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Colts take Jonathan Taylor RB


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2 hours ago, BrickHead said:

I feel confident the reasons why Ballard moved up to 41 from 44 was not only because he wanted Taylor, but he also wanted to keep the Jacksonville Jaguars from drafting him at 42.  The Jags are not happy with Leonard Fournette, and looking to trade him. He hasn't lived up to his draft position as the 4th overall pick in the 2017 draft, and is a bit of a distraction at times.

 

I think Ballard new exactly what he was doing. Wanted Taylor, and didn't want to face him two times a year in the division.

Of course he felt there was a good chance he might come off the board. Why else trade. Both Jacksonville and Chicago have running back needs...so if that was his target go get him. You see how easy it was for him to get the pick back. I love how Ballard moves around the draft board like a chess board. Too many only look to move up but Ballard like Belichick really utilize every aspect of the draft.

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Chris Simms (@CSimmsQB) Tweeted: Chris Ballard got two first rounders in the 2nd Round. Ballard is as good as it gets. https://twitter.com/CSimmsQB/status/1253834232184614912?s=20

CFB - Most Rushing Attempts (Career)   Notable names to have successful NFL careers w more carries than Jonathan Taylor (926)   1. Tony Dorsett (1163) 2. Hershel Walker (994)

I don't think this has anything to do about Mack. I think it effects Wilkins more imo. Mack and Taylor are gonna be an awesome tandam

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12 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

For those complaining about losing a 5th rounder, we just picked up an  extra 4th and a 5th. Does this make the Taylor choice more appealing?

The Taylor choice was a good one. I may have preferred OL here but if CB thinks the kid is elite you have to pull the trigger on it. I don’t get all the tripping on trading a 5th... with the talent level rising so steadily the last few years it’s going to be hard for a lot of the lower round picks to make this team anyway.

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15 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Please it's a 5th rd pick. 

 

Me too.  I thought Dodds was talking about a RB.  

You deserve credit. You’ve been saying for weeks we might get a RB and most of us didn’t believe it. Congrats.

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1 hour ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Double-check your numbers before posting.

 

Mack averages 13 games/season, not "at least 15".

Rivers threw 20 picks last year, not 22.

"Struggled to make the playoffs his whole career" ?!? Where were you from 2006-2009???  :funny:

wow off by two hahaha so funny.   being concerned over having a 39 year old QB who threw 20 picks last year and went 5-11 with a ton of weapons is funny?     how many running backs play 16 full games?  it is a devalued position for a reason when teams like the 49ers can get a guy who was cut multiple times to be a stud .     during 2006- 2009 rivers had a good defense weapons and running game and still 0 rings .  rivers is the most overrated QB of all time .

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2 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

wow off by two hahaha so funny.   being concerned over having a 39 year old QB who threw 20 picks last year and went 5-11 with a ton of weapons is funny?     how many running backs play 16 full games?  it is a devalued position for a reason when teams like the 49ers can get a guy who was cut multiple times to be a stud .     during 2006- 2009 rivers had a good defense weapons and running game and still 0 rings .  rivers is the most overrated QB of all time .

He's 38 not 39, sorry I had to do it :funny:

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Sorry if it’s already been said within this thread.

 

Irsay gave an interview and spoke about Pittman and Taylor. He said the Colts had really good intel that a team “Colts fans know well” were going to take Taylor if the Colts stayed put. Hence why they traded up and took him a few spots before.

 

 

here is the link for the entire interview. https://www.colts.com/news/michael-pittman-jr-jonathan-taylor-jim-irsay-reggie-wayne-nfl-draft-2020

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17 hours ago, J@son said:

I thought this was a very good point and is probably what Ballard was thinking

 

 

They may still pay Mack. We don't  know

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On 4/25/2020 at 7:35 AM, AustexColt said:

If you believe that Tom Rathman will fix the fumbling issue. You basically got a Zeke in the 2nd Round with Marlin Mack splitting time.  Throughout Reich's time he needed to have a running game that he can count on game in and game out. Without having the RB depth that is very difficult, esp with a 17 games schedule. I am very very confident that Marlin will get his money. 

