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47 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

IMO, there are pressures from both side. I have immediate family in the extreme risk category, so I'm very sensitive to the issue. That person is confined to home, contact with others is almost nil, and the very few in contact with them has modified their own behavior. That said, I think extremes on either side are the voices we hear most, and that's unfortunate.

 

Me personally, I'm more than fine with fan-less football. But at the end of the day, I think it should be a personal decision for players. If we just look at the players, I think most want to play. And if we're honest about the demographics of the players, less than 5% of deaths come from ages under 45, and less than 1% have no underlying conditions (those figures are from NY). So remove all the players with at risk conditions. And the average age of an NFL player is around 26 IIRC. Couldn't find more narrow breakdowns, but I have to assume that would lower the 5% and 1%.

 

Even if we say it's a full 1%, one would think that the NFL's measures (policy and testing) would reduce that 1% to a fraction of a %. Add in that because they are tested regularly, and will get top notch treatment earlier than most, it's reduced even more. We also know that those figures are based on known #s of cases, which we know now (due to the asymptomatic behavior in the young and healthy) is likely highly under reported.

 

So let's say in reality it's probably somewhere between 0.1% and 0.3% (we'll use the high). Let's say 5% (which would be about 100) of the players contract the disease during the year. If we apply the 0.3% to that, it's a third of a person dying maybe throughout the entire league.

 

In short, the risk to healthy players is very low. The risk to some unhealthy coaches is higher, but you can always keep those guys in the box. I'm for letting those that want to play, play. I'm guessing most would roll the dice on those odds to get their paycheck.

 

 

If a player refuses to play does he get paid at all?    I think the $$ will play a factor in the decisions.   If you are young and not making millions, you will want to play.   

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21 minutes ago, Myles said:

If a player refuses to play does he get paid at all?    I think the $$ will play a factor in the decisions.   If you are young and not making millions, you will want to play.   

No play, no pay. I'd have no problem with players deciding not to play, but they need to work for the pay. When you have high dollar guys like Brady and others out there already practicing, I'd venture to bet the big dollar guys want to play too. If a player has a risk factor, I'd be fine with the league giving them a flat sum or %.

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38 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

No play, no pay. I'd have no problem with players deciding not to play, but they need to work for the pay. When you have high dollar guys like Brady and others out there already practicing, I'd venture to bet the big dollar guys want to play too. If a player has a risk factor, I'd be fine with the league giving them a flat sum or %.

It'll be interesting.   If a player plans to play and gets the virus while with the team and can't play for 2 games, will he get paid?  He only contracted the virus through team functions, so he would have a case to file a grievance.  

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25 minutes ago, Myles said:

It'll be interesting.   If a player plans to play and gets the virus while with the team and can't play for 2 games, will he get paid?  He only contracted the virus through team functions, so he would have a case to file a grievance.  

Oh absolutely. If you get sick or injured while playing, definitely. I'm even OK with paying a guy who is sick before he shows up and misses time at the beginning.

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

...

In short, the risk to healthy players is very low. The risk to some unhealthy coaches is higher, but you can always keep those guys in the box. I'm for letting those that want to play, play. I'm guessing most would roll the dice on those odds to get their paycheck.

Andrew Brandt mentioned this in a podcast and I thought it was worth pointing out - for a lot of sports it's true that the risk for the players themselves is not high. Unfortunately football is one of the sports where some of the players might be under elevated risk(specifically the O-linemen and D-linemen). High BMI, sleep apnea, hypertension and heart conditions, high blood sugar/diabetes, etc. are somewhat common for the linemen in the NFL and they all seem to be among the conditions that exacerbate the risks for people infected with COVID-19.

 

I don't know how much of a consideration this would be. 

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

Andrew Brandt mentioned this in a podcast and I thought it was worth pointing out - for a lot of sports it's true that the risk for the players themselves is not high. Unfortunately football is one of the sports where some of the players might be under elevated risk(specifically the O-linemen and D-linemen). High BMI, sleep apnea, hypertension and heart conditions, etc. are somewhat common for the linemen in the NFL and they all seem to be among the conditions that exacerbate the risks for people infected with COVID-19.

 

I don't know how much of a consideration this would be. 

Let's break those down.

 

BMI - BMI is not a good measurement when looking at professional athletes due to much higher than normal muscle mass. Many players will be above 30 (the CDC threshold warning level) and be perfectly healthy. It's better to measure cholesterol and blood pressure than going off BMI. I'm sure there are a few low height, high weight guys though with high body fat that have bad cholesterol and/or BP #s though.

 

While I would assume sleep apnea might pose some risk, I don't think it's a CDC risk factor. COPD is, but that's not the same.

