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CR91

Most Underappreciated Colt

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Walker and Mack come to mind right away, but imo it's Braden Smith. Anytime the colts line gets mentioned, it's always Nelson, AC, then Kelly and rightfully so, but Smith is just as valuable imo. He has been an absolute stalwart on the right side and I'm completely confidence he'll be our LT once AC decides to retire.

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2 hours ago, CR91 said:

Walker and Mack come to mind right away, but imo it's Braden Smith. Anytime the colts line gets mentioned, it's always Nelson, AC, then Kelly and rightfully so, but Smith is just as valuable imo. He has been an absolute stalwart on the right side and I'm completely confidence he'll be our LT once AC decides to retire.

I’d be willing to take that bet. I don’t think there is any way he is suited for the left side. I may end up being wrong but if I’m wagering a beverage on it, I’d feel good about getting a free drink :yahoo:

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Anthony Walker is a huge piece that is very undervalued. He really puts up some great numbers year in and out and reliable and intelligent. Unfortunately he is in Leonard's shadow. 

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7 hours ago, CR91 said:

Walker and Mack come to mind right away, but imo it's Braden Smith. Anytime the colts line gets mentioned, it's always Nelson, AC, then Kelly and rightfully so, but Smith is just as valuable imo. He has been an absolute stalwart on the right side and I'm completely confidence he'll be our LT once AC decides to retire.

I dont think he'll replace AC, but I do think he's underappreciated 

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I'd say Kenny moore, jack doyle, Ryan kelly. All have been here for years and have produced without all the recognition.  That said Walker is definitely on my list as well, same for Hines...

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In a way, I feel like it could be Brissett.  I know, he didn't play really well down the stretch last year, but he was hurt (and so were 1/2 of his WRs).  He didn't ask for Luck to retire, or to be thrust into the spotlight, but he was managing things pretty well before he got hurt.  And then Hoyer was horrible.  And now they've signed the guy to start in front of him for the short term, and drafted the guy to start in front of him for the long term.  Don't get me wrong, I like both of those moves, and he probably won't be on the roster at season's end. But I think it's a bit underappreciated how classy & professional he's been through it all.

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1 hour ago, twfish said:

Anthony Walker is a huge piece that is very undervalued. He really puts up some great numbers year in and out and reliable and intelligent. Unfortunately he is in Leonard's shadow. 

 

 The "Pat Angerer" of our D.

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9 hours ago, CR91 said:

Walker and Mack come to mind right away, but imo it's Braden Smith. Anytime the colts line gets mentioned, it's always Nelson, AC, then Kelly and rightfully so, but Smith is just as valuable imo. He has been an absolute stalwart on the right side and I'm completely confidence he'll be our LT once AC decides to retire.

 

 Smith gave up 8 sacks and graded like 44th as a pass blocker.

Keep it real. Nothing valuable about that. He gets beat off the snap often.

Excellent run blocker, he would likely grade better pass blocking as a guard.
 So if he lacks the foot quickness as a RT, i would think it would look worse at LT. 
Makes sense to me anyway.
  Justin Houston is a Dawg. He has several more years of high quality FB in him.

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Kelly comes to mind, and knowing that lot's of you don't agree Hooker. 

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My vote for right now is Smith. We’ve seen first hand how much the line changes when Kelly is out. AC has been our longtime franchise LT and everyone and their mother mentions Nelson first when talking bout the Colts OL. I think quite a few people forget that Smith came in the same draft. 
 

I foresee my vote changing to Rock in the future. Last 8 games or so he was very solid and really playing well. But he’s constantly getting roasted on other Colts pages such as FB. Too many people just bring up his rough start as if they didn’t watch the 2nd half. 

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I feel it’s Walker. He gets overshadowed a lot by the other linebackers, but his leadership and personality has really helped in the development of our defense. Walker was huge for Leonard during his rookie year. 

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40 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Smith gave up 8 sacks and graded like 44th as a pass blocker.

Keep it real. Nothing valuable about that. He gets beat off the snap often.

