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Was just going throw tape breakdowns of last season. I was surprised of the Banogu pick so early in the 2nd round at first and was willing to give him a chance. But man, I just don't see anything in his tape. He doesn't have great bend, no real go to rush move, not great agility, motor isn't all that hot either. I love Turays tape and its a shame his season ended how it did, but I'm just not seeing it with Banogu.

 

It almost seems like they drafted him high because they thought he would be that Jamie Collins type, where he could play SAM, then move to DE during passing downs, which made him valuable. But once they axed that idea in training camp, half his value goes out the window.

 

Am I missing something?

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Ok, this I have to disagree with a lot.   Many on this forum did not believe that the WR position was in good shape.  Funchess on a one year, Inman gone, Cain coming off a knee, Fountain not

Banogu is a player that was drafted for his body type and potential. Many NFL players do not reach their true potential, (Q. Wilson for example).   Just two picks later, the Titans selected

Agree,  A.J. Brown was a big miss by Ballard, unless Banogu makes a big 2nd year jump in improved play, and Paris Campbell stays injury and makes a 2nd jump as well to make us not regret no drafting A

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I didn’t like the pick either and he didn’t show much to dispel that feeling as a rookie but I’m not gonna give up on him yet. He’s very clearly a bright young man, by all accounts is a hard worker, and he has pretty solid athleticism. He has all the makings of a good player so hopefully his talent catches up to his potential. 

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Stampede Blue had a very different take on him than you did.

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2020/2/4/21121418/film-room-rookie-review-of-ben-banogus-season

 

"While it wasn’t a big splash rookie season Banogu, he did flash potential in the few games that he saw significant snaps. He finished the year with 11 total tackles, 11 hurries, 3 sacks, and a forced fumble playing in just 26% of the defensive snaps."

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Banogu is a player that was drafted for his body type and potential. Many NFL players do not reach their true potential, (Q. Wilson for example).

 

Just two picks later, the Titans selected A.J. Brown. I'd much rather have A.J. Brown and was upset when Banogu was selected instead.

 

image.png.8a2cdf924f16c89a1f4b2a4c240d1a8f.png

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4 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Stampede Blue had a very different take on him than you did.

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2020/2/4/21121418/film-room-rookie-review-of-ben-banogus-season

 

"While it wasn’t a big splash rookie season Banogu, he did flash potential in the few games that he saw significant snaps. He finished the year with 11 total tackles, 11 hurries, 3 sacks, and a forced fumble playing in just 26% of the defensive snaps."

 

Forsure, but thats the problem with stat watching to an extent. His best game was the Broncos game. The FF and the sack was not a product of his good play, it was a hail mary type play where he got ran around the edge, then saw Flacco scrambled right, into his path and got him from behind.

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Agree,  A.J. Brown was a big miss by Ballard, unless Banogu makes a big 2nd year jump in improved play, and Paris Campbell stays injury and makes a 2nd jump as well to make us not regret no drafting AJ Brown.  

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24 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

Was just going throw tape breakdowns of last season. I was surprised of the Banogu pick so early in the 2nd round at first and was willing to give him a chance. But man, I just don't see anything in his tape. He doesn't have great bend, no real go to rush move, not great agility, motor isn't all that hot either. I love Turays tape and its a shame his season ended how it did, but I'm just not seeing it with Banogu.

 

It almost seems like they drafted him high because they thought he would be that Jamie Collins type, where he could play SAM, then move to DE during passing downs, which made him valuable. But once they axed that idea in training camp, half his value goes out the window.

 

Am I missing something?

 

   He is a solid athlete and has a high motor. Relentless even. If we can get some interior push he has very good ability to chase, pressure, catch a moving QB. He is working in the Mathis Academy to get better. He is a high floor type with good upside.

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Ballard definitely reached on picking Banogu, one thing I've noticed is that he likes to try and find those diamond in the rough kind of guys rather than go with the popular opinion guys. A.J Brown was right there for the taking and instead we reached on a DE/LB that likely won't make it through for a 2nd contract. It's kind of frustrating seeing these kind of picks, but oh well. Gotta have faith in Ballard. 

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28 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Banogu is a player that was drafted for his body type and potential. Many NFL players do not reach their true potential, (Q. Wilson for example).

 

Just two picks later, the Titans selected A.J. Brown. I'd much rather have A.J. Brown and was upset when Banogu was selected instead.

 

image.png.8a2cdf924f16c89a1f4b2a4c240d1a8f.png

 

19 minutes ago, Caffrey said:

Agree,  A.J. Brown was a big miss by Ballard, unless Banogu makes a big 2nd year jump in improved play, and Paris Campbell stays injury and makes a 2nd jump as well to make us not regret no drafting AJ Brown.  

