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CR91

Leonard Ray Lewis Comparison

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5 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:


You know what was answered? The fact there wasn’t a murder.  The two friends of Lewis were acquitted and the deaths were ruled self defense.  This was decided by a jury of their peers in a few hours. There is nothing else there for him to be guilty of. He was charged with obstruction for lying to the police to protect his career. Those are facts.  
 

The big question tho is...why even go there?!?!   

But you know what wasn't answered?  What did he do with his clothes and why did he tell the other two to keep their mouths shut. 

Acquitted does not mean not guilty, all it means is he had very good lawyers. 

Think what you want and I will think what I want. 

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14 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

You talked crap about RAY but don't mention transgressions of others (ala Chad Kelly, whos currently on your team). Probably don't want to sign Hooker nor Leonard. Why am I not surprised.

Why do you bring up Kelly, Hooker and Leonard?

What did they have to do with Lewis?

I stated my opinion and why I had the opinion so what is it to you? 

 

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Part of what makes a player great over his career is longevity.  The rule of thumb I have always heard for HOF selection is 'a decade of dominance.'  Unless you really change the game, you have to have ~a decade of being an elite player to get in (an exception may be a guy like Megatron, because his combo of size, speed, power, hands, etc. in some ways revolutionized the game of football).

 

Leonard is certainly off to a good start.. and by a stats comparison, a better start than Lewis.  Lewis was not an all-pro (first or second team) as a rookie.  He was 2nd team in his 2nd and 3rd years, and again in 2010.  He was first team 7 times.

 

Leonard was a first team all pro as a rookie, which is very rare.  He was 2nd team in year 2, a year in which he missed 3+ games.  Leonard was the defensive rookie of the year (Simeon Rice got that award when Lewis was a rookie).  At the same points in their careers, Leonard has proven to be better at causing turnovers (his INT numbers are outstanding for a LBer)... but, he also plays in a different scheme and a different position (most of the time), so that's hard to really judge.

 

Lewis was a 2x NFL Defensive Player of the Year.  Leonard has not done that yet.  I don't doubt that he's capable of it, but he hasn't.  Lewis was a 2x Superbowl Champion and a 1x SB MVP, both things which Leonard hasn't accomplished.  Lewis was a 13x pro-bowler.. like Leonard, he missed out his rookie year.  Lewis is also on the 2000's all-decade team as the best at his position during that decade.

 

In terms of off-field stuff, Leonard seems to have less baggage than Lewis did at a young age.  That said, Lewis did seem to clean up his act after that alleged murder incident.  He also seems to be a pretty solid guy now and has several charities and does a lot for young minority communities.  

 

In terms of on-field leadership, Lewis was outstanding.  I don't know how long that took, as I don't follow Baltimore as intensely as I do Indy (i.e., was he a captain in his second year and a tremendous leader of men as a rookie? I don't know).  Leonard, was named team captain in his 2nd year, and he was a leader right out of the gates.  From all interviews and things I've read, his coaches and teammates view him as the leader of the Indy D and seemingly have after just a few games as a rookie -- that's rare.

 

In short, Leonard is off to a heckuva start to his career.... but, let's hold off on comparing him to a first-ballot HOFer.  If he keeps it up for another 8-12 years, this thread deserves to be revisited.

 

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Interesting thread @CR91!  :hat:

 

I think a better comparison might be Derrick Brooks due to the system and position he and Leonard play.  Brooks first two seasons starting all 16 games (his 2nd and 3rd season since I guess he didn't start all the games his rookie year), he had 278 tkls, 3 ints, 2 forced fumbles, and 1.5 sacks.

 

Leonard has better stats in his first two seasons than either Lewis or Brooks, but like @CurBeatElite said:

 

7 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

In short, Leonard is off to a heckuva start to his career.... but, let's hold off on comparing him to a first-ballot HOFer.  If he keeps it up for another 8-12 years, this thread deserves to be revisited.

 

Let's see if Leonard can keep it up for the next decade.  :goodluck:

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10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why do you bring up Kelly, Hooker and Leonard?

What did they have to do with Lewis?

I stated my opinion and why I had the opinion so what is it to you? 

 

The post was about NFL comparisons. Why do you have to be the NFL Police? Someone's past history has nothing to do with the understanding that this is Football topics/comparisons being discussed.

 

Even my rebuttal had to do more with football (not resigning Hooker or Leonard) was about football. Not about you going the extra mile to dig up dirt.

 

Classless.

 

"Oh but he ran a stop sign, hadn't paid parking tickets since '05, and cheated on his side chick in '99...." (What's all of this have to do with NFL comparisons of Leonard and Lewis)

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1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

The post was about NFL comparisons. Why do you have to be the NFL Police? Someone's past history has nothing to do with the understanding that this is Football topics/comparisons being discussed.

 

Even my rebuttal had to do more with football (not resigning Hooker or Leonard) was about football. Not about you going the extra mile to dig up dirt.

 

Classless.

 

"Oh but he ran a stop sign, hadn't paid parking tickets since '05, and cheated on his side chick in '99...." (What's all of this have to do with NFL comparisons of Leonard and Lewis)

I didn't dig up dirt, it was already there.

