The Last Dance

[PrincetonTiger]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

RIP Jerry Sloan, was a very good coach.

He was a fellow Tri-Stater and a UE athletic alum like my Dad

 

  @2006Coltsbestever

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

He was a fellow Tri-Stater and a UE athletic alum like my Dad

 

  @2006Coltsbestever

Yeah I hated the Bulls back then because they kept winning every year. I thought Michael Jordan was the best player so I respected them but was really rooting for the Jazz in those Finals in 1997 and 1998. Stockton/Malone/Sloan deserved a ring. They just fell short to a better team unfortunately. Just like the Pacers did in 1998 as well = ECFinals.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Apparently Michaels' account of why/how Isiah Thomas was excluded from the Dream Team is not entirely accurate.

 

michael-jordan-rod-thorn-play-isiah-thomas-dream-team

 

Michael allegedly told Rod Thorn that he wouldn't play if Thomas was on the Dream Team.  Audio of a former interview supports this even though Jordan and Thorn try to deny it...

 

ep3-the-cool-kids-all-sign-on-but-they-dont-include-isiah

 

I know Jordan isn't an ideal "role model", but c'mon man... this "documentary" is a fluff-piece to make yourself look good... trying to tear down Isiah Thomas (and everyone else you possibly can) to make yourself look better...  

 

My opinion of Jordan gets lower every day.  GREAT player.  SUPER-PETTY human-being.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Apparently Michaels' account of why/how Isiah Thomas was excluded from the Dream Team is not entirely accurate.

 

michael-jordan-rod-thorn-play-isiah-thomas-dream-team

 

Michael allegedly told Rod Thorn that he wouldn't play if Thomas was on the Dream Team.  Audio of a former interview supports this even though Jordan and Thorn try to deny it...

 

ep3-the-cool-kids-all-sign-on-but-they-dont-include-isiah

 

I know Jordan isn't an ideal "role model", but c'mon man... this "documentary" is a fluff-piece to make yourself look good... trying to tear down Isiah Thomas (and everyone else you possibly can) to make yourself look better...  

 

My opinion of Jordan gets lower every day.  GREAT player.  SUPER-PETTY human-being.

The Dream Team had the perfect roster, except I would've took Laettner off and had Isiah on it. I am surprised Chuck Daly allowed Isiah not being on the team. That was his Coach.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

On 5/20/2020 at 12:39 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Still a good watch.  I think everyone was surprised to find out the "flu game" was actually the "food poisoning game".  I can't believe Jordan ate a whole pizza at like 11pm, since nobody else would eat any because it was delivered by five people to his hotel room in Utah in the middle of the Finals...  

 

Apparently, the "food poisoning" game wasn't really the "food poisoning" game either...

 

last-dance-director-says-michael-jordan-spit-on-pizza-ahead-of-flu-game-pizza-hut-manager-calls-it-a-bunch-of-crap-jordan-was-poisoned

 

Now that I think about it, anyone that has worked at a pizza place knows there usually aren't even five people working at a pizza place at 10:30 at night...  how could five people have joined in on the delivery back in 1997?  There weren't cell phones yet...  

 

And I guess Jordan had a history of spitting on his food so nobody else would eat it.  He also has a history of drinking.  I wonder if Jordan was drinking that night, a little too much, ate too much pizza too late, and ended up puking in the middle of the night and was hungover the next day...  

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Apparently, the "food poisoning" game wasn't really the "food poisoning" game either...

 

last-dance-director-says-michael-jordan-spit-on-pizza-ahead-of-flu-game-pizza-hut-manager-calls-it-a-bunch-of-crap-jordan-was-poisoned

 

Now that I think about it, anyone that has worked at a pizza place knows there usually aren't even five people working at a pizza place at 10:30 at night...  how could five people have joined in on the delivery back in 1997?  There weren't cell phones yet...  

 

And I guess Jordan had a history of spitting on his food so nobody else would eat it.  He also has a history of drinking.  I wonder if Jordan was drinking that night, a little too much, ate too much pizza too late, and ended up puking in the middle of the night and was hungover the next day...  