Using hindsight serves no purpose at this point.

At the time Banogu was drafted Ballard had no clue we would end up with the wide receiver position being what it ended up being. 

Every fan in this forum thought we were in good shape at the receiver position. 

 

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24 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

Forsure, but thats the problem with stat watching to an extent.

Actually, if you click on the link that quote came from, you'll see that the article consists of them going through the video of his plays, one by one, discussing how he performed on each of them. It's a tape breakdown. Of Banogu. The quote was their summary of his stats, to provide context.

 

Their analysis of Banogu's tape contrasts starkly from the OP's, which is why I felt it appropriate fodder for this thread.

 

By the way, for what it's worth, those stats came from him playing a quarter of the defensive snaps last season.

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2 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Actually, if you click on the link that quote came from, you'll see that the article consists of them going through the video of his plays, one by one, discussing how he performed on each of them. It's a tape breakdown. Of Banogu. The quote was their summary of his stats, to provide context.

 

Their analysis of Banogu's tape contrasts starkly from the OP's, which is why I felt it appropriate fodder for this thread.

 

By the way, for what it's worth, those stats came from him playing a quarter of the defensive snaps last season.

 

Its a good article don't get me wrong, not saying he was a total dud on the field. But articles like that, you can make alot of guys look good when you just take clips here and there. Like a highlight video. Have to watch full game film to see the good and the bad.
 

He has upside obviously due to his upside. I just don't see him being an above average pass rusher.
 

Also, I don't see the relentless motor that everyone loves to shove down our throats with him. Even going back to his college tape. Often gives up on plays if its on away from his side, not alot of backside pressure. 

 

I think AQM gets slept on alot here. Not high upside, but IMO, he's what people say Banogu is, he has a high motor, decent rotational edge.

 

All my opinion of course.

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8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

 

Using hindsight serves no purpose at this point.

At the time Banogu was drafted Ballard had no clue we would end up with the wide receiver position being what it ended up being. 

Every fan in this forum thought we were in good shape at the receiver position. 

 

Not sure about every fan. Most wanted A.J. brown or even metcalf when he started falling. A lot liked the campbell pick because they thought finding a replacement for ty was needed.

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Finding top edge rushers is difficult when you don’t Routinely pick at the top of the draft.  Ballard finds athletic guys with measurable and coaches them up.  What else are you going to do? You can’t get a good one unless he’s 30 like  Houston. 

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I actually thought Banogu played better than I anticipated coming into the season.

 

I definitely see some potential. Hopefully working with Mathis, Houston and Turay help him take his game to the next level. 

 

Have to think part of the reason for not going after Clowney(outside of $$), is more playing time for Banogu?

 

Idk, could be wrong on that take?

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18 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

 

Using hindsight serves no purpose at this point.

At the time Banogu was drafted Ballard had no clue we would end up with the wide receiver position being what it ended up being. 

Every fan in this forum thought we were in good shape at the receiver position. 

 

Ok, this I have to disagree with a lot.

 

Many on this forum did not believe that the WR position was in good shape.  Funchess on a one year, Inman gone, Cain coming off a knee, Fountain not showing anything.  

 

It's not hindsight.  Many are going back to what they were thinking at the time and remembering how much they thought Benago was a bad pick with Brown sitting there.  Not to mention we already had Turay and Lewis drafted the year before in the second round for pass rush.   That looked shored up for the present and future but WR had questions throughout, IMO   

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56 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Banogu is a player that was drafted for his body type and potential. Many NFL players do not reach their true potential, (Q. Wilson for example).

 

Just two picks later, the Titans selected A.J. Brown. I'd much rather have A.J. Brown and was upset when Banogu was selected instead.

 

image.png.8a2cdf924f16c89a1f4b2a4c240d1a8f.png

Yes, in hindsight, Brown would be nice. But we had Hilton, had just signed Devin Funchess, and literally drafted a WR just a few picks earlier in the draft. Brown was nowhere near being in the picture at that point, no matter what anybody says. You don't pick two WRs back to back in the 2nd round unless you are a team with a desperate need at the position and few holes elsewhere. We were not that team, we had WR's, we needed help elsewhere. It just wasn't sensible at that point.

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7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ok, this I have to disagree with a lot.

 

Many on this forum did not believe that the WR position was in good shape.  Funchess on a one year, Inman gone, Cain coming off a knee, Fountain not showing anything.  

