Most Underappreciated Colt

[BornHoosier]

5 minutes ago, jlid said:

Dear God, where to begin?

 

I'm not going to bet against Rivers playing every game, but having a solid backup for a 38 year old statue isn't the worst idea

 

The big one to me is thinking that releasing him means no cap hit whatsoever and everything he costs us currently goes straight to our cap room

 

I have to add i'm curious who the playmaker in the worst free agent class in recent memory (outside of QB) was sitting on his couch saying "Damn i wanna play for the Colts this year if only they had more cap space"

 

And the Patriots screwing us over? Other than beating us every time we play, that's a stretch...Mcdaniels did us the biggest favor ever, Reich is 10 times the coach he'll ever be...Vinny, despite a down year has been a staple of the team for over 10 years...Brissett, a below average starter, above average backup to be sure, but we got him for Philip Dorsett...big loss there

Lets start with common sense!

 

Phillip Rivers will cost us $25MIL in 2020 and with his Peyton like durability, why pay $9MIL for insurance? 

 

Releasing JB today will relieve anywhere from $6-8 MIL against our cap for 2020!

 

The one player I'd like to see sign that could make the Colts instant contenders (If they aren't already) is Jadeveon Clowney!!!  Especially since he could be had on a one yr deal at just $12MIL!  WHY pay a backup insurance option that will probably NEVER see the field at $8MIL vs a player that can make a serious impact for just peanuts more??

[jlid]

3 minutes ago, BornHoosier said:

Lets start with common sense!

 

Phillip Rivers will cost us $25MIL in 2020 and with his Peyton like durability, why pay $9MIL for insurance? 

 

Releasing JB today will relieve anywhere from $6-8 MIL against our cap for 2020!

 

The one player I'd like to see sign that could make the Colts instant contenders (If they aren't already) is Jadeveon Clowney!!!  Especially since he could be had on a one yr deal at just $12MIL!  WHY pay a backup insurance option that will probably NEVER see the field at $8MIL vs a player that can make a serious impact for just peanuts more??

Oh sweet! Clowney wants to come here for $12 million on one year. That's great news! After all, we don't have to release anybody to make that happen given we have close to $25 million in cap room. Your best argument would be what we could save in rollover room next year

[BornHoosier]

1 minute ago, jlid said:

Oh sweet! Clowney wants to come here for $12 million on one year. That's great news! After all, we don't have to release anybody to make that happen given we have close to $25 million in cap room. Your best argument would be what we could save in rollover room next year

From recent reports, Clowney may have to accept a prove it deal at around $10MIL so I sweetened the pot to make INDY attractive.  What's more disturbing is this kind of talent at a bargain price, why isn't this staff all in?  Oh I forgot, we don't want to take snaps away from our younger talent that is still learning the game!  Lewis is just another 2nd rd Ohio ST draft bust by Chris Ballard but he will give him every chance to succeed.  $12MIL is a steal over a backup bust or a 2nd rd bust.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, BornHoosier said:

Lets start with common sense!

 

Phillip Rivers will cost us $25MIL in 2020 and with his Peyton like durability, why pay $9MIL for insurance? 

 

Releasing JB today will relieve anywhere from $6-8 MIL against our cap for 2020!

 

The one player I'd like to see sign that could make the Colts instant contenders (If they aren't already) is Jadeveon Clowney!!!  Especially since he could be had on a one yr deal at just $12MIL!  WHY pay a backup insurance option that will probably NEVER see the field at $8MIL vs a player that can make a serious impact for just peanuts more??

If Ballard was interested in Clowney he don't have to cut Brissett. to make it happen.

 

[Jdubu]

8 hours ago, jlid said:

I'm not going to bet against Rivers playing every game, but having a solid backup for a 38 year old statue isn't the worst idea

 

The big one to me is thinking that releasing him means no cap hit whatsoever and everything he costs us currently goes straight to our cap room

If we cut JB tomorrow, who signs him and how much would you expect his contract becomes? If we do cut him, he saves us 8.8 million, correct? That’s a lot for a guy we don’t expect, nor want to see, get into the field.
 