 

You cannot win championships without a solid, dependable running game. With an average QB like Tannehill, the Titans beat the Patriots.  Taylor and Mack is a tandem that puts the entire NFL on notice. 

 

If you look around the league, tandem starting running backs are a thing and the only real way to have a successful running game every week throughout the season.   Also while Mack has been carrying the workload, it's also taken a toll on his body.  This could help keep him healthy while also being insurance for when he does get injured. 

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On 4/25/2020 at 9:16 AM, aaron11 said:

thats only something that fans say, real teams do not go by that philosophy

 

4 other teams took backs in the second.  they still go in the first and second pretty much every year

Fans haven’t caused the obvious devaluation of running backs over the last couple decades. 

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9 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Fans haven’t caused the obvious devaluation of running backs over the last couple decades. 

tell that to the gms that still draft them high.  lots of teams have taken them in the first two rounds lately

 

they must still think they are pretty important, even if fans like you dont 

 

 

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2 hours ago, aaron11 said:
2 hours ago, BOTT said:

Fans haven’t caused the obvious devaluation of running backs over the last couple decades. 

tell that to the gms that still draft them high.  lots of teams have taken them in the first two rounds lately

 

they must still think they are pretty important, even if fans like you dont 

FWIW, here are some numbers, for comparison, to see what the true picture is. I compiled numbers of RB picks in rounds 1 and 2 for the past 20 drafts. The numbers appear to show a measurable devaluation of the RB position from last decade to this decade.

 

Link to view entire table

 

Results:

2011-2020 Total

14 1st rounders, 5.9% of all RBs drafted

29 2nd rounders, 12.2% of all RBs drafted

237 total RBs drafted

Summary - 18.1% of RBs were drafted in 1st and 2nd rounds from 2011-2020.

 

2001-2010 Total

30 1st rounders, 13.8% of all RBs drafted

24 2nd rounders, 11% of all RBs drafted

218 total RBs drafted

Summary - 24.8% of RBs were drafted in 1st and 2nd rounds from 2001-2010.

 

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21 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

The numbers appear to show a measurable devaluation of the RB position from last decade to this decade.

 

they have been devalued over the last 20 years im not arguing that part of it

 

even with the devaluation teams still take them in the first two rounds.  a lot of fans out there think you should never draft one high and real teams dont go by that logic.  there were i think 6 in the first two rounds this year alone 

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There was a post by someone on another site that showed RB carries in college had no effect on them in the NFL. In fact, it correlated well with career longevity because of their durability. I have to dig it up

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2 hours ago, BOTT said:

Fans haven’t caused the obvious devaluation of running backs over the last couple decades. 

Last couple of decades.  That's 20 years.  A lot of GM's have come and gone in 20 years.  Even the last 10 years there has been a lot of turnover.  I don't think 20 years is a good sample size.  I would be interested in seeing the last five years and see what the current thinking is.  Maybe you get the same result who knows.  That said if it turns out to be 15-20% that is still an indication that the position is considered very important when you consider there are 22 positions to fill out.  JMO.

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On 4/25/2020 at 12:22 PM, coming on strong said:

wow off by two hahaha so funny.   being concerned over having a 39 year old QB who threw 20 picks last year and went 5-11 with a ton of weapons is funny?     how many running backs play 16 full games?  it is a devalued position for a reason when teams like the 49ers can get a guy who was cut multiple times to be a stud .     during 2006- 2009 rivers had a good defense weapons and running game and still 0 rings .  rivers is the most overrated QB of all time .

Lol sorry it doesn't  work that way. While rivers has zero rings  it isn't  all his  fault. It takes a team effort  to win it all. Just ask dan Marino.  Tom brady and big ben have stopped  many people  from getting  rings. Not to mention  his kicker or offensive  weapons  would disappear  in playoff  games except  when they upset our colts teams.

