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Malik Hookers 5th year option Declined


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You are no doubt the dumbest poster on this board. Maybe dumber than anyone on the internet.   Please do us a favor ... either find a new team or keep your stupid opinions to yourself.

Why is this so hard to fathom? He is a solid player, who has struggled some to stay on the field. By declining the option, he now has to prove that he can be available. If he does, and truly balls out

I definitely would have hit Hooker with the option. I stated all the reasons earlier, but the biggest one is that the value was for half of what top tier safeties are making in FA right now. And it's

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5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Agreed. 

 

The thing about our secondary tho is that they seem to have certain athletic or physical traits as the number one priority.  It seems that each has the "traits" attribute placed higher than overall football experience or aptitude.  I think that's ok to have players like that, but if every players in the secondary has that same set of attributes stacked the same way, there is an overweighting of it.  Hooker was a former basketball player with limited football experience, but has athletic traits with which to develop into more than just a deep zone ball hawk, and I just don't see that development yet.

 

Winfield is highly instinctive.  He's probably more of a true genuine football player than anybody in our secondary.  So what he gives up in being able to play the deep ball, I think he could act as the captain of the secondary.  A trait that is currently missing among our DBs.

 

And Hooker got beat plenty of times on deep balls last year when he wasn't playing deep.

 

   Yep. At certain positions on D, instincts trump physical/athletic traits. Safety 

   (and LB, particularly MIKE) tops the list.

 

    

 

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If I remember correctly they can pick up the 5th year option and rescind it if they choose.  Only guaranteed for injury which is a bit of risk for him.  I think he is average most of the time but does make plays on occasion.  He is a legit starter in the league and replacing him is not a priority right now.  Too bad he hasn’t lived up to his draft slot but maybe a DL will help. 

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Ballard should probably go ahead and exercise his option. Having Buckner is going to help the entire defense. Plus him being s safety that fifth year isn’t going to cost much.

59 minutes ago, indykmj said:

 

   Yep. At certain positions on D, instincts trump physical/athletic traits. Safety 

   (and LB, particularly MIKE) tops the list.

 

    

 

Kenny Moore is a good example of this. His football instincts are off the chart good.

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10 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Within the last couple of days Hooker has removed all Colts affiliation information from his instagram.  My take is he's on the trade block and he knows it.  In December Gil Brandt did a take on what teams should do with the fifth year option for their players.  He has the Bucs "on the fence" with Howard but thinks his option would be around 6M for the 19th pick.  No estimate on Hookers dollar value with the 15th pick but he recommends " pick up the option".  I think Hooker is a player who could be moved in the near future.   For a pick or a player?  It just might happen.  

Wilson did the same thing and he is still here.

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7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The fact they haven’t made a decision yet and are waiting until the draft is over tells us a lot. They aren’t sold.

There is no rush. It's a common every day situation for all 1st rounders going into their 4th years. Not a lot to see here to be honest. A smart GM would float a team friendly offer/extension to him, and he doesn't bite, then exercise the 5th year. It's basic type of stuff.

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8 hours ago, 1959Colts said:

 Just seems to me, that when Hooker has been out due to injury, the backup players (many of which are undrafted types)  mostly do just as well, with little drop-off. and sometimes there is actually an improvement in tackling from the backups.

This. Our defense was actually better when he hurt his knee this past season. Odum was very good.

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5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Wilson did the same thing and he is still here.

He still has Colts all over his Twitter. Doesn't even look like he uses Instagram. Nothing to see here IMO...

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

There is no rush. It's a common every day situation for all 1st rounders going into their 4th years. Not a lot to see here to be honest. A smart GM would float a team friendly offer/extension to him, and he doesn't bite, then exercise the 5th year. It's basic type of stuff.

If that’s the case I see your point. 

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4 hours ago, Jdubu said:

My big question here would be, say we give him the 5th year option and he plays really well, is it him shining or is it the improvement up front with all the money we’ve invested in the line? Secondly to that question, if it’s because of the improved line, can we get similar production from a new draft pick after this year or do we go ahead and pay for a new high level contract on a guy who only showed that production with a new dline? I say by placing all that money in the Dline, you have a product that makes the backend always look better and can be replaced with cheaper, younger players instead of bets playing for near max type contracts. Hard to say. Chicken or the egg argument. 

