Offensive Line and Rando Roster Thoughts

[Scott Pennock]

Rivers said the oline was an important factor in his choice to play here.....which Ballard made a priority and in one year turned it into a championship caliber line.

 

I saw this little nugget the other day and it kinda drummed up some thoughts about how our oline was constructed and some other tidbits. 

 

Perhaps because he played in the MAC nobody cared, but, he played well in his all-star game, blew up the combine and was rated as the 2nd best tackle in the country last year. 2 years removed from being a TE....

 

Pinter was rated a 91.2

 

Quentin Nelson was a no brainer draft pick with the 2nd highest rating coming out of college ever at 95.1.

 

Braden Smith, another no name guy that Ballard snagged was rated 3rd behind Nelson and Will Hernandez at 88.1 the same draft year.

 

Kelly was a holdover, but rated as the number one Center the year Grigson FINALLY invested in the oline.

 

Castonzo is Mr. Reliable and was also a 1st Round pick in his day.

 

Glowinski came in and plugged a huge hole at RG, but he regressed a bit last year and will likely lose his job to Pinter very soon.

 

Then there were last years draftees, of course Barton was snagged off of our PS and went on to win a SB while Patterson suffered his first injury ever in TC.

 

Skip past the overall grades and look strictly at the pass protection grades. For 7th Round picks they were extremely good at pass pro (only 2 sacks allowed in 1000+ snaps), just needed development on run blocking - which is technique and attitude based - which we have plenty of!

 

Anyways, Nelson, Smith, Patterson, Barton and now Pinter all have similar traits in common......hustle, play thru the whistle, athletic, intelligent and pass protect very well. 

 

Patterson (C/G) and Pinter (G/T) will likely be our interior oline depth this year with Clark as the swing tackle. Perhaps the Canadian Kid squeaks in as a backup T as well (see below)?

 

I still won't count the USC kid against him as that was his Oline coach pounding the drum for him - even though he's still in the NFL.

Lastly, there is the highly sought after Canadian in Carter O'Donnell, who seems like another athletic olineman and not a lumbering blob.....here is his Pro Day tape since his cancelled.

 

 

This is nice to see:

Tempering excitement and pressure is fine, but this kid is going to be a solid NFL starter with a few tweaks and some knowledge. Still say his Freshman tape at Georgia was far better than his Washington tape (after the two year hiatus)! 

 

Also, awesome to see him throwing with his two 6'4" & 225 lbs rookie wideouts....

 

One last thing, we have a 22 or 23 year streak of an UDFA making the opening 53. I think I have a dark horse candidate for this year.......outside of Carter O'Donnell of course.

 

It is the safety from Georgia Southern Donald Rutledge. We are thin at Safety, especially in that box safety role and this guy fits the mold at 6'1" & 215lbs with 4.62 speed and 22 reps at 225. He is big, fast and strong. And even at his size his 7.18 3-Cone drill isn't bad. https://relativeathleticscores.com/2020/03/21/donald-rutledge-jr-ras/

 

Just a few rando thoughts to stimulate group conversation this Sunday morning!

 

[BProland85]

Super stoked to see Eason already working with his young WRs. And I’m really starting to love the Danny Pinter pick. 

[Coffeedrinker]

I'm not sure how Braden Smith was a no name.  He was considered by many a top guard prospect and was a 4 year start from a power school in a power division.

[MikeCurtis]

I always like your posts.....

 

I hope this season comes together

 

I hope one of the young’uns steps up at OT for depth

 

If Rivers steps it up, if Turray or Lewis step it up, and we have some health, 

we could actually give KC a run for the AFC

[Rackeen305]

Great post with good insight.

[Hoose]

As far as backups on the O-line, I think you have to include Jake Eldrenkamp, G/C,  in that group. The coaches are supposedly high on him. One of 9 O-linemen they keep IMO. 

[smittywerb]

Great post and good read.

 

agree on all points.  Our depth on the OL is good.  Happy Ballard fixed this line.  
 

you’re right about the character of our line.  Hard working and tough.  That’s what you want out of the big guys.  0 diva attitude.

 

and I can’t wait honestly for Eason to take over.  It’s new territory for colts fans.  Well, for fans who followed the team since the 2000s.  All we’ve known was about security in luck and Peyton.  I wonder if Eason is the next one.  He has all the traits.  

[Scott Pennock]

2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm not sure how Braden Smith was a no name.  He was considered by many a top guard prospect and was a 4 year start from a power school in a power division.