If JB is on the field, we are either up by 30 with minutes to play or our season is screwed because JB has had to replace an injured Rivers. 

[WoolMagnet]

Waco

oh, you said COLT

[CR91]

14 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

From recent reports, Clowney may have to accept a prove it deal at around $10MIL so I sweetened the pot to make INDY attractive.  What's more disturbing is this kind of talent at a bargain price, why isn't this staff all in?  Oh I forgot, we don't want to take snaps away from our younger talent that is still learning the game!  Lewis is just another 2nd rd Ohio ST draft bust by Chris Ballard but he will give him every chance to succeed.  $12MIL is a steal over a backup bust or a 2nd rd bust.

 

You think Campbell is already a bust? Your patience is non-existent

[BornHoosier]

6 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

You think Campbell is already a bust? Your patience is non-existent

HAHA, my number one flaw is no patience CR91!  I love the kid's potential but 3 different injuries in one yr doesn't help with the confidence level and let alone the patience level.  He's def not a bust yet, but the label is being printed.

[CR91]

5 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

HAHA, my number one flaw is no patience CR91!  I love the kid's potential but 3 different injuries in one yr doesn't help with the confidence level and let alone the patience level.  He's def not a bust yet, but the label is being printed.

 

Injuries happen, but not every WR impacts the game as a rookie. Players need time to develop. Campbell was also underutilized with Brissett's inability to get him the ball. Even Hilton had a down year. 

[crazycolt1]

On 5/22/2020 at 8:30 AM, Jdubu said:

If we cut JB tomorrow, who signs him and how much would you expect his contract becomes? If we do cut him, he saves us 8.8 million, correct? That’s a lot for a guy we don’t expect, nor want to see, get into the field.
 

If JB is on the field, we are either up by 30 with minutes to play or our season is screwed because JB has had to replace an injured Rivers. 

Sorry, if Rivers does miss time due to injury I want to see Brissett over Eason or Kelly on the field. 

At this point that is what Ballard thinks too. 

Some keep bringing up the money like it's coming out of your pocket. At  this point we are not in bad cap space so what difference does it make? None. Next season we will be in great shape cap wise. Quit whining about money, Ballard has control of the situation. 

 

 

[coltsva]

Most under appreciated Colt has to be Alydar. If not for Affirmed he wins the Triple Crown. 
 

But seriously, I’ll go with Odum. Great depth, key Special Teams guy, and stays healthy.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Kenny Moore, anyone?

 

Dude is a swiss-army knife on defense.  Covers the slot, blitzes and makes plays in the backfield, helps cover the middle of the field, he does everything.  And he's a real team-first-guy.  Always there to celebrate a play with his teammates.

 

He's an undrafted, undersized, underappreciated gem.  Very glad he's a Colt, and very glad Ballard realized how valuable he is and paid the man last summer!  

[Jdubu]

33 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Sorry, if Rivers does miss time due to injury I want to see Brissett over Eason or Kelly on the field. 

At this point that is what Ballard thinks too. 

Some keep bringing up the money like it's coming out of your pocket. At  this point we are not in bad cap space so what difference does it make? None. Next season we will be in great shape cap wise. Quit whining about money, Ballard has control of the situation. 

 

 

More drivel from you. You are consistent if nothing else

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Jdubu said:

More drivel from you. You are consistent if nothing else

No one is twisting your arm to read or response to my comments is there?

[Jdubu]

11 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

HAHA, my number one flaw is no patience CR91!  I love the kid's potential but 3 different injuries in one yr doesn't help with the confidence level and let alone the patience level.  He's def not a bust yet, but the label is being printed.

A bust no, a rash of freak injuries, for sure. If he had a hammy injury 2-3 times already, I would be concerned. A hernia, and 2 different fractures in different spots don't concern me. Wr's who have lower body muscle injuries or joint issues would worry me a lot more. These injuries were out of his history character so I think we can wipe last year clean and move forward to see what receiver skills he has improved upon with study and lots of time.

