other posters here that said he may walk away early. Irsay, as we all remember, remarked on his delay in coming back that it was between his ears.

 

I wasn't surprised, in fact I told people that he could retire early. But I didn't think he would as early as he did, before his contract was up. And certainly not a week before the season started,Quitting on Fans, organization and coaches, and teammates.

 

I guess you missed it if it wasn't written on PFF or your other favourite sites. Sometimes you have to look at things with your own eyes and see things for yourself and your very own opinion instead of just relying on websites.

 

 

But having said what I said I sure wish we had him instead of rivers AND not praying/relying so much for Eason to be our next great qb. 

 

 

Actually,  when I arrived here many didn't know what Luck would turn out to be.   I had to tell lots of people that Luck was never going to be as good as Peyton.

 

That said...    I appreciate your response.    You didn't make it personal, as I tried not to with my post.    I said I disagreed with you and tried to explain why.    I was curious who would support your view and who wouldn't.

 

But the thing of it is...   you still don't have any evidence that Luck was dedicated enough or prepared enough.    All you've done is say that because there weren't stories saying that Luck was as fanatical as Peyton,  you've taken your anger over him retiring early and enterpreted all that to mean Luck didn't work hard enough.    But all the things you listed were issues surrounding his injury and his retirement.    None of that says he wasns't as dedicated enough or prepared enough.    You've also taken the commonly tossed around view that Luck didn't audible much as gospel,  even though there's nothing to support it.  Frankly,  I don't think most here would have the first clue as to how much Luck audibled or not.   And since he has a photographic memory,  he certainly had the ability to.   So, if it turns out he didn't,  maybe the coaching staff didn't give him the green light.   And since that is highly unlikely I submit Luck audibled as much as anyone else,  but all of here -- me included -- simply have no idea.   I simply have no reason to think the negative in the absense of proof.    And there is none,  which is my point.

 

Say what you will about the links that I prefer,  but I asked for ANY links and no one has come forth yet.   The Indy Star, or other local source?    Any writer from NFL.com?    Any writer from ESPN.com?     Frankly, PFF is stat driven so I seriously doubt they'd know.     I just think if Luck was dedicated or prepared,  THAT would have leaked out.    Never did.

 

By the way,  quoting me with "Luck marches to the beat of his own drummer" isn't proof of anything.   He does.   He has lots of likes outside football.   But none of that proves your point.    One can be less dedicated than Manning and still work plenty hard to try and get the most out of himself.

 

Anyway,  thanks again...    I may not agree with your posts here,  but I appreciate your response.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

Who cares?  I feel you've conflated a simple opinion with a serious issue...... It's no big deal, I disagree with the post you are referring to in about every facet.....  but your post reads like an indictment, and makes you seem like an *,.... this happens on here a lot, maybe the lack of inflection is making you the victim of an illusion here.  I dunno.

 

Specifically when you start polling posters over the cheeky "everyone good with this?" bit.....  sounds like the guy at the party who needs his * kicked when you come at people like that....  You also post good takes, solid facts, interesting opinions...  Why the *y angles so often?

 

 

I don't know if you've noticed,  but your last 3-4 maybe even 5 posts directed at me have taken a much more personal tone.   For the most part,  I've tried to ignore you.   And yet,  you continue with the same approach.    You're not a fan of me,  or my posting style.   That's your right.    Just as it's my right to try and ignore you.   

 

I don't know if you noticed,  but I didn't say anything negative about the poster whose view I disagreed with.    I just simply said I didn't agree and would be curious who would agree with him, and who wouldn't.

 

Because it's been an on-going issue for me for 8 years that I've been here.   People value opinion over facts.    People take false views posted here and accept them as conventional  wisdom,  without realizing that they're false and there's not enough fact to support the viewpoint.    Perhaps that's common on every fan message board,  but it's true here.   And I've written about it for 8 years,  so this is not somehting I'm just bringing up for the first time.

 

But the Poster I responded to didn't appear to take any offense.   I didn't say a single nevative word about him.   And he responded with class.    He gave me his reasons for his viewpoint.    I appreciated that.    And told him so.    The person bothered most by my post....  is you.    As it's been for a while now.     So, fire away.   Take your shots at me.    I think you'll find I really don't care about your view. 

 

Good luck to you.....

 

[shakedownstreet]

10 hours ago, AustexColt said:

Rivers vs Luck

 

CAGEMATCH!

TONIGHT AT 8 ON FOX

[AwesomeAustin]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Actually,  when I arrived here many didn't know what Luck would turn out to be.   I had to tell lots of people that Luck was never going to be as good as Peyton.

 

That said...    I appreciate your response.    You didn't make it personal, as I tried not to with my post.    I said I disagreed with you and tried to explain why.    I was curious who would support your view and who wouldn't.

