Cam Newton

[NewColtsFan]

57 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

What was my point again? If people want to use 2+ years ago as a measuring stick. What I stated isn't wrong. And if going by your measuring stick, outside of last year when Can was hurt, he's had more success while playing in the NFL the same time as Rivers 

 

I also mentioned Cams winning pedigree since college days. Another thing (National Champion) that Rivers or AL hasn't done. Why don't you deal with the facts that I mentioned. (Can winning in all levels of football)

 

Moreover, How many National Champ QBs end up in the Superbowl? 

 

Since we want to mention anyone who watches football. Let's see how well you know about your own former QB AL. WHAT WAS HIS LAST GAME IN COLLEGE, WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME?

 

Ill tell you. He played Oklahoma State cowboys against that old QB (I believe Weeden 24-27 yr old) with WR Justin Blackmon. Outcome Standford lost. The last past that AL threw in college was a pick INT.

 

sir, I watch alot of ball and don't rely on "experts" to tell me who is who, and how well they played, or how much they stink. I follow more than Colts in house players and will call out any one, team, or organization. You do want win more than a divisional title for the 40th time don't you?

 

Can is a winner. Made Kelvin Benjamin into a Pro Bowler, the funny part is the Colts went ahead a grabbed cams WR Funchess for a drive.

 

The way you see Cam "play the position" looks more like Mahomes, Jackson than Rivers. But go ahead.

 

Well....    you may watch a lot if football, but you have no idea what you’re talking about.   You never had.   If I responded to every wrong point in this post, I’d be writing for hours.

 

So, I’ll stick with the easy stuff to show you how wrong you are.   Andrew Luck’s last pass was not an interception.   He threw one interception in the Fiesta Bowl overtime loss to Oklahoma State.  That went to future first round pick Justin Gilbert.  OSU led the nation that year in turnovers that year with 41.  That game turned out to be one of Luck’s best in college:  27-31, 369 yards.  Nearly 90 percent completion percentage.   Stanford out gained OSU by nearly 200 yards.   Luck did not get outplayed by Brandon Weeden.  Stanford lost because we had a freshman kicker who played hurt — a torn groin muscle.  He missed two very easy field goals.  If he makes either one, Stanford wins.  
 

Look..   if you prefer Cam Newton over Andrew Luck that’s your call.   That’s your opinion.   But let’s at least get the facts right.  And with Luck, sorry, but you get everything wrong. 

[Superman]

52 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

What was my point again? If people want to use 2+ years ago as a measuring stick. What I stated isn't wrong. And if going by your measuring stick, outside of last year when Can was hurt, he's had more success while playing in the NFL the same time as Rivers 

 

I also mentioned Cams winning pedigree since college days. Another thing (National Champion) that Rivers or AL hasn't done. Why don't you deal with the facts that I mentioned. (Can winning in all levels of football)

 

Moreover, How many National Champ QBs end up in the Superbowl? 

 

Since we want to mention anyone who watches football. Let's see how well you know about your own former QB AL. WHAT WAS HIS LAST GAME IN COLLEGE, WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME?

 

Ill tell you. He played Oklahoma State cowboys against that old QB (I believe Weeden 24-27 yr old) with WR Justin Blackmon. Outcome Standford lost. The last past that AL threw in college was a pick INT.

 

sir, I watch alot of ball and don't rely on "experts" to tell me who is who, and how well they played, or how much they stink. I follow more than Colts in house players and will call out any one, team, or organization. You do want win more than a divisional title for the 40th time don't you?

 

Can is a winner. Made Kelvin Benjamin into a Pro Bowler, the funny part is the Colts went ahead a grabbed cams WR Funchess for a drive.

 

The way you see Cam "play the position" looks more like Mahomes, Jackson than Rivers. But go ahead.

 

 

I love the "independent thinker" fallacy, the whole 'I don't need other people to tell me who's good, unlike you' angle. Apparently, you also don't need current information.

 

To the bolded, I didn't directly address a lot of the things you said because they're entirely irrelevant.

 

1) Cam winning a national championship in college is irrelevant.

2) Cam winning MVP five years ago is irrelevant. 

3) The Panthers going to the SB five years ago is irrelevant.

4) Luck's career is irrelevant. (We're talking about Cam and Rivers, right?)

 

Cam brute-forced the league in his first few seasons, then added some efficiency in 2015 and had a really good year. Since then, his team has been .500 in games he's started, with no playoff wins. I don't blame that on him entirely, because QBs don't win or lose games on their own, but when you have to go back at least five years to support a player having a "winning pedigree," it's time to acknowledge that this so-called pedigree has no bearing on his present ability to play the game. 

