Cam Newton

[EastStreet]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=29392926

 

funny about Brady and Cam (the new girl)

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

Colts have plenty of money to sign anyone they want right now.

 

JB contract is not prohibiting that at all.

 

They have came out and said they want to see what our young DE's can do. That is why we didn't bring in Clowney or Griffen, not because of Brissett's contract.

 

Again, if there was a player we wanted, we could sign them.

 

Cam Newton is so cheap, and didn't get offered a contract earlier, because he couldn't come in for a physical and most likely was wanting $20m+ when he was released.

Nobody can definitely say we have  the money to sign anyone we want. Yes, there is a standard salary cap, but teams model their needs years out, and ofteplan to carry over for the coming years. We have some rook contracts coming up that won't be cheap. We have some key positions that will be FAs or perhaps retiring that will require new, and likely expensive FAs (the draft won't cover them all). Take a look at the below. We aren't really that rich given what's expiring over the next two years.

 

We have 108 for next year.

 

Rivers - could be 30 of next year's cap (taking it 78) if he does well.

 

Hilton - FA next year, so could be an extension (would be 15ish if he has a good year and we extend, taking it 63).

 

Houston - FA next year. If he plays well this year, we could see a short term extension for 13ish (now 50). 

 

Autry - should see a decent amount of snaps in both DE and DT this year. We don't have another flex player like him except maybe Lewis, who hasn't shown anything. He's making 6 now, and I can't see him taking much less (now 43).

 

Day and Stewart are both FAs next year, so our entire 2 deep at NT is up extension or replacement. Let's assume we spend at least 3M at DT. (now 40).

 

Hooker - If he bounces back, he'll likely command 10M. (now 30). Odum is also a FA and is 2nd depth.

 

Rhodes is a FA - We'll spend at least 3M on him or another CB to start (unless Rogers comes on strong).

 

Kelly is a FA - He'll command top 5 pay, so there's another 11 or 12M. (now 18).

 

Mack, Walker, Burton, MAC, Pascal, as well as others are all FAs too. 

 

That's just 2021. In 2022 Nelson, AC, Braden Smith, Glow are all up for contracts. Yes, 4 of our 5 OL. Nelson will set the market for OGs (between 15-20M). Smith will command a decent amount, at least 10M imo. Then we either have to replace or resign AC. Then add in Leonard who will likely get 20ishM. Turay is up to, and could be expensive if he emerges this year. If not, we'll need to pay someone regardless. And Hines is up too.

 

Again, we really don't have a lot of spare $$. Let's hope some of the draft picks really come on.

[Myles]

19 hours ago, EastStreet said:

LOL, I'll never lose sleep over anything football. I sleep like a baby. Just saying, financially it's a negative that can preclude us from improving in other areas of obvious need. If you don't care about improving the roster, or at minimum having increased carryover for future contracts, OK. 

The Colts are still under the cap and they are not signing other players. 

The money they are paying JB is not stopping them.  The amount they gave JB was too much, but it did not affect the team, just the owners pockets.  

[EastStreet]

On 7/2/2020 at 10:00 AM, Myles said:

The Colts are still under the cap and they are not signing other players. 

The money they are paying JB is not stopping them.  The amount they gave JB was too much, but it did not affect the team, just the owners pockets.  

See post above. 

[Myles]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

See post above. 

Do you think that without giving JB the $$ they did, they would have extended contracts this year instead of next?

I suppose it is possible.   

Or maybe you think that Irsay told Ballard that he did not want to get near the cap no matter what and Ballard was ordered to be $24,000 under the cap no matter what.  

 

I don't know.   I just seen it as using cap space that wasn't going to be used.   I still thought it was a bad move.  I wonder if it was a "good faith" move.   Thinking that if JB did as well as some thought he would, it would be easier to extend him if he was.  JB is a good level headed and loyal guy and I think he would have opted to sign a reasonable contract rather than play free agency.

[EastStreet]

25 minutes ago, Myles said:

Do you think that without giving JB the $$ they did, they would have extended contracts this year instead of next?

I suppose it is possible.   

Or maybe you think that Irsay told Ballard that he did not want to get near the cap no matter what and Ballard was ordered to be $24,000 under the cap no matter what.  

 

I don't know.   I just seen it as using cap space that wasn't going to be used.   I still thought it was a bad move.  I wonder if it was a "good faith" move.   Thinking that if JB did as well as some thought he would, it would be easier to extend him if he was.  JB is a good level headed and loyal guy and I think he would have opted to sign a reasonable contract rather than play free agency.