You are pointing out my concern. It’s hard for any safety to look good without having a good dline. We now have, on paper, a very nicely shaped Dline but Hooker is going to want top 5 FS money if he finally plays like we’ve all thought he would. Does CB put capital more so in the Dline or into the backfield? He can’t do both and keep an offense that’s high powered either. You have to find areas you are gonna choose to pay big money to and skimp on the others, using youth over vets at certain spots. Safety is gonna be one of those imho. 

It’s possible that Walker could garner us a higher draft pick or package a move up if needed. We can put Okareke in that spot and move forward. That’s not a diss or desire to get rid of Walker, rather a desire to keep fresh talent in the pipelines while having replacement plans in place after getting something of value back for a young talent. I’m also not replacing Glow for a 3rd round guy and he would garner that imho but he fills in just good enough. The nice thing is, we have choices and solid options. Don’t have to be desperate to do anything. 

Okereke is on a cheap rookie contract. There is no reason we can’t give walker a extension. He won’t cost a ton.  A team still need depth. We have such good LB’ers and depth right now.

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I made this prediction about 7-10 days ago,  but I’m happy to make it again.

 

Due to circumstances mostly out of his control, Hooker is not yet the player we hoped he’d be.  
 

I do not think we will offer Malik the 5th year option...    BUT...   if his play improves enough in his year 4, then I think we will offer him a multi-year deal after that.   I think we will want him back.

 

Most times when a team does not pick up the fifth year option, they’re saying...   “we don’t want you back.”   I don’t think that’s the case with Hooker. 

I think we do want him back if he gets better.    2020 a big year for the kid. 

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Walker and Glow are cheap for us, and won't garner a lot of capital. It would be foolish to part with either given Walker is highly productive, and the OL already lacks depth. 

That was my thinking.  And i’m not so sure you could replace them with any pick received for trade.

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16 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If that’s the case I see your point. 

Teams must declare their intent on 5th year options between Jan and early May for all 1st round guys going into their 4th year. Not really a big deal. We can say no if we don't want him back, or don't think he'd be worth it. He'd get paid the average of 3rd to 25th highest salaries for his position if we wanted to keep him. Think of it as sort of a franchise or transition tag, just not as much. And it's only guaranteed for injury IIRC. Not sure what the new CB changes might be though.

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22 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

That was my thinking.  And i’m not so sure you could replace them with any pick received for trade.

IMO, we have a great situation at LB. Between Walker and Oke, we are well rounded at both Mike and SAM + backup. Fantastic utilization of two guys who both have holes in their game. Riding Oke at both starting SAM and passing down MIKE is brilliant use. And we're not paying for two top tier guys either. I'll ride this situation for as long as possible.

 

Glow, sure he's the wink link on our OL, but EVERY team has a wink link, and Glow is good weak link. And simply we are thin at depth, so need need to even consider trading him.

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The easy thing to say is that Hooker should take a team friendly deal, if not move along. The hard part is figuring out who will provide better FS play than Hooker but yet take a team friendly deal?. Go ahead the odds say that you won't find a player better than Hooker at a cheaper price. Therefore since the team is void of playmakers on defense, Pay the man and look to improve other positions, there are plenty gaps/holds remaining.

 

If Hooker is healthy this season, pay em. He's young, and has proven what he could do. I believe it was 3 INTs in 4 games as a rookie or something? Now build a team with him. The worse that could happen is you overpay another guy. 

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19 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

The easy thing to say is that Hooker should take a team friendly deal, if not move along. The hard part is figuring out who will provide better FS play than Hooker but yet take a team friendly deal?. Go ahead the odds say that you won't find a player better than Hooker at a cheaper price. Therefore since the team is void of playmakers on defense, Pay the man and look to improve other positions, there are plenty gaps/holds remaining.

 

If Hooker is healthy this season, pay em. He's young, and has proven what he could do. I believe it was 3 INTs in 4 games as a rookie or something? Now build a team with him. The worse that could happen is you overpay another guy. 

Here's the likely options/possibilities....

 

1. Now - Team friendly deal/extension

2. Now - Exercise 5th year option and pay him the average salary of top 3 through 25th players

3. Later - He plays really well in 2020 and you have to pay bigger salary

4. Later - He plays the same or a bit better, offer him another team friendly deal

5. Later - Plays the same or worse, let him go

 

Personally, I'd offer him a team friendly deal, and would not exercise 5th YO. The 5th YO would make him around the 11th or 12th highest paid in 2021. It's certainly possible he plays really well this year and gets into the 80s (making him top 20), but it's also possible he does not. And if I were him, I'd bet on myself and turn down the team friendly offer. Just business on both sides.

