Bounty System Vs. Spygate

[coltsfanmilyman 26]

Okay I fiigured this would be a good topic for debate.

I personally feel the bounty system is way more hurtful and a bigger black eye on the NFL than spygate. At least with spygate they weren't intentionally trying to hurt players. Stealing signs has been done in every sport. . . . .

What do you guys think?

[Vance 6]

Bounty, no question.

[jemack 16]

Bounty, no question.

And today's NFL's suspensions prove it

[Fx Stryker 10]

You don't maliciously target other players. Bounty, no question.

[ruksak 35]

I'm waiting for Favre's civil suite. They might as well have pulled shanks and viciously stabbed him.

[Malakai432 1,009]

Wow it's unanimous thus far.

[Mr.Debonair 1,678]

I'm goin Spygate. They cheated for years. Gained a competitive advantage and then came up with some lame excuse of not knowing it was wrong. Their punishment was far less than what was deserved because Kraft and Goddell are BFFs...what the Saints did was wrong and dirty but not uncommon. Cheating is terrible

[HarassedOffTheSite 17]

Spygate. They stole 3 Super Bowls.

[jvan1973 4,797]

I find it laughable that a thread about a former QB is filled with posting police complaints.. Yet this is ok... funny stuff

[CR91 6,012]

i dont even remember what the pats punishment is

[21isSuperman 998]

I say the Bounty scandal. With Spygate, they were essentially taking something legal to the next level. From what I understand, opposing players and coaches are allowing to watch another team's practices, but they can't videotape it. It didn't hurt anyone. The Bounty system was a coach going out of his way to have his players hurt the other players. The commish wants to be tough on player safety, and this is going completely against it. Not only that, but many people view the game of football as just "huge guys smashing each other" when there is really lots of strategy to it. The Bounty scandal leaves a black eye on the NFL because those people will have their beliefs reinforced, having them think poorly of the game.

[FireJimCaldwell 6]

Both are horrible but on different levels.

[21isSuperman 998]

i dont even remember what the pats punishment is

If I remember right, it was loss of a first round pick (they lost their late first rounder, they still had the 7th overall pick from a trade with SF I think and they took Mayo), Belichick got fined $500 000 and the organization was fined either $750 000 or $1 000 000

[HarassedOffTheSite 17]

Delete

[coltsfanmilyman 26]

I'm with the majority too... man for as bad as spygate was, their was no malicious intent to injure or end careers. Trying to injure players in any sport at any level. . . .what does this say to the kids of today? Hurt somebody else so you win and get more money. . . .Bad Bad Bad.

[eaglejoe8 6]

Bounty gate IMO.

Even as an Eagle fan who's team lost to the Pats in a Super Bowl, I never thought we lost because of Spygate. The Pats were beatable that day. I felt we lost because of our own mistakes and missed opportunities. The act of stealing signals in and of itself is a legal practice. It was their use of a video camera that made it illegal, and I've never been convinced that using a camera makes it that much more effective. Further, their original video taper Matt Walsh, who became known shortly before Super Bowl 42, had an axe to grind with the organization for firing him, revealed a couple things to Goodell in May of 08 when he finally agreed to turn over the evidence he had in his possession. He stated that video tapes stayed in his possession the whole game, and were given to Ernie Adams afterwards, so that would mean they weren't used in the same game. He also stated that he never taped the Rams walkthrough, he was never asked to, and he had no knowledge of anyone having taped it. (The Boston Herald then retracted the story in which they claimed a source claimed it was video taped). Keep in mind, this was not a guy looking to protect the Pats.

Personally, I've always felt that the Pats lack of any more Super Bowls has much more to do with their defense going down hill since 2004. Spygate came to light in 2007. That leaves 2 seasons inbetween in which they were still filming. The 05 Pats team got smacked around in Denver in the divisional round of the playoffs, and the 06 team was lucky to get out of San Deigo in the divisional round, and then blew a 21-3 lead in the AFCCG against the Colts. Since Spygate, they've still won no fewer than 11 games in a season, won 4 out of 5 division titles, 2 #1 seeds, and won 2 AFC Championships. Their bad luck has been facing the Giants who seem to be their kryptonite. Had they faced the Packers and Niners, I think they have 1, possibly 2 more championships.

[Peyton and Eli fan 0]

The intentions of bounty gate are worse, but I don't know if it actually changed how anyone played on the field (which is another reason why it was stupid to keep it up). Going to the superbowl wasn't enough of a motivation?

[Andy 6]

Bounty = Spygate on steroids...

At least that's what the league thinks

[MAC 60]

Bountygate. It's like saying "which offense is worse, copying test answers from the smartest guy in the room, or cracking his head open so he won't throw the grading curve off". Hmmmmm, let me think about this for a minute.

I suspect that anyone who says "spygate" is fixated on their hatred of the Patriots, and not thinking this through. Here's a point of reference, one is a minor effort to get a small competitive edge (if you think that they won the three super bowls because of this you are kidding yourself), the other is a FELONY. Reality check please.