Excellent run blocker, he would likely grade better pass blocking as a guard.
 So if he lacks the foot quickness as a RT, i would think it would look worse at LT. 
Makes sense to me anyway.
  Justin Houston is a Dawg. He has several more years of high quality FB in him.

 

Where did you get that info?

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1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

Smith gave up 8 sacks and graded like 44th as a pass blocker.

Graded 44th by who?

 

PFF put Smith as the 92nd best player in the NFL last season - from ALL positions.

They ranked him as the 7th best tackle overall, and 4th best right tackle last season.

Also, they have him listed as giving up 7 sacks, which is tied for 9th place.

 

Those seem like solid evaluation data points to me. He's the real deal.

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going by just last year i will say Houston.  he had one of the least talked about 10 sack seasons ive seen

 

so many people would rather talk about young players and  guys we drafted like turay

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Easily Walker for me, he's a real producer and definitely lives in The Maniacs shadow. Then yeah, probably Smith after that.

 

Also Hines. It's not that he doesn't get love, he does, but I still think sometimes I don't appreciate how solid he's been on the outside, catching balls out of the backfield, and helping on ST.

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4 hours ago, TonyBungee said:

In a way, I feel like it could be Brissett.  I know, he didn't play really well down the stretch last year, but he was hurt (and so were 1/2 of his WRs).  He didn't ask for Luck to retire, or to be thrust into the spotlight, but he was managing things pretty well before he got hurt.  And then Hoyer was horrible.  And now they've signed the guy to start in front of him for the short term, and drafted the guy to start in front of him for the long term.  Don't get me wrong, I like both of those moves, and he probably won't be on the roster at season's end. But I think it's a bit underappreciated how classy & professional he's been through it all.

Unappreciated? I’d say over valued. He is being paid like a starter and when 31 of the 32 teams would have already cut him by now, for some reason, CB refuses to let him leave. He is being paid about 3-4 times what the next back up is making and 10X what most back ups are making. That’s not unappreciated to me. I call it cap/cash madness. 
 

we tried him, we paid him well for that attempt. He failed bad enough that the team went out and paid a 38 y/o 25 million and drafted a potential replacement QB this year. It’s time to let his arm go somewhere else. 

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3 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

CB refuses to let him leave. He is being paid about 3-4 times what the next back up is making and 10X what most back ups are making. That’s not unappreciated to me. I call it cap/cash madness. 

You cant take his whole cap number into consideration in regards to keep him at this point.

 

$13m is guaranteed and gone whethet he is hete or not.

 

Only number that matters is $8.8m. That is the amount we could save by releasing him.

 

There are plenty of backups that are close to that number.

 

So unless we need the cap space,(we don't) there is no reason at this point to not keep him.

 

If we we're to telease him, I imagine they would bring in another vet backup also, so that takes away from the potential $8.8m savings.

 

 

Regardless what anyone thinks. He is 1 of the best backups in the league and in a year of uncertainty of offseason programs/season, it makes sense to keep a great teammate that knows the system around. Especially when you factor in it only being $8.8m in relative cap space. The cost of a good backup.

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6 minutes ago, w87r said:

You cant take his whole cap number into consideration in regards to keep him at this point.

 

$13m is guaranteed and gone whethet he is hete or not.

 

Only number that matters is $8.8m. That is the amount we could save by releasing him.

 

There are plenty of backups that are close to that number.

 

So unless we need the cap space,(we don't) there is no reason at this point to not keep him.

 

If we we're to telease him, I imagine they would bring in another vet backup also, so that takes away from the potential $8.8m savings.

 

 

Regardless what anyone thinks. He is 1 of the best backups in the league and in a year of uncertainty of offseason programs/season, it makes sense to keep a great teammate that knows the system around. Especially when you factor in it only being $8.8m in relative cap space. The cost of a good backup.

Idk, If we are gambling by taking a 38 year old QB, one that has no injury history or missing games, I say we continue the gamble. We use Kelly and Eason as back ups and let the chips fall where they may. I’d rather use that 8 million and add a little to acquire Clowney or something like that. Maybe even use that space to renew our Center. Better uses than having it in a back up QB that has no future here imho. 

