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Baffling 3rd Round Pick


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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

To me, this bolsters my point about RBs being relatively unimportant in today's NFL.

 

I guess it's just in the eye of the beholder.  :dunno:

 

If you look at the measuring stick (Pats under Belichick), there is no important position/player in the (ultimate team) game of football.  No matter what position you think is important, BB has used different "journeymen" at that position for almost every one of his :lombardi::lombardi::lombardi::lombardi::lombardi::lombardi:...

 

Didn't BB just let the only on-field constant that contributed to his success walk on down to Tampa Bay?  If Tom Brady wasn't important enough to re-sign, then who is?  :thinking:

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Are you trying to play victim before the thread even gets started?     Baffling thread...     What?  Did you watch the SB?  Besides a few splash plays like that bomb from Mah

I just want to throw that out there.  I hope this a safe space to express non-conventional, against the grain opinions.   It seems with that and adding an RB that we are not all that serious

I actually think that going bpa with Taylor means we are as serious about this season as we can. Look at the AFC South, apart from Titans, Jags and Texans are shambles. Taylor behind our offensive lin

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19 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Another way to say it is that the 49ers ran for 220 yds with a 5 year journeyman running back that they have invested no capital in.  To me, this bolsters my point about RBs being relatively unimportant in today's NFL.  

 

Raheem Mostert=Interchangeable Part 

Nickster..……..Have we finally found out,  where "BOTT" has been hiding? I think "The Masked Poster is really "Bott"  

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19 minutes ago, horseshoecrabs said:

Nickster..……..Have we finally found out,  where "BOTT" has been hiding? I think "The Masked Poster is really "Bott"  

NO comprende man. 

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12 minutes ago, horseshoecrabs said:

I'l let the long time posters, bring you up to speed on our legionary fan forum Poster AKA... "BOTT" He hated running backs , even more that you.   

 

Dude I'm a child of the 70s and 80s. I love RBs.  Walter Payton's number and other stuff is my password key.  

It's just that right now RBs are not very important in the NFL.  This ain't my preference.  It's just a fact.

 

Again, I want to repeat that its not he RUNNING GAME I think is unimportant, but individual RUNNING BACKS.  I don't think the  we drafted will add much over what we would have had.  Looking forward to 2021, he will be the guy. 

 

I think this is a win later draft from the 2nd round on.  

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7 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Again, I want to repeat that its not he RUNNING GAME I think is unimportant, but individual RUNNING BACKS.

 

Isn't that going to be true of any aspect of a team?

 

Football is a game where the sum of the parts are greater than any one component.

 

A superstar has to be surrounded by complimentary talent/coaching.

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33 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Isn't that going to be true of any aspect of a team?

 

Football is a game where the sum of the parts are greater than any one component.

 

A superstar has to be surrounded by complimentary talent/coaching.

 

Well yeah man.  It's just in this particular case with the RB, I don't think this move will improve us as much as capital in another area if we are trying to win THIS season.

 

If we are really looking ahead 2021, then it makes more sense because we won't pay Mack.  Then if you add the Blackmon and Eason picks, it looks like a build for the near future try to win this season which may not even happen.

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9 minutes ago, Nickster said:

It's just in this particular case with the RB, I don't think this move will improve us as much as capital in another area if we are trying to win THIS season.

 

I disagree.  The learning curve isn't as steep for RBs as it is at almost any other position.  They have the best chance of all the positions to come in and contribute right away.

 

Just look at all the success of rookie RBs in recent years.  If there's one position that a rookie can come in and improve the Colts THIS season, it's RB.

 

What other position do you think a rookie could have come in and improved THIS season more than RB?

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Like I said earlier.

The best team in the AFC all season was the Ravens. 

They got beat because they couldn't contain Henry. He IS the reason the Titans won that game. 

  Yes it's true that most teams do use the RBBC but the reason is the teams want two different types of RBs and want to keep their RBs better rested during the game.

  RBBC also don't put the teams in jeopardy when ones goes out injured. Teams don't put all their stock in one RB anymore.

