Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

When Will Rivers Pass Marino?


Lancer1

Rivers Chasing Marino  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Of Marino’s Career Records Will Philip Get 1st?

    • Career Passing Yards (Rivers needs 2,091)
      45
    • Career Touchdown Passes (Rivers Needs 24)
      1


Recommended Posts

With even an average statistical season, Philip Rivers stands poised to catch & surpass Hall of Famer Dan Marino in 2 career accomplishments, oddly enough both for #5 All Time.  

 

He’s 2,090 yards & 23 touchdown passes behind the former Dolphins legend and should conceivably claim both records by December, as long as the games are all played and he doesn’t get injured or replaced as the starting QB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

This thread just made me realized the Marino is about to be 6th on the all time records list!  Ben can catch him too in the next couple of seasons most likely.

Ben Roethlisberger has 56,545 career passing yards, 4,816 behind Dan Marino and 2,726 behind Philip Rivers.  Considering Big Ben's tendency of getting hurt, coupled with his team's penchant for primarily running the ball, I'd say Roethlisberger is a good season & ½  if not 2 seasons away from catching Marino, if ever at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nobody’s really talking about Ben these days. An older QB coming back from injury, Rusty, and no Antonio Brown and he’s always talked retirement for some reason.  Really  don’t know what his year will look like. He could be great or he could struggle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's strange seeing Phil overtake Marino on some of these lists.

 

I'd go yards

13 minutes ago, Superfly said:

 and deservedly so. 
 


 

 

If he wins a SB in Indy, sure. Other than that.. I'm on the fence. A guy like Matt Ryan might get in to, that's just boggles my mind tbh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, The Fish said:

It's strange seeing Phil overtake Marino on some of these lists.

 

I'd go yards

If he wins a SB in Indy, sure. Other than that.. I'm on the fence. A guy like Matt Ryan might get in to, that's just boggles my mind tbh.


I here you, but here’s the problem. Look at Warren Moon, and specifically look at his 500 record and 2 playoff wins out of 10-12 games. Never played in a Conference Championship either.

 

The CFL doesn’t count, as he is in the CFL HOF and he was on the NFL All rookie team as QB in 1984. 
 

Folks will spin it with Moon anyway they want, but it opened the door for everyone else with stats due to longevity IMO.

 

Not letting the likes of Rivers, Ryan, Palmer  and maybe Bledsoe in, who have either identical or superior stats to Moon is hypocritical.

 

Or is this something else? :peek:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, The Fish said:

It's strange seeing Phil overtake Marino on some of these lists.

 

I'd go yards

If he wins a SB in Indy, sure. Other than that.. I'm on the fence. A guy like Matt Ryan might get in to, that's just boggles my mind tbh.

A ring shouldn't be a factor imo. Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, Sanders, plus many other great players never won it all and are still deserving of a bust in Canton. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Superfly said:


I here you, but here’s the problem. Look at Warren Moon, and specifically look at his 500 record and 2 playoff wins out of 10-12 games. Never played in a Conference Championship either.

 

The CFL doesn’t count, as he is in the CFL HOF and he was on the NFL All rookie team as QB in 1984. 
 

Folks will spin it with Moon anyway they want, but it opened the door for everyone else with stats due to longevity IMO.

 

Not letting the likes of Rivers, Ryan, Palmer  and maybe Bledsoe in, who have either identical or superior stats to Moon is hypocritical.

 

Or is this something else? :peek:

 

I'm not saying anything about race here and I don't think that's the fly in the ointment of the comparison. Moon was very important on that level, but here's the thing, he played in a much tougher game too- I defer to that over trying to compare stats from eras. He took crazy hits, got up and kept firing. Everyone's efficiency back in the day sucked compared to the last 10-15 years- great QB's back in Moon's day played like Brissett quite often, statistically speaking.  

 

My HOF metric is probably not fixed enough, but my gut test says that none of your other guys are strong HOF'ers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, The Fish said:

My HOF metric is probably not fixed enough, but my gut test says that none of your other guys are strong HOF'ers. 


I’m not saying all those guys should get in, but I’m implying the selection process is still flawed and biased. 
 

I don’t think Championship’s are needed to get into the HOF, while others do. 
 

I also, don’t think QBs like J. Plunkett or P. Simms with multiple SB wins should be in, and either are in the HOF. 

 

And stats unfortunately are a benchmark for getting in the past 25 years! 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Superfly said:


I’m not saying all those guys should get in, but I’m implying the selection process is still flawed and biased. 
 