 

Since 2015, Cam has been slightly above average as a passer. The last two seasons, he's been less than that, partly due to injury. 

 

And throughout his career, Cam has been a limited passer because of fundamental issues -- poor footwork, inconsistent accuracy, tendency to hold the ball too long, lack of ability to anticipate throws, and so on. 

 

Not sure why Mahomes and Jackson are brought into the discussion... you have a habit of throwing out red herrings. 

 

But both are athletic, mobile QBs with strong arms, who rely on their physical gifts to make great plays. Similar to Cam. Jackson has some work to do as a pro level passer. Mahomes is already twice the pro passer that Cam has ever been, because of accuracy, footwork, and anticipation. He's also better at avoiding contact because he doesn't play like a battering ram, and his production through two years as a starter has already dwarfed anything Cam has ever done. 

 

So to be clear, the way Mahomes plays isn't very much like the way Cam plays, at all. And I'll say again, anyone who watches them play -- and understands what they're watching -- knows this to be true.

 

And that comparison has nothing to do with Cam or Rivers as it pertains to the Colts.

 

Also, this is not and never has been a defense of Rivers. I have significant questions about his ability to play well for us. I stated those when the rumors about him coming to the Colts first started, and I haven't wavered there. My feelings about Rivers have little to do with my opinion of Cam.

 

I wouldn't have minded signing Cam (and I said that months ago as well). But that would have meant a major adjustment to Reich's offense, because Cam is a different kind of QB, with different strengths and weaknesses, and some injury concerns. Ultimately, I would have had just as many questions about Cam as I do about Rivers, just different questions. 

 

But the flimsy foundation of your argument is obvious when it centers around Cam's college career and a really good season five years ago. 

 

It's 2020. Adrian Peterson is no longer a 1,500 yard RB. Alex Smith is no longer holding the Chiefs back. Gary Kubiak has retired, and un-retired. The Chargers are no longer in San Diego, the Rams are no longer in St Louis, Jim Tomsula didn't last in San Francisco, the Bengals finally fired Marvin Lewis, the Bills even made the playoffs!

 

A lot has changed in the NFL in the last five years. One of those things: Cam Newton has not been a dominant QB since 2015.

[Rackeen305]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:38 PM, Superman said:

 

I love the "independent thinker" fallacy, the whole 'I don't need other people to tell me who's good, unlike you' angle. Apparently, you also don't need current information.

 

To the bolded, I didn't directly address a lot of the things you said because they're entirely irrelevant.

 

1) Cam winning a national championship in college is irrelevant.

2) Cam winning MVP five years ago is irrelevant. 

3) The Panthers going to the SB five years ago is irrelevant.

4) Luck's career is irrelevant. (We're talking about Cam and Rivers, right?)

 

Cam brute-forced the league in his first few seasons, then added some efficiency in 2015 and had a really good year. Since then, his team has been .500 in games he's started, with no playoff wins. I don't blame that on him entirely, because QBs don't win or lose games on their own, but when you have to go back at least five years to support a player having a "winning pedigree," it's time to acknowledge that this so-called pedigree has no bearing on his present ability to play the game. 

 

Since 2015, Cam has been slightly above average as a passer. The last two seasons, he's been less than that, partly due to injury. 

 

And throughout his career, Cam has been a limited passer because of fundamental issues -- poor footwork, inconsistent accuracy, tendency to hold the ball too long, lack of ability to anticipate throws, and so on. 

 

Not sure why Mahomes and Jackson are brought into the discussion... you have a habit of throwing out red herrings. 

 

But both are athletic, mobile QBs with strong arms, who rely on their physical gifts to make great plays. Similar to Cam. Jackson has some work to do as a pro level passer. Mahomes is already twice the pro passer that Cam has ever been, because of accuracy, footwork, and anticipation. He's also better at avoiding contact because he doesn't play like a battering ram, and his production through two years as a starter has already dwarfed anything Cam has ever done. 

 

So to be clear, the way Mahomes plays isn't very much like the way Cam plays, at all. And I'll say again, anyone who watches them play -- and understands what they're watching -- knows this to be true.

 

And that comparison has nothing to do with Cam or Rivers as it pertains to the Colts.

 

Also, this is not and never has been a defense of Rivers. I have significant questions about his ability to play well for us. I stated those when the rumors about him coming to the Colts first started, and I haven't wavered there. My feelings about Rivers have little to do with my opinion of Cam.

 

I wouldn't have minded signing Cam (and I said that months ago as well). But that would have meant a major adjustment to Reich's offense, because Cam is a different kind of QB, with different strengths and weaknesses, and some injury concerns. Ultimately, I would have had just as many questions about Cam as I do about Rivers, just different questions. 