  The RBs are the ones who can control the game. They are the ones who tilt the clock in your teams favor.

  They are also the ones who seal the game if you have a lead late in the game if you have a lead. 

  The RB position has been devalued just because their shelf life is short. 

 

 

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I'd argue that outside of WR, the only position we were really lacking at is Edge rusher( we drafted Banogu and Turay to hopefully solve this), TE (Doyle is a homeless mans Witten) and depth at some other positions on defense. Ballard took WR first and then took BPA/ the guy they liked after months of scouting. If they don't workout, that sucks but it doesn't mean that Ballards thought process with this draft was wrong.

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1 hour ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I disagree.  The learning curve isn't as steep for RBs as it is at almost any other position.  They have the best chance of all the positions to come in and contribute right away.

 

Just look at all the success of rookie RBs in recent years.  If there's one position that a rookie can come in and improve the Colts THIS season, it's RB.

 

What other position do you think a rookie could have come in and improved THIS season more than RB?

 

I would agree with you if we had an incompetent backfield.  I don't think Mack plus the rookie is going to yield much greater production than Mack with the rest of the committe as it was for a 2020 season.  Mack will almost certainly be gone in 2021.

 

That was the point of my original post, that the draft seemed to set the team up for the future which Blackmon and Eason without a doubt are geared for rather than 2020.

 

I am not even saying that building for the future rather than for 2020 is the wrong thing to do either.

 

Henry is the outlier, but even then it took him a few seasons before he produced like that and probably is not going to be repeated by many teams.  Having a big bell cow back like Henry.

 

I think we could use talent more at Glowinski's position, TE, WR, DBs (ready to play in 2020), and always edge talent and Dline rotation of course.

 

SF had great DL rotation talent and throwaway journeymen back.  KCs back is just a guy.  Other contending teams are the same IMO.  Cook and Kamara were great before but not so much last season.  

 

Hey hope I'm wrong about the impact Taylor will have in 2020 over what we already have on the team.

 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I would agree with you if we had an incompetent backfield.  I don't think Mack plus the rookie is going to yield much greater production than Mack with the rest of the committe as it was for a 2020 season.  Mack will almost certainly be gone in 2021.

 

That was the point of my original post, that the draft seemed to set the team up for the future which Blackmon and Eason without a doubt are geared for rather than 2020.

 

I am not even saying that building for the future rather than for 2020 is the wrong thing to do either.

 

Henry is the outlier, but even then it took him a few seasons before he produced like that and probably is not going to be repeated by many teams.  Having a big bell cow back like Henry.

 

I think we could use talent more at Glowinski's position, TE, WR, DBs (ready to play in 2020), and always edge talent and Dline rotation of course.

 

SF had great DL rotation talent and throwaway journeymen back.  KCs back is just a guy.  Other contending teams are the same IMO.  Cook and Kamara were great before but not so much last season.  

 

Hey hope I'm wrong about the impact Taylor will have in 2020 over what we already have on the team.

 

 

 

 

 

Cook had 1135 yds and 13 tds last year behind an average at best oline in 14 games. Not too shabby.

Taylor was the best RB in college football last year and should be outstanding with our oline. Blackmon was a 2nd team All AmericanSS last year in his first year at SS. Don't understand your premise that we are not trying to win this year. If Mack were to go down this year we would be screwed. Not now for sure.

Eason was too good to pass up in the 4th round. Besides, with what we did in the off season besides WR we really had no real immediate weaknesses other than depth. Mack and Hooker both are up for contract at the end of the year and we needed insurance at both RB and SS in case they walked or want an a ridiculous contract. I think it was the right moves in all the cases although time will tell.

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7 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Cook had 1135 yds and 13 tds last year behind an average at best oline in 14 games. Not too shabby.

Taylor was the best RB in college football last year and should be outstanding with our oline. Blackmon was a 2nd team All AmericanSS last year in his first year at SS. Don't understand your premise that we are not trying to win this year. If Mack were to go down this year we would be screwed. Not now for sure.