It's not really only about using cap space that wasn't going to be used. A whole lot of things factor, and honestly we just don't know what the financial modelers have planned. Carryover is probably getting more and more important looking ahead. What we do know, is that 2021 and 2022 will be years of either costly extensions, and/or FA turnover (which will likely be costly). 

 

Having 4 of 5 of our starting OL come up on FA in 2021 is pretty scary lol. And 5 of 5 in 20 and 21. With 4 of those likely getting top 5 or 10 at their positions. That, and having only Eason and Kelly under contract next year lol. 

[Myles]

25 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It's not really only about using cap space that wasn't going to be used. A whole lot of things factor, and honestly we just don't know what the financial modelers have planned. Carryover is probably getting more and more important looking ahead. What we do know, is that 2021 and 2022 will be years of either costly extensions, and/or FA turnover (which will likely be costly). 

 

Having 4 of 5 of our starting OL come up on FA in 2021 is pretty scary lol. And 5 of 5 in 20 and 21. With 4 of those likely getting top 5 or 10 at their positions. That, and having only Eason and Kelly under contract next year lol. 

Yeah.   The good drafting of Ballard will bite us in the butt soon.   Too many will demand (rightfully so) lots of cash and difficult decision will need to be made.   I think Smith will get offered top dollar by many teams, same with Nelson, Leonard and several others.   I'm fine with Eason and Kelly being the only QB's under contract next season.   Not much cash invested there.   Eason could prove to be a starter talent.   But either way, with only about a million in QB cap hit, the team could bring a veteran in or resign Rivers.   I think Kelly is a free agent after this season.

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

Yeah.   The good drafting of Ballard will bite us in the butt soon.   Too many will demand (rightfully so) lots of cash and difficult decision will need to be made.   I think Smith will get offered top dollar by many teams, same with Nelson, Leonard and several others.   I'm fine with Eason and Kelly being the only QB's under contract next season.   Not much cash invested there.   Eason could prove to be a starter talent.   But either way, with only about a million in QB cap hit, the team could bring a veteran in or resign Rivers.   I think Kelly is a free agent after this season.

 

Yup, drafting well bites you, but I'll take it.

 

On OL, Q will set the market for $. Smith will be paid top 5 at RT. Kelly top 5 or better at C. We'll either spend a boatload convincing AC to stay longer, use high draft capital, or spend big in FA for LT. Glow is aging, so hoping Pinter develops over the next two years. If so, that could be at least one cheap guy. If not, another FA. Depth is still pretty scary. 

 

At QB, I'm not worried about having Kelly and Eason under contract, as they cost little. I'm worried about not having anyone else lol. If Rivers does well, he'll get 30M next year. And he doesn't, we'll be shopping again, perhaps for a guy like Carr. I don't see Eason being ready after one year, especially a year when we have JB under contract, and Eason simply won't get snaps after a shortened pre-season.

 

All the other guys are a tad bit concerning too. I know it's part of the game, but outside of Buckner, Doyle, and Rock, we have like zero proven guys under contract for more than 2 years. 

[dw49]

On 6/30/2020 at 8:54 PM, NewColtsFan said:

The $1 million is the base salary.   Reportedly,  there are reachable incentives to $7.5 million. 
 

 

Yes , I know he can earn up to 7.5 million. But that probably means he would be the starter for at least half the year ?  That is insane pay .... either way it's horrible.

 What I said was "he MIGHT be paid 1 million per year." This contract is almost embarrassing as it's so much under market value. What even decent back up not on his rookie contract makes around a million ?  I read somewhere that covid really hurt him as he couldn't work out for teams. 

[Myles]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Yup, drafting well bites you, but I'll take it.

 

On OL, Q will set the market for $. Smith will be paid top 5 at RT. Kelly top 5 or better at C. We'll either spend a boatload convincing AC to stay longer, use high draft capital, or spend big in FA for LT. Glow is aging, so hoping Pinter develops over the next two years. If so, that could be at least one cheap guy. If not, another FA. Depth is still pretty scary. 

 

At QB, I'm not worried about having Kelly and Eason under contract, as they cost little. I'm worried about not having anyone else lol. If Rivers does well, he'll get 30M next year. And he doesn't, we'll be shopping again, perhaps for a guy like Carr. I don't see Eason being ready after one year, especially a year when we have JB under contract, and Eason simply won't get snaps after a shortened pre-season.

 

All the other guys are a tad bit concerning too. I know it's part of the game, but outside of Buckner, Doyle, and Rock, we have like zero proven guys under contract for more than 2 years. 

I guess it's a good problem.   So much talent that you cannot afford to keep it all.   We'll have to trust that Ballard can continue to draft/sign good talent.   Not sure what your thoughts on Moore are, but at least we have him for the next 4 years.   