 

It's not hindsight.  Many are going back to what they were thinking at the time and remembering how much they thought Benago was a bad pick with Brown sitting there.  Not to mention we already had Turay and Lewis drafted the year before in the second round for pass rush.   That looked shored up for the present and future but WR had questions throughout, IMO   

As I said above, we had just signed Funchess, who we thought would be a good WR2, and drafted Parris Campbell just a few picks before. AJ Brown is nice, and was a great prospect, but you don't go back to back at WR unless you have no other holes and a massive gap at WR. We had neither at that time.

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Just now, WarGhost21 said:

As I said above, we had just signed Funchess, who we thought would be a good WR2, and drafted Parris Campbell just a few picks before. AJ Brown is nice, and was a great prospect, but you don't go back to back at WR unless you have no other holes and a massive gap at WR. We had neither at that time.

I think going from Luck (retirement) to Briskett exposed that weakness with the WR group.

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8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ok, this I have to disagree with a lot.

 

Many on this forum did not believe that the WR position was in good shape.  Funchess on a one year, Inman gone, Cain coming off a knee, Fountain not showing anything.  

 

It's not hindsight.  Many are going back to what they were thinking at the time and remembering how much they thought Benago was a bad pick with Brown sitting there.  Not to mention we already had Turay and Lewis drafted the year before in the second round for pass rush.   That looked shored up for the present and future but WR had questions throughout, IMO   

My memory is not bad at all. The wide receiver position was not thought to be a problem going into last years draft. 

Once again using hindsight to judge and pull the what ifs serves no purpose. 

I don't cry over spilled milk. 

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1 minute ago, Virtuoso80 said:

I think going from Luck (retirement) to Briskett exposed that weakness with the WR group.

Absolutely agreed. We didn't need much WR help because we had a QB who could get it done with anybody. Once that disappeared, the need showed up, but at draft time, there wasn't a need after already picking a WR

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1 minute ago, WarGhost21 said:

As I said above, we had just signed Funchess, who we thought would be a good WR2, and drafted Parris Campbell just a few picks before. AJ Brown is nice, and was a great prospect, but you don't go back to back at WR unless you have no other holes and a massive gap at WR. We had neither at that time.

I agree that you don't pick WRs in the second round back to back, but you also don't pick three pass rushers in the second round in consecutive years.  In fact, Ballard picked Turay and Lewis back to back in the second round the year before.  PC was the slot, Brown would be play the opposite of TY and spell Funchess, Cain, Rogers, and Fountain would be depth. 

 

If Funch was signed long term beyond one year, then there is no need to find a permanent #2.

 

We're in the same boat today as we were last year.  PC is as unknown as Fountain and Cain were last year, and Pascal isn't Funchess.  Drafting two WRs or a WR and a receiving TE in the second round is not out of the question

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10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

My memory is not bad at all. The wide receiver position was not thought to be a problem going into last years draft. 

Once again using hindsight to judge and pull the what ifs serves no purpose. 

I don't cry over spilled milk. 

Its not hindsight.  Quit trying to say it was when it isn't.  Many people thought the WR position last season was bad with needing a long term #2 and all we did was sign Funch for a year and draft a slot.

 

It was REALLY bad before the draft.  That's why Ballard signed stop gap Funch and drafted slot PC in the first place, because the position was horrible.

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Oddly enough, he appears to be much better rushing from the inside than off the edge.

Give him time. I still think he'll be good and a guy that plays well in. if moments

Just now, Gigc said:

Oddly enough, he appears to be much better rushing from the inside than off the edge.

Give him time. I still think he'll be good and a guy that plays well in big moments

 

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Its not hindsight.  Quit trying to say it was when it isn't.  Many people thought the WR position last season was bad with needing a long term #2 and all we did was sign Funch for a year and draft a slot.

Not at the time Banogu was drafted. 

Now it's easy to use hindsight after the fact. 

Even bringing Brown into the picture and judging what we should have done is exactly what hindsight is. 

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4 minutes ago, Virtuoso80 said:

I can somewhat agree to that but Luck could throw to any wr (with anticipation and touch) unlike Briskett.

Well it was a combination of both. 

We ended up with a receiver that wasn't even on a roster till injuries warranted bringing in a healthy receiver. 

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23 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Not at the time Banogu was drafted. 

Now it's easy to use hindsight after the fact. 

Even bringing Brown into the picture and judging what we should have done is exactly what hindsight is. 

No.  Seeing that AJBrown was a good fit for our offense when we have had no clear #2 WR is not hindsight.  Thinking that he would be a better pick than either PC or Benagu, or both, at the time is not hindsight.  Remembering what you were thinking in the second round last year is not hindsight.

 

Remembering that I've been lecturing the forum about not having a good #2 WR each year for five years ever since Reggie hurt his knee is not called hindsight.  Its called recall.