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17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

To all the conspiracy folks.....

 

He's still got Colts stuff on his Twitter... I didn't even think he was active on Instagram, and just checked... Says "no posts yet"... Not an Instagram person, but if he has no posts.... 

Hooker is not active on Instagram? 
 

That might not be a bad thing. :burnout:

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20 hours ago, 1959Colts said:

 Just seems to me, that when Hooker has been out due to injury, the backup players (many of which are undrafted types)  mostly do just as well, with little drop-off. and sometimes there is actually an improvement in tackling from the backups.

I see the same things. Hooker was consistently out of position on the big chunk plays the D gave up. They really didn’t seem to miss him that much when he was out with his typical injuries. He was a major disappointment last year. That said, the depth at safety is fairly thin right now on this team, so it’s not an easy call on his option. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Colts decline the option and see if that motivates him to play up to his abilities. And if they do that, watch them grab a S/CB hybrid in the draft Day 3. 

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It is about $6.5 million, the 5th year option for a safety, in that ballpark. 2 free agent safeties that got re-signed - Jimmie Ward of 49ers for 3 years, $27 million; and Devin McCourty for 2 years, $23 million.

 

So, for a 1 year deal, picking up the 5th year option might be prudent to see what Hooker can really show us. The safety market is not that great in free agency, and that is a big factor in Hooker's favor. If you draft a rookie and say he outplays Hooker (I know Bethea changed safety play when he was drafted), you can always bid goodbye at the end of the season. If Hooker balls out, he is not nearly as good as the above 2 I mentioned, so his price tag will still be lower.

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28 minutes ago, chad72 said:

It is about $6.5 million, the 5th year option for a safety, in that ballpark. 2 free agent safeties that got re-signed - Jimmie Ward of 49ers for 3 years, $27 million; and Devin McCourty for 2 years, $23 million.

 

So, for a 1 year deal, picking up the 5th year option might be prudent to see what Hooker can really show us. The safety market is not that great in free agency, and that is a big factor in Hooker's favor. If you draft a rookie and say he outplays Hooker (I know Bethea changed safety play when he was drafted), you can always bid goodbye at the end of the season. If Hooker balls out, he is not nearly as good as the above 2 I mentioned, so his price tag will still be lower.

He's already under contract for his 4th year (this year), so really don't need to exercise his 5th year to see what he has. Locking in the 5th year option would give him roughly 9.5M (making him top 15 paid) for 2021. I'm not necessarily against doing it, but I could equally support floating him a team friendly offer for an extension, and not exercising the 5YO as well.

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On 4/18/2020 at 9:25 AM, richard pallo said:

Within the last couple of days Hooker has removed all Colts affiliation information from his instagram.  My take is he's on the trade block and he knows it.  In December Gil Brandt did a take on what teams should do with the fifth year option for their players.  He has the Bucs "on the fence" with Howard but thinks his option would be around 6M for the 19th pick.  No estimate on Hookers dollar value with the 15th pick but he recommends " pick up the option".  I think Hooker is a player who could be moved in the near future.   For a pick or a player?  It just might happen.  

 

On 4/18/2020 at 10:08 AM, Dogg63 said:

He still has Colts on his twitter banner.

https://twitter.com/malikhooker24?lang=en

 

On 4/18/2020 at 10:09 AM, EastStreet said:

To all the conspiracy folks.....

 

He's still got Colts stuff on his Twitter... I didn't even think he was active on Instagram, and just checked... Says "no posts yet"... Not an Instagram person, but if he has no posts.... 

 

To above -- yes, he still has his picture in a Colts uni as his Twitter banner.  He has no posts on Instagram.  He's always seemed like kind of a shy guy, and is not nearly as active (in the case of instagram, not active at all) as other players.  I wouldn't read into his social media at  all to decide whether he's going to remain a Colt or not, he simply isn't active there.

 

 

On 4/18/2020 at 10:49 AM, 1959Colts said:

 Just seems to me, that when Hooker has been out due to injury, the backup players (many of which are undrafted types)  mostly do just as well, with little drop-off. and sometimes there is actually an improvement in tackling from the backups.

 

Hooker, IMO, really improved as a tackler last year.  He doesn't get thrown at very often.  He had 3 INTs in 7 games as rookie before getting hurt.  His knee injury is one that many experts say takes a year or more to really get back to form.  He seemed more athletic last year than he did in his second year.  IMO, that's because he was probably still 'recovering' while he was playing his second year.