 

I like Kelly, but I am not as much as a fan as most are.  I'd be fine if he was the one who we replaced as opposed to Nelson or Smith.  It would be horrible to lose him though.   

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

I guess it's a good problem.   So much talent that you cannot afford to keep it all.   We'll have to trust that Ballard can continue to draft/sign good talent.   Not sure what your thoughts on Moore are, but at least we have him for the next 4 years.   

 

I like Kelly, but I am not as much as a fan as most are.  I'd be fine if he was the one who we replaced as opposed to Nelson or Smith.  It would be horrible to lose him though.   

Good catch, I forgot about Moore. I love Moore. I think some might over hype him, but he's a top 5-10 NB without a doubt. And we play a whole lot of nickel.

 

I like Kelly, but I agree priorities should be Nelson, LT, Smith, Kelly, and RG. I know all the talk about Pinter is at RG, but I'd like to see him try C as well. I think he could play any of the interior within a year or two, and even T in a pinch.

 

And yes, it's better to have the problem, than not have it lol. It just seems like we have a very large amount of guys coming up. More than I can remember.

[Thunderbolt]

NE got a bargain in Cam, more so than what we have in JB, something is wrong with this picture.  "1" Mil compare to 20 mil.  Yikes.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Thunderbolt said:

NE got a bargain in Cam, more so than what we have in JB, something is wrong with this picture.  "1" Mil compare to 20 mil.  Yikes.

The value is pretty incredible. Would anyone really be shocked if Cam started and did well? Nope.

 

I think Bill Belichick got tired of hearing all the Brady/TB chatter, and said.... "OK guys, watch this" lol. 

 

I'll be hoping that both TB and NE have horrible seasons lol

 

Strange times.

[Superman]

On 7/3/2020 at 11:21 AM, EastStreet said:

It's not really only about using cap space that wasn't going to be used. A whole lot of things factor, and honestly we just don't know what the financial modelers have planned. Carryover is probably getting more and more important looking ahead. What we do know, is that 2021 and 2022 will be years of either costly extensions, and/or FA turnover (which will likely be costly). 

 

Having 4 of 5 of our starting OL come up on FA in 2021 is pretty scary lol. And 5 of 5 in 20 and 21. With 4 of those likely getting top 5 or 10 at their positions. That, and having only Eason and Kelly under contract next year lol. 

 

They probably overshot their mark with the JB deal, by quite a bit. I always agreed with the cap strategy fo extending him, but I thought they'd give him something like $12m for an extra year, not $28m. They probably also could have gotten away with a different guarantee structure that didn't lock them in for most of that money. Worst case scenario, cap-wise, is he lights it up in 2019 and they tag him for $28m anyway. I don't think he had a market to justify that extension. 

 

They also considered some intangibles, like the locker room and culture, and paying JB after Luck's retirement was probably a good move. But I didn't think they had to give him that much. 

 

Even still, let's split the difference and say they could have gotten him in two years, $20m. We're talking about an extra $10m to work with. 

 

With Covid, that extra $10m might be an issue. Last thing I read was the league is preparing for revenue to decrease by $2-4bm each year over the next two seasons. That might mean a cap reduction of $60m/year. They're talking with the NFLPA about ways to spread that out over several seasons, which is what they did after the 2011 CBA. So maybe it's a year reduction of $30m, that lasts for four seasons. Either way, while teams were preparing for a 2021 cap between $210-240m (based on projections of increased revenue and a higher split to the players), that might be as little as $180m in 2021. But probably more like $200m, assuming there is a 2020 season.

 

So the Colts have this long line of FAs in 2021, plus third year guys eligible for extensions, and while they thought they'd have over $100m to work with, it might be something like $70m. An extra $10m might have come in handy. But it's not really going to change the shape of the team, or the team's trajectory.

 

But in late August 2019, no one was expecting our present reality. I'm also not suggesting it's ever okay to blow $10m in player salary. Just saying that I don't think that overpaying JB is a disaster.

 

Realistically, they're going to keep Hilton, R. Kelly, and maybe Rivers and Walker in 2021, and everyone else is going to have to find a new team (with some small exceptions). And then between 2021 and 2022, they're going to make sure Nelson and Leonard get extended. Smith and Glowinski have a long way to go before they earn extensions, IMO. It would be nice if Turay and Lewis are foundational pieces at that point, but right now they are not. 

 

We're going from having no one to pay to having a lot of guys to pay, and that means some good players will leave. That's what happens when you draft well over multiple years. The pandemic might add to that pain. Overpaying JB by $10m or so isn't going to be a major factor. Maybe it costs us another year of Justin Houston, when he's 33 years old. It won't cost us one of our young star players. 

