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Nelson ranked fourth overall in NFL per PFF

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10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Mahomes not being #1 is silly.


Donald is the best defensive player in the NFL...but Mahomes is maybe the best we have ever seen at his position.

 

I have an inherent reservation about these types of list. You can’t compare positions like this in a vacuum. PFF acknowledges there are nuances...but does it anyway.

 

That’s fine...but it should be the “projected highest-graded players in football heading into 2020”...not the “best players in football heading into 2020.” 

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4 hours ago, shastamasta said:


Donald is the best defensive player in the NFL...but Mahomes is maybe the best we have ever seen at his position.

 

I have an inherent reservation about these types of list. You can’t compare positions like this in a vacuum. PFF acknowledges there are nuances...but does it anyway.

 

That’s fine...but it should be the “projected highest-graded players in football heading into 2020”...not the “best players in football heading into 2020.” 

Meh, Mahomes is good, I mean very good, but I need to see the longevity before I say he’s the best we’ve ever seen at the QB position, maybe athletically, but he’s still has a long ways to get to even the top 10 on the QB best ever list

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30 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Meh, Mahomes is good, I mean very good, but I need to see the longevity before I say he’s the best we’ve ever seen at the QB position, maybe athletically, but he’s still has a long ways to get to even the top 10 on the QB best ever list

I agree. Peyton, Brady, Montana, and Unitas is even better and he played back in the 50's/60's/early 70's. Mahomes is the best today but has a long way to go before he even enters the top 10 all-time. Elway, Rodgers, Favre, Marino just to name more who are top 10.

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Who in the top 20 players, besides QBs, would you trade Nelson for? Not saying we should, but who would provide more value to our team? I can only count a few players. 

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12 hours ago, shastamasta said:

Donald is the best defensive player in the NFL...but Mahomes is maybe the best we have ever seen at his position.

 

I have an inherent reservation about these types of list. You can’t compare positions like this in a vacuum. PFF acknowledges there are nuances...but does it anyway.

 

That’s fine...but it should be the “projected highest-graded players in football heading into 2020”...not the “best players in football heading into 2020.” 

I don't mind lists at all. It's just entertainment. 

 

And I agree it should be "projected best graded", but at the end of the day, their grading system needs to be tweeked so that projected best graded is the same as projected best.

 

Not going to crown Mahomes as best ever yet, but he certainly has the potential.

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The pancake producing player who pounds punks into the pavement is #1 in my book!!! 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I don't mind lists at all. It's just entertainment. 

 

And I agree it should be "projected best graded", but at the end of the day, their grading system needs to be tweeked so that projected best graded is the same as projected best.

 

Not going to crown Mahomes as best ever yet, but he certainly has the potential.

To me, the best ever has to in a sense revolutionize the game, do something no one else has or do it to a larger scale. To me, I don’t see that in mahomes, yet

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I just read the list.   I think it is solid for the most part with a few questions if players are declining or just had a down season. We all know Big Q is dominant. I would love to see him and and Aaron Donald face off.  I believe that will happen next year.   

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33 minutes ago, csmopar said:

To me, the best ever has to in a sense revolutionize the game, do something no one else has or do it to a larger scale. To me, I don’t see that in mahomes, yet

He has the potential to kill the records. And at his age (24) already has to 2 PBs, SB MVP, SB win, and many other accolades. He has several NFL and Chief records. He also is breaking "fastest to XX" records. 

 

In short, he's got a long way to go, but he's having a better start than anyone ever.

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At his current pace, Mahomes is trending to

be best ever.  Long way to go though as noted.   He should be listed as number one player.  If every player was available to draft right now, I’m confident every team would select Mahomes first

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11 minutes ago, Nate! said:

At his current pace, Mahomes is trending to

be best ever.  Long way to go though as noted.   He should be listed as number one player.  If every player was available to draft right now, I’m confident every team would select Mahomes first

Yup. If you used that list of 50, the draft order would be very different.