Eason was too good to pass up in the 4th round. Besides, with what we did in the off season besides WR we really had no real immediate weaknesses other than depth. Mack and Hooker both are up for contract at the end of the year and we needed insurance at both RB and SS in case they walked or want an a ridiculous contract. I think it was the right moves in all the cases although time will tell.


Blackmon won’t play until at least October, and will probably won’t have a major role in 2020 man.  He’s recovering from ACL surgery.

 

How many touches do you think TAylor will get next year?  
 

eason won’t help the team for a while.

 

if Pittman produces big time it will be unusual for a rookie WR.

 

In 2021, these guys will be playing much larger roles.

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15 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Cook had 1135 yds and 13 tds last year behind an average at best oline in 14 games. Not too shabby.

Taylor was the best RB in college football last year and should be outstanding with our oline. Blackmon was a 2nd team All AmericanSS last year in his first year at SS. Don't understand your premise that we are not trying to win this year. If Mack were to go down this year we would be screwed. Not now for sure.

Eason was too good to pass up in the 4th round. Besides, with what we did in the off season besides WR we really had no real immediate weaknesses other than depth. Mack and Hooker both are up for contract at the end of the year and we needed insurance at both RB and SS in case they walked or want an a ridiculous contract. I think it was the right moves in all the cases although time will tell.

And BTW Cooks production was very poor the last 9 games.  Very bad ypc.  

 

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:


Blackmon won’t play until at least October, and will probably won’t have a major role in 2020 man.  He’s recovering from ACL surgery.

 

How many touches do you think TAylor will get next year?  
 

eason won’t help the team for a while.

 

if Pittman produces big time it will be unusual for a rookie WR.

 

In 2021, these guys will be playing much larger roles.

Agree with all you said here but if we didn't draft them in 2020 they would play any roll at all for us in 2021. I think Taylor will get a lot of touches this year. As for Pittman, We needed a receiver badly. Don't know if he will produce big time this year but needs to learn on the fly sometime. Agree that Blackmon may not see the field  till October but we drafted him in the 3rd and was project to go in the 2nd by most prognosticators.

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5 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

Another way to say it is that the 49ers ran for 220 yds with a 5 year journeyman running back that they have invested no capital in.  To me, this bolsters my point about RBs being relatively unimportant in today's NFL.  

 

Raheem Mostert=Interchangeable Part 

Bob Trumpy, a retired TE and Cris Collinsworth's protege remarkably called some NFL players interchangeable drill bits. It seemed like for a while the Denver Broncos could bring any RB in off the street and they would run for 1000+ yards.

 

I'm not saying I agree with Bob Trumpy in every case, but there are those players that you can plug and play.

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4 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Agree with all you said here but if we didn't draft them in 2020 they would play any roll at all for us in 2021. I think Taylor will get a lot of touches this year. As for Pittman, We needed a receiver badly. Don't know if he will produce big time this year but needs to learn on the fly sometime. Agree that Blackmon may not see the field  till October but we drafted him in the 3rd and was project to go in the 2nd by most prognosticators.


well that was the main point in my original post.  I don’t think we will get much help in 2020 from this draft.

 

And I am not saying any of the picks are bad necessarily.  We needed to draft a receiver.  No doubt.

 

the baffling part on the title kinda takes away from my real point in this thread that this draft doesn’t seem like a win now draft.

 

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Nickster said:


well that was the main point in my original post.  I don’t think we will get much help in 2020 from this draft.

 

And I am not saying any of the picks are bad necessarily.  We needed to draft a receiver.  No doubt.

 

the baffling part on the title kinda takes away from my real point in this thread that this draft doesn’t seem like a win now draft.

 

 

 

 

 

Who could we have drafted that you feel would have surely produced this year. they would all be rookies. There is no assurance that any will excel this year.

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11 hours ago, Nickster said:

I think we could use talent more at Glowinski's position, TE, WR, DBs (ready to play in 2020), and always edge talent and Dline rotation of course.