[EastStreet]

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They probably overshot their mark with the JB deal, by quite a bit. I always agreed with the cap strategy fo extending him, but I thought they'd give him something like $12m for an extra year, not $28m. They probably also could have gotten away with a different guarantee structure that didn't lock them in for most of that money. Worst case scenario, cap-wise, is he lights it up in 2019 and they tag him for $28m anyway. I don't think he had a market to justify that extension. 

 

They also considered some intangibles, like the locker room and culture, and paying JB after Luck's retirement was probably a good move. But I didn't think they had to give him that much. 

 

Even still, let's split the difference and say they could have gotten him in two years, $20m. We're talking about an extra $10m to work with. 

 

With Covid, that extra $10m might be an issue. Last thing I read was the league is preparing for revenue to decrease by $2-4bm each year over the next two seasons. That might mean a cap reduction of $60m/year. They're talking with the NFLPA about ways to spread that out over several seasons, which is what they did after the 2011 CBA. So maybe it's a year reduction of $30m, that lasts for four seasons. Either way, while teams were preparing for a 2021 cap between $210-240m (based on projections of increased revenue and a higher split to the players), that might be as little as $180m in 2021. But probably more like $200m, assuming there is a 2020 season.

 

So the Colts have this long line of FAs in 2021, plus third year guys eligible for extensions, and while they thought they'd have over $100m to work with, it might be something like $70m. An extra $10m might have come in handy. But it's not really going to change the shape of the team, or the team's trajectory.

 

But in late August 2019, no one was expecting our present reality. I'm also not suggesting it's ever okay to blow $10m in player salary. Just saying that I don't think that overpaying JB is a disaster.

 

Realistically, they're going to keep Hilton, R. Kelly, and maybe Rivers and Walker in 2021, and everyone else is going to have to find a new team (with some small exceptions). And then between 2021 and 2022, they're going to make sure Nelson and Leonard get extended. Smith and Glowinski have a long way to go before they earn extensions, IMO. It would be nice if Turay and Lewis are foundational pieces at that point, but right now they are not. 

 

We're going from having no one to pay to having a lot of guys to pay, and that means some good players will leave. That's what happens when you draft well over multiple years. The pandemic might add to that pain. Overpaying JB by $10m or so isn't going to be a major factor. Maybe it costs us another year of Justin Houston, when he's 33 years old. It won't cost us one of our young star players. 

It's definitely not end-of-world type stuff, but it is an impact. Even the loss of a solid DE like Houston for a year could be a major impact when we have zero proven DEs right now besides him. Like I said, we don't know what the financial modeling looks like for the next couple years, but eating 10M stinks lol. I was OK with the extension too, just not the total amount, and not the guarantees. I would have loved to see some incentive based elements that could bring him up where he is had he succeeded. Oh well. Sheet happens.

[Rackeen305]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:14 PM, dw49 said:

I'm saying he's a gut cinch to sign with NE. They must be just working the details out as there's no way NE wouldn't have taken one of those QB's outside the first round.

I just appreciate folks who speak their mind freely. Not following the crowd or popular opinion.

 

Great call here @dw49. You called it.

[dw49]

2 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

I just appreciate folks who speak their mind freely. Not following the crowd or popular opinion.

 

Great call here @dw49. You called it.

 

Thank you young man.

What did you think of that contract he signed ? Utterly insane ? He earns about a million and in order to hit an incentive for I think 3.75 mill , he has to play 90% of the snaps , starts 11 games and the Pats have to make the playoffs. Leave it to the Pats to "hit a guy when he's down ?"  I know the market dried up but that's terrible..

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/nfl-rumors-cam-newtons-contract-incentives-patriots-revealed

[Rackeen305]

22 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

Thank you young man.

What did you think of that contract he signed ? Utterly insane ? He earns about a million and in order to hit an incentive for I think 3.75 mill , he has to play 90% of the snaps , starts 11 games and the Pats have to make the playoffs. Leave it to the Pats to "hit a guy when he's down ?"  I know the market dried up but that's terrible..

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/nfl-rumors-cam-newtons-contract-incentives-patriots-revealed

Pats know (make) the rules better than any team lol. They find the fine line and milk it.

 

With that being said, Newton signed for less than $4M if the reports are accurate, and Rivers signed for $25M. Let that sink in.

 

I just hope that Rivers have a solid season since some folks complained about signing JB on a 2yr/$30M contract when the Colts had no other option. But signing Rivers for $25Ms and not a whole lot of complaining.