They got lucky to beat Utah that year, if Utah wins that Game 5 they probably win the series. Bulls pulled that game out of their rear end 90-88. Jordan was probably hungover  

[Lucky Colts Fan]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

They got lucky to beat Utah that year, if Utah wins that Game 5 they probably win the series. Bulls pulled that game out of their rear end 90-88. Jordan was probably hungover  

 

True.

 

Still, the fact that he could put on that performance in Game 5, in Utah, at less than 100% (probably hungover) is pretty damn impressive.

 

I watched that doc where Ric Flair admitted to drinking like 12 beers (while driving) on his way to work and was still able to perform...  these guys are on a different level... even when they're drunk/hungover!   ...  Never meet/get to know/watch a doc about your heroes...  

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

True.

 

Still, the fact that he could put on that performance in Game 5, in Utah, at less than 100% (probably hungover) is pretty damn impressive.

 

I watched that doc where Ric Flair admitted to drinking like 12 beers (while driving) on his way to work and was still able to perform...  these guys are on a different level... even when they're drunk/hungover!   ...  Never meet/get to know your heroes...  

 

Yeah with the series tied 2-2, the winner of Game 5's go on to win 85% of the time. Utah was a brutal place to play in back then. They hadn't lost a playoff game at home yet. Their fans were rabid. Utah actually had a 16 point lead in that game too. Jordan was awesome in the 4th.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Jordan was awesome in the 4th.

 

As a Pacers fan, it's painful to admit this... but Jordan was THE BEST in the 4th.

 

As good as Reg-gie was with the ball in his hands on the last possession of the game... Jordan was better...

 

I feel dirty typing that...  

 

[PrincetonTiger]

10 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

True.

 

Still, the fact that he could put on that performance in Game 5, in Utah, at less than 100% (probably hungover) is pretty damn impressive.

 

I watched that doc where Ric Flair admitted to drinking like 12 beers (while driving) on his way to work and was still able to perform...  these guys are on a different level... even when they're drunk/hungover!   ...  Never meet/get to know/watch a doc about your heroes...  

 

I did since most were athletes for and students of my Parents or had ties to The Tristate 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

As a Pacers fan, it's painful to admit this... but Jordan was THE BEST in the 4th.

 

As good as Reg-gie was with the ball in his hands on the last possession of the game... Jordan was better...

 

I feel dirty typing that...  

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I did since most were athletes for and students of my Parents or had ties to The Tristate 

 

Ken Dilger was one, right?  I have a few cousins that went to Heritage Hills.  

 

Still... they say never meet your heroes.  So I try not to put any of my idols on pedestals.  I love Peyton Manning, but I've heard a few rumors about things he did during his days in Indy that make me wish I'd never put him on a pedestal.  Still love the guy for everything he did while a Colt, but I also understand he's a human being, not a superhero.

 

Same reason I hate to see documentaries about Michael Jordan.  I idolized him as a kid.  I also idolized Reggie Miller, so hearing about some of his transgressions while he was a Pacer is heart-breaking.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

My list still stays the same as of today regarding greatest players, I have:

1. Michael Jordan

2. Magic Johnson

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4. LeBron James 

5. Kobe Bryant

-LeBron is the greatest player over the last decade. Dudes a beast in my top 4, but not even the 2nd best of all-time like ESPN and other media outlets lead you to believe. Magic is #2, he was more efficient than LeBron shooting a better FG% and FT%, went to the same amount of Finals = 9 and he won 5, LeBron has 3. LeBron will have inflated numbers because he will play probably 20 years, Magic will always be the leader in Assist average with 11.2 a season over 12.5 seasons. Magic won Finals MVP as a rookie when Kareem was injured scoring 42 Points, grabbing 15 Rebounds, and had 7 Assists in the closing game, that will never be done again. Magic did that playing Center by the way against grown men as in Dawkins and Doctor J at Philly, at that time Magic was only 20 years old  

[PrincetonTiger]

8 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Ken Dilger was one, right?  I have a few cousins that went to Heritage Hills.  