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12 hours ago, csmopar said:

Meh, Mahomes is good, I mean very good, but I need to see the longevity before I say he’s the best we’ve ever seen at the QB position, maybe athletically, but he’s still has a long ways to get to even the top 10 on the QB best ever list

 

12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree. Peyton, Brady, Montana, and Unitas is even better and he played back in the 50's/60's/early 70's. Mahomes is the best today but has a long way to go before he even enters the top 10 all-time. Elway, Rodgers, Favre, Marino just to name more who are top 10.

 

That's why I said "maybe"...but it was really just meant to reinforce how Mahomes has to be the #1 on a list for next season.

 

I actually look at "best" and "greatest" as two different things. It's still far too early to say Mahomes is the greatest QB...but I look at "best" as the level of QB play at that time. Right now, I would say Rodgers at his peak was the best level of QB play I have ever seen...but Mahomes is playing at a very comparable level.

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4 hours ago, Nate! said:

At his current pace, Mahomes is trending to

be best ever.  Long way to go though as noted.   He should be listed as number one player.  If every player was available to draft right now, I’m confident every team would select Mahomes first

Seattle would stick with Russell and take Donald. 

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2 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Seattle would stick with Russell and take Donald. 


I said every player available to draft.  If they were picking first, they’d take Mahomes.  Wouldn’t imagine a scenario where any team would get both Russell wilson and Donald

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9 hours ago, csmopar said:

To me, the best ever has to in a sense revolutionize the game, do something no one else has or do it to a larger scale. To me, I don’t see that in mahomes, yet

i.e Lawrence Taylor being the best ever LB, completely changed what it meant to be a LB.

 

Mahomes could be like that in a QB if he continues this trend.  I literally can't believe some of the throws he can make, as accurate as Peyton but while running sideways.

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7 hours ago, Nate! said:

At his current pace, Mahomes is trending to

be best ever.

I disagree. Until a QB that gets outside the pocket as much as he does...performs for enough years to be considered the best ever, I will question his long term contributions to the game. I like the kid a lot, but he's going to get roughed unless he changes his game.. 

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9 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

 

That's why I said "maybe"...but it was really just meant to reinforce how Mahomes has to be the #1 on a list for next season.

 

I actually look at "best" and "greatest" as two different things. It's still far too early to say Mahomes is the greatest QB...but I look at "best" as the level of QB play at that time. Right now, I would say Rodgers at his peak was the best level of QB play I have ever seen...but Mahomes is playing at a very comparable level.

If Mahomes wins that 2nd SB and has a period of 7 or 8 years of greatness (wins 2 more League MVP's) than he will be in the discussion with the Peyton's, Brady's, Montana's, etc.. So I agree with your "maybe". Eventhough football is a team game, some don't realize how big it is to win at least 2 SB's as a starter. A QB is just looked at differently when that happens. Bill Russell once said anyone can lead their team to one championship because of circumstance or getting lucky, but when you lead your team to two it is not a fluke. League MVP wise, Mahomes will never catch Peyton, Peyton won 5. Just like I don't seeing anyone ever having more SB wins as a QB than Brady who has 6.

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13 hours ago, EastStreet said:

He has the potential to kill the records. And at his age (24) already has to 2 PBs, SB MVP, SB win, and many other accolades. He has several NFL and Chief records. He also is breaking "fastest to XX" records. 

 

In short, he's got a long way to go, but he's having a better start than anyone ever.

He has to get there first. A lot of people have said this about various QBs over the past, hell, some people even did it with Luck.  The thing is, longevity is gonna be key. We’ve seen guys come in before, especially at QB, and make a huge flash that shocks everyone, only to fizzle our after 4-5 seasons, whether from injuries or just the league figuring that QBs style out. Ask me in 5 years and my opinion may be different on mahomes, but as I sit here today, not ready to call him the GOAT just yet

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34 minutes ago, csmopar said:

He has to get there first. A lot of people have said this about various QBs over the past, hell, some people even did it with Luck.  The thing is, longevity is gonna be key. We’ve seen guys come in before, especially at QB, and make a huge flash that shocks everyone, only to fizzle our after 4-5 seasons, whether from injuries or just the league figuring that QBs style out. Ask me in 5 years and my opinion may be different on mahomes, but as I sit here today, not ready to call him the GOAT just yet

nobody is calling him the GOAT.

he should be #1 on this list though

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I am still ROFLMAO at all the people who said...  No Interior Offensive Lineman is worth a #6 overall draft pick.