 

Skill wise, I hope Rivers have a better season than JB (last year) and he absolutely needs to have a better season than Cam. 

[Myles]

12 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Pats know (make) the rules better than any team lol. They find the fine line and milk it.

 

With that being said, Newton signed for less than $4M if the reports are accurate, and Rivers signed for $25M. Let that sink in.

 

I just hope that Rivers have a solid season since some folks complained about signing JB on a 2yr/$30M contract when the Colts had no other option. But signing Rivers for $25Ms and not a whole lot of complaining.

 

Skill wise, I hope Rivers have a better season than JB (last year) and he absolutely needs to have a better season than Cam. 

I guess the comparison between Cam's money and Philips money is OK now, after the fact.   Can wouldn't have signed that deal a couple months ago.  All the suitors dried up and he had no leverage.    The Colts did pay a premium for Rivers, but the $$ only affects Irsays wallet.   I think that cap space would have stayed unspent.  The team still has unspent $$ that they are not using.  

[dw49]

4 hours ago, Myles said:

I guess the comparison between Cam's money and Philips money is OK now, after the fact.   Can wouldn't have signed that deal a couple months ago.  All the suitors dried up and he had no leverage.    The Colts did pay a premium for Rivers, but the $$ only affects Irsays wallet.   I think that cap space would have stayed unspent.  The team still has unspent $$ that they are not using.  

 

They could have carried money over or used ing to extend some players . That cap money was spent on Rivers and if he's washed up , it will hurt the team in the long run. So IMO a little more than Irsay's bank account,

[dw49]

4 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Pats know (make) the rules better than any team lol. They find the fine line and milk it.

 

With that being said, Newton signed for less than $4M if the reports are accurate, and Rivers signed for $25M. Let that sink in.

 

I just hope that Rivers have a solid season since some folks complained about signing JB on a 2yr/$30M contract when the Colts had no other option. But signing Rivers for $25Ms and not a whole lot of complaining.

 

Skill wise, I hope Rivers have a better season than JB (last year) and he absolutely needs to have a better season than Cam. 

 

If the main point you are making is that you think we may have over paid for Rivers , it not doubt has merit. I wonder who we were bidding against when the numbers were reaching the mid twenties ? May a bidding war between Indianapolis and the Colts ? I was very surprised he was able to command a 1 year deal for that kind of money. If he does great and the team makes at run at it , no big deal if we overpaid by what... around 7 mill IMO. If he's washed up , it will no doubt looked at as a  gaffle.

[crazycolt1]

How many of you guys really care what Cam Newton is making? 

Why do you even care what the Patriots do and don't do? 

Some of you have an obsession with the Patriots like they have gotten into your heads. 

 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

If the main point you are making is that you think we may have over paid for Rivers , it not doubt has merit. I wonder who we were bidding against when the numbers were reaching the mid twenties ? May a bidding war between Indianapolis and the Colts ? I was very surprised he was able to command a 1 year deal for that kind of money. If he does great and the team makes at run at it , no big deal if we overpaid by what... around 7 mill IMO. If he's washed up , it will no doubt looked at as a  gaffle.

 

If he's bad, it's a bad signing, even if he signed for $5m instead of $25m. This team might be just a good QB away from being a real contender, and if we signed the wrong one, we're blowing a shot in a year where the AFC could be wide open.

 

But for a veteran QB with some statistical accomplishments, $25m for one year isn't hard to justify. Prime-age QBs were already coming in at low to mid 30s. Teddy Bridgewater got $21m. Ryan Tannehill got $29.5m/year for handing off to Derrick Henry. Two years ago, Alex Smith got $23.5m/year. Drew Brees and Tom Brady seem like the best comps for Rivers, and they both signed for exactly $25m/year. 

 

I feel like that's exactly his market. If Brady stayed with New England, I would have seen Rivers and the Bucs being a natural fit. 

 

I'm not sure about Rivers being the QB the Colts need, although I understand the match between him and the staff. I don't think there's any match between this staff and someone like Cam Newton, for a variety of reasons, so I don't think the comparison works. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If he's bad, it's a bad signing, even if he signed for $5m instead of $25m. This team might be just a good QB away from being a real contender, and if we signed the wrong one, we're blowing a shot in a year where the AFC could be wide open.

 

But for a veteran QB with some statistical accomplishments, $25m for one year isn't hard to justify. Prime-age QBs were already coming in at low to mid 30s. Teddy Bridgewater got $21m. Ryan Tannehill got $29.5m/year for handing off to Derrick Henry. Two years ago, Alex Smith got $23.5m/year. Drew Brees and Tom Brady seem like the best comps for Rivers, and they both signed for exactly $25m/year. 