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Malik Hooker. He hasn't been appreciated by Colts fans base at ever since he was drafted. Based on what i've seen. I even got "suspended" on this forum for asking fans to put respect on Malik Hooker's name. He has given this organization everything he's got and hasn't complained one sec. No off field drama, no nothing. When it's time for him to get paid, the response is the same as the following reactions. 5-4-3-2-1... lol

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32 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

I say we continue the gamble.

Honestly, please share how prepared for QB injury the Colts have been over the last 10 years. Manning through Luck. 

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1 hour ago, Jdubu said:

Idk, If we are gambling by taking a 38 year old QB, one that has no injury history or missing games, I say we continue the gamble. We use Kelly and Eason as back ups and let the chips fall where they may. I’d rather use that 8 million and add a little to acquire Clowney or something like that. Maybe even use that space to renew our Center. Better uses than having it in a back up QB that has no future here imho. 

That's the part I can agree with.

 

If we we're to/want to sign Clowney and need some funds, then it might make a little sense.

 

It is just nice to have a backup capable of winning if called upon.

 

The $8.8m could be carried over to next year as well.

 

At this point though, I think Brissett is worth the $8.8m to have his knowledge of system and being able to step in. Is he worth the $21m total cap hit? No, but that number is irrelevant. Only number that matters is that $8.8m.

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2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Honestly, please share how prepared for QB injury the Colts have been over the last 10 years. Manning through Luck. 

I just am one who has very little faith in JB as our back up QB to win us any games and for an additional 8.8 million to boot, I’d rather just acknowledge that the new era of either Kelly or Eason is upon us. Outside of JB being able to take a hit and harder to bring down from the pocket, everything else with JB is poor to barely avg imho. 

2 hours ago, w87r said:

That's the part I can agree with.

 

If we we're to/want to sign Clowney and need some funds, then it might make a little sense.

 

It is just nice to have a backup capable of winning if called upon.

 

The $8.8m could be carried over to next year as well.

 

At this point though, I think Brissett is worth the $8.8m to have his knowledge of system and being able to step in. Is he worth the $21m total cap hit? No, but that number is irrelevant. Only number that matters is that $8.8m.

I understand the number is all relative at this point and that he has knowledge of the system. Still makes me no difference as we also have knowledge of JB not being very good with having knowledge of the system. I would definitely rather put that 8.8 million into any player that has an immediate impact on the team this season or into future years in a contract of one of the current players we want to extend. 
 

but trust me, I get your point and I see your side. Your argument, and the others who like JB, are certainly understood. I just find such a small value in JB that I have no excitement for him whatsoever. 

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Won’t be a popular choice but I’ll go with Nelson and Buckner.

 

While Nelson is highly thought of, I still think people underestimate the impact he has on the team.

He’s a beast and he changes the whole look of the team. The Colts used to be viewed as a finesse/soft team and now they are among the best in the league. Add Buckner to the list because I think people don’t understand the Nelson like impact he’ll bring to the D line. It was a high cost so people are questioning the trade but he’ll be a popular jersey by the end of the year. 

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17 hours ago, CR91 said:

Walker and Mack come to mind right away, but imo it's Braden Smith. Anytime the colts line gets mentioned, it's always Nelson, AC, then Kelly and rightfully so, but Smith is just as valuable imo. He has been an absolute stalwart on the right side and I'm completely confidence he'll be our LT once AC decides to retire.

 

If Smith is our LT for more than a season, I'll be hugely disappointed in Ballard and his staff.

 

The metrics says he should barely be our RT.    The two sides are not interchangeable.

 

He might be a stop-gap,  but the perminent replacement?    Please, God, I hope not.

 

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21 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

I just am one who has very little faith in JB as our back up QB to win us any games and for an additional 8.8 million to boot, I’d rather just acknowledge that the new era of either Kelly or Eason is upon us. Outside of JB being able to take a hit and harder to bring down from the pocket, everything else with JB is poor to barely avg imho. 