 

HBP is listed in the second tier as "might be a risk"

 

I do agree the NFL needs to look at all those factors. I'd screen every single player for heart conditions, cholesterol, and HPB. Not sure about the sleep apnea, but I'm guessing there are very few if any players with COPD. 

 

BTW, I read an article a while back about the trend of lower BMI in OL, due to the change in O schemes, especially with dual threat QBs. Let me know if you're interested and I'll try to find it.

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21 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Let's break those down.

 

BMI - BMI is not a good measurement when looking at professional athletes due to much higher than normal muscle mass. Many players will be above 30 (the CDC threshold warning level) and be perfectly healthy. It's better to measure cholesterol and blood pressure than going off BMI. I'm sure there are a few low height, high weight guys though with high body fat that have bad cholesterol and/or BP #s though.

 

While I would assume sleep apnea might pose some risk, I don't think it's a CDC risk factor. COPD is, but that's not the same.

 

HBP is listed in the second tier as "might be a risk"

 

I do agree the NFL needs to look at all those factors. I'd screen every single player for heart conditions, cholesterol, and HPB. Not sure about the sleep apnea, but I'm guessing there are very few if any players with COPD. 

 

BTW, I read an article a while back about the trend of lower BMI in OL, due to the change in O schemes, especially with dual threat QBs. Let me know if you're interested and I'll try to find it.

Yeah, high blood pressure and high levels of sugar in the blood/diabetes seem to be the big ones here. I wonder if the NFL will have some thresholds for those or would they just let the players decide if they want to play on their own. They have the resources to test everybody and give them somewhat personalized risk assessment, but I wonder if they would straight up tell some players they are not allowed to play. For example, Maurice Hurst had significant heart condition that dropped him in the draft. Is it possible they tell him he should sit it out? 

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14 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yeah, high blood pressure and high levels of sugar in the blood/diabetes seem to be the big ones here. I wonder if the NFL will have some thresholds for those or would they just let the players decide if they want to play on their own. They have the resources to test everybody and give them somewhat personalized risk assessment, but I wonder if they would straight up tell some players they are not allowed to play. For example, Maurice Hurst had significant heart condition that dropped him in the draft. Is it possible they tell him he should sit it out? 

Just my opinion, but I'd test absolutely everyone. I'd attach the results to their waiver form lol. I'd set some parameters. Let's call them "healthy", "borderline", and "way out of wack" lol... And let all those that are way out of wack sit it out.

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On 6/19/2020 at 8:28 PM, Dogg63 said:

That's not correct. I do work in the medical field, am HIPAA certified, and take yearly re certification training. 

 

HIPAA only applies to Covered Entities (and business associates of covered entities):

 

Covered Entities include:

*Health Plans, including health insurance companies, HMOs, company health plans, and certain government programs that pay for health care, such as Medicare and Medicaid.

*Most Health Care Providers—those that conduct certain business electronically, such as electronically billing your health insurance—including most doctors, clinics, hospitals, psychologists, chiropractors, nursing homes, pharmacies, and dentists.

*Health Care Clearinghouses—entities that process nonstandard health information they receive from another entity into a standard (i.e., standard electronic format or data content), or vice versa.

*In addition, business associates of covered entities must follow parts of the HIPAA regulations.

 

Often, contractors, subcontractors, and other outside persons and companies that are not employees of a covered entity will need to have access to your health information when providing services to the covered entity. We call these entities “business associates.” Examples of business associates include:

*Companies that help your doctors get paid for providing health care, including billing companies and companies that process your health care claims

*Companies that help administer health plans

*People like outside lawyers, accountants, and IT specialists

*Companies that store or destroy medical records

 

It does NOT apply to anyone who is not a covered entity (or business associate of a covered entity), for example:

*Life insurers

*Employers

*Workers compensation carriers

*Most schools and school districts

*Many state agencies like child protective service agencies

*Most law enforcement agencies

*Many municipal offices

 

Just having someone's health information does not make you liable for HIPAA violations. It all depends on your business relationship to a Covered Entity.

 

Hmmm.  So a school can disclose that one of its students has AIDS? or herpes?  Same for an employer?  If they find out by means other than their medical staff.

 

 See, I always thought that back when HIPAA was approved in the 90s it was to not let a paper trail get out that proved the rumor that Bill Clinton had herpes for political reasons, and they used the exaggerated notion of the then current AIDS stigma to push medical privacy through Congress.

 

I'm surprised that both a school, an employer, or a city office could tell the public that kind of information.  If  information is really that accessible, then I guess HIPAA is a gigantic Fake Issue that spawned a bureaucratic burden placed on the country just to protect a politician's sexual promiscuity...and his wife's opportunism.

 

But I think its more restrictive than you say.

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3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

they used the exaggerated notion of the AIDS stigma

seriously? Do you remember AIDS?

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This thread keeps going off track.  I've moved several posts into the coronavirus thread

 

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