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Colts Malik Hooker, Darius Leonard Named to PFF’s ‘All-Clutch Team’

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1 hour ago, csmopar said:

A bit surprised to see Malik on there. 

I'm not, it echos what I've been saying. QB's don't throw his way and if they do they usually pay the price, just ask Rivers. But hey everyone wants him to be a strong safety.....

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My biggest gripe with Hooker has been when he has had to come up and make some tackles and looked completely incompetent.  I think that can be improved, but his range can't be.  He can cover some serious territory and QB's have to know where he is.

 

With a projected better rush (and hopefully playing with a lead much of this year) I think Hooker will get 3+ INT's this year.

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1 hour ago, twfish said:

I'm not, it echos what I've been saying. QB's don't throw his way and if they do they usually pay the price, just ask Rivers. But hey everyone wants him to be a strong safety.....

Strong safety?   Huh?   What does that mean!   Sorry, I don’t follow your meaning?   

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Injuries on defense didn't help Hooker either. Instead of playing cover 1 with Hooker as the single high to roam and make plays, we played mostly cover 2 and when you can't leave your zone, you take away Hooker's best asset. 

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4 hours ago, csmopar said:

A bit surprised to see Malik on there. 

I think he was actually on the “all CRUTCH team”.

sorry Malik.

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wow crazy to see that "bum" Hooker on there seeing as how all I've ever been told is that he is terrible. 

 

glad to see someone showing him some appreciation!!

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14 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

wow crazy to see that "bum" Hooker on there seeing as how all I've ever been told is that he is terrible. 

 

glad to see someone showing him some appreciation!!

Agreed.

sure he may not have lived up to the high pick, mainly from injuries i think, but i dont think he’s bad.  If Ballard moves on, i think the injury history will be the primary reason.  Plus, someone will make a crazy offer probably.  I am surprised we didnt take the 5th year option at about $6 million or so.

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2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Strong safety?   Huh?   What does that mean!   Sorry, I don’t follow your meaning?   

I can't tell if your pulling my leg or not honestly lol

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Let's root for Hooker this year to get the Colts the highest comp pick possible.  It'll only take 3.125% of NFL GMs to agree with PFF, so our odds are pretty good.  Lets hope that he doesn't blow it by being merely average.

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44 minutes ago, twfish said:

I can't tell if your pulling my leg or not honestly lol

 

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55 minutes ago, twfish said:

I can't tell if your pulling my leg or not honestly lol

I’m not pulling anything.   You claimed everyone here wants Hooker to play Strong Safety.    I have no idea what that means, so I’m asking to find out...

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m not pulling anything.   You claimed everyone here wants Hooker to play Strong Safety.    I have no idea what that means, so I’m asking to find out...

I took it that he meant we are wasting his real talent by asking him to come up in the box like a SS when he should be back deep ball hawking. 

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m not pulling anything.   You claimed everyone here wants Hooker to play Strong Safety.    I have no idea what that means, so I’m asking to find out...

Free Safety is a roaming safety playing mostly a high zone coverage to make sure a deep ball isnt thrown on us and helps CB's shut down the #1 receiver. A Strong Safety is typically the one who is stacking the box, playing closer to the line of scrimmage helping out in run support and isnt as coverage heavy. Think of your hard hitters like Bob Sanders as your Strong  Safety and Ed Reed as your Free Safety. Now i was being a little facetious by saying everyone wants hooker to be a strong safety because they complain he doesn't tackle enough, which isnt really part of what he is supposed to do outside of being the very last line of defense.

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The colts are going to be going away from a typical SS and FS. They want versatile safeties that can playeverywhere on the field. That’s why Hookers option wasn’t picked up. 

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1 minute ago, twfish said:

Now i was being a little facetious by saying everyone wants hooker to be a strong safety

Have to admit, I thought you were being serious on first read through.

 

Reading back I can clearly see you weren't.

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6 hours ago, twfish said:

I'm not, it echos what I've been saying. QB's don't throw his way and if they do they usually pay the price, just ask Rivers. But hey everyone wants him to be a strong safety.....

So.....that being said......the Colts do not want to pick up his 5th year option totally due injury history, his play or all of the above?  If what u say is true, then Ballard doesn't know what he is doing??

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2 hours ago, twfish said:

Free Safety is a roaming safety playing mostly a high zone coverage to make sure a deep ball isnt thrown on us and helps CB's shut down the #1 receiver. A Strong Safety is typically the one who is stacking the box, playing closer to the line of scrimmage helping out in run support and isnt as coverage heavy. Think of your hard hitters like Bob Sanders as your Strong  Safety and Ed Reed as your Free Safety. Now i was being a little facetious by saying everyone wants hooker to be a strong safety because they complain he doesn't tackle enough, which isnt really part of what he is supposed to do outside of being the very last line of defense.