I don’t think Championship’s are needed to get into the HOF, while others do. 
 

I also, don’t think QBs like J. Plunkett or p. Simms with multiple SB wins should be in, and he is not.

 

And stats unfortunately are a benchmark for getting in the past 25 years! 
 

 

I think for QBs, rings are more important than the other positions. Greatness for QBs has always been measured in their ability to lead their teams to championships. Of course there are other factors as well but rings I think are weighted more heavily. For that reason, I think Rivers is borderline to get in while Eli is a lock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

I think for QBs, rings are more important than the other positions. Greatness for QBs has always been measured in their ability to lead their teams to championships. Of course there are other factors as well but rings I think are weighted more heavily. For that reason, I think Rivers is borderline to get in while Eli is a lock.


Agree to disagree. It’s complicated! 
 

However, it’s turning into the Hall of Exceptionally Good. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Superfly said:


Agree to disagree. It’s complicated! 
 

However, it’s turning into the Hall of Exceptionally Good. 

I agree. The Hall lost its luster a long time ago. To be honest as a fan, I could care less whether players I like get in or not. It is more of an accomplishment for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

I think for QBs, rings are more important than the other positions. Greatness for QBs has always been measured in their ability to lead their teams to championships. Of course there are other factors as well but rings I think are weighted more heavily. For that reason, I think Rivers is borderline to get in while Eli is a lock.

Under that rationale, QBs like Jim Plunkett, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson & Joe Flacco are worthy of induction, and guys like Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, & Jim Kelly are not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

Under that rationale, QBs like Jim Plunkett, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson & Joe Flacco are worthy of induction, and guys like Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, & Jim Kelly are not.

Not really. Rings are just weighted more for QBs. They are not they only criteria otherwise Marino would not be in there. But Marino was transcendent. I think QBs without any rings have to have that type of career to get consideration for the most part. I don't think it is necessarily right but that is what has historically happened.

 

I mean Eli will get in for his 2 rings alone while the rest of his career was sub-par and often times awful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Superfly said:

Like Rivers or not, he will be in the HOF eventually and deservedly so. 
 


 

 

I don't doubt that he will get in.

I do not think he should though.   My guidelines would be a bit tougher than they really are though.

My reasoning for not putting him in is that he has never been a top 3-4 QB in any of his seasons.  I think you should have been top 3 at your position at least 1 season.  Of course a Superbowl win helps secure a spot.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't doubt that he will get in.

I do not think he should though.   My guidelines would be a bit tougher than they really are though.

My reasoning for not putting him in is that he has never been a top 3-4 QB in any of his seasons.  I think you should have been top 3 at your position at least 1 season.  Of course a Superbowl win helps secure a spot.  


Like I said, it’s complicated. And very flawed. 
 

When I think of a HOF QB, I think of QBs who significantly separated themselves from their peers. 
 

J. Unitas won Championships and revolutionized the QB position during his time. 
 

Marino did the same minus the Championships. However, Marino was on a different planet and the 80s slowly starting transforming in a pass first league. 
 

QBs like Montana were just clutch performers in the big games, without the huge stats, week in week out. 
 

Those are legit HOF QBs. 

QBs like Namath, I can only shake my head.

 

You’d think by now there would be some model to follow with consistency. Playoff success, being All-Pro, MVP and a lot of that is significantly impacted by player stats. 

 

So, to clarify when mentioning W. Moon, he is the last QB to get in (1st yr of eligibility) with not even a Conference Championship appearance, let alone SB. Stats wise, I have zero issues, but first year of eligibility is questionable. What set him apart?   
 

 And that opens the door for new top 10 All-Time stat QBs like Rivers and Ryan to get in without debate IMO.
 


 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't doubt that he will get in.

I do not think he should though.   My guidelines would be a bit tougher than they really are though.

My reasoning for not putting him in is that he has never been a top 3-4 QB in any of his seasons.  I think you should have been top 3 at your position at least 1 season.  Of course a Superbowl win helps secure a spot.  

Don't worry. He will get both this next year with us!  :rock:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, The Fish said:

It's strange seeing Phil overtake Marino on some of these lists.

 

I'd go yards

If he wins a SB in Indy, sure. Other than that.. I'm on the fence. A guy like Matt Ryan might get in to, that's just boggles my mind tbh.

 

I think Matty Ice will need a really good 3-4 year run to end out his career to get there...just too much good not great early on.