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8 hours ago, MFT5 said:

CFB - Most Rushing Attempts (Career)

 

Notable names to have successful NFL careers w more carries than Jonathan Taylor (926)

 

1. Tony Dorsett (1163)

2. Hershel Walker (994)

3. Deangelo Willams (969)

4. Thurman Thomas (956)

5. Ladainian Tomlinson (943)

6. Michael Turner (940)

7. Marcus Allen (932)

 

* This isn't declaring Taylor will reach the level of success any of these RBs achieved, only meant to highlight that wear & tear is to be viewed on a case by case basis.

 

To simply have cast off Taylor as a broken commodity is a lazy & short sided perspective.

Exactly  college carries  has nothing to due with how good a rb turns out. How well they take care if their bodies, if they have vision, patience and talent.

Alot of the running  hacks that were busts like Trent Richardson  had no vision or didn't  take care if their body. At the college  level  if you have speed and a good oline you can get away with things you can't  at the pro level.

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I was asked about fumble numbers in another one of the Taylor threads, so figured I'd drop this here too.

Quote

 

In his 41 career games, Taylor has fumbled a total of 18 times, with 15 of those recovered by the opposing team.

 

2017-8

2018-4

2019-6

 

 

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14 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I was asked about fumble numbers in another one of the Taylor threads, so figured I'd drop this here too.

 

So with the amount of carries he had are those numbers really that bad? I know he did have a lot of carries. That has been a point made by many. 

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So with the amount of carries he had are those numbers really that bad? I know he did have a lot of carries. That has been a point made by many. 

Dobbins had similar carries this year to Taylor and had half the fumbles (3). Hubbard, who had more carries than Taylor, only had 4. 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Dobbins had similar carries this year to Taylor and had half the fumbles (3). Hubbard, who had more carries than Taylor, only had 4. 

I understand that but with 926 carries with the way he ran, 18 fumbles is really not that bad. I am pretty confident he will improve with pro coaching and teaching. 

Notice I said with the way he ran. He was uninhibited in the way he ran.

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19 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Taylor had 299 carries in 2017, 307 in 2018 and 320 in 2019. 

So is 18 fumbles out of 926 carries really that bad? 

comes out to 1 fumble per 51 carries, or about a fumble every 3 games.

 

So with an average top 10 load (275ish carries a year), you'd be looking at 5.5ish fumbles in a year. The top 10 NFL backs in carries had a total of 13 fumbles, or 1.3 fumbles per RB.... 

 

5 vs 1.3......

 

Henry did have 5 of the 13 fumbles out of the top 10 lol....

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand that but with 926 carries with the way he ran, 18 fumbles is really not that bad. I am pretty confident he will improve with pro coaching and teaching. 

Notice I said with the way he ran. He was uninhibited in the way he ran.

dude, yes it is..... there's no way to spin 18 or 6 a year... dobbins runs similar and had half the fumbles. it's a concern. not saying he can't improve, but it is a legit concern.

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I loved the pick because Jt has elite talent and I believe that our staff can fix his fumbling issues. Tiki Barber fumbled a lot at the beginning of his career but he fixed it so I have faith Jt will get it corrected.

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On 4/24/2020 at 5:51 PM, CR91 said:

I don't think this has anything to do about Mack. I think it effects Wilkins more imo. Mack and Taylor are gonna be an awesome tandam

 

This year, I think you're 100% right it is more impactful to Wilkins than Mack.  If we decide to keep 4 RBs, I think Wilkins will be fine, but if we go w/ 3, I'd say he or Hines is gone (IMO, more likely to keep Hines than Wilkins).... however, Mack's rookie contract is coming up soon, for the long-term it may mean more to Mack than Wilkins who we could keep around for a lot cheaper.

 

On 4/24/2020 at 5:52 PM, jvan1973 said:

Impossible to know

 

Taylor is faster, stronger, thicker, as quick or quicker, has more ability to follow blocks, and had much higher production than Mack did coming out of college.  He's hands down a better prospect at this stage.  Will he stay healthy and out produce Mack in the NFL, that's hard to know.. but it's very easy to say Taylor is better than Mack coming out of college.

