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Deforest Buckner or Javon Kinlaw at 13th pick


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When the 13th pick was on the clock (Colts original pick) Javon Kinlaw was on the board. SF trades the 13th pick to TB.

 

So it goes to ask did CB make the right decision trading the 13th pick for Deforest Buckner (26 y.o) or stay put and draft DT Javon Kinlaw (injury concern)?

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21 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

When the 13th pick was on the clock (Colts original pick) Javon Kinlaw was on the board. SF trades the 13th pick to TB.

 

So it goes to ask did CB make the right decision trading the 13th pick for Deforest Buckner (26 y.o) or stay put and draft DT Javon Kinlaw (injury concern)?

Like I said when we made the trade if Kinlaw or Jeudy turn into all pros it was a bad trade because you had these guys for an extra 5 years at rookie money. But that is a big if. Ballard went for the sure thing in Buckner

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27 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Do people really sit around and think about this stuff? You don’t even know that’s who he would have selected. 

Not to mention Buckner is already proven id go Buckner all day long.

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I don't think you'll find many that aren't cool with the move. I just hope Buckner can produce at a similar level as he did in SF, without other top tier D lineman helping take up blockers here. That's kind of my question aside from the fact that Ballard likes picks and he gave up a high pick to grab a big contract. That honestly doesn't really strike me as consistent, but whatever, it's a need and the cash is there. I think it'll work out fine ultimately. 

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I'm happy with Buckner, but there's no doubt that the 49ers ended up getting tremendous value out of that trade. 

 

That being said, time will still tell who the ultimate winner was. 

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Let's say this.  If Kinlaw plays next year and is close to being defensive rookie of the year, then I think it is fair to question Ballard's judgement. I will leave it at that. I do think that Kinlaw fell because of medical concerns. His knees

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1 hour ago, PrideOfAthens17 said:

Ballard was asked his plans for round 1 of the draft. He said he's putting on tape of Buckner and enjoying it.

 

I like that answer.

That's  what he did.  Made for a boring  night for the fanbase

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6 hours ago, BigO said:

Like I said when we made the trade if Kinlaw or Jeudy turn into all pros it was a bad trade because you had these guys for an extra 5 years at rookie money. But that is a big if. Ballard went for the sure thing in Buckner

That wouldnt make it a bad move, imo.  The only thing that would qualify as bad for me is if Buckner doesnt impress.

  Buckner is pretty darn good.  Either Brown or Kinlaw may or may not meet or exceed that level.  The odds probably say they both fall short of Buckner.

  So i look at it as we paid more for what probably is a better risk.  And the way Ballard seems to value the position, i see it as a smart move.  Kinlaw went right at our pick too, which was risky in itself as Brown was gone.  The Rhodes and Burton additions may also prove to be really smart when the draft is all said and done:  I like where the roster sits now, compared to 3 months ago, heading into the 2nd round.

  I’d say, we had a good first round if Buckner adds what Ballard expects.

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11 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

When the 13th pick was on the clock (Colts original pick) Javon Kinlaw was on the board. SF trades the 13th pick to TB.

 

So it goes to ask did CB make the right decision trading the 13th pick for Deforest Buckner (26 y.o) or stay put and draft DT Javon Kinlaw (injury concern)?

 

 Hindsight says you take Kinlaw and spend the $16M or so difference much more wisely than they did with JB.
 With the JB$$$ $28M and the $16M that is a lot of missed talent down the drain. Oh well. 

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22 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Hindsight says you take Kinlaw and spend the $16M or so difference much more wisely than they did with JB.
 With the JB$$$ $28M and the $16M that is a lot of missed talent down the drain. Oh well. 

But if you factor in the unknowns, the trade was a very good one for the Colts.

Unkowns:

Will Kinlaw be good?

Will Kinlaw be there at 13?

 

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2 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

Niners got Kinlaw with our pick, plus an extra 4th rounder by trading down one spot. Buckner better fix the Dline problem. 

It is certain that the D-line will be improved with Buckner.  

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The true question is - do you want to wait for Kinlaw to become All-Pro in 3 years while still searching for that elite DT in the middle keeping our D from reaching its peak effectiveness or use the cap space to get a known commodity now? The move they made for Philip Rivers suggests they were not going to kid around and are going all in on 2020 and the near future. 