To most he was a surprise pick and many had been focused on the UTEP kid....Wil Hernandez I believe and thought we reached for him. 

[NewColtsFan]

Good post, Scott...

 

Some thoughts....   I believe Pinter lasted as long as he did (in addition to playing at Ball State, as you mentioned)  is that he has very short arms.  31 and 3/4 inches.   I believe that’s the shortest OL arm length Ballard has drafted.   As it is, Smith’s are 32 1/2 and they were considered too short for OT, and Pinter is now 3/4” shorter. 
 

So for that reason, I believe Pinter has been profiled as the backup at C/G and not at G/T.   In fact,  I’ve yet to see anyone on any website project him anywhere except C/G.   That’s all I’ve seen everywhere.   I believe Ballard called him a guard on draft night.

 

As for Zack Banner...   I don’t blame Ballard for him.  The kid was drafted right about where he was projected.   Bottom of the 4th round.  And the 2017 OL was called one of the worst classes of OL anyone could remember.  So the odds of finding talent in that class was always a long shot.  And he’s still in the league.   Think he’s a backup at Pittsburgh.   As we all know,  they’re a little more forgiving with their players. 
And I don’t blame Joe Philbin either.   He’s a top OL coach.  
 

Thanks for the topic...   good off-season discussions are harder to come by this year for the obvious reason. 
 

[Scott Pennock]

39 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Great post and good read.

 

agree on all points.  Our depth on the OL is good.  Happy Ballard fixed this line.  
 

you’re right about the character of our line.  Hard working and tough.  That’s what you want out of the big guys.  0 diva attitude.

 

and I can’t wait honestly for Eason to take over.  It’s new territory for colts fans.  Well, for fans who followed the team since the 2000s.  All we’ve known was about security in luck and Peyton.  I wonder if Eason is the next one.  He has all the traits.  

I have watched the transitions from the Hogeboom/Trudeau/Chandler days to the Jeff George days thru the Captain Comeback Harbaugh days finally to Peyton and Luck.

 

That stability was always a great feeling.

 

These are new times and we'll have to manufacture and/or catch lightening in a bottle - and I think we are extremely lucky in nabbing Eason (#1 rated HS QB) that has bad luck and circumstance guide him off course a bit.

 

If he played all three years he likely would have been a top 5 pick. We got lucky in the 4th round where there is zero pressure on him. He just needs to learn, tighten up a few technical issues and then kill it!

[Scott Pennock]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Good post, Scott...

 

Some thoughts....   I believe Pinter lasted as long as he did (in addition to playing at Ball State, as you mentioned)  is that he has very short arms.  31 and 3/4 inches.   I believe that’s the shortest OL arm length Ballard has drafted.   As it is, Smith’s are 32 1/2 and they were considered too short for OT, and Pinter is now 3/4” shorter. 
 

So for that reason, I believe Pinter has been profiled as the backup at C/G and not at G/T.   In fact,  I’ve yet to see anyone on any website project him anywhere except C/G.   That’s all I’ve seen everywhere.   I believe Ballard called him a guard on draft night.

 

As for Zack Banner...   I don’t blame Ballard for him.  The kid was drafted right about where he was projected.   Bottom of the 4th round.  And the 2017 OL was called one of the worst classes of OL anyone could remember.  So the odds of finding talent in that class was always a long shot.  And he’s still in the league.   Think he’s a backup at Pittsburgh.   As we all know,  they’re a little more forgiving with their players. 
And I don’t blame Joe Philbin either.   He’s a top OL coach.  
 

Thanks for the topic...   good off-season discussions are harder to come by this year for the obvious reason. 
 

Short arms on Pinter, yes. I still believe he's the RG before long. Then we can pull both ways. 

 

That was twice they broke their own size, speed, length rules in the draft with Pinter and Rodgers - however, they bring excellent skills elsewhere with speed/agility from Pinter and ball skills/return skills from Rodgers.

 

My guess is Moore II and Smith have shown the staff that if they show special abilities elsewhere they can overcome the height or length needed......?

 

Banner, yes thank you. Ironically Banner was available and Philbon didn't sign him when he left for Minnesota - Banner originally signed with Carolina and then Pittsburg. I thought that was a telling sign. However, he has carved out a role for 2 years now in Pittsburg.

[crazycolt1]

I was curious as who said there were rules on arm length, size or weight concerning players? 

The NFL has quite a few player who 'don't fit the bill' in measurements but are good football players. Just maybe a players talent can compensate for having arms an inch too short? 

