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Robert Mathis ROH


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I am not sure who benefited from the other but I think it is a bit of both Freeney and Mathis benefiting by playing with each other, IMO. Well deserved recognition for Mathis!!

 

My regret was, we could have played more man coverage knowing there was only so long QBs could hold the ball, no matter what the score, with such potential HOF DEs. That would have led to games being changed better on the defensive side against better teams.

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8 minutes ago, Myles said:

Congrats Mathis.   Great player and great guy.  

I'd take him over Freeney if given the choice.  

He was definitely much better against the run than Freeney.

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4 minutes ago, w87r said:

He was definitely much better against the run than Freeney.

Yeah, that is most of my reasoning.  Freeney was great at what he did, but many times he needed Manning to set him up.   Manning would get the offense clicking early and teams would abandon their running game (which was great because the Colts run D wasn't great).   Freeney would then pin his ears back and away he went.      

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18 minutes ago, Myles said:

Congrats Mathis.   Great player and great guy.  

I'd take him over Freeney if given the choice.  

It is another topic but I would take Freeney over Mathis, barely but I would. I am glad to see Mathis get into the ring, pretty cool stuff. 

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1 minute ago, Myles said:

Yeah, that is most of my reasoning.  Freeney was great at what he did, but many times he needed Manning to set him up.   Manning would get the offense clicking early and teams would abandon their running game (which was great because the Colts run D wasn't great).   Freeney would then pin his ears back and away he went.      

I used to call Freeney the closer haha . If we had a lead, he would end the game.

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3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Does a sack also count as a tackle?

Just curious.  

 

I think it would depend on whether the QB wants to run or to pass, to differentiate an open field tackle based on QB's intentions.

 

If the QB tucks it and runs, and has no intention of passing, it is a tackle for loss. But if the QB decides to start his throwing motion, and gets hit and sacked, it is just a sack.

 

It is like an extension of the tackle for loss but varies based on QB's intention, I think. 

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7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not sure, I think it does. That is a good question haha . I have never thought of that one.

I just ask because Freeney had many seasons with so few tackles.   13.5 sacks and 24 tackles.   

 

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20 minutes ago, Myles said:

Yeah, that is most of my reasoning.  Freeney was great at what he did, but many times he needed Manning to set him up.   Manning would get the offense clicking early and teams would abandon their running game (which was great because the Colts run D wasn't great).   Freeney would then pin his ears back and away he went.      

ok that's a fair point!

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3 minutes ago, w87r said:

Yes, a sack also counts as a tackle

 

Yep. It is always a tackle but not always a tackle for a loss. It depends on who is tracking it - Pro Football Reference or ESPN

 

https://sports.stackexchange.com/questions/20525/does-a-sack-count-as-a-tackle-for-loss-and-or-a-tackle

 

https://www.steelers.com/news/asked-and-answered-dec-11-x0091

 

 

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10 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Mathis taught me what pass rushing "bend" is...he could almost horizontal to the ground.

And now he is teaching Turay.

 

Sky's the limit, just stay on the field.

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33 minutes ago, Myles said:

I just ask because Freeney had many seasons with so few tackles.   13.5 sacks and 24 tackles.   

 

This is one of the reasons I'm taking Mathis if I had to choose. 10 tackles on the season outside of sacks, just doesn't do it.

 

Freeney was just to one dimensional. Still HoF and one the best pass rushers ever though.

 

Teams would screen/draw underneath him for big chunks.

 

He did draw his share of false starts and holding penalties.

 

Mathis is just the more rounded player, imo.

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54 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I used to call Freeney the closer haha . If we had a lead, he would end the game.

If only his ankle was good for our NO Super Bowl.

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Side by side stats:

 

Mathis:

192 games

123 sacks(colts record)

538 tackles

54 FF

17 FR

3 TDs

 

Freeney:

218 games

125.5 sacks

350 tackles

46 FF

4 FR

1 TD

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21 minutes ago, w87r said:

Side by side stats:

 

Mathis:

192 games

123 sacks(colts record)

538 tackles

54 FF

17 FR

3 TDs

 

Freeney:

218 games

125.5 sacks

350 tackles

46 FF

4 FR

1 TD

That is telling but in a lot of those years Freeney was the one being doubled teamed. Mathis wasn't, Freeney opened it up for guys like Mathis.

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is there a hall of fame argument for Robert?  i think he might come up short but 120 sacks is a lot and i believe he hast the most forced fumbles ever in the league

 

i guess we can call that a record and a pretty cool one 

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27 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

is there a hall of fame argument for Robert?  i think he might come up short but 120 sacks is a lot and i believe he hast the most forced fumbles ever in the league

 

i guess we can call that a record and a pretty cool one 

Be a close call for Mathis and Freeney.

 

There is some guys in front of them that have better sack numbers.

 

Those FF's and strip sacks have to help his cause though.

 

Jared Allen

Leslie O'Neal

John Abraham

 

All those guys have more sacks. Borderline HoF above?

 

There is couple other guys not in the HoF yet above them in sacks that will be.

Peppers

Suggs

Ware

 

Currently 18 and 19 in career sacks(Freeney and Mathis)

Will be a close call. Seems pass rushers are left out a little bit.

 

Von Miller os closest active player to them.

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27 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

is there a hall of fame argument for Robert?  i think he might come up short but 120 sacks is a lot and i believe he hast the most forced fumbles ever in the league

 

i guess we can call that a record and a pretty cool one 

He does, and I dont think that will ever be broken. No one is close at all, active player wise.(Suggs, 37)

 

Freeney is 4th. Abraham is 3rd Peppers is 2nd.

 

I imagine Abraham has to get in before Mathis or Freeney. Peppers is a shoe in.

 

Peanut Tillman has 44 FF though, that is impressive.

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43 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is telling but in a lot of those years Freeney was the one being doubled teamed. Mathis wasn't, Freeney opened it up for guys like Mathis.

Why is Mathis's sack record a Colts record when Freeney has more? Is it average by game?

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He had like 2 more than Freeney as a Colt. Freeney has more sacks because when he left Indy he had a few more. 

15.5 more

 

Freeney had 107.5 as a Colt.

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42 minutes ago, w87r said:

15.5 more

 

Freeney had 107.5 as a Colt.

The only thing we lacked was a huge NT, we always struggled against the run. Booger was here in 2006 and we won the SB. The years we lost in the playoffs was because teams could run on us and control TOP. Peyton could only do so much.

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