 

I feel like that's exactly his market. If Brady stayed with New England, I would have seen Rivers and the Bucs being a natural fit. 

 

I'm not sure about Rivers being the QB the Colts need, although I understand the match between him and the staff. I don't think there's any match between this staff and someone like Cam Newton, for a variety of reasons, so I don't think the comparison works. 

I think we chose the right QB but only time will tell. He is familiar with our staff and we have a great O.line. 25 Mill is a lot but if he does stink, he is off the books after 2020.

[dw49]

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If he's bad, it's a bad signing, even if he signed for $5m instead of $25m. This team might be just a good QB away from being a real contender, and if we signed the wrong one, we're blowing a shot in a year where the AFC could be wide open.

 

But for a veteran QB with some statistical accomplishments, $25m for one year isn't hard to justify. Prime-age QBs were already coming in at low to mid 30s. Teddy Bridgewater got $21m. Ryan Tannehill got $29.5m/year for handing off to Derrick Henry. Two years ago, Alex Smith got $23.5m/year. Drew Brees and Tom Brady seem like the best comps for Rivers, and they both signed for exactly $25m/year. 

 

I feel like that's exactly his market. If Brady stayed with New England, I would have seen Rivers and the Bucs being a natural fit. 

 

I'm not sure about Rivers being the QB the Colts need, although I understand the match between him and the staff. I don't think there's any match between this staff and someone like Cam Newton, for a variety of reasons, so I don't think the comparison works. 

 

I forgot that Bridgewater and Tannehill signings , so your correct that my figure of 18mill is low.But I do think Brady and Brees should be paid more. But maybe not as I'm too lazy to compare their contracts. Rivers is just a 1 year deal so kinda hard to gage vs the other 2 guys .. I guess ?

 

[w87r]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

I feel like that's exactly his market. If Brady stayed with New England, I would have seen Rivers and the Bucs being a natural fit. 

I agree.

 

Money is fine too, IMO.

[Superman]

46 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I forgot that Bridgewater and Tannehill signings , so your correct that my figure of 18mill is low.But I do think Brady and Brees should be paid more. But maybe not as I'm too lazy to compare their contracts. Rivers is just a 1 year deal so kinda hard to gage vs the other 2 guys .. I guess ?

 

 

If they wanted more, they could have gotten more, I think. The Raiders would have paid Brady whatever he wanted, Titans would have gone pretty high... Brees was never leaving NO, so I don't know what kind of bidding war he could have sparked.

[Rackeen305]

5 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

If the main point you are making is that you think we may have over paid for Rivers , it not doubt has merit. I wonder who we were bidding against when the numbers were reaching the mid twenties ? May a bidding war between Indianapolis and the Colts ? I was very surprised he was able to command a 1 year deal for that kind of money. If he does great and the team makes at run at it , no big deal if we overpaid by what... around 7 mill IMO. If he's washed up , it will no doubt looked at as a  gaffle.

 

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

How many of you guys really care what Cam Newton is making? 

Why do you even care what the Patriots do and don't do? 

Some of you have an obsession with the Patriots like they have gotten into your heads. 

 

My point is this. Many people think or hope that Rivers performs as he was 2 years+ ago. If judging players from 2 years+ ago is the measuring stick, Cam was a better player as he took a lesser team (talent wise compared to the Chargers) to the Superbowl. Same year becoming league MVP.

 

Another thing. Since we know who AL is, who were many people comparing AL to body wise (Speed, strength,etc) upon entering the NFL? Cam Newton. They were comparing frames, even 40 times. Cam is a National Championship winner, 1st overall pick, goes to the Superbowl, League MVP. These are all things that Rivers never lived up to subsequently. Once again, Once you go 1st overall 9/10 times your team is the worst in the league. Cam took his team to the Superbowl, Something not even AL did. No chaser.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

If judging players from 2 years+ ago is the measuring stick, Cam was a better player as he took a lesser team (talent wise compared to the Chargers) to the Superbowl. Same year becoming league MVP.

 

Weak.

 

First, the Panthers went to the SB five years ago. You know who else got MVP votes that year? Carson Palmer. Cam having a good year five years ago is irrelevant.

 

Second, Cam's efficiency and ability to get wins in 2015 was pretty much an outlier year. 

 

Quote

Another thing. Since we know who AL is, who were many people comparing AL to body wise (Speed, strength,etc) upon entering the NFL? Cam Newton. They were comparing frames, even 40 times. 

 

Because QBs being physically similar is all that matters when it comes to in game performance...