Ok...    so what I missed was you being facetious...    ok...  that often doesn’t translate on the internet.   Or, at least with me.

 

Thanks for explaining...   

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11 hours ago, twfish said:

Free Safety is a roaming safety playing mostly a high zone coverage to make sure a deep ball isnt thrown on us and helps CB's shut down the #1 receiver. A Strong Safety is typically the one who is stacking the box, playing closer to the line of scrimmage helping out in run support and isnt as coverage heavy. Think of your hard hitters like Bob Sanders as your Strong  Safety and Ed Reed as your Free Safety. Now i was being a little facetious by saying everyone wants hooker to be a strong safety because they complain he doesn't tackle enough, which isnt really part of what he is supposed to do outside of being the very last line of defense.

It keeps the #1 receiver from beating the CB deep, not necessarily shutting him down.  If the CB is unable to be physical, reactive, or athletic, then he gets beat regardless.  And being matched up against the #1 WR is more of a man-coverage thing since the CB might release the WR in zone coverage.

 

Ed Reed has value when you have a Vontae Davis type of CB on your defense, and that type of FS doesn't have much value if you don't....or don't plan to, JMO.  And the Vontae Davis types are typically harder to find worth more to a defense than the FS (because the CB has to shut down more plays than just the deep ball, including supporting the run like VD used to), unless maybe you're the one off exception like Ed Reed in his prime.

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15 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

wow crazy to see that "bum" Hooker on there seeing as how all I've ever been told is that he is terrible. 

 

glad to see someone showing him some appreciation!!

 

 Ballard and the defensive staff recently gave THEIR grade on Hooker.
 We saw enough to say he was available on draft day. 
  X my fingers for better play at his position.

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14 hours ago, DougDew said:

Let's root for Hooker this year to get the Colts the highest comp pick possible.  It'll only take 3.125% of NFL GMs to agree with PFF, so our odds are pretty good.  Lets hope that he doesn't blow it by being merely average.

 

I'm hoping he plays so well that Ballard re-signs him.  :thmup:

 

He's only 24.  So if he plays smart and stays healthy, I want him on the Colts during his prime years.  :rock:

 

I don't wanna see him in his prime on the Texans, Titans, Jags, Pats, Chiefs, Steelers, or as Ed Reed 2.0 for the Ravens for the next decade...  :groan:

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Hookers main problem has been avail-ABILITY.  If he can improve that ability he'll be fine.  If not, he won't be back.  Simple as that.

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19 hours ago, CR91 said:

Injuries on defense didn't help Hooker either. Instead of playing cover 1 with Hooker as the single high to roam and make plays, we played mostly cover 2 and when you can't leave your zone, you take away Hooker's best asset. 

 

  This.

 

  Which was always why drafting him where CB did was a bit of a head

  scratcher. 

 

  I get that he supposedly 'fell' and was thus, 'great value'. But you were 

  planning on playing a scheme on D that doesn't really accentuate his

  primary asset as a player.

 

  

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On 5/26/2020 at 1:08 PM, Luck2Hilton4TD said:

 

Don't worry about it Malik. I'm one of the few Colts faithful who knows your worth. "

 

I absolutely want Hooker back. And should he stay healthy and produce like always, he should be a Colt for 3 more years.

 

This team has not had a ball hawk safety ever. And once we find one, yes he's had injuries but so did Bob the builder.

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38 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Don't worry about it Malik. I'm one of the few Colts faithful who knows your worth. "

 

I absolutely want Hooker back. And should he stay healthy and produce like always, he should be a Colt for 3 more years.

 

This team has not had a ball hawk safety ever. And once we find one, yes he's had injuries but so did Bob the builder.

I agree I also wish we would just use him like he should be used instead of wasting his skills 

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I mentioned this once before in another thread, and I'll say it again here. There will be a TON of this team's final roster for the season playing on contracts that will expire at the end of this season (maybe almost half the roster). Heck, just two of those guys alone - Rivers and Brissett - will contribute to over $45 million in cap room for the team going into next offseason. So the team is going to be rolling in cash again next offseason. Could they top $100 million free? I don't know, but it will be huge. What does this have to do with Hooker? Here's what.