 

On 4/24/2020 at 5:54 PM, jtrester said:

Hopefully this means we are moving Hines to the slot

 

I imagine we'll see Hines be used in a lot of ways with this offense and hopefully improved QB play.  The slot being one of them... but also in 2 back sets, single back formations, etc.  His production was down last year (as a rookie he had 314 rush yards on 85 attempts to go with 63 receptions on 81 targets for 425 passing yards... last year he had 52 rush attempts for 199 yards, and 58 receiving targets for 44 catches and 320 yards).  I don't think his play declined, though (his yards per carry and yards per reception were both up).  I think the play of Brissett and our offense as a whole led to the decline in attempts for Hines.

 

Where Hines really seemed to do well (late in season) was as a returner.  I'm not sure if the drafting of Isaiah Rodgers will impact that at all, as Rodgers was pretty impressive in college as a return guy and has a lot of speed.    My guess would be Rodgers may be used more on kickoffs with Hines on punts.. but who knows at this point.

 

On 4/24/2020 at 5:54 PM, esmort said:

Better players at better positions were there ..smh

 

Jonathan Taylor is one of the most productive RBs in NCAA history.  He is 6th all time in rushing yards in the NCAA history (behind Ron Dayne, Tony Dorsett, Donnel Pumphrey, Ricky Williams and Charles White).  The only RB in NCAA history to rush for >6,000 yards in any 3 year span.  He was top 10 in Heisman voting 3 times.  Received the Doak Walker Award as college football's best back 2x (Ricky Williams and Darren McFadden the only other two to accomplish that) and was unanimous first-team All-American twice and 3x All-Big Ten.  He has the NCAA Division 1 FBS record for most 200 yard games in a career (12).  He runs a 4.39 at 225+ lbs. 

 

I have a hard time believing that there were many better players than him on the board in the second round.  

 

On 4/24/2020 at 5:54 PM, BProland85 said:

Wow really good pick actually even though I don't like going RB early. He is arguable the top RB in this draft, and could be the next elite RB in the NFL, especially behind this OL.

 

Wonder when Ballard and the coaching staff soured on Marlon Mack. Possibly could be because of his numerous injuries. RB room will be super deep and talented this year for sure!

 

I don't know that they have 'soured' on Mack.  Ballard said in an interview after the pick that this pick makes our team better, and it will make Marlon better.  Irsay also said they had intel that another team (likely Jax) was going to take JT if they didn't move up.  

 

Could be, like many other teams, that Ballard wants to split carries.  The fact that Mack has never played more than 14 games in a single season is also concerning.  Additionally, it appears as though JT is a better receiving back (he had 26 catches w/ 5 TDs last year in college -- whereas Mack had 14 receptions with 0 TDs in Indy).  Could also be a longer term move, with Mack's rookie contract coming up in a couple years.

 

On 4/24/2020 at 6:08 PM, Orioles22 said:

I don't think we need them both - Wllkins and Hines are plenty good enough to fill the backup role.

 

 

Wilkins has a good YPC but he's had a relatively small sample size (just 51 carries last year and only 7 receptions).  I think when Wilkins was drafted, they were hoping he could use his 6'1" 216 lbs frame to become a power back.  While he has had good YPC, he doesn't seem to have developed into the guy that can push a pile and for his size, it seems like he still runs relatively soft.  

 

On 4/24/2020 at 6:15 PM, Thunderbolt said:

This means they'll cut either Wilkins or Hines. Great pick up though in Taylor.

 

Not necessarily.  Hines can be used in many ways aside from RB.  Also, we carried 4 RBs last year (Mack, Hines, Wilkins, J. Williams).  The same 4 were on our final roster in 2018.  We had 4 on 2017's roster (Gore, Ferguson, Matt Jones, Mack).  We also had 4 in 2016.... long story short, it's not uncommon at all for teams to keep 4 RBs (especially in our case when Mack has yet to play more than 14 games in a single season due to injury).  

 

Additionally, Hines has value as a returner, a slot WR, etc... I'd be more surprised if we kept 3 RBs than if we kept 4 in the 2020 season. 