[Peyton and Eli fan 0]

Just curious, has it been determined if they were rewarded for dirty hits that took out players or just clean ones? Not saying that it's right, but I just wonder if they changed their style of play because of the bounties or not.

[Betty27_1 0]

As much as I dislike the Patriots, I have to say without any hesitation the Bounty System is much worse then Spygate. With Spygate no one was physically hurt. With the Bounty System, there was intent to hurt someone.

To me, it shouldn't even be up for debate...the Bounty System is by far much worse.

[GAColtfan 0]

If we were to remove these things from the fantasy world of sports... the Saints would be in jail for conspiracy to commit felonious assault... the Patriots would just be really, really creepy peeping toms.

[Moose Of Woe 2]

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[ViriLudant 4]

Considering that Tony Dungy, Bill Polian, Jimmy Johnson, among many, MANY others, have come out and stated that the videotaping by the Patriots did not give the Patriots an edge, that it was something that all teams had done; BB's mistake was to continue doing it after the NFL had sent a memo saying to stop the practice.

BB was/is a film fanatic; he learned that at his father's knee. He made an arrogant mistake, and paid the penalty. But for uninformed "fans" to claim that the Patriost won 3 SBs because of it is just plain lunacy.

[ViriLudant 4]

If we were to remove these things from the fantasy world of sports... the Saints would be in jail for conspiracy to commit felonious assault... the Patriots would just be really, really creepy peeping toms.

Okay, that definitely made me laugh out loud.

[GoPats 123]

Take this with a grain of salt since I'm a Pats fan, but these two scandals aren't even comparable in my mind. Good to see the majority of you (39-6) agree.

I do feel for Saints fans this morning. It's not their fault any of this happened, nor did any of them know a thing about it. As a fan, it just really sucks when your team is surrounded by controversy and critics.

I would encourage anyone who hangs their hat on Spygate to work from a base of facts though. Most people seem to forget the details of what happened, what the Patriots were doing that was against the rules, etc. If you know your facts and still want to asterisk the Patriots' three championships, I have no problem with that. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But when people base their opinions on inaccuracies, that's not right. (As recently as this week, on this forum, someone posted something about the Patriots stealing the Colts' offensive plays back in 2003/2004... not at all the case.)

A little irony that no one's brought up:

The Saints got two 2nd round picks taken away from them. I wondered why it wasn't at least one first. The reason? The Patriots have the Saints' first-round pick this year from last year's trade!

[GoPats 123]

Bounty gate IMO.

Even as an Eagle fan who's team lost to the Pats in a Super Bowl, I never thought we lost because of Spygate. The Pats were beatable that day. I felt we lost because of our own mistakes and missed opportunities. The act of stealing signals in and of itself is a legal practice. It was their use of a video camera that made it illegal, and I've never been convinced that using a camera makes it that much more effective. Further, their original video taper Matt Walsh, who became known shortly before Super Bowl 42, had an axe to grind with the organization for firing him, revealed a couple things to Goodell in May of 08 when he finally agreed to turn over the evidence he had in his possession. He stated that video tapes stayed in his possession the whole game, and were given to Ernie Adams afterwards, so that would mean they weren't used in the same game. He also stated that he never taped the Rams walkthrough, he was never asked to, and he had no knowledge of anyone having taped it. (The Boston Herald then retracted the story in which they claimed a source claimed it was video taped). Keep in mind, this was not a guy looking to protect the Pats.

Personally, I've always felt that the Pats lack of any more Super Bowls has much more to do with their defense going down hill since 2004. Spygate came to light in 2007. That leaves 2 seasons inbetween in which they were still filming. The 05 Pats team got smacked around in Denver in the divisional round of the playoffs, and the 06 team was lucky to get out of San Deigo in the divisional round, and then blew a 21-3 lead in the AFCCG against the Colts. Since Spygate, they've still won no fewer than 11 games in a season, won 4 out of 5 division titles, 2 #1 seeds, and won 2 AFC Championships. Their bad luck has been facing the Giants who seem to be their kryptonite. Had they faced the Packers and Niners, I think they have 1, possibly 2 more championships.

Great post Joe. Thanks.

If we were to remove these things from the fantasy world of sports... the Saints would be in jail for conspiracy to commit felonious assault... the Patriots would just be really, really creepy peeping toms.

This made me LOL...

Considering that Tony Dungy, Bill Polian, Jimmy Johnson, among many, MANY others, have come out and stated that the videotaping by the Patriots did not give the Patriots an edge, that it was something that all teams had done; BB's mistake was to continue doing it after the NFL had sent a memo saying to stop the practice.

Jimmy Johnson said Howard Mudd was "the best in the entire league" at stealing other team's signals.

http://www.aolnews.com/2007/09/29/jimmy-johnson-howard-mudd-was-the-best-in-the-entire-league-at/

Most people don't understand. It wasn't what the Patriots were doing. It's how they were doing it.

[JerodMayo51 0]

Spygate. They stole 3 Super Bowls.