 

People have to understand that DTs do not easily become All-Pro against strong interior NFL OL guys in a couple of years. It takes time to get seasoned, took Buckner time as well. Plus, 49ers have Armstead that can demand a double team or Bosa that can demand a double team. Name one guy on our DL that will demand a double team consistently. It took Buckner a few years to get to his All Pro level. After Donald and Cox, Buckner is 3rd best DT in the league. No rookie selected at No.13 on the DL is going to approach that NOW.

 

It is easier for DEs to contribute as a rookie as the year goes on since they see more 1-on-1s. Even Montez Sweat came along fine as the year went on. Our own Freeney came along as the year went on. Same with Bosas, both of them. But once the double teams come, your quality depth shines.

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How is this even a debate?

 

An All-Pro/Pro Bowl player just turned 26 years old vs an unproven 23 year old when the season starts rookie.

 

Please. 

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1 minute ago, James said:

How is this even a debate?

 

An All-Pro/Pro Bowl player just turned 26 years old vs an unproven 23 year old when the season starts rookie.

 

Please. 

 

Yeah, agree!!! 

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Buckner is a 6'7".... long armed, D line nightmare for QB's to deal with. He is the type of defender that defenses thrive around because of how much me he affects all those around him. 

 

Restrospect will likely show us that a small handfull at best out of the entire top 1/2 of the first round will command that kind of affect on the sport....regardless of position. 

 

If Kinlaw becomes that in his rookie season (by the end mind you), it will be extremely rare...and if he does, so be it. 

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Buckner's tape coming out was dramatically better than Kinlaw's, IMO. And Buckner has realized his potential as a proven NFL player. With a bunch of cap space, it was a good swing for the Colts.

 

The Niners got good value out of the trade, but any assumption that Kinlaw will be an adequate replacement for Buckner is dangerous, at best. Not to mention the fact that Kinlaw is a medical red flag. It's possible he wouldn't even have been on the Colts board. The Niners have a strong, deep DL, and can better afford the risk.

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13 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

Do people really sit around and think about this stuff? You don’t even know that’s who he would have selected. 

Would it have been better stated as, Did CB make the right decision to trade for Buckerner or sit tight at 13 with opportunity to grab Kinlaw? Just a light question on decision making. No need to take it personal. Have you ever questioned anything the Colts do?

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

Buckner's tape coming out was dramatically better than Kinlaw's, IMO. And Buckner has realized his potential as a proven NFL player. With a bunch of cap space, it was a good swing for the Colts.

 

The Niners got good value out of the trade, but any assumption that Kinlaw will be an adequate replacement for Buckner is dangerous, at best. 

Exactly. It is like we got Buckner with the 13th pick is how I look at it. He is only 26, an all-pro beast. I could make a strong debate that even at 26 he would've went in the top 5 in this years draft. We have had a great draft already by trading for him. He easily has 5 great years left assuming he doesn't get seriously injured.

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20 minutes ago, Superman said:

Buckner's tape coming out was dramatically better than Kinlaw's, IMO. And Buckner has realized his potential as a proven NFL player. With a bunch of cap space, it was a good swing for the Colts.

 

The Niners got good value out of the trade, but any assumption that Kinlaw will be an adequate replacement for Buckner is dangerous, at best. Not to mention the fact that Kinlaw is a medical red flag. It's possible he wouldn't even have been on the Colts board. The Niners have a strong, deep DL, and can better afford the risk.

What I'm worried about is that right now we have the capspace but very soon this won't be the case. We will be needing to pay Leonard, Nelson, Smith, Mack, Kelly... Etc. We are already close to the cap limit... And while Buckner is likely the better player Kinlaw is still high upside player and if he pans out he will be much better value because he's paid pennies.

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

What I'm worried about is that right now we have the capspace but very soon this won't be the case. We will be needing to pay Leonard, Nelson, Smith, Mack, Kelly... Etc. We are already close to the cap limit...