 

But the thing of it is...   you still don't have any evidence that Luck was dedicated enough or prepared enough.    All you've done is say that because there weren't stories saying that Luck was as fanatical as Peyton,  you've taken your anger over him retiring early and enterpreted all that to mean Luck didn't work hard enough.    But all the things you listed were issues surrounding his injury and his retirement.    None of that says he wasns't as dedicated enough or prepared enough.    You've also taken the commonly tossed around view that Luck didn't audible much as gospel,  even though there's nothing to support it.  Frankly,  I don't think most here would have the first clue as to how much Luck audibled or not.   And since he has a photographic memory,  he certainly had the ability to.   So, if it turns out he didn't,  maybe the coaching staff didn't give him the green light.   And since that is highly unlikely I submit Luck audibled as much as anyone else,  but all of here -- me included -- simply have no idea.   I simply have no reason to think the negative in the absense of proof.    And there is none,  which is my point.

 

Say what you will about the links that I prefer,  but I asked for ANY links and no one has come forth yet.   The Indy Star, or other local source?    Any writer from NFL.com?    Any writer from ESPN.com?     Frankly, PFF is stat driven so I seriously doubt they'd know.     I just think if Luck was dedicated or prepared,  THAT would have leaked out.    Never did.

 

By the way,  quoting me with "Luck marches to the beat of his own drummer" isn't proof of anything.   He does.   He has lots of likes outside football.   But none of that proves your point.    One can be less dedicated than Manning and still work plenty hard to try and get the most out of himself.

 

Anyway,  thanks again...    I may not agree with your posts here,  but I appreciate your response.

Can you post any facts or proof that his anger of Luck retiring is why he is stated that?  He formed an educated guess by his own experiences and interpretations.  Just like you did about him. I get what you are saying, it is annoying how people project their opinion as fact. However, take things with a grain of salt bc 90% of everything posted here is opinion and that should be understood. Going with a “prove it” defense on a message board can come across argumentative bc we really can’t prove anything. 

[07dleigh]

Let me just say this, and this is what made the Luck ordeal hurt even more; 2018 convinced me that we hadn't even seen the best of him. I don't know exactly how the numbers compare to earlier in his career (I think completion was highest, not sure about everything else) but eye-test wise, that stretch where he was comfortable again was the best I've ever seen him play. His pocket presence was breathtaking at times. He was consistently stepping up and spinning out RIGHT on cue, without even looking. It all looked so easy. So we're comparing finished product Rivers to Luck who imo hadn't even peaked.

 

I'm sorry, the wound has healed, just wanted to reminisce real quick haha.

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 hours ago, Calmack said:

Rivers shouldn't sniff the hall imo. No super bowl appearances, no MVPs, no all-pros, and never maintained top 5 QB status for more than a year or two. There were always QBs better than him (and more successful) during his prime that I don't think simply playing long enough to rack up the stats merits HoF consideration. 

I disagree. He has thrown for nearly 60,000 yards and will pass that mark this season. He has started in 224 straight games, and by the way he has made the Pro Bowl 8 times. It is kind of hard to be an all-pro when you have had Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in the same conference as you during your prime years. Same for winning an MVP, Drew Brees has never won MVP either because of Brady and Manning and now Mahomes.

[Myles]

11 hours ago, Calmack said:

Rivers shouldn't sniff the hall imo. No super bowl appearances, no MVPs, no all-pros, and never maintained top 5 QB status for more than a year or two. There were always QBs better than him (and more successful) during his prime that I don't think simply playing long enough to rack up the stats merits HoF consideration. 

I am in complete agreement with you.  

I think he will get into the HOF because they are not very strict in their selections.

I don't think he should be in it though.   He was never a top 4 QB in any of his seasons.   Maybe not top 5.   I think a Hall of Famer should have been one of the top 3 at their position for at least a couple years.   

[RollerColt]

8 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I agree the offense with Bruce Arian's was not a good choice with our OL at the time and a rookie qb. There were plenty here glad Arizona hired him away fearing he would get luck killed. Funny thing, the offense was supposed to have changed with Pep but didn't seem to change much lol.

Didn’t change even after Pep left either sadly. Reich was the first to finally change the script but it was far too late. 

[AwesomeAustin]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I disagree. He has thrown for nearly 60,000 yards and will pass that mark this season. He has started in 224 straight games, and by the way he has made the Pro Bowl 8 times. It is kind of hard to be an all-pro when you have had Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in the same conference as you during your prime years. Same for winning an MVP, Drew Brees has never won MVP either because of Brady and Manning and now Mahomes.