[richard pallo]

16 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I was curious as who said there were rules on arm length, size or weight concerning players? 

The NFL has quite a few player who 'don't fit the bill' in measurements but are good football players. Just maybe a players talent can compensate for having arms an inch too short? 

Yeah 3/4" seems like splitting hairs to me.  Maybe he has other attributes that make up for that small difference.  Smith was drafted to be a guard and they tried him at tackle and it worked out perfectly.  Knowing the Colts they will give him some time at tackle as well and see what happens.  Either way he looks like a fine prospect. 

[Archer]

49 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I was curious as who said there were rules on arm length, size or weight concerning players? 

 

I believe Ballard gave us a little insight into his rules when he extended Moore II.  He mentioned how Moore didn't meet the minimums, and it took a couple of scouts jumping on the table for Ballard to take him off final cuts in the first place.  And, when extended, Ballard mentioned that Moore's intangibles and other qualities (like extraordinary quickness and work ethic) made up for his lack of size and length...

[MikeCurtis]

22 hours ago, smittywerb said:

Great post and good read.

 

agree on all points.  Our depth on the OL is good.  Happy Ballard fixed this line.  
 

you’re right about the character of our line.  Hard working and tough.  That’s what you want out of the big guys.  0 diva attitude.

 

and I can’t wait honestly for Eason to take over.  It’s new territory for colts fans.  Well, for fans who followed the team since the 2000s.  All we’ve known was about security in luck and Peyton.  I wonder if Eason is the next one.  He has all the traits.  

Good response, Im also hoping that Eason comes in and works his tail off, and becomes the QB of the future 

 

except........ OL

 

Our depth on OL is not set.........

 

Im not sold on Pinter being better than Glowinski this year.

 

I hope we bring in someone at OT (there are a few FAs still available) that could be the backup

 

I also hope we bring in Warford, and let him compete with Glowinski

 

(We would have good depth with whomever is the backup)

 

But the OT thing is very concerning.......  Lets hope for health

 

 

 

 

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Good response, Im also hoping that Eason comes in and works his tail off, and becomes the QB of the future 

 

except........ OL

 

Our depth on OL is not set.........

 

Im not sold on Pinter being better than Glowinski this year.

 

I hope we bring in someone at OT (there are a few FAs still available) that could be the backup

 

I also hope we bring in Warford, and let him compete with Glowinski

 

(We would have good depth with whomever is the backup)

 

But the OT thing is very concerning.......  Lets hope for health

 

 

 

 

OT is my biggest concern right now when it comes to depth.  I have no confidence in Clark but the team apparently does.  I have to think we will be looking to add a veteran backup down the road.  I sure hope so anyway.  

[Bolts2Colts]

23 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I was curious as who said there were rules on arm length, size or weight concerning players? 

The NFL has quite a few player who 'don't fit the bill' in measurements but are good football players. Just maybe a players talent can compensate for having arms an inch too short? 

So true. Chargers moved on from Brees in part because he was only 6 feet, and the GM was convinced that a QB needs to be tall to be successful. 

[crazycolt1]

57 minutes ago, Bolts2Colts said:

So true. Chargers moved on from Brees in part because he was only 6 feet, and the GM was convinced that a QB needs to be tall to be successful. 

I am not too sure about that comment?

I think it was more a shoulder injury where even the specialist thought Brees would never regain his strength in. Yes there was a power play by Marty Schottenheimer and A.J. Smith who were at odds over the starting QBs. Doug Flutie (5'10") was on that team as well as Phillip Rivers. Rivers was listed as the 3rd string QB at that time.

He did play 5 years for the Chargers after all.  

[Smonroe]

On 5/17/2020 at 12:16 PM, NewColtsFan said:

Good post, Scott...

 

Some thoughts....   I believe Pinter lasted as long as he did (in addition to playing at Ball State, as you mentioned)  is that he has very short arms.  31 and 3/4 inches.   I believe that’s the shortest OL arm length Ballard has drafted.   As it is, Smith’s are 32 1/2 and they were considered too short for OT, and Pinter is now 3/4” shorter. 
 

So for that reason, I believe Pinter has been profiled as the backup at C/G and not at G/T.   In fact,  I’ve yet to see anyone on any website project him anywhere except C/G.   That’s all I’ve seen everywhere.   I believe Ballard called him a guard on draft night.