 

So what RG, TE, DB, or DL could we have drafted instead of Taylor that would have helped us win now in 2020 more than Taylor?

 

I don't think anybody drafted at those positions would come in and have more of an impact than Taylor will at RB this year.

 

10 hours ago, Nickster said:

if Pittman produces big time it will be unusual for a rookie WR.

 

Notice I didn't include WR in my question above because that was our first pick.  You say we need more talent at that position, yet you also seem to think no matter where they're drafted, they won't help us win right away.  :scratch:

 

10 hours ago, Nickster said:

well that was the main point in my original post.  I don’t think we will get much help in 2020 from this draft.

 

the baffling part on the title kinda takes away from my real point in this thread that this draft doesn’t seem like a win now draft.

 

Have you considered that this draft could be both a "win now" draft AND a draft looking forward to 2021 and beyond?  It's not an either/or situation, it can simultaneously be both.  :thmup:

 

Half our draftees (Blackmon, Eason, Pinter, Patmon) may never see the field this year, while the other half (Pittman, Taylor, Rodgers, Glasgow) should see significant snaps, especially with Rodgers and Glasgow on special teams.

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12 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

 

Have you considered that this draft could be both a "win now" draft AND a draft looking forward to 2021 and beyond?  It's not an either/or situation, it can simultaneously be both.  :thmup:

 

 

I think that is exactly what Ballard did with this draft.  Win now (Taylor, Buckner, Pittman) and be better in 2021.  

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

I think that is exactly what Ballard did with this draft.  Win now (Taylor, Buckner, Pittman) and be better in 2021.  

Agreed.  You can't overlook Buckner when evaluating this draft.  Ballard added an All-Pro, entering his prime, to address our biggest weakness.  

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18 minutes ago, Clem-Dog said:

Agreed.  You can't overlook Buckner when evaluating this draft.  Ballard added an All-Pro, entering his prime, to address our biggest weakness.  

Yep, and Taylor, who I think will make the team slightly better in 2020 will allow us allot of leverage negotiating with Mack.   I think Mack will sign elsewhere after this season.  

 

 

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17 hours ago, Nickster said:

Again, I want to repeat that its not he RUNNING GAME I think is unimportant, but individual RUNNING BACKS.

 

So, there's no need for talent at the RB position to have a successful RUNNING GAME?  I might still have a shot at the NFL after all.  Thank you for the inspiration!  

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On 4/25/2020 at 9:55 AM, Nickster said:

I just want to throw that out there.  I hope this a safe space to express non-conventional, against the grain opinions.

 

It seems with that and adding an RB that we are not all that serious about this season or are banking on it being cancelled.

 

 

If you keep making posts like this... I'd find another safe place.  Perhaps get a therapy dog as well.

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

Yep, and Taylor, who I think will make the team slightly better in 2020 will allow us allot of leverage negotiating with Mack.   I think Mack will sign elsewhere after this season.  

 

 

I think we see CBs plan for running back.  Draft a good one, let them run on the rookie contract, then replace with another rookie.  I would say Wilkins days in Indy are numbered.

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11 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I think we see CBs plan for running back.  Draft a good one, let them run on the rookie contract, then replace with another rookie.  I would say Wilkins days in Indy are numbered.

I agree.   I'm a little bummed about Wilkins.  I like the guy.   Big play potential.  5.8 yards per carry on 111 carries.   Has good hands too.  

 

image.png.52f343dc6e12987b398832322d802d26.png

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2 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree.   I'm a little bummed about Wilkins.  I like the guy.   Big play potential.  5.8 yards per carry on 111 carries.   Has good hands too.  

 

image.png.52f343dc6e12987b398832322d802d26.png

Wilkins is a dime a dozen type back, good burst, good speed but can only take what the line gives him, he would either go down on first contact or if he tried fighting for me yards he'd fumble.  I don't dislike Wilkins but he just another guy.