 

Still... they say never meet your heroes.  So I try not to put any of my idols on pedestals.  I love Peyton Manning, but I've heard a few rumors about things he did during his days in Indy that make me wish I'd never put him on a pedestal.  Still love the guy for everything he did while a Colt, but I also understand he's a human being, not a superhero.

 

Same reason I hate to see documentaries about Michael Jordan.  I idolized him as a kid.  I also idolized Reggie Miller, so hearing about some of his transgressions while he was a Pacer is heart-breaking.  

 You are correct

      It depends on the player

         There are great writings on Gil Hodges, Edd Rousch, Jim Abbott, and Larry Bird that actually made me like them more

             I keep one of the Gil Hodges works and the Abbott Autobiography on my display shelf with my Antique and Social Science Books

[chad72]

On 5/28/2020 at 1:09 AM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

As a Pacers fan, it's painful to admit this... but Jordan was THE BEST in the 4th.

 

As good as Reg-gie was with the ball in his hands on the last possession of the game... Jordan was better...

 

I feel dirty typing that...  

 

 

That is also the reason I would never place Lebron in the Top 5 all time, given his lack of clutch characteristics.

 

Miami - Wade or Ray Allen making critical 4th qtr. shots, Cleveland - in that comeback from 1-3 down, Kyrie Irving balled out during the critical moments in 4th quarters. Lebron was always more willing to pass it up than take the shot, I got the feeling. That rarely happened with Jordan or Kobe, they wanted that pressure and lived for those moments.

 

Lebron is a great facilitator and all round player but clutch shooter, he is not in the 4th qtr., IMO. He did however fare better in conference championships than NBA Finals, I felt in the 4th qtr., at least based on my eye test.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

That is also the reason I would never place Lebron in the Top 5 all time, given his lack of clutch characteristics.

 

Miami - Wade or Ray Allen making critical 4th qtr. shots, Cleveland - in that comeback from 1-3 down, Kyrie Irving balled out during the critical moments in 4th quarters. Lebron was always more willing to pass it up than take the shot, I got the feeling. That rarely happened with Jordan or Kobe, they wanted that pressure and lived for those moments.

 

Lebron is a great facilitator and all round player but clutch shooter, he is not in the 4th qtr., IMO. He did however fare better in conference championships than NBA Finals, I felt in the 4th qtr., at least based on my eye test.

I have LeBron 4th that is out of the players I have seen by my eye test and based on stats and championships as well. I have only been watching since 1977 so guys like Wilt and Russell do not factor in. My top 5 is:

1. Michael Jordan

2. Magic Johnson

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4. LeBron is here IMO

5. Kobe Bryant

6. Larry Bird

7. Shaq O'Neal

-Magic has to be #2 because not only was he more efficient than LeBron, his teams even more Championships 5-3. Magic was more clutch than LeBron, shot a better FG%, FT%, and is the all-time leader in Assist average with 11.2 per season. Magic also won Finals MVP as a rookie at 20 years old. He basically scored 20 points a night over his career too. Kareem won 6 Championships and 6 League MVP's, and is all-time leading scorer in NBA history, reason why I put Magic over him is because IMO Magic was the better player on most of the Lakers teams. LeBron deserves 4th because IMO he has been the best player of this generation like Kareem was in the 70's. Magic was in the 80's, and Jordan was in the 90's. Statistically LeBron may pass Kareem in scoring and LeBron has 4 League MVP's and 3 Championships. It is just different today though, players want to form super teams, LeBron didn't win a Championship until he joined Wade and Bosh in Miami. He even made a comment he would love to play with Jordan. He should've said he would want to beat Jordan. Any team LeBron is on will improve their win total by 12-15 games so he is great. When it comes to LeBron, Kobe, Bird, and Shaq it is a coin flip basically and all debatable. I could give a damn what ESPN says saying LeBron is #2, he isn't, Magic is and I could bring a ton of debate regarding that as posted above.