 

If he can stay healthy, (he played 7 games as a rookie and 13 in years 2-3, I think he's still go potential.. but who knows, he had to have more than 1 surgery after leaving Ohio State - I think one on his labrum and one on his groin), I think he's an above average, with potential to be more than that as a FS in this league.

 

On 4/18/2020 at 10:54 AM, Superfly said:


Like I said, I think the Colts should keep him, but he hasn’t lived up to his draft status.

 

Do elite FS’s require an above average pass rush to be top 5 at their respective position?

 

Who Knows Idk GIF by Dolly Parton

 

 

 

 

An above average pass rush helps the secondary tremendously.  For the FS, it's not just pass rush though.  They require the other members of the secondary to also be above average for them to shine.  To be honest, last year wasn't a great year to truly evaluate Hooker.  Ya-Sin got thrown in the fire, and even though he improved as time went on, he definitely had some rookie struggles at on outside CB position.  Kenny more missed 5 games.  Quincy Wilson didn't show up.  Desir declined from the previous year.  Tell showed signs but was still a rookie.  Geathers was underwhelming.  Willis played well as a rookie, but was still a rookie and seemed better against the run than the pass at SS.  

 

So yes, for a FS in a cover 2, a solid pass rush is almost essential for a FS to shine.  Additionally, having your CBs to rely on is also essential for the FS to shine.  Hooker didn't have either of those things going his way last year.  I'm more concerned with his health and surrounding talent than I am with his ability.

 

On 4/18/2020 at 7:36 PM, Chloe6124 said:

Wilson did the same thing and he is still here.

 

Well, Wilson also has some pretty cryptic tweets.  Re-tweeted Stefon Diggs' "They show fake love and be hating lowkey".... "The real know the deal lol" ... retweet S Diggs "in trouble waters the real learn how to float" ... retweeted Shaq Wiggins "these ugly days are for the better days" ... retweeted Fournette "by the time they realize your worth, you'll be worth more..." ... "better days ahead" .. "I want more for myself, can't blame me."   -- retweeted Desir signing with Jets.. retweeted Keion Adams "this generation isn't built on loyalty, it's built on attention."... retweeted Funchess signing w/ Packers ... retweeted Jaleel "Serious Question: How'd you go from locking Kelce up, to being a healthy scratch?  That isn't normal."  ... tweeted "Back against the wall.. just how I like it." .. etc., etc.

 

Those all seem like they can be interpreted as a guy who either wants out or knows he's going to get shown the door.  Hooker doesn't have anything like that, the guy just doesn't use his social media near as much.

 

On 4/18/2020 at 7:46 PM, NewColtsFan said:

I made this prediction about 7-10 days ago,  but I’m happy to make it again.

 

Due to circumstances mostly out of his control, Hooker is not yet the player we hoped he’d be.  
 

I do not think we will offer Malik the 5th year option...    BUT...   if his play improves enough in his year 4, then I think we will offer him a multi-year deal after that.   I think we will want him back.

 

Most times when a team does not pick up the fifth year option, they’re saying...   “we don’t want you back.”   I don’t think that’s the case with Hooker. 

I think we do want him back if he gets better.    2020 a big year for the kid. 

 

Well, look at what Ballard's doing right now.  He's publicly stated 2020 is a big year for guys like Q. Wilson and Tyquan Lewis.  He has brought in several FAs on 1 year deals.  I think for a lot of guys on this roster, it's 'put up or shut up' this year.

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On 4/18/2020 at 11:27 AM, ThinBlueLineColts said:

This would be my take. He’s had some highlight plays(see the Chargers game) but for every highlight play I could point out two or three where he’s out of position or takes a bad angle on a tackle and we give up a big gain or score. I’d probably pick it up to give him this season and next to really develop and show some consistency. If not, nobody can say the Colts didn’t give him a chance. 

The Texans game away

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8 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Any news on this yet?

 

Colts have til Monday to make a decision.

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I don't blame them for not taking it....... I just hope if they chose to let him go, they don't expect someone on the current roster to take his place.

 

I think he's going to have a nice season with upgrades to the DL. If true, and they don't exercise the option, they'll be paying more sooner than later. Or, they'll be going early next year in the draft for a FS.