 

Rivers has the Pro Bowl nods and the better prime. But Ryan can still end up with better stats...which is pretty crazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Myles said:

I don't doubt that he will get in.

I do not think he should though.   My guidelines would be a bit tougher than they really are though.

My reasoning for not putting him in is that he has never been a top 3-4 QB in any of his seasons.  I think you should have been top 3 at your position at least 1 season.  Of course a Superbowl win helps secure a spot.  

 

I would say he was arguably top 3-4 in his peak...2008-2010. But he was competing against Peyton, Brees, Brady and Rodgers. I think that has to be taken into account. Plus...his stats will be better than Marino.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Superfly said:


Like I said, it’s complicated. And very flawed. 
 

When I think of a HOF QB, I think of QBs who significantly separated themselves from their peers. 
 

J. Unitas won Championships and revolutionized the QB position during his time. 
 

Marino did the same minus the Championships. However, Marino was on a different planet and the 80s slowly starting transforming in a pass first league. 
 

QBs like Montana were just clutch performers in the big games, without the huge stats, week in week out. 
 

Those are legit HOF QBs. 

QBs like Namath, I can only shake my head.

 

You’d think by now there would be some model to follow with consistency. Playoff success, being All-Pro, MVP and a lot of that is significantly impacted by player stats. 

 

So, to clarify when mentioning W. Moon, he is the last QB to get in (1st yr of eligibility) with not even a Conference Championship appearance, let alone SB. Stats wise, I have zero issues, but first year of eligibility is questionable. What set him apart?   
 

 And that opens the door for new top 10 All-Time stat QBs like Rivers and Ryan to get in without debate IMO.
 


 

 

 

Once you start letting in guys like Tarkenton...you have to let in a guy like Rivers. I know it's different eras...but Rivers will have the counting stats AND just better numbers than all but a handful of QBs all time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I think Matty Ice will need a really good 3-4 year run to end out his career to get there...just too much good not great early on.

 

Rivers has the Pro Bowl nods and the better prime. But Ryan can still end up with better stats...which is pretty crazy.

In my opinion, neither deserves to make the HOF.   Good stats in a passing league skews this.   Neither was one of the best QB's in a season they played.  Top 5-8, yes, but top 5-8 of QB's of your time is not HOF worthy.   I agree there are many in the HOF who shouldn't be, but that is a poor excuse for continuing a poor practice.  

 

28 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

I think an eye test is necessary. Walter Payton belonged even if he never won a SB. Yardage? Maybe but watching him, you saw his team was crappy and what he had to do to get those yards.

Walter deserves to be in.  He was 1 of the best for several years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Once you start letting in guys like Tarkenton...you have to let in a guy like Rivers. I know it's different eras...but Rivers will have the counting stats AND just better numbers than all but a handful of QBs all time.


Better Tarkenton, then Namath. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Once you start letting in guys like Tarkenton...you have to let in a guy like Rivers. I know it's different eras...but Rivers will have the counting stats AND just better numbers than all but a handful of QBs all time.

Tarkenton broke Johnny Unitas long standing record and he went to 3 Super Bowls.  That would classify as special.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I would say he was arguably top 3-4 in his peak...2008-2010. But he was competing against Peyton, Brees, Brady and Rodgers. I think that has to be taken into account. Plus...his stats will be better than Marino.

He may break the top 4 in 1 season, but that is even questionable.  

I just cannot agree with 4-6 players at any position at the same time being HOF material.  Rivers was probably around the 6th to 8th best QB of his era.  

 

Brady

Manning

Rodgers

Big Ben

Brees

Romo?

Luck?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

I think an eye test is necessary. Walter Payton belonged even if he never won a SB. Yardage? Maybe but watching him, you saw his team was crappy and what he had to do to get those yards.

Walter did win a super bowl with the 85 Bears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Walter did win a super bowl with the 85 Bears.

Right, but if he had retired before that Super Bowl, he still deserved to be in the HOF is my point. Nobody did more with less than Walter Payton except maybe Barry Sanders. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of the 26 modern-era QBs in the Hall of Fame, every one of them has either won a championship or been First Team All-Pro. Rivers has never appeared in the Super Bowl and he has never been an All-Pro (First or Second Team).

 

The hall of very good?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dogg63 said:

Of the 26 modern-era QBs in the Hall of Fame, every one of them has either won a championship or been First Team All-Pro. Rivers has never appeared in the Super Bowl and he has never been an All-Pro (First or Second Team).