I understand the number is all relative at this point and that he has knowledge of the system. Still makes me no difference as we also have knowledge of JB not being very good with having knowledge of the system. I would definitely rather put that 8.8 million into any player that has an immediate impact on the team this season or into future years in a contract of one of the current players we want to extend. 
 

but trust me, I get your point and I see your side. Your argument, and the others who like JB, are certainly understood. I just find such a small value in JB that I have no excitement for him whatsoever. 

Tbh, I'm not really a big JB guy.

 

I wouldn't mind if we decided to move on.

 

I won't be upset if he stays either though.

 

I agree that money could be used in other areas, but if Rivers did get hurt it would be nice to have JB to fall back on.

 

If we could clear the whole $21m then that's easy. Again at $8.8m, you have Mariota making $7.5m, Dalton $7m. I know there is more but those two stick out as comps. Its just not as bad. Actually its right where you expect one of the top backups to be paid.

 

Appreciate your opinion on the matter.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, w87r said:

Tbh, I'm not really a big JB guy.

 

I wouldn't mind if we decided to move on.

 

I won't be upset if he stays either though.

 

I agree that money could be used in other areas, but if Rivers did get hurt it would be nice to have JB to fall back on.

 

If we could clear the whole $21m then that's easy. Again at $8.8m, you have Mariota making $7.5m, Dalton $7m. I know there is more but those two stick out as comps. Its just not as bad. Actually its right where you expect one of the top backups to be paid.

 

Appreciate your opinion on the matter.

 

 

Yeah we are pretty close on this post as well. I am not going be complaining that we kept him during the season. If we decide to keep him, we do, it’s not the worse decision a team could make. 
 

thanks for the respectful debate. Rarely happens here anymore. Take it easy. 

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5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The two sides are not interchangeable.

 

He might be a stop-gap,  but the perminent replacement?

I'm with you here. I don't see him moving to LT and being super effective.

 

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The metrics says he should barely be our RT.

But this take sounds worthy of ridicule. He's an excellent RT. Show us the metrics you are referring to.

 

My post above, in this thread, cites metrics directly opposed to your opinion.

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18 hours ago, CR91 said:

Walker and Mack come to mind right away, but imo it's Braden Smith. Anytime the colts line gets mentioned, it's always Nelson, AC, then Kelly and rightfully so, but Smith is just as valuable imo. He has been an absolute stalwart on the right side and I'm completely confidence he'll be our LT once AC decides to retire.

 

That's  NOT good news to whoever are QB's are.

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It has to be Brissett.  After all,  his locker room presence has to be good for at least seven wins, yes?

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3 hours ago, w87r said:

That's the part I can agree with.

 

If we we're to/want to sign Clowney and need some funds, then it might make a little sense.

 

It is just nice to have a backup capable of winning if called upon.

 

The $8.8m could be carried over to next year as well.

 

At this point though, I think Brissett is worth the $8.8m to have his knowledge of system and being able to step in. Is he worth the $21m total cap hit? No, but that number is irrelevant. Only number that matters is that $8.8m.

It makes no sense to pay $9 mil for a backup qb when you have Phillip Rivers as your qb?  He is as durable as Peyton Manning was and with this OL protecting him I will bet the farm he will start every game in 2020!  Add in another $10 plus mil to his overall cap hit and I'm quite astonished this championship staff went this route instead of spending $20 Mil on another Playmaker that will actually make a difference this yr!  AGAIN, the Patriots continue to screw over this organization & I just don't get why we continue to let this happen.  McDaniels, Vinny, Brissett, ETC...  Please NO MORE Patriot Games!!!

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1 hour ago, Dogg63 said:

I'm with you here. I don't see him moving to LT and being super effective.

 

But this take sounds worthy of ridicule. He's an excellent RT. Show us the metrics you are referring to.

 

My post above, in this thread, cites metrics directly opposed to your opinion.