 

Barkeep, pour me another!

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19 minutes ago, jmac_48 said:

I am still ROFLMAO at all the people who said...  No Interior Offensive Lineman is worth a #6 overall draft pick.

 

Barkeep, pour me another!

At least I loved it at the time. Many didn't though I remember. That is the best draft pick Ballard has ever made IMO so far. 

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24 minutes ago, jmac_48 said:

I am still ROFLMAO at all the people who said...  No Interior Offensive Lineman is worth a #6 overall draft pick.

 

Barkeep, pour me another!

It's certainly a rarity though.

I was all for it because I'm a ND fan.

And Q is a unicorn lol

 

 

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

At least I loved it at the time. Many didn't though I remember. That is the best draft pick Ballard has ever made IMO so far. 

 

Well...    if you're going to put Nelson as one,  you then have to put Leonard in as 1a.   Few thought Darius was worth the 36th pick overall.    He's clearly out performed expectations.

 

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23 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well...    if you're going to put Nelson as one,  you then have to put Leonard in as 1a.   Few thought Darius was worth the 36th pick overall.    He's clearly out performed expectations.

Leonard's only resume blemish was he was from a small school. He had great production and measurables. Most projected him as a 2nd rounder. So maybe a little early, but not by a lot. He's out performed expectations early on, but I think many expected a lot out him from a career perspective. I mean, a 2nd round projection for a LB from a school like SC State is very rare. LBs are devalued already, so even more impressive.

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30 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well...    if you're going to put Nelson as one,  you then have to put Leonard in as 1a.   Few thought Darius was worth the 36th pick overall.    He's clearly out performed expectations.

 

Oh I agree, I like Nelson better but not by much. I think Mack was another solid pick. It wasn't great like the Nelson or Leonard picks but it was good.

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1 hour ago, jmac_48 said:

I am still ROFLMAO at all the people who said...  No Interior Offensive Lineman is worth a #6 overall draft pick.

 

Barkeep, pour me another!

Hey...I wanted him at the third pick. Thank god Ballard turned those 3 spots into gold!

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33 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Leonard's only resume blemish was he was from a small school. He had great production and measurables. Most projected him as a 2nd rounder. So maybe a little early, but not by a lot. He's out performed expectations early on, but I think many expected a lot out him from a career perspective. I mean, a 2nd round projection for a LB from a school like SC State is very rare. LBs are devalued already, so even more impressive.

 

I'm going by memory, but I don't think you were a member then....

 

But most of the computer simulated mocks had Leonard going in the 4th and 5th round.   So, most posters here were pretty shocked that Darius went so high.  Even some of the human mocks  thought he went high.   There was much gnashing of teeth...   and then Braden Smith went next and there was more gnashing of teeth.    Lots of angst here that night.     Then Turay and Lewis...

 

That Day 2 draft haul was not a fun night on this website...

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6 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Hey...I wanted him at the third pick. Thank god Ballard turned those 3 spots into gold!

Yup, Signature Move so far...

He's a young guy, can't wait to see what the future brings!

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3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm going by memory, but I don't think you were a member then....

 

But most of the computer simulated mocks had Leonard going in the 4th and 5th round.   So, most posters here were pretty shocked that Darius went so high.  Even some of the human mocks  thought he went high.   There was much gnashing of teeth...   and then Braden Smith went next and there was more gnashing of teeth.    Lots of angst here that night.     Then Turay and Lewis...

 

That Day 2 draft haul was not a fun night on this website...

Yes it was I thoroughly enjoyed it!