 

On 4/24/2020 at 6:16 PM, coltsfanatic24 said:

Mack has an incredible work ethic. Think he has a lot of elite years left in him. Great vision and speed behind an elite offensive line. The best RB we’ve had since Edge. Taylor was good value in the 2nd for another team, but not for us with other blue chip talent on the board. 

 

I'm not totally sure here.  Mack has 'a lot of elite years left in him' -- I don't think we've seen Mack have a single elite year to date.  He's never played more than 14 games in a season.  He was 11th in the league in rushing last year (with a lower YPC than all but 2 guys ahead of him).  The first 5 RBs behind him (every RB who rushed for over 1,000 yards last season) all have equal or better YPC.  That's better than middle of the pack, but by no means 'elite'.  Granted our O was pretty one-dimensional last year, and I'm sure if he played 16 games and had some sort of passing game to alleviate him, he may be more productive... just have a hard time envisioning him having a lot of elite years left in him when I have yet to seen one elite year from him.

 

On 4/26/2020 at 8:48 AM, MFT5 said:

CFB - Most Rushing Attempts (Career)

 

Notable names to have successful NFL careers w more carries than Jonathan Taylor (926)

 

1. Tony Dorsett (1163)

2. Hershel Walker (994)

3. Deangelo Willams (969)

4. Thurman Thomas (956)

5. Ladainian Tomlinson (943)

6. Michael Turner (940)

7. Marcus Allen (932)

 

* This isn't declaring Taylor will reach the level of success any of these RBs achieved, only meant to highlight that wear & tear is to be viewed on a case by case basis.

 

To simply have cast off Taylor as a broken commodity is a lazy & short sided perspective.

 

Taylor's also only 21 years old.  He played 3 seasons in college.  He didn't miss a single game due to injury.  He's very thick and strong (I'd be more worried if a guy built like Warrick Dunn had as many carries/times being tackled coming out of college than a guy who's almost 230 pounds).

 

14 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Taylor had 299 carries in 2017, 307 in 2018 and 320 in 2019. 

So is 18 fumbles out of 926 carries really that bad? 

 

Yes, 18 fumbles (or 6 fumbles a season) is unacceptable, regardless of how many carries are had.  6 fumbles in 14 games (college season) is 0.43 fumbles/game, so if he kept that up, that'd be more like 7 fumbles in a 16 game NFL season.  

 

Granted he likely won't get as many touches per game in the NFL... 18/926 = 1.9% of carries.  The average (in 2007 anyway) per 100 touches by a RB in the NFL was about 1% of carries (I imagine it has decreased more since then), so he's still coughing it up almost double the average rate per 100 carries.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumble#/media/File:Fumbles.png

 

I haven't watched all his fumbles in college, but imagine Reich, Rathman, Sirianni, Ballard and scouts have all taken a look at it and imagine it's something they think they can fix.

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On 4/25/2020 at 11:07 AM, LockeDown said:

He has Arian Fosters personality for those that remember him. Even looks like him a bit I think.

He wears the 23 because he was a huge fan of Arian Foster. If he reminds me a lot of him in his run style. But doesn't look anything like him.

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13 minutes ago, waka waka said:

He wears the 23 because he was a huge fan of Arian Foster. If he reminds me a lot of him in his run style. But doesn't look anything like him.

I didn’t know he was a fan. Yeah, but have you heard Foster talk?  They both Sound like metaphysical philosopher types. Kind of unusual in the NFL is the only reason I mentioned it.

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Did I read his combine stats correctly, 5' 10" 226lbs and ran a 4.39 which was the fastest among rb's?  4.39 forty yd dash is for the smaller, quicker gadget type athletes, not for a 226 lb punishing machine!  More importantly, did I read his college stats correctly, 926 attempts, 6174 yds, 6.7 ypa & 50 tds in just 3 yrs?  SAY WHAT???  If Taylor fell to the second rd due to his fumbling issues and they disregarded his 226 lbs, 4.39 speed and a HOF college resume, they failed to make the connection Mr. Obvious.  Steal of the draft easily.

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