Remember...   Smith was drafted to be a guard.   Smith played one game at tackle in college.  Everything else was at guard.   Ballard has told thus story about Smith several times.   Ballard thought Smith was a guard — period.  He had to be talked into using Smith at right tackle by his scouts and top personnel people.  He kept saying no,  they kept insisting yes!   Finally, Ballard realized his options were running out and he reluctantly said ok.

 

And it worked out.  Ballard is a measurements guy.   Smith's arms measured 32 and a half.  Most teams want a minimum of 33 and a half. 
But, Smith is succeeding in spite of his short arms.  Good for him, great for us.  
This is the metric I’m talking about. 

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5 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Malik Hooker. He hasn't been appreciated by Colts fans base at ever since he was drafted. Based on what i've seen. I even got "suspended" on this forum for asking fans to put respect on Malik Hooker's name. He has given this organization everything he's got and hasn't complained one sec. No off field drama, no nothing. When it's time for him to get paid, the response is the same as the following reactions. 5-4-3-2-1... lol

truth! he has been constantly crapped on since he was drafted 

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2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

If Smith is our LT for more than a season, I'll be hugely disappointed in Ballard and his staff.

 

The metrics says he should barely be our RT.    The two sides are not interchangeable.

 

He might be a stop-gap,  but the perminent replacement?    Please, God, I hope not.

 

 

Why? He's graded as one of the best young Ts the past two years. We should count ourselves lucky we were able to play him at T when he was supposed to be a G. Not a lot of players can make that jump. Look at how bad Mewhort failed at T.

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13 hours ago, TonyBungee said:

In a way, I feel like it could be Brissett.  I know, he didn't play really well down the stretch last year, but he was hurt (and so were 1/2 of his WRs).  He didn't ask for Luck to retire, or to be thrust into the spotlight, but he was managing things pretty well before he got hurt.  And then Hoyer was horrible.  And now they've signed the guy to start in front of him for the short term, and drafted the guy to start in front of him for the long term.  Don't get me wrong, I like both of those moves, and he probably won't be on the roster at season's end. But I think it's a bit underappreciated how classy & professional he's been through it all.


To quote Don Draper when Peggy complained about recognition....”that’s what the money is for.”


No way JB is under appreciated. He got $28M because Luck retired...and tons of praise from the FO and coaching staff. 

 

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3 hours ago, w87r said:

Tbh, I'm not really a big JB guy.

 

I wouldn't mind if we decided to move on.

 

I won't be upset if he stays either though.

 

I agree that money could be used in other areas, but if Rivers did get hurt it would be nice to have JB to fall back on.

 

If we could clear the whole $21m then that's easy. Again at $8.8m, you have Mariota making $7.5m, Dalton $7m. I know there is more but those two stick out as comps. Its just not as bad. Actually its right where you expect one of the top backups to be paid.

 

Appreciate your opinion on the matter.

 

 


Dalton’s contract as a backup is $3M. He only gets to $7M with incentives that are very unlikely to be reached (assuming Dak re-signs). 

 

Winston got $1.1M.

 

Mariota’s contract appears to be set up for him to take the starting job (at least as a stopgap)...as they are unsure of Carr. The Colts are definitely not unsure about their QB position.

 

The JB deal just is what it is at this point...a bad deal. But it’s water under the bridge.

 

 

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1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Why? He's graded as one of the best young Ts the past two years. We should count ourselves lucky we were able to play him at T when he was supposed to be a G. Not a lot of players can make that jump. Look at how bad Mewhort failed at T.

 

Why?    Just because someone is good at the right side,  doesn't mean he'll also be good on the left side.

 

I'm expecting Ballard to spent a 1 or a 2 on a future Left Tackle either in the 21 draft,  or the 22 draft to eventually replace Castanzo.

 

I love Smith.   Glad we have him.   Glad he's our very good Right Tackle.    I just don't make the jump that he can also be our very good Left Tackle.    And, as I often like to say,  I'd rather be wrong and have it be good for the Colts, than be right and have it be bad for the Colts.   So, I'd rather be wrong and have Smith be a great left tackle than be right and have him be an OK left tackle.