 

As for Zack Banner...   I don’t blame Ballard for him.  The kid was drafted right about where he was projected.   Bottom of the 4th round.  And the 2017 OL was called one of the worst classes of OL anyone could remember.  So the odds of finding talent in that class was always a long shot.  And he’s still in the league.   Think he’s a backup at Pittsburgh.   As we all know,  they’re a little more forgiving with their players. 
And I don’t blame Joe Philbin either.   He’s a top OL coach.  
 

Thanks for the topic...   good off-season discussions are harder to come by this year for the obvious reason. 
 

 

They're projecting him as a guard.  But sometimes we rely too much measurables (his arm length).  I won't surprise me if he ends up working both RT and G.  Some guys are just good football players, no matter what their measureables tell you.

 

I'm not too sure about Banner though.  I thought they took a chance to see if they could slim him down a bit so he'd be able to move.  IMHO, and 20/20 hindsight, I thought the 4th was too high of a pick for an experiment.

 

I think the Steelers only bring him in as the 6th lineman.  No way they count on him to protect the QB on a pass play.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

 

They're projecting him as a guard.  But sometimes we rely too much measurables (his arm length).  I won't surprise me if he ends up working both RT and G.  Some guys are just good football players, no matter what their measureables tell you.

 

I'm not too sure about Banner though.  I thought they took a chance to see if they could slim him down a bit so he'd be able to move.  IMHO, and 20/20 hindsight, I thought the 4th was too high of a pick for an experiment.

 

I think the Steelers only bring him in as the 6th lineman.  No way they count on him to protect the QB on a pass play.  

All I’m saying about Banner is that he’s still in the league.   He’s still on a roster.   I don’t care if he’s a backup.   
 

Again...   worst class of o-lineman in recent memory.   Went in the BOTTOM of the 4th round with Stewart and Mack.   Banner went where he was projected.   Philbin signed off.  I don’t know what there is to object to?

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

All I’m saying about Banner is that he’s still in the league.   He’s still on a roster.   I don’t care if he’s a backup.   
 

Again...   worst class of o-lineman in recent memory.   Went in the BOTTOM of the 4th round with Stewart and Mack.   Banner went where he was projected.   Philbin signed off.  I don’t know what there is to object to?

Like I said, it’s my opinion (given hindsight, etc,) that it was too early a round for an experiment.    I know it’s unfair after the fact.  But they knew he had no movement ability when they drafted him.  They knew it was a gamble.   Could they have made a better pick there?  Of course, that’s always the case when you miss on a guy.  
 

What round can you afford to gamble?  Depends on the team needs and how strong the roster already is going into the draft.  We weren’t very strong that year.  

 

All of Ballards picks are still in the league, which goes to show he knows more than me, you, or anyone else reading this.  I’m not in agreement about Philbin, but that’s for another day...

[EastStreet]

On 5/17/2020 at 9:48 AM, Scott Pennock said:

 

Perhaps because he played in the MAC nobody cared, but, he played well in his all-star game, blew up the combine and was rated as the 2nd best tackle in the country last year. 2 years removed from being a TE....

 

Pinter was rated a 91.2

The dig on him is his short arms and lack of core strength. Many talked about him getting abused by the better talent in the MAC, and against the few upper conference teams they played. I watched a little of the IU games the past two years, and the ND game in 2018, and he really struggled at times. The ND game was his first year as OL, the game was early, and ND had decent DEs.... so not going to hold that against him. I'm going to watch more games when I get more time.

 

Overall, he's a wildcard. Late position switch plus lower conference. I think he'll benefit big time from a proper S&C program, and there's no doubt he has room to improve (technique) given his late position switch. His body is likely still learning simply to function with the added weight he quickly put on... The fact he did well by his second year post switch is pretty impressive, so I like his chances. I do agree with the talking heads though that it's likely at G or C though. Unless we have an arm stretcher lol... 

 

On 5/17/2020 at 9:48 AM, Scott Pennock said:

Braden Smith, another no name guy that Ballard snagged was rated 3rd behind Nelson and Will Hernandez at 88.1 the same draft year.

Smith was not a no-name. He was a first team AA, and first team SEC (x2 IIRC). He was also a HS AA (top 5 G in the nation), SEC all Freshman Team, and I think 2nd team all SEC his sophomore year.

 

That's a crazy impressive college career for an SEC lineman. And he was projected to go 2nd round by most. He was heavy in the rotation as a freshman (starting by the bowl game), and starting fully by his sophomore year. He was key component to Auburn's tough rushing attack, and was likely key to Stidham's breakout year in 2017 (Stidham regressed a bit when Smith graduated). The only thing that is surprising, is that he's doing as well as he is at T, instead of guard.