[BornHoosier]

On 5/23/2020 at 4:07 AM, CR91 said:

 

Injuries happen, but not every WR impacts the game as a rookie. Players need time to develop. Campbell was also underutilized with Brissett's inability to get him the ball. Even Hilton had a down year. 

Check, check, check, check & check!  I'm pretty sure your a great chess player CR91 because that's CheckMate!

[BornHoosier]

On 5/23/2020 at 9:22 AM, Jdubu said:

A bust no, a rash of freak injuries, for sure. If he had a hammy injury 2-3 times already, I would be concerned. A hernia, and 2 different fractures in different spots don't concern me. Wr's who have lower body muscle injuries or joint issues would worry me a lot more. These injuries were out of his history character so I think we can wipe last year clean and move forward to see what receiver skills he has improved upon with study and lots of time.

How many injuries did he have total with THE Buckeyes vs in one NFL season?  Nobody can honestly answer his future without more data but the health of his 2020 season will be more of a tell all story!  I'm hoping for All Pro!

[BornHoosier]

59 minutes ago, BornHoosier said:

Wr's who have lower body muscle injuries or joint issues would worry me a lot more.

Yikes Scoob, I just seen a GHOST!!!!

[Krause9566]

Khari Willis 

 

Turn on some of the game film from the second half of the year and he pops out along with Bobby O.  Khari’s instincts are on another level that make up for him not being an elite athlete like hooker.  Players like Troy polomalu have become HOFers without being elite athletes.  Khari has been training on pure explosion all offseason so I expect big things from him this year.  And obviously not saying he’ll be Troy

[TheManiac53]

Kenny Moore. 

[BornHoosier]

1 hour ago, Krause9566 said:

Khari Willis 

 

Turn on some of the game film from the second half of the year and he pops out along with Bobby O.  Khari’s instincts are on another level that make up for him not being an elite athlete like hooker.  Players like Troy polomalu have become HOFers without being elite athletes.  Khari has been training on pure explosion all offseason so I expect big things from him this year.  And obviously not saying he’ll be Troy

Khari definitely looks the part to be a key piece to a Championship Team but will never reach Polomalu's level as football instincts made him superior!  The staff agrees with your thinking about Bobby O and recently listed him as a breakout star potential player for 2020! All we need to be successful is for both these players to just hold their own and become solid contributors but if either becomes a Star is a bonus that just may earn a trip to Tampa.

[BornHoosier]

On 5/23/2020 at 8:43 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Sorry, if Rivers does miss time due to injury I want to see Brissett over Eason or Kelly on the field. 

At this point that is what Ballard thinks too. 

Some keep bringing up the money like it's coming out of your pocket. At  this point we are not in bad cap space so what difference does it make? None. Next season we will be in great shape cap wise. Quit whining about money, Ballard has control of the situation. 

 

 

Hello Crazy, let me remind you that Rivers hasn't missed a start since 2006 and currently is on a 224 game start streak!  With the Colts possessing arguably a top 5 line, where does it make sense to spend 9 MIL that will never see the field?  Why spend 9 MIL that NEVER delivers the THRILL?  Lets cut Brissett and sign Clowney!

[LockeDown]

Braden Smith. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

Hello Crazy, let me remind you that Rivers hasn't missed a start since 2006 and currently is on a 224 game start streak!  With the Colts possessing arguably a top 5 line, where does it make sense to spend 9 MIL that will never see the field?  Why spend 9 MIL that NEVER delivers the THRILL?  Lets cut Brissett and sign Clowney!

We have enough money to sign Clowney and keep Brissett. Brissett is even off the books after this season.

[BornHoosier]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We have enough money to sign Clowney and keep Brissett. Brissett is even off the books after this season.

Okay, lets sign Clowney, cut Brissett and trade for Adams?  Do we have enough money to keep Brissett and add these two playmakers?  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, BornHoosier said:

Okay, lets sign Clowney, cut Brissett and trade for Adams?  Do we have enough money to keep Brissett and add these two playmakers?  

Won't work unless I am mistaken because even if we cut Brissett we still have to pay him most of his salary. We can sign Clowney though with Brissett on the team.