 

I am sure we will replenish through the draft constantly this draft or later, IMO, to stay ahead. I am actually certain we will. Jay Tufele of USC that might a prospect in the 20s for next year, maybe we get him??? This draft is not yet over yet. 

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

What I'm worried about is that right now we have the capspace but very soon this won't be the case. We will be needing to pay Leonard, Nelson, Smith, Mack, Kelly... Etc. We are already close to the cap limit... And while Buckner is likely the better player Kinlae is still high upside player and if he pans out he will be much better value because he's paid pennies.

 

I think cap space won't be an issue. There will be a big jump in the cap at some point over the next two years (maybe 2021, but the pandemic might have a drastic effect on revenue). Assume they get Leonard and Nelson done after 2020, which will allow them to spread out some bonuses and cap hits. I think it's less than 50/50 that they re-sign Mack. Not sure about Kelly (mostly because of his injuries), too early to talk about Smith, and it looks like there's a chance they'll decide not to pay Hooker.

 

I'm also still wondering whether they move Brissett, which will add a few million to the rollover. We'll see how 2020 goes, but the cap hit for the QB room should be going way down. Cap space should be fine. I think we have room for two more $15-20m/year guys, to be honest.

 

I wasn't as high on Kinlaw as everyone else. Then the injury situation became more of a concern. In Buckner, you have a proven difference maker at a position that we've never been able to really lock down, and that's worthy of being treated like a core piece.

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4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think cap space won't be an issue. There will be a big jump in the cap at some point over the next two years (maybe 2021, but the pandemic might have a drastic effect on revenue). Assume they get Leonard and Nelson done after 2020, which will allow them to spread out some bonuses and cap hits. I think it's less than 50/50 that they re-sign Mack. Not sure about Kelly (mostly because of his injuries), too early to talk about Smith, and it looks like there's a chance they'll decide not to pay Hooker.

 

I'm also still wondering whether they move Brissett, which will add a few million to the rollover. We'll see how 2020 goes, but the cap hit for the QB room should be going way down. Cap space should be fine. I think we have room for two more $15-20m/year guys, to be honest.

 

I wasn't as high on Kinlaw as everyone else. Then the injury situation became more of a concern. In Buckner, you have a proven difference maker at a position that we've never been able to really lock down, and that's worthy of being treated like a core piece.

The QB paycheck is insane, indeed. Right now we are paying:

 

Rivers 25M

Brissett 21.3M

Luck 6.4M

Hoyer 4M

-------------------

56.7M

 

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6 minutes ago, stitches said:

The QB paycheck is insane, indeed. Right now we are paying:

 

Rivers 25M

Brissett 21.3M

Luck 6.4M

Hoyer 4M

-------------------

56.7M

 

 

All go off the books at the end of the season, correct? Jacoby is glad to count his money this year because he'd be lucky to get half of that next year.

 

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28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think cap space won't be an issue. There will be a big jump in the cap at some point over the next two years (maybe 2021, but the pandemic might have a drastic effect on revenue). Assume they get Leonard and Nelson done after 2020, which will allow them to spread out some bonuses and cap hits. I think it's less than 50/50 that they re-sign Mack. Not sure about Kelly (mostly because of his injuries), too early to talk about Smith, and it looks like there's a chance they'll decide not to pay Hooker.

 

I'm also still wondering whether they move Brissett, which will add a few million to the rollover. We'll see how 2020 goes, but the cap hit for the QB room should be going way down. Cap space should be fine. I think we have room for two more $15-20m/year guys, to be honest.

 

I wasn't as high on Kinlaw as everyone else. Then the injury situation became more of a concern. In Buckner, you have a proven difference maker at a position that we've never been able to really lock down, and that's worthy of being treated like a core piece.

I really like Kinlaw's game but yes when he left the senior bowl because of his knees and then didn't participate at the combine because of his knees that kind of took him off my radar.  I look at it like pursuing a job, the game film is the resume but the combine and all star games, pro days, etc are like the interview.  And IMO, Kinlaw failed the interview... obviously SF feels differently than I do.  

1 minute ago, boo2202 said:

Or Ballard needs to hire you in an executive position because yall probably have same talent evaluation 

Now that would be big mistake.  But really, what will do if Buckner doesn't fix the dline problem?

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