 

They didn't need to put themselves on the hook now for another year with him next year. Someone mentioned that all it takes is one team to offer him a boat load to lose him. Well, with the money this team will have, that won't matter. Because no matter what offers he gets, if this team wants him back, they will have way more than enough to match or beat those offers in order to keep him. And they hold all the leverage here because of it.

 

So it's not about the team not wanting him back because of his play, or because of his injuries, or anything else like that. It's simply because they don't HAVE to decide right now.

 

So why should they? Unless they were 100% sold, there's no reason for them to decide right now. Give themselves every last bit of information on him, which will include this upcoming season, and then decide based on ALL of the possible information. That's just smart business.

 

Something I, being new to the Colts, am coming to be quite impressed with in Ballard and this staff. Especially after following the traveling circus sideshow I've followed the last 15 years.

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1 hour ago, PrideOfAthens17 said:

So why should they? Unless they were 100% sold, there's no reason for them to decide right now. Give themselves every last bit of information on him, which will include this upcoming season, and then decide based on ALL of the possible information. That's just smart business.

 

Careful.  That might make too much sense for the few that didn't like drafting Hooker and want him gone ASAP so that they can be "right" about him...  :funny:

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On 5/26/2020 at 8:15 PM, Chloe6124 said:

The colts are going to be going away from a typical SS and FS. They want versatile safeties that can playeverywhere on the field. That’s why Hookers option wasn’t picked up. 

Not really. They drafted Willis last year, and he's definitely in the mold of Strong/Box safety. He got abused in coverage a lot. He was targeted 50% more than Hooker, yet only played about 75% of the snaps that Hooker did. QBs definitely picked on his side whenever possible. And in that, he gave up a 87% completion rate, while Hooker only gave up 65%. Geathers played a little less (snaps) than Willis due to injury, but he was only targeted about a 1/3 of the amount Willis was.

 

But sure, they want flexibility from a subset of the DBs they draft, but they also need guys with specific skill sets like Hooker. Nickel is really our base, and we play a fair amount of Dime too. So yes, they need flexible guys for the subpackages, who are also capable of specific positional depth. 

 

Also keep in mind that Eberflus said last year that he wanted to play more Man D (more Cover 1), which would have allowed Hooker to play his more natural position. We never really saw that though (more Man), hence our Charmin soft zone most of the year. I'd guess we saw more soft zone simply because our O with JB was pretty mediocre. Now that we have a QB that's capable, and what should be an improved pass rush, perhaps Eberflus will call more Man.

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18 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

hence our Charmin soft zone most of the year.

 

You have Charmin?  That's the good stuff.  Don't be holdin out on the rest of us.  You better Chare that Charmin.  My butt hole is feelin the shortage of good TP...

 

JK.

 

I do agree with you about the safety position.  It's not our #1 concern on defense.  Far from it.  We have Hooker, Willis, Geathers, Odum, and now Blackmon to solidify the safety position.  And an improved DLine with Buck should make our DBs look even better.  But another CB is the highest on the priority list right now.  Unless Rhodes reverts back to his All-Pro form.  :thmup:

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On 5/26/2020 at 2:24 PM, twfish said:

I'm not, it echos what I've been saying. QB's don't throw his way and if they do they usually pay the price, just ask Rivers. But hey everyone wants him to be a strong safety.....

How many times do we need to see a TD pass with Hooker in the picture to realize he is not what he is made out to be.  Playoffs vs the Chiefs whee he did not suit up due to a leg injury or the glove tackle on Henry on our home turf?  Either this D is completely confused on coverage or Hooker's value is completely overvalued is yet to be seen but 2020 should be a tell all.

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17 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

I do agree with you about the safety position.  It's not our #1 concern on defense.  Far from it.  We have Hooker, Willis, Geathers, Odum, and now Blackmon to solidify the safety position.  And an improved DLine with Buck should make our DBs look even better.  But another CB is the highest on the priority list right now.  Unless Rhodes reverts back to his All-Pro form.  :thmup:

here's my thoughts on Safety.... Not a #1 concern, but it is a concern to an extent. A lot of unproven guys, projects, and comeback stories...

 

Free Safety

Hooker - I think he'll have a much better year. I don't blame the FO for not exercising the 5th year though. Gonna bet he does well, and gets resigned.

 

Strong Safety

Geathers is gone. Wouldn't be surprised to see him resigned though. 

 

Willis - He's a liability in coverage. I really don't like him for a pure Cover 2 safety. He's much better in the box or as a SS in a Cover 1 situation. 