When you have baggage, you have to carry it where ever you go. 

Sorry, I don't make comments or statements to please you. 

If you don't like what I have to say it's your prerogative to move along. 

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9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Sorry, I don't make comments or statements to please you.

We know, we established that yesterday. Although, I'm sure it had been established well before that.

 

 

It is self fulfilling for you.

 

Which again, is pretty sad.

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1 minute ago, w87r said:

We know, we established that yesterday. Although, I'm sure it had been established well before that.

 

 

It is self fulfilling for you.

 

Which again, is pretty sad.

I will say to you the same thing.

If you don't like or care for my comments or opinions just pass them by.  

No one is forcing you to read or respond to them. 

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13 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

But you know what wasn't answered?  What did he do with his clothes and why did he tell the other two to keep their mouths shut. 

Acquitted does not mean not guilty, all it means is he had very good lawyers. 

Think what you want and I will think what I want. 

ac·quit

/əˈkwit/

Learn to pronounce

verb

past tense: acquitted; past participle: acquitted

1. 

free (someone) from a criminal charge by a verdict of not guilty.
 

It does mean not guilty.  However, Lewis was found guilty of obstruction.  The only one that was convicted.  The other two were acquitted with not as good lawyers by a jury of their peers bc it was self defense.  I’m sure Lewis threw his clothes away in an attempt to go along with the lie he didn’t know the other people and he wasn’t there.  He was punished for trying to protect his career and became a model professional after that.  Doesn’t make him a murderer...just a human being. 

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On 5/25/2020 at 8:05 AM, Cynjin said:

 

Stick around, you'll see way dumber comments then that one.

Yep.  Look for Leonard to come out with "guns a blazin'"!

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23 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

You talked crap about RAY but don't mention transgressions of others (ala Chad Kelly, whos currently on your team). Probably don't want to sign Hooker nor Leonard. Why am I not surprised.

Hahaha OK key board warrior it was joke but leave it to you to get offended for everyone else... also if you look at my picture on the profile you would see that it is hooker... so yeah I totally don’t want to see him re-signed... 

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Surprised to see that not many mentions Kuechly or Wagner as the best 'linebackers ever' conversation. 

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14 hours ago, rayski said:

Surprised to see that not many mentions Kuechly or Wagner as the best 'linebackers ever' conversation. 

Remember this LB.. Patrick Willis?

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14 hours ago, rayski said:

Surprised to see that not many mentions Kuechly or Wagner as the best 'linebackers ever' conversation. 

 

17 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Remember this LB.. Patrick Willis?

 

Give The Maniac time.

 

He'll eclipse erryone at his current pace.

 

tenor.gif

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On 5/28/2020 at 1:08 AM, Rackeen305 said:

Remember this LB.. Patrick Willis?

100% absolute beast, you could even make an argument for Bowman to be not in the top of all time but top of 2010s. However, not sure I'd say Willis was better than Kuechly or Wagner. Tough tough choice. :thinking:

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Trying to steer this back towards football...

 

I'm not sure you can directly compare the two in some respects as they played "different" positions. I wouldn't call Leonard a MLB, more a WLB in our base package , although he often slides across in nickel/dime packages. 

 

IIRC 2000 era Ravens was very much a 4-3 hybrid that allowed Lewis free reign to roam/seek/destroy. I'd argue he probably had more talent around him as well in that D, as well as it's successors (adding Ngata/Suggs!). 

 

I'll always have a soft spot for that Willis/Bowman/Smith/Smith era 49'ers D. I think they would have turned the Pats over too if they hadn't fumbled their chance against the Giants. Although that game did expose the limitations of that offense. 

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On 5/27/2020 at 2:32 AM, rayski said:

Surprised to see that not many mentions Kuechly or Wagner as the best 'linebackers ever' conversation. 

Best....   ever?      That’s a tall order for any player at any position.

 

But both would easily be on the best list for the 2010’s.    And that’s not a small thing.    Just saying...

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Best....   ever?      That’s a tall order for any player at any position.

 

But both would easily be on the best list for the 2010’s.    And that’s not a small thing.    Just saying...

 

I'd say it's harder to compare interior LBs across generations vs edge rushers as the changes to the game have had more impact on what is considered the "prototype" ILBers. Just my opinion of course.

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On 5/26/2020 at 10:13 AM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Interesting thread @CR91!  :hat:

 

I think a better comparison might be Derrick Brooks due to the system and position he and Leonard play.  Brooks first two seasons starting all 16 games (his 2nd and 3rd season since I guess he didn't start all the games his rookie year), he had 278 tkls, 3 ints, 2 forced fumbles, and 1.5 sacks.

 

Leonard has better stats in his first two seasons than either Lewis or Brooks, but like @CurBeatElite said:

 

 

Let's see if Leonard can keep it up for the next decade.  :goodluck:

I agree with the Brooks comparison.   We may have the Sapp type needed with Buckner.......

 

The question is with all the new rules on hits..... does this defense need a dominate SS like TB had?  
 

My gut says... yes

 

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Ray has a bloody white suit in his closet, two super bowl rings, eight all-pro selections and a Statue. Leonard has one all pro selection and a very high ceiling, lets get back to this question in 2030.

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