I totally agree with you.  Pro Bowl nominations can be Misleading bc several guys make it as alternates. I saw an article that stated he was the 4th alternate one year.  I value All-pro way more bc it shows who really had the best season at the position.  Rivers is the prime example for the argument stats are inflated and a product of his era.  Don’t get me wrong, he is a very good franchise QB you build your team around.  I’ve never thought of him as great but more above average 50% of his seasons. He is a modern day Boomer Esiason to me. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

23 minutes ago, Myles said:

I am in complete agreement with you.  

I think he will get into the HOF because they are not very strict in their selections.

I don't think he should be in it though.   He was never a top 4 QB in any of his seasons.   Maybe not top 5.   I think a Hall of Famer should have been one of the top 3 at their position for at least a couple years.   

Rivers led the league in passing yards in 2010 and TD passes in 2008. He led his team to a 14-2 record in 2006. He easily has an argument of being a top 3 or 4 QB in those seasons alone. People penalize him for never being the best QB but he was never going to be with Manning and Brady around. That is like saying John Stockton doesn't belong in the NBA Hall of Fame because he was never a top 5 player in the league when he played (maybe top 10) and he never won a Championship or an MVP. We all know Stockton deserved to make the Hall of Fame. I can make an argument his stats were inflated because he played 19 seasons but a part of making the Hall of Fame is longevity and durability. 

[runthepost]

Carr in my opinion was/is a better fit for this offense than Rivers

[jlid]

Ok, let's not get crazy here...I know we're in the height of optimism season (Taylor and Mack will rush for 1500 yards each, Pittman will catch 15 TD's, etc) and I know we're all supposed to hate Luck for leaving when he did, but come on...

 

Rivers will be fine, that's what he's always been, but his career stats are based on longevity and durability. I'm not saying that's not impressive, but at his best, he's about the level of average Andrew.  No Andrew wasn't Peyton but how spoiled does a fanbase have to be to think they're going to walk out and trip over another Peyton freaking Manning?

 

If Luck said he just wanted to come back for one more year and that was it, I'd dump Rivers in a heartbeat, let alone if he wanted to continue his career in full...and so would Reich and Ballard

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, runthepost said:

Carr in my opinion was/is a better fit for this offense than Rivers

He was mine too but mainly because he is 8 years younger than Rivers. Rivers was my 2nd choice.

[Fluke_33]

2 hours ago, 07dleigh said:

Let me just say this, and this is what made the Luck ordeal hurt even more; 2018 convinced me that we hadn't even seen the best of him. I don't know exactly how the numbers compare to earlier in his career (I think completion was highest, not sure about everything else) but eye-test wise, that stretch where he was comfortable again was the best I've ever seen him play. His pocket presence was breathtaking at times. He was consistently stepping up and spinning out RIGHT on cue, without even looking. It all looked so easy. So we're comparing finished product Rivers to Luck who imo hadn't even peaked.

 

I'm sorry, the wound has healed, just wanted to reminisce real quick haha.

That’s the most frustrating part.  I really think his best was yet to come and I think it was going to be last year.    (Maybe it will be next year. )

[stitches]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Everyone good with this?     Anyone have any objection to this?    I think it will be interesting to see who supports the poster's position.

 

 

I'm not. I've written about it before. It's possible it was @LJpalmbeacher2 that prompted my response in the past(I don't remember). I don't want to relitigate it all over again, especially for people who ignore what you've written and just keep plugging away. I'm just going to say this is complete and utter nonsense.

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

CAGEMATCH!

TONIGHT AT 8 ON FOX

my money is on the old man Rivers.  Luck would quit during the walk down to the cage

[Myles]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Rivers led the league in passing yards in 2010 and TD passes in 2008. He led his team to a 14-2 record in 2006. He easily has an argument of being a top 3 or 4 QB in those seasons alone. People penalize him for never being the best QB but he was never going to be with Manning and Brady around. That is like saying John Stockton doesn't belong in the NBA Hall of Fame because he was never a top 5 player in the league when he played (maybe top 10) and he never won a Championship or an MVP. We all know Stockton deserved to make the Hall of Fame. I can make an argument his stats were inflated because he played 19 seasons but a part of making the Hall of Fame is longevity and durability. 

Stockton was a top 3 PG for many years.

There isn't a correct choice here, just opinions.   My opinion is that I think the HOF needs to be more restrictive on their choices.   Comparing to the same position players of their era is the only fair way.   Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Rothlesburger, Luck, Romo and maybe even Ryan and others were better QB's in most years.    His longevity is impressive for sure, but for me it doesn't get him in the HOF.   I also wouldn't put Eli in and we know he'll be in as well.   

 

[Coffeedrinker]

19 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

RPO stands of Run Pass Option.  And one of the options is for the QB to run.   But with Rivers, far more times than not, him running the ball instead of passing or handing off is simply not an option.   We are rarely going to have Rivers run the ball himself except maybe a QB sneak. 
 