 

Cam and Luck had a lot of similarities in the way they played QB. Also a lot of differences. Anyone who watched them play knows this. 

 

I'm not sure what this comparison has to do with Rivers.

 

I also don't know why you're not acknowledging the clear issues that Cam has with playing QB in the NFL. Instead, you're acting like "MVP! #1 pick! Went to the SB!" means that there are no issues with the way he plays the position.

[chad72]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Weak.

 

First, the Panthers went to the SB five years ago. You know who else got MVP votes that year? Carson Palmer. Cam having a good year five years ago is irrelevant.

 

Second, Cam's efficiency and ability to get wins in 2015 was pretty much an outlier year. 

 

 

Because QBs being physically similar is all that matters when it comes to in game performance...

 

Cam and Luck had a lot of similarities in the way they played QB. Also a lot of differences. Anyone who watched them play knows this. 

 

I'm not sure what this comparison has to do with Rivers.

 

I also don't know why you're not acknowledging the clear issues that Cam has with playing QB in the NFL. Instead, you're acting like "MVP! #1 pick! Went to the SB!" means that there are no issues with the way he plays the position.

 

Yep. Cam is 5 years removed from that MVP year, Rivers is just 1 year removed from a Pro Bowl season. Considerable difference like you pointed out. 

[dw49]

12 hours ago, Superman said:

 

If they wanted more, they could have gotten more, I think. The Raiders would have paid Brady whatever he wanted, Titans would have gone pretty high... Brees was never leaving NO, so I don't know what kind of bidding war he could have sparked.

 

If that's the case , why would you say that Rivers received what he should have and cite Brady and Brees making 25 million ? I can see your logic citing Tannehill and Bridgewater contract but Brady and Bress making the same IMO does nothing to justify Rivers getting that same 25 mill. 

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

If that's the case , why would you say that Rivers received what he should have and cite Brady and Brees making 25 million ? I can see your logic citing Tannehill and Bridgewater contract but Brady and Bress making the same IMO does nothing to justify Rivers getting that same 25 mill. 

Well, if that is the market for old good QB's then it kind of makes sense.   

[Superman]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

If that's the case , why would you say that Rivers received what he should have and cite Brady and Brees making 25 million ? I can see your logic citing Tannehill and Bridgewater contract but Brady and Bress making the same IMO does nothing to justify Rivers getting that same 25 mill. 

 

You said maybe they should be paid more. I was just making the case for Brady specifically having multiple suitors who might have been willing to pay him more. I don't think he went around looking for the most money, he just wanted to find a good fit. 

[dw49]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You said maybe they should be paid more. I was just making the case for Brady specifically having multiple suitors who might have been willing to pay him more. I don't think he went around looking for the most money, he just wanted to find a good fit. 

 

No doubt Brady's main criteria was a good fit and not money. I'm sure he would have signed for anything that was close to his market value. He and his wife have a net worth of around 600 million , plus he was never about the money. 100% for sure , money was the issue .

 

[dw49]

8 hours ago, Myles said:

Well, if that is the market for old good QB's then it kind of makes sense.   

 

Sure , why not...

[Rackeen305]

On 7/14/2020 at 1:52 AM, Superman said:

 

Weak.

 

First, the Panthers went to the SB five years ago. You know who else got MVP votes that year? Carson Palmer. Cam having a good year five years ago is irrelevant.

 

Second, Cam's efficiency and ability to get wins in 2015 was pretty much an outlier year. 

 

 

Because QBs being physically similar is all that matters when it comes to in game performance...

 

Cam and Luck had a lot of similarities in the way they played QB. Also a lot of differences. Anyone who watched them play knows this. 

 

I'm not sure what this comparison has to do with Rivers.

 

I also don't know why you're not acknowledging the clear issues that Cam has with playing QB in the NFL. Instead, you're acting like "MVP! #1 pick! Went to the SB!" means that there are no issues with the way he plays the position.

What was my point again? If people want to use 2+ years ago as a measuring stick. What I stated isn't wrong. And if going by your measuring stick, outside of last year when Can was hurt, he's had more success while playing in the NFL the same time as Rivers 

 

I also mentioned Cams winning pedigree since college days. Another thing (National Champion) that Rivers or AL hasn't done. Why don't you deal with the facts that I mentioned. (Can winning in all levels of football)

 

Moreover, How many National Champ QBs end up in the Superbowl? 

 

Since we want to mention anyone who watches football. Let's see how well you know about your own former QB AL. WHAT WAS HIS LAST GAME IN COLLEGE, WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME?