 

How Benagu, PC, or Brown performed this year has nothing to do with that.

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

No.  Seeing that AJBrown was a good fit for our offense when we have had no clear #2 WR is not hindsight.  Thinking that he would be a better pick than either PC or Benagu, or both, at the time is not hindsight.  Remembering what you were thinking in the second round last year is not hindsight.

 

Remembering that I've been lecturing the forum about not having a good #2 WR each year for five years ever since Reggie hurt his knee is not called hindsight.  Its called recall.

 

How Benagu, PC, or Brown performed this year has nothing to do with that.

We had already drafted a wide receiver. 

What about that do you not understand? 

Just bringing up we should have done this or should have done that is exactly what hindsight is. What about that do you not understand? 

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58 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

As I said above, we had just signed Funchess, who we thought would be a good WR2, and drafted Parris Campbell just a few picks before. AJ Brown is nice, and was a great prospect, but you don't go back to back at WR unless you have no other holes and a massive gap at WR. We had neither at that time.

 

Not true. Parris Campbell was drafted AFTER AJ Brown, several picks later at pick No.59 if I remember correctly. His pick would not have been necessary if we drafted A J Brown. So, the need was there to draft a WR, just that it was done later.

 

However, the argument is against whether Banogu was BPA, I didn't think so (which doesn't matter) but neither was Braden Smith and he turned out fine. That is just the nature of the draft, you hit some and miss some. It was the player more than the position, IMO. We realized we had a need at WR but skill positions, unless you are running a complicated offense, are easier to contribute at the NFL level than DL, IMO. Plus, a smart or franchise QB can make your skill positions look far better as well.

 

It is like comparing apples and oranges, when comparing DL and skill positions, IMO, drafted in the same vicinity. Right now, all Colts fans, and Ballard in particular wants is some stability and being free from the injury bug. Coaches not leaving, QBs not leaving, players not dropping like flies due to injuries etc. would go a long way to help. :) 

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Just now, crazycolt1 said:

We had already drafted a wide receiver. 

What about that do you not understand? 

Just bringing up we should have done this or should have done that is exactly what hindsight is. What about that do you not understand? 

Drafting a slot is not the same thing as drafting an outside guy.  What do you not understand about people wanting to draft an outside guy instead of another pass rusher?  Especially if you simply follow BPA.

 

Why is so difficult for you to believe that many on the forum wanted to draft AJBrown instead of Ben at the time, especially since that's exactly what they are telling you?

 

Hindsight is using facts that you know now....about what has happened over the past year....to reconsider how you viewed things in the past.  The only person talking about hindsight is you.

 

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5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Not true. Parris Campbell was drafted AFTER AJ Brown, several picks later at pick No.59 if I remember correctly. His pick would not have been necessary if we drafted A J Brown. So, the need was there to draft a WR, just that it was done later.

 

However, the argument is against whether Banogu was BPA, I didn't think so (which doesn't matter) but neither was Braden Smith and he turned out fine. That is just the nature of the draft, you hit some and miss some. It was the player more than the position, IMO. We realized we had a need at WR but skill positions, unless you are running a complicated offense, are easier to contribute at the NFL level than DL, IMO. Plus, a smart or franchise QB can make your skill positions look far better as well.

 

It is like comparing apples and oranges, when comparing DL and skill positions, IMO, drafted in the same vicinity. Right now, all Colts fans, and Ballard in particular wants is some stability. Coaches not leaving, QBs not leaving etc. would go a little ways to help. :) 

Ah, true, my mistake. 

 

I agree with you on the rest though. Going into the draft, any single player could be a big hit or a big bust. There is no sure thing!

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2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Not true. Parris Campbell was drafted AFTER AJ Brown, several picks later at pick No.59 if I remember correctly. His pick would not have been necessary if we drafted A J Brown. So, the need was there to draft a WR, just that it was done later.

 

However, the argument is against whether Banogu was BPA, I didn't think so (which doesn't matter) but neither was Braden Smith and he turned out fine. That is just the nature of the draft, you hit some and miss some. It was the player more than the position, IMO. We realized we had a need at WR but skill positions, unless you are running a complicated offense, are easier to contribute at the NFL level than DL, IMO. 

 

It is like comparing apples and oranges, when comparing DL and skill positions, IMO, drafted in the same vicinity.

Thanks.  That's the way I remember it to, but didn't want to argue over that.  Regardless, they play two different positions and the need for a long term outside guy was still evident because we signed Funch to only one year....and Funch was a question mark to begin with given his history in CAR.

 

Getting a long term outside WR and a long term slot was more of a priority than getting another second round pass rusher.  Not to mention, of the three Brown was BPA at 49.

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