So I don’t see Rivers as a “better fit” in Reich's offense.   Put another way, who do you think Reich would pick at the height of their careers?   I think it’s Luck and I don’t think it’s close. 

I have to admit I do not know all the NFL terms for things.  But what you described NCF is a read option, where the QB reads a player and then either distributes the ball (typically a hand off) or runs with the ball.  The Read/Pass option is typically where the QB is reading a player in the back 7 and deciding whether to hand off the ball or pull it and throw.

 

I am sure there are as many variations of it as there are coaches in NFL, college, HS and youth football, so those are just generalizations of the term. 

 

I do agree, though, I don't think Reich is going to put Rivers in a situation where Rivers is going to chose to run the ball himself or pass it.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I have to admit I do not know all the NFL terms for things.  But what you described NCF is a read option, where the QB reads a player and then either distributes the ball (typically a hand off) or runs with the ball.  The Read/Pass option is typically where the QB is reading a player in the back 7 and deciding whether to hand off the ball or pull it and throw.

 

I am sure there are as many variations of it as there are coaches in NFL, college, HS and youth football, so those are just generalizations of the term. 

 

I do agree, though, I don't think Reich is going to put Rivers in a situation where Rivers is going to chose to run the ball himself or pass it.

 

That was my understanding as well. Proof is that nick Foles ran  rpo to help Philly win the SB but he's not athletic enough to be a viable threat running the ball. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Stockton was a top 3 PG for many years.

There isn't a correct choice here, just opinions.   My opinion is that I think the HOF needs to be more restrictive on their choices.   Comparing to the same position players of their era is the only fair way.   Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Rothlesburger, Luck, Romo and maybe even Ryan and others were better QB's in most years.    His longevity is impressive for sure, but for me it doesn't get him in the HOF.   I also wouldn't put Eli in and we know he'll be in as well.   

 

I respect your opinion but I think Eli belongs in just based off winning 2 SB's. It wasn't just only winning 2 SB's, he won MVP in both and beat the Patriots. Plus he played in 210 straight games without missing a start. I do believe the NFL should be more careful who they put in but those 2 belong IMO. I would say not 1st ballot but 2nd ballot is reasonable.

[FortheWin]

I thought this was a joke thread when I first read the OP. Luck is by far the better QB than Rivers especially now that Rivers is washed. In their primes, Luck was still light years better IMO.

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I respect your opinion but I think Eli belongs in just based off winning 2 SB's. It wasn't just only winning 2 SB's, he won MVP in both and beat the Patriots. Plus he played in 210 straight games without missing a start. I do believe the NFL should be more careful who they put in but those 2 belong IMO. I would say not 1st ballot but 2nd ballot is reasonable.

I will add to this, most people think Ben belongs in the Hall of Fame but what makes him so special compared to Rivers or Eli? Ben has never won a SB MVP or an MVP, Eli has 2 SB MVP's, and both have just as great of stats as Ben does. If Rivers won a SB it would be a no brainer that Rivers belongs.

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Can you post any facts or proof that his anger of Luck retiring is why he is stated that?  He formed an educated guess by his own experiences and interpretations.  Just like you did about him. I get what you are saying, it is annoying how people project their opinion as fact. However, take things with a grain of salt bc 90% of everything posted here is opinion and that should be understood. Going with a “prove it” defense on a message board can come across argumentative bc we really can’t prove anything. 

 

He has no facts that support that.    All of his examples surrounded Lucks injury or his early retirement.    And none of them supported the idea of a lack of dedication or commitment.

 

There are no stories linked.   No quotes.   Nothing reputable.    No story about Luck not doing enough work,  or not coming in early or always leaving early.     There's none of that.   The poster claimed Luck threw interceptions because he hadn't done enough film study to know what he was seeing.     And there's zero to support that.    Things can be proven if there are stories that support it.    So, the poster noted that Manning was legendary and fanatical about doing prep work.   And it's true.   Those stories are common across the NFL community.   But just because a player doesn't have those kind of stories written about them,  doesn't mean the player isn't decicated.    That's a leap way too far.    It's as if the argument is...   you're either as fanatical as Peyton Manning, or you're not dedicated enough.   There's no room in the middle.    And in most any argument,   most of the truth is going to be near the middle.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

I thought this was a joke thread when I first read the OP. Luck is by far the better QB than Rivers especially now that Rivers is washed. In their primes, Luck was still light years better IMO.

I wouldn't say at their peaks Luck was light years better but he was better. Luck never really had a peak in reality but I am talking 2014 and 2018 Luck where he really stood out. Of course now with Rivers being 38, Luck would be much better being 8 years younger. I think Rivers will still be good this year.