 

The hall of very good?

Rivers has been a 8 time pro bowl player and was seriously snubbed at least one other year.(the year he lead the league in passing yardage)

He just happened to play during Manning and Brady's careers so his career has been overlooked big time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Super bowls should not even be considered when they vote on the HOF.

Super bowls are team orientated. 

Do you think Ryan Fitzpatrick, who has thrown for more TDs and will probably pass Aikman in yards this year should be in the HOF?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Rivers has been a 8 time pro bowl player and was seriously snubbed at least one other year.(the year he lead the league in passing yardage)

He just happened to play during Manning and Brady's careers so his career has been overlooked big time. 

All-Pro and pro bowl are very different.  He was behind better QB's his entire career which leads me to believe he wasn't one of the best.   Why would a player who wasn't one of the best be in the HOF?

 

It's just my opinion.  I wish they would tighten the restrictions.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Myles said:

All-Pro and pro bowl are very different.  He was behind better QB's his entire career which leads me to believe he wasn't on of the best.   Why would a player who wasn't one of the best be in the HOF?

 

It's just my opinion.  I wish they would tighten the restrictions.  

Maybe take a look at the other side of the coin?

Should Rivers be snubbed because he wasn't better than Manning or Brady? 

Two of the greatest QBs to have ever played the game? 

Rivers has been or better than Eli Manning his whole career but because of no super bowl wins he is not looked at in the same light. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Rivers has been a 8 time pro bowl player and was seriously snubbed at least one other year.(the year he lead the league in passing yardage)

He just happened to play during Manning and Brady's careers so his career has been overlooked big time. 

That is part of being in the Hall though. Being the best of your generation. Brees has been better than him too and Ben has been better and that is his direct peer age-wise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, FortheWin said:

That is part of being in the Hall though. Being the best of your generation. Brees has been better than him too and Ben has been better and that is his direct peer age-wise.

That is not how a HOF player is voted in. He should be voted on on his merits, not what some other player did. 

Brees and Ben will be in the HOF and that has zero to do with Rivers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I just cant understand taking D line over a CB this year.  WR or Bowers would make sense to me   If the team doesnt value corners this way then maybe they should start.  I dont like to pigeon hole what we draft this hard but our secondary is a bunch of nobodies and our Dline is ok, better than ok actually.  We dont even have many snaps for a rookie unless they are a really good edge right out of the gate. A rookie DT from this class isnt beating Buckner or Stewart.
    • We see many coverage failures by all teams caused by miscommunication.  Certainly there are exceptional individuals that play CB but experience and intelligence are vital.  Flowers had size and 4.3's speed, and Jones was decent. Juju has potential but because of his size and speed he will always be successfully targeted.   We are desperate for a 4.3's stud that can cover anytime, anywhere. That was Rodgers BTW. 
    • Isaiah Land he says.     Every year it happens. The Dallas Cowboys make some tough roster cuts and we all wait nervously to see if our favorite prospects make it cleanly through waivers. Most do, but every once in a while, a team will scoop up that one guy we were hoping made it to the practice squad. This year, that player is edge rusher Isaiah Land. An undrafted free agent from Florida A&M, Land dealt with injuries his final year in college, but had a remarkable season in 2021 when he finished with 19 sacks, 25.5 tackles for a loss, and three fumble recoveries. While there is a lot to be uncovered with him, he still flashed enough to draw interest from the Cowboys. Throughout the summer, the young edge rusher had impressed and it looked like the team had found another diamond in the rough. Land was fantastic during the preseason. In three games, he finished with 10 total pressures, which was the second-most of any player on any NFL team this preseason. He also finished with seven hurries on 45 pass-rushing snaps. He only recorded one official sack but finished with a pass rush win rate of 20%. Not only that, he had opposing tackles so worried about his get-off that they were regularly jumping early. There were several instances when tackles would get called for a false start.    Might as well be optimistic about  Woods and Land contributing to our resurrection. 
    • Nice catch Stitch.  Year two of Steichen, our very functional TE group and Downs gives me very high expectations that we will be highly effective attacking the middle of the field. If we do add another WR to help complement the other side of the field, Pittman's ability to be even more outstanding only goes up. And I feel confident another guy will be added. Our offense should be very strong for 2024.
    • I'm hopeful Colts resign Blackmon and do this in the draft
  • Members

×
×
  • Create New...