 

Ill tell you. He played Oklahoma State cowboys against that old QB (I believe Weeden 24-27 yr old) with WR Justin Blackmon. Outcome Standford lost. The last past that AL threw in college was a pick INT.

 

sir, I watch alot of ball and don't rely on "experts" to tell me who is who, and how well they played, or how much they stink. I follow more than Colts in house players and will call out any one, team, or organization. You do want win more than a divisional title for the 40th time don't you?

 

Can is a winner. Made Kelvin Benjamin into a Pro Bowler, the funny part is the Colts went ahead a grabbed cams WR Funchess for a drive.

 

The way you see Cam "play the position" looks more like Mahomes, Jackson than Rivers. But go ahead.

 

[Myles]

7 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

What was my point again? If people want to use 2+ years ago as a measuring stick. What I stated isn't wrong. And if going by your measuring stick, outside of last year when Can was hurt, he's had more success while playing in the NFL the same time as Rivers 

 

I also mentioned Cams winning pedigree since college days. Another thing (National Champion) that Rivers or AL hasn't done. Why don't you deal with the facts that I mentioned. (Can winning in all levels of football)

 

Moreover, How many National Champ QBs end up in the Superbowl? 

 

Since we want to mention anyone who watches football. Let's see how well you know about your own former QB AL. WHAT WAS HIS LAST GAME IN COLLEGE, WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME?

 

Ill tell you. He played Oklahoma State cowboys against that old QB (I believe Weeden 24-27 yr old) with WR Justin Blackmon. Outcome Standford lost. The last past that AL threw in college was a pick INT.

 

sir, I watch alot of ball and don't rely on "experts" to tell me who is who, and how well they played, or how much they stink. I follow more than Colts in house players and will call out any one, team, or organization. You do want win more than a divisional title for the 40th time don't you?

 

Can is a winner. Made Kelvin Benjamin into a Pro Bowler, the funny part is the Colts went ahead a grabbed cams WR Funchess for a drive.

 

The way you see Cam "play the position" looks more like Mahomes, Jackson than Rivers. But go ahead.

 

Much of what you say is correct, but may not mean Cam is the better QB right now.    Cam is .500 the past 46 games he has started.  So his "winner" game play has disappeared over the past 4 years.  His style of play requires the offense to be suited to him.   The Colts are not there and Rivers fit into the Colts offense much better.   

[Rackeen305]

18 minutes ago, Myles said:

Much of what you say is correct, but may not mean Cam is the better QB right now.    Cam is .500 the past 46 games he has started.  So his "winner" game play has disappeared over the past 4 years.  His style of play requires the offense to be suited to him.   The Colts are not there and Rivers fit into the Colts offense much better.   

You sir dealt with my statements hate it or love it, you have a point.

[Myles]

17 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

You sir dealt with my statements hate it or love it, you have a point.

Everyone can have an opinion.   The world would be boring if we all thought the same.   

If the NFL season happens, at least we could each have a chance to be proven correct.    My guess is we'll both just solidify our opinions.   I think Rivers will have a good season and the Colts win 10-12 games and win the division.  I think Cam will do fine with the Pats and they will win 10-12 games and win their much easier division.  

[crazycolt1]

51 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

What was my point again? If people want to use 2+ years ago as a measuring stick. What I stated isn't wrong. And if going by your measuring stick, outside of last year when Can was hurt, he's had more success while playing in the NFL the same time as Rivers 

 

I also mentioned Cams winning pedigree since college days. Another thing (National Champion) that Rivers or AL hasn't done. Why don't you deal with the facts that I mentioned. (Can winning in all levels of football)

 

Moreover, How many National Champ QBs end up in the Superbowl? 

 

Since we want to mention anyone who watches football. Let's see how well you know about your own former QB AL. WHAT WAS HIS LAST GAME IN COLLEGE, WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME?

 

Ill tell you. He played Oklahoma State cowboys against that old QB (I believe Weeden 24-27 yr old) with WR Justin Blackmon. Outcome Standford lost. The last past that AL threw in college was a pick INT.

 

sir, I watch alot of ball and don't rely on "experts" to tell me who is who, and how well they played, or how much they stink. I follow more than Colts in house players and will call out any one, team, or organization. You do want win more than a divisional title for the 40th time don't you?

 

Can is a winner. Made Kelvin Benjamin into a Pro Bowler, the funny part is the Colts went ahead a grabbed cams WR Funchess for a drive.

 

The way you see Cam "play the position" looks more like Mahomes, Jackson than Rivers. But go ahead.

 

You sure searched for a lot of straws to defend a QB that has no better record than Brissett over the last five years. 

This is  a league of what have you done for me lately, not five years ago.