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I think it would be easier to trade him now without the exercising the option.  Many teams are exercising their options and here we sit.  They could possibly still be talking to the teams that contacted them leading up to the draft.  Or now we could be making calls.  This could go in any number of directions.  A little more Colt drama leading up to Monday's deadline. 

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28 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think it would be easier to trade him now without the exercising the option.  Many teams are exercising their options and here we sit.  They could possibly still be talking to the teams that contacted them leading up to the draft.  Or now we could be making calls.  This could go in any number of directions.  A little more Colt drama leading up to Monday's deadline. 

 

We trade Hooker and then we have no one to play FS.

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On 4/18/2020 at 9:44 AM, ukcolt12 said:

"Yeah, we got a little time (on that). When we get through the draft, we’ll sit down and we’ll talk about the direction we’re going to go there.”

 

What is people's take on this? 

I' don't know about anyone else, but my take is that CB feels they have a little time on that and after the draft they will site down and talk about the direction they are going to go.

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I really liked Hooker coming out of college but I'm not sure we have been using him the right way to get the best out of him. Also he wasn't exactly working with the best supporting cast either. 

 

Been thinking about what I think about trading him or keeping him and I'm not sure to be fair, but I seriously doubt I'd like the compensation we'd get for him.

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4 minutes ago, rayski said:

I really liked Hooker coming out of college but I'm not sure we have been using him the right way to get the best out of him. Also he wasn't exactly working with the best supporting cast either. 

 

 

Or, just possibly, he's not that good now and never really was, nor would be have been very good even without the knee injury.  What ever it is now is what it is now.

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Or, just possibly, he's not that good now and never really was, nor would be have been very good even without the knee injury.  What ever it is now is what it is now.

 

I watched every game he played at OSU, and he was that good. 

 

However, your last sentence says it all.

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I honestly believe Hooker's lack of INTs is a product of how we're using him. Instead of allowing him to play centerfield and ballhawk, he's been mainly used over the top to help when our CBs got beat. He graded out very well in coverage last season, so he brings value to the position in that respect, but I think everyone has had higher expectations with his INT production and that's the only lens he's being viewed through.

 

With better DL and CB talent, he shouldn't have to bail out our CB's as much and can focus on being a ballhawk.

 

The value you'd get in a trade in no way would match the value he brings in coverage and there's no guarantee the guy you bring in to replace him will be anywhere near as good either.

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10 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

We trade Hooker and then we have no one to play FS.

We played pretty good defense when he missed with his knee.

3 minutes ago, Shive said:

I honestly believe Hooker's lack of INTs is a product of how we're using him. Instead of allowing him to play centerfield and ballhawk, he's been mainly used over the top to help when our CBs got beat. He graded out very well in coverage last season, so he brings value to the position in that respect, but I think everyone has had higher expectations with his INT production and that's the only lens he's being viewed through.

 

With better DL and CB talent, he shouldn't have to bail out our CB's as much and can focus on being a ballhawk.

 

The value you'd get in a trade in no way would match the value he brings in coverage and there's no guarantee the guy you bring in to replace him will be anywhere near as good either.

This. Eberflus has used him all wrong.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This. Eberflus has used him all wrong.

I don't necessarily blame Eberlus for using him wrong. I think it's more of an issue that he had to use Hooker that way just to help compensate for the deficiencies at CB. Hopefully with better DL & CB talent, we'll see him unleashed as a ballhawk.

 

I think this will be a telling season for Hooker. He'll either excel, it'll be his own fault that he doesn't, or it'll be Flus' fault for misusing him.

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10 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

We trade Hooker and then we have no one to play FS.

I would trust Ballard on covering that.  If he is traded I would hope it's for a player that could start this year.  Howard would be my 1st. choice but I would be good with Brate as well and both TE's from the Bucs.  

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If he was a 2nd or 3rd rounder I'd say he's good, but he hasn't been performing to 1st rounder expectations.  Then again our pass rush was not very good and we played a soft zone defense so it's hard to really say.  Hope this year will give us an idea on what he can do when we get a pass rush.

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3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

We played pretty good defense when he missed with his knee.

This. Eberflus has used him all wrong.

I appreciate you trying to provide the comic relief!!      :funny:

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The number for Hooker's 5th year is around 8 million. 

 

I think the Colts probably do it as they can just cut him before the season starts anyway. Yeah... I know about the injury clause but I think they roll the dice on it. Also looking at the roster , pretty unlikely they trade him.

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