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1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Wilkins is a dime a dozen type back, good burst, good speed but can only take what the line gives him, he would either go down on first contact or if he tried fighting for me yards he'd fumble.  I don't dislike Wilkins but he just another guy.

2 fumbles in 111 carries is not too bad for a seldom used RB.  

I don't think he is so special that he cannot be done away with.  I just thought he was a likable guy who played with lots of energy which is what you want in a back up RB.  I hope the Colts find a way to keep him as the 4th RB.  

I disagree with the thought that he is "just another guy".   He's not unique, but he has value.  Not nearly as much with the addition of Taylor.  

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1 hour ago, ponyboy said:

 

So, there's no need for talent at the RB position to have a successful RUNNING GAME?  I might still have a shot at the NFL after all.  Thank you for the inspiration!  

Of the small pool of humans with the ability to be an NFL RB (I assume you are not in this pool then), I think the range talent within this elite pool is less important than almost any other position.  Makes comparatively less difference.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Wilkins is a dime a dozen type back, good burst, good speed but can only take what the line gives him, he would either go down on first contact or if he tried fighting for me yards he'd fumble.  I don't dislike Wilkins but he just another guy.


I agree...he's just a JAG. Given how his coaching staff uses him...why would I think any differently? 

 

Wilkins does have a real nice yards/carry...but a chunk of that has come in garbage time (like the CAR game last year). At this point...I am not sure why they would keep him over Williams...other than maybe Wilkins is a bit cheaper.

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21 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

Dude I'm a child of the 70s and 80s. I love RBs.  Walter Payton's number and other stuff is my password key.  

It's just that right now RBs are not very important in the NFL.  This ain't my preference.  It's just a fact.

 

Again, I want to repeat that its not he RUNNING GAME I think is unimportant, but individual RUNNING BACKS.  I don't think the  we drafted will add much over what we would have had.  Looking forward to 2021, he will be the guy. 

 

I think this is a win later draft from the 2nd round on.  

Rb is devalued in today's NFL.  Its how Indy just got possibly the top RB in the class in round two, rather than with a top 15 pick like a decade ago.  Nothing wrong with where they picked Taylor up.   If they picked the tenth RB in round two, that would be bad value..... 

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4 hours ago, Myles said:

2 fumbles in 111 carries is not too bad for a seldom used RB.  

I don't think he is so special that he cannot be done away with.  I just thought he was a likable guy who played with lots of energy which is what you want in a back up RB.  I hope the Colts find a way to keep him as the 4th RB.  

I disagree with the thought that he is "just another guy".   He's not unique, but he has value.  Not nearly as much with the addition of Taylor.  

 

The thing with Wilkins, IMO, is that when he was drafted I think the Colts expected to be able to coach a guy his size to be a bruiser, goal line/4th and 1 type back that could move the pile.  He has shown that can pick up yards in this league, but I would imagine the Colts' coaching staff was hoping he'd be a more 'power' back.  


In terms of fumbling, I agree 2 fumbles with the amount of touches he has had is not terrible.  However, the fumbles were both on receiving plays and they were due to poor form holding the ball -- and came at critical moments.  It obviously cost him playing time late in his rookie season.  It seems like he fixed his fumbling issue last year, though.

 

In terms of keeping 4 RBs, we have done it every year since 2017.  I don't see why we couldn't do it again (maybe with Eason we'll have to keep 3 QBs this year and cut someone at another position?).  Anyway, I view Hines as a key contributor to STs and as a receiving threat.  I would think there's a good shot to see Mack, Taylor, Wilkins and Hines all being kept around due to Hines' versatility.  Part of me thinks he should almost be more afraid of his job security than Wilkins, as it seems like I. Rodgers could supplant Hines as a return guy (if I had to bet on it, I think we'd keep Hines over Wilkins, but it'll be interesting).