[HectorRoberts]

Hooker!! Hands down he in my opinion is the best player on our defense. I know his stats were down this year but his presence is definitely felt when he is on the field. Yet people around here want him gone. 

[James]

On 5/22/2020 at 2:09 AM, NewColtsFan said:

The metrics says he should barely be our RT. 

 

 

I haven't seen those at all. Like another person says, please show them/link them.

[NewColtsFan]

58 minutes ago, James said:

 

I haven't seen those at all. Like another person says, please show them/link them.

 

Not sure if you saw my response to someone else who asked about that.

 

Smith played guard, in part because his arms are too short for tackle on the NFL level for most teams.   I think he's 32 1/4 or 32 1/2.    Most teams prefer 33 1/4 at a minimum if not longer.   That's the metric I'm talking about.     Ballard has talked about it often since drafting Smith.

 

He was a guard when he got forced into starting at RT.   Ballard admits he didn't think Smith could play tackle effectively at this level.   The scouts insisted he could.   Eventually, Ballard was running out of options and thought he didn't have much to lose.    Smith started,  did well, and we've never looked back.

 

I'll try to find his Combine Profile page....    And here you go...   you can see the page shows arms measured at 32 1/4.    Minimum desired as at least one full inch longer...

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/braden-smith/3219534d-4908-0765-f244-89a603c3a555

 

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, Krause9566 said:

Khari Willis 

 

Turn on some of the game film from the second half of the year and he pops out along with Bobby O.  Khari’s instincts are on another level that make up for him not being an elite athlete like hooker.  Players like Troy polomalu have become HOFers without being elite athletes.  Khari has been training on pure explosion all offseason so I expect big things from him this year.  And obviously not saying he’ll be Troy

His explosion is fine, it's his coverage that stinks. I really hope he practiced more on coverage than explosion. He's already great explosion vs the run, and has an awesome nose for the ball in that aspect.

 

Oke is just the opposite. Stinks on the inside vs the run, but does well in coverage. He's much better vs the run when playing on the outside in space.

[Krause9566]

5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

His explosion is fine, it's his coverage that stinks. I really hope he practiced more on coverage than explosion. He's already great explosion vs the run, and has an awesome nose for the ball in that aspect.

 

Oke is just the opposite. Stinks on the inside vs the run, but does well in coverage. He's much better vs the run when playing on the outside in space.

I agree that his mental processing and zone awareness doesn’t need some improvement but his explosiveness does need improvement no question.  He had I think a 1.65 10 yard split with is linebacker level. 

Explosiveness can close the gap in a fraction slow of play recognition.  Ideally he will improve both simultaneously . 

[braveheartcolt]

Austin Collie for me....

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Krause9566 said:

I agree that his mental processing and zone awareness doesn’t need some improvement but his explosiveness does need improvement no question.  He had I think a 1.65 10 yard split with is linebacker level. 

Explosiveness can close the gap in a fraction slow of play recognition.  Ideally he will improve both simultaneously . 

IMO, Ledyard nailed his review on Willis. I've bolded some items, and red bolded the basic just of the review. There's a lot to like vs the run and shallow box coverage, but a lot not to like in coverage.... And I don't think explosive improvement is going to help a whole bunch in those areas. Lists his worst trait as "zone coverage" lol... 

 

Quote

 

Range - Awesome range working top-down on the ball from deep coverage, triggering fast and closing with elite burst. Doesn’t show much of that in coverage however, working much better in tight quarters. Instincts and processing aren’t good enough to play as fast as his tools suggest he could. 

 

Ball Skills - Dropped a couple of tough interceptions on low throws he nearly dug out in man coverage. Doesn’t have the instincts or ball skills to make a lot of splash plays in zone coverage. Three interceptions at Michigan State were mostly gifts.

 

Man Coverage - Locked down Michigan and Penn State’s tight ends with terrific physicality and technique. Good body control and stays in phase against bigger, less explosive targets. More mixed results against quicker, speedier slots. Little hip tightness shows up and he can’t make up lost ground off the line of scrimmage. Can get a little grabby in order to stay in position if he falls behind on vertical routes. 

