Bounty System Vs. Spygate

[HarassedOffTheSite]

LOL Woooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[pacolts56]

I voted for the bounties as the worse of the two. Both seriously violate NFL rules so let's put that aside.

But the incentivizing of injury by the Saints thug leadership, the overall arrogance while it was happening and the blatant lying about it afterwards make it a complete no-brainer for me.... and the punishment, so far, has been splendidly handled by Roger Goodell.

Although as a true Saints hater.... 40 lashes each with a rusty length of barbwire wouldn't have upset me in the least.

Okay, okay..... I'm just kidding about that part.

[Steve Waugh]

I really find it irrational to believe spygate helped Pats fully to win.

Filming is onething. But the players still have to go and execute the play. Lack of SBs after 2004 is a direct relationship to their defense.

Even with those 3 SBs, first with Tuck rule tarnishes it a bit. But win is a win and they earned them.

Bounty is a different story all together. You are making hits knowing you could get a penalty and derail a player. Infact, all the wins should be stripped ( but that wont happen ).

[Blue Horseshoe]

I think the Saints should have been forced to vacate the championship in addition to the suspensions, etc.

Bounty system, no question about this one.

[Thewholefnshow28]

Spygate was about stealing signals and guess what every team is trying to steal the signals. There are reasons why coordinators cover their mouth when calling in plays. They are not doing it just for looks. That is because across the field there are people watching to see if they can pick up on anything. The problem was the Pats just took it to the extreme. To think this was the reason why they won the three titles is, I know this is one of the bad words, being a homer. You are letting your hatred cloud your mind and look at things subjectively. They have continued to be a dominate team since then and have gone to two more Super Bowls. If it was the sole reason for their success, as some users suggest, then they would have gone into a tail spin after they were forced to stop.

The bounty system is by far the worst out of the two because it created a culture in NO that encouraged dirty hits. It is one thing to lay a great legal hit that knocks a player out of the game. The problem is players want that money more and more so they start taking cheap shots here and there to get the player out before their teammate does. I have no problem with a MLB laying a perfectly good hit on a RB and out he goes. That is just part of the game, but what they were doing to Brett in NFC title game was just dirty. Late hits were a staple of that defense that day and when you have a culture that is creating that kind of mentality you have crossed the line.

On one hand the taping of signals and going over it at half time might have given them an advantage. On the other one we know if a player takes out your best player with a dirty hit we know that team just got an advantage over your team.

[JimJaime]

I would def go with Bountygate for a couple of reasons:

1. BountyGate has opened up a hole can of possibly serious legal issues for the league. (like someone mention Favre has a good case IMO)

2. Makes the game thus the league look like nothing more than a bunch of brutes out hurt eachother.

Not to mention this would be a non issue if the Saints had not lied to the Commish to begin with and actually stopped when they said they stopped. ( so the Saints are like the kid in school told not to pick on the other child (and they deny they ever did) and as soon as they think the teacher away they go back to doing it. )

[-JJ-]

Spygate was about stealing signals and guess what every team is trying to steal the signals. There are reasons why coordinators cover their mouth when calling in plays. They are not doing it just for looks. That is because across the field there are people watching to see if they can pick up on anything. The problem was the Pats just took it to the extreme. To think this was the reason why they won the three titles is, I know this is one of the bad words, being a homer. You are letting your hatred cloud your mind and look at things subjectively. They have continued to be a dominate team since then and have gone to two more Super Bowls. If it was the sole reason for their success, as some users suggest, then they would have gone into a tail spin after they were forced to stop.

The bounty system is by far the worst out of the two because it created a culture in NO that encouraged dirty hits. It is one thing to lay a great legal hit that knocks a player out of the game. The problem is players want that money more and more so they start taking cheap shots here and there to get the player out before their teammate does. I have no problem with a MLB laying a perfectly good hit on a RB and out he goes. That is just part of the game, but what they were doing to Brett in NFC title game was just dirty. Late hits were a staple of that defense that day and when you have a culture that is creating that kind of mentality you have crossed the line.

On one hand the taping of signals and going over it at half time might have given them an advantage. On the other one we know if a player takes out your best player with a dirty hit we know that team just got an advantage over your team.

I agree and would add a few points. I rarely comment on spygate (actually its cameragate because all teams spy) but here are a few common sense points.

1. BB pushed the rule as in cannot film for use in the game currently played. The wording is debatable enough to get a 50-50 decision in court but the NFL is not a court so BB quickly complied with the commissioner's finding. Clearly BB is not so stupid to film at the Jets with Mangini just blocks away from NFL HQ in plain sight.

2. To use it in game you would need sophisticated military hitech helmet cams/communications equip etc. Not even remotely an option.

3. You can steal signs visibly but not sideline cameras. So what edge does NE get here.

Well you want to get as much data as you can compile to make war plans. Signals are just one piece of all that data. Videos would be easier to go over than hand written notes,laptops ect. Teams change their signals every game so you're compiling data to maybe get a pattern of sorts. Again its about compiling all data available with signals being just one piece.

[eaglejoe8]

I agree and would add a few points. I rarely comment on spygate (actually its cameragate because all teams spy) but here are a few common sense points.

1. BB pushed the rule as in cannot film for use in the game currently played. The wording is debatable enough to get a 50-50 decision in court but the NFL is not a court so BB quickly complied with the commissioner's finding. Clearly BB is not so stupid to film at the Jets with Mangini just blocks away from NFL HQ in plain sight.

2. To use it in game you would need sophisticated military hitech helmet cams/communications equip etc. Not even remotely an option.

3. You can steal signs visibly but not sideline cameras. So what edge does NE get here.

Well you want to get as much data as you can compile to make war plans. Signals are just one piece of all that data. Videos would be easier to go over than hand written notes,laptops ect. Teams change their signals every game so you're compiling data to maybe get a pattern of sorts. Again its about compiling all data available with signals being just one piece.

The part that always got me, was the idea of memorizing an entire half game of all the subtle hand gestures, and syncing them up with the play being run....all during a 12 minute halftime.

[hawkeyes]

I think these issues are on different ends of the spectrum so it's tough to compare the two on the same terms. Spygate equated to breaking rules and cheating other teams and the game! Bountygate wasn't cheating - I would say it was borderline criminal and quite possibly could be dealt with at a criminal level. I think they are equally bad for the game.

[SubZero]

I'm goin Spygate. They cheated for years. Gained a competitive advantage and then came up with some lame excuse of not knowing it was wrong. Their punishment was far less than what was deserved because Kraft and Goddell are BFFs...what the Saints did was wrong and dirty but not uncommon. Cheating is terrible

I cant believe anyone would choose spygate. The spygate was just selfish and to be honest Brady proves to be an elite quarterback who earned those SBs fair. But putting bounties on fellow players heads is just sick and wrong. Also the Bounty has been going on for years. They maliciously meant to ruin players careers and wanted them gone. Football is a fun sport where in the end everyone is part of one big community. I get it players might get under each others skin but in no way shape or form should anyone get carted off. Picking spygate is a biast and ignorant choice.

[Jay305]

No one was trying to cause you bodily harm in spygate.

[Tony Sullivan]

If we were to remove these things from the fantasy world of sports... the Saints would be in jail for conspiracy to commit felonious assault... the Patriots would just be really, really creepy peeping toms.

Do you know what America did to spies pre-Obama? Waterboarding and guantanamo