 

But the flimsy foundation of your argument is obvious when it centers around Cam's college career and a really good season five years ago. 

 

It's 2020. Adrian Peterson is no longer a 1,500 yard RB. Alex Smith is no longer holding the Chiefs back. Gary Kubiak has retired, and un-retired. The Chargers are no longer in San Diego, the Rams are no longer in St Louis, Jim Tomsula didn't last in San Francisco, the Bengals finally fired Marvin Lewis, the Bills even made the playoffs!

 

A lot has changed in the NFL in the last five years. One of those things: Cam Newton has not been a dominant QB since 2015.

I'll make this one short. If you're saying Cam hasn't been dominant since 2015, news flash Rivers has never been dominant. And if you want to count the two years the chargers bounced the Colts out of the playoffs, were talking what 2005? When he had 2 hall of famers just on the offensive side of the ball (LT, Gates)? Hold the likes.

[Rackeen305]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:20 PM, NewColtsFan said:

Well....    you may watch a lot if football, but you have no idea what you’re talking about.   You never had.   If I responded to every wrong point in this post, I’d be writing for hours.

 

So, I’ll stick with the easy stuff to show you how wrong you are.   Andrew Luck’s last pass was not an interception.   He threw one interception in the Fiesta Bowl overtime loss to Oklahoma State.  That went to future first round pick Justin Gilbert.  OSU led the nation that year in turnovers that year with 41.  That game turned out to be one of Luck’s best in college:  27-31, 369 yards.  Nearly 90 percent completion percentage.   Stanford out gained OSU by nearly 200 yards.   Luck did not get outplayed by Brandon Weeden.  Stanford lost because we had a freshman kicker who played hurt — a torn groin muscle.  He missed two very easy field goals.  If he makes either one, Stanford wins.  
 

Look..   if you prefer Cam Newton over Andrew Luck that’s your call.   That’s your opinion.   But let’s at least get the facts right.  And with Luck, sorry, but you get everything wrong. 

So you said all that to say that luck's last past was not an INT. Bout was I wrong about everything else? Nope. AL last game was against Weeden's Oklahoma State Cowboys, where he played with WR Blackmon, and the outcome was exactly as I stated. So what was your point? You don't like what I said huh? Well change the outcome of the game so that you will be right.

[Rackeen305]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:03 PM, crazycolt1 said:

You sure searched for a lot of straws to defend a QB that has no better record than Brissett over the last five years. 

This is  a league of what have you done for me lately, not five years ago. 

So why on the heck has the Colts signed Rivers. According to all of you, the Colts believe Rivers "can" play at a level where he and coach Frank last left off. So that was how many years ago now? Stop it.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

So why on the heck has the Colts signed Rivers. According to all of you, the Colts believe Rivers "can" play at a level where he and coach Frank last left off. So that was how many years ago now? Stop it.

Rivers 2018 season was great, so he is not far removed from a great season.   Cam is. 

[chad72]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

Rivers 2018 season was great, so he is not far removed from a great season.   Cam is. 

 

1 year removed to 5 years removed, not that hard to do the math.  

 

Just goes to show you he hasn't been following Rivers but then Chargers are not that much of a media darling or fan favorite for their QB to be monitored closely enough.

[Superman]

44 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

If you're saying Cam hasn't been dominant since 2015, news flash Rivers has never been dominant.

 

So. What. 

 

The question about Rivers is whether he can regain the balance of efficiency and production he played with in 2018. 

 

You keep muddying the waters with nonsense. 

[chad72]

Just now, Superman said:

 

So. What. 

 

The question about Rivers is whether he can regain the balance of efficiency and production he played with in 2018. 

 

You keep muddying the waters with nonsense. 

 

In his own words, I am inferring he has not followed Rivers since the 2008 days and his comments are a by product of that, IMO.

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

In his own words, I am inferring he has not followed Rivers since the 2008 days and his comments are a by product of that, IMO.

 

Sprinkle in some 'Cam Newton is better than everybody the Colts have had" and I think that's probably it.

 

But it feels like there are better ways to approach that argument.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:20 PM, NewColtsFan said:

Well....    you may watch a lot if football, but you have no idea what you’re talking about.   You never had.   If I responded to every wrong point in this post, I’d be writing for hours.