 

Fluidity/Agility - Plays on the balls of his feet and can side shuffle quickly to change his angle when under control. When moving at full speed, can’t bend his angle on the move and must throttle down again to change direction smoothly.

 

Tackling - Occasionally gets a little overaggressive and can slide off stops, but vast majority of the time he breaks down wonderfully in space and makes sure tackles even when he has to go outside his frame. Strength and length get runners on the ground 1v1. Flashes of hitting power, but needs to come into stops a little more leveraged. Closing burst to eliminate space is eye-popping.

 

Run Defense - Really strong run defender from around the line of scrimmage or coming from deep. Mostly good fills to run the alley on the perimeter, needs to keep his angles sound at all times. Intense and physical in his demeanor, sorts through trash to find the football. Quick to key-and-diagnose and get downhill. Reliable last line of defense, bringing the fight to ball carriers and not letting himself get caught flat-footed in space. 

 

Route Recognition - At his best when his role is kept simple, as in man coverage rules. Doesn’t process route combinations well and can be caught in no man’s land in deep zone coverage. Will bite on play action and needs to be more disciplined with his eyes and processing. 

 

Versatility - I wouldn’t play him deep at all in the NFL. Pseudo-linebacker, dime safety who matches up with tight ends in the slot and can play the run in the box with size and mental processing.

 

Competitive Toughness - Elite competitor with sterling football character. Work ethic and leadership, both vocal and by example, are off the charts. Physical with a hot motor in all phases of the game, often chirping after the play. 

 

Athleticism/Size - Stocky safety with a pro-ready build at 213 pounds. Solid long speed for the position with a little explosiveness out of the blocks. Jumps were poor at the Combine and agilities likely would not have been great.

 

BEST TRAIT - Tackling

WORST TRAIT - Zone Coverage

RED FLAGS - None

 

A high-character safety who plays a physical brand of football, Willis is a limited deep safety who won’t create splash plays or erase vertical routes with his range and instincts. Instead, he’s at his best around the line of scrimmage against the run or as a big slot defender matching up with tight ends in man coverage. Willis can help an NFL team as a third safety and special teams star right away, but his upside is limited.

 

Round Grade: Early 4th

 

 

[chad72]

30 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Austin Collie for me....

 

He is definitely very well appreciated, IMO, and is in the category of "what could have been if not for his injuries". 

 

I'd have to say T.Y.Hilton because the team is instantly different when he is not on the field on offense, and he opens up so many things w.r.t the run game and for other wide outs.

[superrep1967]

To me it’s Anthony Walker but he may not even be a starter this year. 

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

To me it’s Anthony Walker but he may not even be a starter this year. 

I'd bet a decent amount he'll start. IMO, LB will be status quo this year (same as last). Leonard will get near 100% of snaps at WILL, Walker will be a early/run down MIKE, and Oke will be the passing/3rd down MIKE and play the few SAM snaps when we have 3 LBs on the field.

 

I love the way they use Walker and Oke together. Great bang for the buck. I'd like to see Speed emerge a bit this year, and become an adequate backup at WILL so Leonard doesn't have to stay on the field 100% of the time.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 5/29/2020 at 1:59 PM, braveheartcolt said:

Austin Collie for me....

Nah Brandon Stokley.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Nah Brandon Stokley.

Ken Dilger 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Ken Dilger 

Chris Hinton

[BornHoosier]

On 5/29/2020 at 2:32 PM, EastStreet said:

IMO, Ledyard nailed his review on Willis. I've bolded some items, and red bolded the basic just of the review. There's a lot to like vs the run and shallow box coverage, but a lot not to like in coverage.... And I don't think explosive improvement is going to help a whole bunch in those areas. Lists his worst trait as "zone coverage" lol... 

 

 

I agree with this assessment of Willis but why does the Staff continue to believe he is the future?  It's clear to me that his strength is at the LOS and anything else he doesn't have the athleticism to compete.  This analysis came after just a rookie season, lets see if this kid shows us all wrong!