Oh please... read this article and educate yourself on what Spygate was actually about. It was one of the most overblown things in the history of the sport and countless credible coaches, media, owners etc agree with that

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/199345-the-truth-about-spygate-punishing-success-and-promoting-parity

[HarassedOffTheSite 17]

Oh please... read this article and educate yourself on what Spygate was actually about.

Everyone save Patriots* apologist and milquetoast fence sitters knew instinctively what Spygate was. Trying to throw links, articles, commentary and bassackwards analysis at it will never overcome that.

If their cheating didn't prosper, they would not have continued to cheat.

They stole 3 Super Bowls.

[dynasty13 25]

Everyone save Patriots* apologist and milquetoast fence sitters knew instinctively what Spygate was. Trying to throw links, articles, commentary and bassackwards analysis at it will never overcome that.

If their cheating didn't prosper, they would not have continued to cheat.

They stole 3 Super Bowls.

The crazy thing about the Patriots and spygate, and this is for those that believe it gave them an advantage, is that Spygate was about filming the other teams defensive signals...which should have helped our offense, right? But wait!!! The strength of those Superbowl teams was the defense, and Brady was often described as a game manager who always came up with the big play when he needed it. But since spygate broke and that action stopped, our offense has been out of this world...breaking records left and right...which in a way undermines spygate entirely. In all seriousness, the Patriots are 2 freak plays and 2 minutes away from having two more Superbowls since spygate...which on its own should silence the critics...Could you imagine if the Patriots had 3 titles during spygate and 2 more after for 5 Championships in 11 years? Spygate would be just a blip on the radar....not this wet dream for haters that its become.

It'll be an uphill battle for Saints fans...success tends to cure all...but with stripped picks and suspensions, getting back to the top may be a ways off for them.

[HarassedOffTheSite 17]

...Spygate was about filming the other teams defensive signals...

Line #4 of the Patriots* apologist handbook.

Mod Edit.

If their cheating didn't prosper, they would not have continued to cheat.

They stole 3 Super Bowls.

Edited March 22, 2012 by shecolt
personal shot

[dynasty13 25]

Line #4 of the Patriots* apologist handbook.

Again...for the cerebrally slow, lame and lazy...

If their cheating didn't prosper, they would not have continued to cheat.

Look...the time to argue for or against spygate has come and gone. I'm just saying its funny how Colts fans used to love saying how overrated Brady was and it was all defense that won for them, yet as soon as spygate broke, we were supposed to believe that the advantage apparently given to our offense all those years was the difference maker?

Its a big of revisionist history if you ask me...but thats fine. You are of course entitled to your opinion and there are many that feel the same way. I just feel bad that Saints fans will now have defend their team against people who want to undermine what they worked so hard to achieve. These situations are unfortunate...but the fans themselves have nothing to do with it, there are good and bad fans in every fanbase, and nobody should ever say that the fans themselves 'deserve it'.

[HarassedOffTheSite 17]

You keep typing things like I am going to read it.

No.

If their cheating didn't prosper, they would not have continued to cheat.

They stole 3 Super Bowls.

[dynasty13 25]

You keep typing things like I am going to read it.

Question.

Why bother coming to a message board if you wont listen to other points of view? You're like a child with his hands over his ears stomping like 'na na na na na na i cant hear you'.

Its fine to have a different opinion...its fine to be passionate about it. But dont just shake off someone else's because you think you're right and they're wrong. Your proof is no more valid than anyone else's...thats what makes it an interesting topic.

[GoPats 123]

You keep typing things like I am going to read it.

Funny, I thought this was a message board. I must have stumbled into the wrong establishment.

Check please!

[funktacious2 377]

Players' well-being vs. cheating. Both terrible, but the value of the players' health is of paramount importance. The bounty is no doubt the bigger travesty here.

[ViriLudant 4]

Line #4 of the Patriots* apologist handbook.

Mod Edit.

If their cheating didn't prosper, they would not have continued to cheat.

They stole 3 Super Bowls.

Says someone who clearly has no idea what Spygate was about.

But hey, keep spewing the typical hater lines.

The Patriots were punished for WHERE the camera was located.

I have noticed that some Colt fans think that the Patriots were penalized for filming practices. That never happened. Just wishful thinking.

[Peytongirl 1]

For fans who say that Spygate helped the Patriots steal SBs, then Bountygate no doubt helped the Saints obtain their SB (their entire path to the SB not just the game itself). Bountygate just did so in much worse fashion.

Deliberately setting out to injure a fellow player is despicable. And to do so on a bet or for extra money.

Not to mention the outside bets on it.

[Peytongirl 1]

Please find more civil ways to discuss the subjects at hand without being inciting or insulting. If posters only wish to hear their own viewpoints, then there is no purpose to continue in a particular discussion except to incite and inflame and that is considered trolling.

[Susie Q 19]

Please find more civil ways to discuss the subjects at hand without being inciting or insulting. If posters only wish to hear their own viewpoints, then there is no purpose to continue in a particular discussion except to incite and inflame and that is considered trolling.

Thanks for the friendly reminder.