 

 

Tweeners and Wildcards

Odum - Really never liked him at FS depth. I do like him as a SS or Big Nickel. Great on STs too. He did OK backing up Hooker during injury, but wouldn't want to rely on him for very long. He played Rover (S/LB hybrid) in college and doesn't really have the range or speed to be a FS. I'd probably prefer him as the second Cover 2 safety on passing downs over Willis.

 

Milligan - He's still a mystery to me. Raw guy that bounced around in college (closed UAB program). I don't see him

 

Donald Rutledge - long shot to make the 53

 

Blackmon - I think he'll end up being a SS when all is said and done. Came from a team that played almost all Man, and known for tackling a lot more than coverage or range. While I think he'd be a better #2 FS than Odum, I think he'd be a better #1 SS than Willis in a C2 defense. Only time will tell.

 

Tell - This is probably his make or break year at CB.Was a FS in college, but had the body and measurements of tall CB. Pure CB project.... Get's manhandled in press coverage though, so not sure he'll stick at CB. With the adds at CB this year (Rhodes, Carrie, Rogers, ++) I could see them moving him back to FS sooner than later.

 

 

If I had to predict what our DB depth chart will be towards the end of the year, or even next, I'd probably go with...

 

CB1 - Rock / Rhodes

CB2 - Rhodes / Rogers or Carrie

Nickel (traditional) - Moore / Carrie

FS - Hooker / Tell or Blackmon

SS - Blackmon / Willis

Big Nickel / Dime / Box - Odum or Wills

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12 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Careful.  That might make too much sense for the few that didn't like drafting Hooker and want him gone ASAP so that they can be "right" about him...  :funny:

What's happening now is the many who called him a steal when he was drafted are holding out hope that he is resigned so they can try to claim that they have not already been proven wrong.  I mean heck, after sticking around long enough and finding his narrow role, even Rob Morris turned out to be a decent player.

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The problem with having a less than versatile FS is that it kind of telegraphs what coverage we're playing when QBs see #29 in the game. So he has to be very good at that one thing, and it doesn't look like he's good enough.

 

If you say that QBs complete short patterns on us because of poor underneath players, then it seems like having talent at those positions is what it takes to have a great defense.  IOW, positional value matters.

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Yeah, one article isn't going to convince me Hooker doesn't need to improve or we need to move on. PFF, the same people who made this, gave him a grade of 69.5 ... I'd say there's still room for improvement or an upgrade if needed. Don't get the wrong idea, I'd always wish for a player to improve before sending him away, just stating that this doesn't change the fact that he has issues.

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Watching his one starting year at OSU, I would have been convinced that he would be a generational type safety in the NFL. Then the CFP semi happened. More to the point, an at the time still very underrated offensive game planning Clemson and its savvy quarterback Deshaun Watson happened, and Malik's inexperience and still undeveloped game had a big, shining light cast on them. I was much more concerned after that showing. What OSU and mostly lesser competition had been able to very successfully "hide" of his inexperience during the season, Clemson and Watson picked apart to an alarmingly embarrassing degree. What may have been even more alarming were the huge numbers during that offseason leading up to the draft who seemed to ignore it, and treat it almost as if it didn't even happen. Having seen these strange human behaviors, even among football professionals, for almost 5 decades now, I probably shouldn't be surprised anymore, but it still amazes me how so many can talk themselves into believing whatever they wish were true, instead of accepting what really is.

 

And in this case, what really was true was that Malik wasn't ready for an existence of every week facing sophisticated offenses that made even that advanced Clemson attack look like a plain vanilla cone. He should have returned for one more year of seasoning and development at OSU. Yes, even despite the eye popping athletic ability that allows him to at times make plays everyone else only dreams of.

 

That said, he should still have been able to develop into a top safety with 3 years of work on an NFL team, too. Even though he wasn't ready in 2017, he certainly should have been by now. But he'll get at least one more year here to do so. We can all speculate on the chances of someone doing in one year what he hasn't in so many more before, but regardless of that, he does have that opportunity. Let's see what happens.

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On 5/26/2020 at 1:20 PM, csmopar said:

A bit surprised to see Malik on there. 

Why are you surprised? Have you no confidence in PFF? lol Hold up. It took PFF to say what I and a few other fans have voiced "their opinion" on Malik Hooker for others to be critical against said MH?

 

Let it be known that I am the "Big Hooker fan" who wanted him signed before the start of the year. Book it! have you booked it? BOOK IT!

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On 5/26/2020 at 9:04 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

So.....that being said......the Colts do not want to pick up his 5th year option totally due injury history, his play or all of the above?  If what u say is true, then Ballard doesn't know what he is doing??

Hi there...remember me???? lol

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