 

1 hour ago, Shafty138 said:

Rb is devalued in today's NFL.  Its how Indy just got possibly the top RB in the class in round two, rather than with a top 15 pick like a decade ago.  Nothing wrong with where they picked Taylor up.   If they picked the tenth RB in round two, that would be bad value..... 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you on the overall assessment.  The NFL has become a much more passer friendly league (in part due to restrictions placed on DBs and in part due to WRs and QBs evolving).  That said... it's very obvious that Ballard and Reich both value the run game, they've said time and again that they want a top 5 rushing attack in the NFL.  IMO, having a stud RB is a critical piece to that puzzle.

 

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Blackmon was 2nd team All-Pac 12 as a CB both sophomore and junior years.  Senior year he was 2nd team AP All-American and first team All-Pac 12 as a safety.

 

Ballard likes versatile guys in the defensive backfield.  You saw it with Tell's pick last year.  To some extent, I think that's what he wanted from Quincy Wilson.  

 

Blackmon is a very solid player.  He has some ball-hawk to him.  

 

In many ways, his pick makes sense.  I think his major concern is injuries, but he should be a solid player in the NFL if he can remain healthy.

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13 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

The thing with Wilkins, IMO, is that when he was drafted I think the Colts expected to be able to coach a guy his size to be a bruiser, goal line/4th and 1 type back that could move the pile.  He has shown that can pick up yards in this league, but I would imagine the Colts' coaching staff was hoping he'd be a more 'power' back.  


In terms of fumbling, I agree 2 fumbles with the amount of touches he has had is not terrible.  However, the fumbles were both on receiving plays and they were due to poor form holding the ball -- and came at critical moments.  It obviously cost him playing time late in his rookie season.  It seems like he fixed his fumbling issue last year, though.

 

In terms of keeping 4 RBs, we have done it every year since 2017.  I don't see why we couldn't do it again (maybe with Eason we'll have to keep 3 QBs this year and cut someone at another position?).  Anyway, I view Hines as a key contributor to STs and as a receiving threat.  I would think there's a good shot to see Mack, Taylor, Wilkins and Hines all being kept around due to Hines' versatility.  Part of me thinks he should almost be more afraid of his job security than Wilkins, as it seems like I. Rodgers could supplant Hines as a return guy (if I had to bet on it, I think we'd keep Hines over Wilkins, but it'll be interesting).

 

 

 

 

I think Hines is safe.   His upside with Rivers is huge.  

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2 fumbles in 111 carries does not seem bad, but it's when those fumbles happened.  both times they happened as he was fighting for extra yards, which he doesn't do very often.  So he either goes down at first contact or he has a much higher risk of fumbling.

 

IMO, there was a reason that when Mack was injured they brought in Williams to start in his place and not Wilkins, it's because Wilkins is not good as the go to back, he is good at the fill in role with occasional carries.  Because he has good speed, excellent acceleration and he can hit the hole quickly and get to the 2nd level when teams are not expecting it, which is why I think he's a dime a dozen back.

 

Last year when Mack was not in the line up, defenses played the pass more, what Taylor brings to the Colts offense this year is that teams will no longer be able to do that.  So, it will allow the Colts to disguise their intentions more.  

 

I'm a pretty big Mack fan, it seems like his hips have ball bearings rather than joints and the way he can move his legs around while keeping his shoulders square to the endzone is one of the things that make him a very good RB.  But JT is going to add a level power and explosiveness to the running game that the Colts don't currently have.  Not only can he run over a LB or DB but he is also a threat to take it to the house if he gets into the open field.

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On 4/26/2020 at 11:17 PM, Nickster said:

And BTW Cooks production was very poor the last 9 games.  Very bad ypc.  

 

 

He didn't have the O-line to open the running lanes for him. 

Did you even watch a Viking game at all last season? 

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On 4/25/2020 at 10:19 AM, NannyMcafee said:

 

 

 

In regards to the seasons cancelation I see them playing without a crowd before canceling. 

I think thats what the owners are saying......

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22 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think thats what the owners are saying......

Agreed. I read somewhere, I’ll have to find the article, that all teams might play in the same area and be quarantined from everyone else for the season. How that would be enforced, I have no idea...

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