 

So, I’ll stick with the easy stuff to show you how wrong you are.   Andrew Luck’s last pass was not an interception.   He threw one interception in the Fiesta Bowl overtime loss to Oklahoma State.  That went to future first round pick Justin Gilbert.  OSU led the nation that year in turnovers that year with 41.  That game turned out to be one of Luck’s best in college:  27-31, 369 yards.  Nearly 90 percent completion percentage.   Stanford out gained OSU by nearly 200 yards.   Luck did not get outplayed by Brandon Weeden.  Stanford lost because we had a freshman kicker who played hurt — a torn groin muscle.  He missed two very easy field goals.  If he makes either one, Stanford wins.  
 

Look..   if you prefer Cam Newton over Andrew Luck that’s your call.   That’s your opinion.   But let’s at least get the facts right.  And with Luck, sorry, but you get everything wrong. 

Going by their career's, Cam has accomplished more as in making a SB and winning a League MVP but I would take Luck over him if both were 100% healthy. Luck was just as athletic and was a more accurate passer. Luck still won a lot of games as a starter - he won 60% of his games. IMO Luck would've made a SB in 2014 had it not been for the Pats being in our conference. Cam never had to face the Pats or Denver in the playoffs to get to a SB. When he made the SB, Denver made him look mediocre. Luck and the Colts beat Denver at Denver in the 2014 playoffs.

 

Regarding Rivers vs Cam, as of today I would take Rivers. Like many of you said, he is just 1 year removed from having a good season. I would trust him in 2020 over Cam.

[Rackeen305]

30 minutes ago, w87r said:

Yeah they are.

 

noun

infliction of injury, harm, humiliation

 

your words below 

Seems to be a threat to come back and humiliate him, no? Mayne vengeance was to tough a word to describe it, but whatever.

 

Anyway, like your merits were wrong in the first place. Comparing Luck to Cam(irrelevant), and pulling information from multiple years past, while failing to acknowledge failings in recent years.

 

Your argument is still wrong.

(Not sure why it says quoted you crazy, was rackeen post)

 

It's not Superman's Rivers...

 

He clearly stated, as I stated above that he(superman) had/still has reservations about Rivers and wanted the Colts to consider Cam earlier in offseason.

 

Maybe you didn't mean Superman's Rivers, but his performance, but that's who you quoted and was going back and forth with. Makes no sense why you are going at him.

 

Again, he questioned the merit of your argument, not how they might perform.

 

So really not to sure where you are going with this?

Bro, why is it against the law to speak about football players, teams and decisions made by teams?

 

If I don't agree with said player, and I say you know what, instead of calling someone anything but their name, I'll just wait mid way through the season and see if said player works out.

 

But not this forum, if you tell anyone to keep their pick, I'll revisit halfway through to see if you are right, why is that criminal? Lol I know why.

 

Anyways I've given posters too much attention. Don't worry, I won't remind anyone about anything if that makes you feel better. I'll just wait until the end of year and see who makes what. I said Rivers at $25 Mill is over priced. I wanted to go a different direction but hay. We will see. (I hope this is politically correct now)

[Superman]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

If I read this thread right, Superman even stated he had reservations about bringing Rivers in and at one time wanted them to think about bringing Cam in? 

 

 

48 minutes ago, w87r said:

He clearly stated, as I stated above that he(superman) had/still has reservations about Rivers and wanted the Colts to consider Cam earlier in offseason.

 

 

^^^

 

Isn't it amazing what can be achieved when one actually reads another poster's comments?

 

1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

I hope you are keeping your stance that Rivers is the Colts guy.

 

That's not my stance.

 

Earlier in this thread:

 

On 7/13/2020 at 4:26 PM, Superman said:

I'm not sure about Rivers being the QB the Colts need

 

On 7/15/2020 at 12:38 PM, Superman said:

Also, this is not and never has been a defense of Rivers. I have significant questions about his ability to play well for us. I stated those when the rumors about him coming to the Colts first started, and I haven't wavered there

 

Another thread: I don't see Rivers as a solution to any of our problems.

 

Another thread: If we sign him, I'm on board. Just skeptical.

 

Another thread: He's a good fit. I can see this working well. But I have some concern about his ability to play at a high level, given his age and recent history.

 

Anyone acting like I've been out here cheerleading for Rivers is severely mistaken.

[w87r]

I personally try to never come on a topic that I was right about and be like, "I told you so".

 

It happens a lot around here(where posters do that, not something I was right about, lol), and this isn't directed at any 1 person. To each their own.

 

It's just not my style. Have I done it, sure, but I truly try and make a concerted effort to not be a "I told you soer".

 

I made a post in a thread and @NewColtsFan responded and gave me the facts.

 

 

I looked into it, and was quick to come back and admit I was wrong.

 

Like I said, I just take more value in someone admitting they are wrong, than the opposite.