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8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm going by memory, but I don't think you were a member then....

 

But most of the computer simulated mocks had Leonard going in the 4th and 5th round.   So, most posters here were pretty shocked that Darius went so high.  Even some of the human mocks  thought he went high.   There was much gnashing of teeth...   and then Braden Smith went next and there was more gnashing of teeth.    Lots of angst here that night.     Then Turay and Lewis...

 

That Day 2 draft haul was not a fun night on this website...

NFL.com, Walter, Draft Scout, all had him 2nd-3rd. NFL.com gave him a pre-draft rating of 6.3 (likely day 2 and starter), and Brooks graded the pick a B+. Smith was a little lower at 6.2, but still a round 2-3 projected pick. Turay was a 6.2 and the same as Smith. Lewis was a 6.1 and I admit I gnashed my teeth on him. To me he was too much of a tweener/project.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

NFL.com, Walter, Draft Scout, all had him 2nd-3rd. NFL.com gave him a pre-draft rating of 6.3 (likely day 2 and starter), and Brooks graded the pick a B+. Smith was a little lower at 6.2, but still a round 2-3 projected pick. Turay was a 6.2 and the same as Smith. Lewis was a 6.1 and I admit I gnashed my teeth on him. To me he was too much of a tweener/project.

Thanks....

 

I too went back and double checked...   a number of good evaluations.   I’m remembering more of the computer mocks that so many members here love to play.    They were less accurate on Darius.    So that left lots of people here very not happy that night.  Add Smith, Turay and Lewis and made for a long night here on the website.   
 

Took a while to smooth things over here.   A long bumpy ride....

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4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks....

 

I too went back and double checked...   a number of good evaluations.   I’m remembering more of the computer mocks that so many members here love to play.    They were less accurate on Darius.    So that left lots of people here very not happy that night.  Add Smith, Turay and Lewis and made for a long night here on the website.   
 

Took a while to smooth things over here.   A long bumpy ride....

Maybe a couple of those threads need bumped.

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12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks....

 

I too went back and double checked...   a number of good evaluations.   I’m remembering more of the computer mocks that so many members here love to play.    They were less accurate on Darius.    So that left lots of people here very not happy that night.  Add Smith, Turay and Lewis and made for a long night here on the website.   
 

Took a while to smooth things over here.   A long bumpy ride....

 

I get why folks scratch their heads a bit on Leonard because of the small school thing. That's understandable to me and natural. I can't understand the hate that Smith was getting though. He was a highly decorated OL from big school, and had pretty good projections. I mean I know OL aren't sexy picks in general (especially interior), but to me it was a very safe pick in terms of value, and low risk. The only surprise is that he's succeeded at OT instead of OG.

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I get why folks scratch their heads a bit on Leonard because of the small school thing. That's understandable to me and natural. I can't understand the hate that Smith was getting though. He was a highly decorated OL from big school, and had pretty good projections. I mean I know OL aren't sexy picks in general (especially interior), but to me it was a very safe pick in terms of value, and low risk. The only surprise is that he's succeeded at OT instead of OG.

I think it was more that at the time, some people were already upset we took a Guard that high(#6 Q), then they were surprises we doubled down with Guard in round 2.

 

I wasn't one of those as, Smith was rated #2/#3 Guard in the class. I thought that was a good pick. Even better, now that he locked down the RT spot.

 

I think that is what played into it at the time.

 

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2 minutes ago, w87r said:

I think it was more that at the time, some people were already upset we took a Guard that high(#6 Q), then they were surprises we doubled down with Guard in round 2.

 

I wasn't one of those as, Smith was rated #2/#3 Guard in the class. I thought that was a good pick. Even better, now that he locked down the RT spot.

 

I think that is what played into it at the time.

 

 

Yup, and let's be honest. OL, especially OGs and Cs, are just not sexy for most people. 

 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

Yup, and let's be honest. OL, especially OGs and Cs, are just not sexy for most people. 

 

Sure looks sexy now.

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