 

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3 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

It makes no sense to pay $9 mil for a backup qb when you have Phillip Rivers as your qb?  He is as durable as Peyton Manning was and with this OL protecting him I will bet the farm he will start every game in 2020!  Add in another $10 plus mil to his overall cap hit and I'm quite astonished this championship staff went this route instead of spending $20 Mil on another Playmaker that will actually make a difference this yr!  AGAIN, the Patriots continue to screw over this organization & I just don't get why we continue to let this happen.  McDaniels, Vinny, Brissett, ETC...  Please NO MORE Patriot Games!!!

Dear God, where to begin?

 

I'm not going to bet against Rivers playing every game, but having a solid backup for a 38 year old statue isn't the worst idea

 

The big one to me is thinking that releasing him means no cap hit whatsoever and everything he costs us currently goes straight to our cap room

 

I have to add i'm curious who the playmaker in the worst free agent class in recent memory (outside of QB) was sitting on his couch saying "Damn i wanna play for the Colts this year if only they had more cap space"

 

And the Patriots screwing us over? Other than beating us every time we play, that's a stretch...Mcdaniels did us the biggest favor ever, Reich is 10 times the coach he'll ever be...Vinny, despite a down year has been a staple of the team for over 10 years...Brissett, a below average starter, above average backup to be sure, but we got him for Philip Dorsett...big loss there

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Hands down Walker for me. Not only does he not get the respect and appreciation for being a very productive tackle machine (100+ the last 2 years) vs the run, many have suggested that he should be fully replaced by Oke (who struggles big time vs the run in the middle)...... He'll never be a 3 down All Pro LB, but he's a fantastic 2 down LB.

 

 

LOL with all the talk about Smith being a LT... He's underappreciated, but he's not LT material. 

 

Rock was also underappreciated last year. He was thrown immediately in the deep in, and his second half PFF rating was top 10 at CB

 

 

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    • I wouldn't go that far.....  
    • And I do respect and support it, doesn't mean I have to understand it because we have to face the fact that we can't isolate ourselves for months or years and that we can't avoid the risk of getting infected. Regardless of whether you are going to the supermarket or meeting with your family there are things you have to do and there is no 100% safety out there. You said it yourself: So many opportunities to get infected. Not only on the field or the football bubble but in real life that we simply can't avoid.    And If Joe Nobody can go to the office every day I think a football player can go on the field. And as I mentioned a football field is a much safer environment than an office with tests on a regular basis it's probably one of the safest places especially if they play the games without spectators. They say that it takes at least 15 minutes of realy close contact to an infected person to infect yourself in a closed room. And there are a lot of measures to minimize the risk like a max number of people in the training room etc. And yes Corona is a serious virus I don't doubt that but it's not the killer virus that is threatening to exterminate humanity. What we are facing now and that is noboby talking about is that we are dying a slow and steady economic and social death! But thats just my two cents.
    • First, I’m not sure it’s known just how much time you have to be near an infected to actually become infected yourself.      Second,  think of football this way...  every huddle, and there roughly 65-70 of them each side, each game is an opportunity.  Each play and tackle is an opportunity.   Every time a player goes in the team complex is an opportunity.   Every time you’re in the locker room, the weight room, the team meeting room, the positional meeting room, you name it, they are all opportunities.    There are so many different opportunities to get infected.     Plus, you talk about young people...   those people have their entire career in front of them.  The longer this drags out the more we learn that we don’t know as much as we thought we did.  That even when you’re Covid free many still report issues with their heart and lungs.  That’s not good for anyone,  especially athletes.  Young athletes are trying to protect their careers.    These decisions are complex, but you have to respect and support every decision,  no matter which way it goes. 
    • I respect there decision but don't understand it. Why? Athletes get tested on a regular basis, they can wear helmets with a faceshield, we know that u need to spend considerable time very close to a infected person to get infected yourself and they play outside where the risk isn't that big anyway. So athletes are probably the most safe persons in this pandemic. If others can do their daily work athletes can do it too. 
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