Justin Herbert takes on his critics

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is entertaining.

 

 

[funktacious2]

*smashes his foot*

[2006Coltsbestever]

, him in 4 years. Heard it here 1st  .

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

He really has no personality. Even though Luck was nice he had a goofy and fun nature to him. Herbert just seems to be really dull.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

He really has no personality. Even though Luck was nice he had a goofy and fun nature to him. Herbert just seems to be really dull.

He can't carry Luck's Jockstrap. Luck had 4 solid years in the NFL with 4 playoff wins. This dude along with Tua won't last long in the NFL. Tua because of injuries IMO. Jordan Love will have a better NFL career than either.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He can't carry Luck's Jockstrap. Luck had 4 solid years in the NFL with 4 playoff wins. This dude along with Tua won't last long in the NFL. Tua because of injuries IMO. Jordan Love will have a better NFL career than either.

I think he has a load of talent and his teammates loved him.  It seems on the field he still had the same issues he had as a freshman. Teams will have to figure out if it was the Oregon’s offensive scheme or him. He makes great throws and is so athletic. Makes great throws on the run. I just can’t get past his personality and how dull he seems. We need a QB who holds teammates accountable. He would really benefit sitting behind Rivers for a year and learning how to be a leader. Rivers would be the perfect mentor for Herberts weakness.

[Superman]

I thought this was hilarious.

[CR91]

Why does it matter? He's no longer on the colts radar if he even ever was

[Coffeedrinker]

If Herbert slides in the 1st like Aaron Rogers, the Colts would be remiss to not try to work a trade up to get him.  I don't know if he will be elite but he will be better than the likes of Watson, Prescott, Cousins, Jackson, etc.

 

Personally, in the WTNP Ep2, when they were talking about it would cost too much to get him, I think they were talking about Herbert.

[LockeDown]

That was pretty funny.  I would draft him early and his piano in the 5th round. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, LockeDown said:

That was pretty funny.  I would draft him early and his piano in the 5th round. 

How about this one in round 4 , it's fine tuned and durable as you can see 

[LockeDown]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

How about this one in round 4 , it's fine tuned and durable as you can see 

Haha. I can hear that sweet sound now as he practices Journey instead of watching tape on the Jaquars. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Haha. I can hear that sweet sound now as he practices Journey instead of watching tape on the Jaquars. 

I am giving Herbert a bad rap but it's all in fun. Watch him turn out like Peyton Manning, I would  at myself  

[LockeDown]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am giving Herbert a bad rap but it's all in fun. Watch him turn out like Peyton Manning, I would  at myself  

yeah, it’s all fun. Lord knows the media and fans will be a lot worse than this if he doesn’t play well.

[Smoke317]

On 4/13/2020 at 4:13 PM, Coffeedrinker said:

If Herbert slides in the 1st like Aaron Rogers, the Colts would be remiss to not try to work a trade up to get him.  I don't know if he will be elite but he will be better than the likes of Watson, Prescott, Cousins, Jackson, etc.

 

Personally, in the WTNP Ep2, when they were talking about it would cost too much to get him, I think they were talking about Herbert.

You have major faith in Herbert.  You named some serious names there.  Better than Watson?  Watson had 19 td’s in 6 starts as a rookie before getting hurt.  Then came back with 26 (31 including rushing) & 26 (33) this past year.  And has a career rating of 101 so far.  And has led his team to the playoffs twice in both his healthy seasons.

 

Jackson just won the MVP & has led his teams to the playoffs in both his first 2 seasons.  Dak has never had a losing record in his first 4 years as a starter (2 postseason trips) and has a 97 career rating.  Cousins has hit 70% completions once & 69% twice. 96.8 career rating.  
 

If Herbert is gonna be better than all those guys, then he’s definitely gonna have to be elite.  He may have the metrics but I’m not sold on the intangibles yet.  Maybe dropping will help him.  Go to a solid team where he won’t have to much pressure to carry a franchise and maybe not play early?  Jackson, Dak, & Watson (foolishly except for his first game) all started as rookies and were effective immediately. 

[Stephen]

On 4/13/2020 at 4:13 PM, Coffeedrinker said:

If Herbert slides in the 1st like Aaron Rogers, the Colts would be remiss to not try to work a trade up to get him.  I don't know if he will be elite but he will be better than the likes of Watson, Prescott, Cousins, Jackson, etc.

 

Personally, in the WTNP Ep2, when they were talking about it would cost too much to get him, I think they were talking about Herbert.

Idk my co worker  is an Oregon  fan and he hates Herbert. Said he would check down too much and miss wide open guys.

[Coffeedrinker]

7 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

You have major faith in Herbert.  You named some serious names there.  Better than Watson?  Watson had 19 td’s in 6 starts as a rookie before getting hurt.  Then came back with 26 (31 including rushing) & 26 (33) this past year.  And has a career rating of 101 so far.  And has led his team to the playoffs twice in both his healthy seasons.

So, Watson has also had a good team but like so many others, Watson has trouble reading defenses, will make big plays but struggles to make the mid range plays to keep drives alive and he loses confidence easily and will not regain it in the game once he loses it.

7 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

 

Jackson just won the MVP & has led his teams to the playoffs in both his first 2 seasons.  Dak has never had a losing record in his first 4 years as a starter (2 postseason trips) and has a 97 career rating.  Cousins has hit 70% completions once & 69% twice. 96.8 career rating.  

Jackson had a great season but he is still just a good QB. A lot of the same issues as Watson.  I can't even believe you are trying to make out Dak as anything but an average QB.  Cousins is the best of the bunch but he is also just a good QB.

7 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

If Herbert is gonna be better than all those guys, then he’s definitely gonna have to be elite.  He may have the metrics but I’m not sold on the intangibles yet.  Maybe dropping will help him.  Go to a solid team where he won’t have to much pressure to carry a franchise and maybe not play early?  Jackson, Dak, & Watson (foolishly except for his first game) all started as rookies and were effective immediately. 

Not sold on his intangibles, who cares all you know about his intangibles is what you've read in a few scouting reports.

 

Now I see why you think they are next to elite QBs, you have a low idea of effective.

 

Dak - 25/45 220+ yards 0/0, 5 yards per attempt and a loss.  Not effective.

DeShaun Watson 12/23 102 yards 1 TD/1 INT 4.8 yards per attempt and a loss. Not effective

Lamar Jackson 13/19 150 yards 0/1 7.8 yards per attemp 26 carries 119 yards - Moderately effective throwing, very effective running.  And Jackson didn't get his first start until week 10 when the Ravens thought they were out of the playoff race.

[Coffeedrinker]

3 hours ago, Stephen said:

Idk my co worker  is an Oregon  fan and he hates Herbert. Said he would check down too much and miss wide open guys.

Good to know.  But I don't base my opinion on my coworkers, I'm not going to base my opinion on your coworkers either.

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Good to know.  But I don't base my opinion on my coworkers, I'm not going to base my opinion on your coworkers either.

I don't  usually  either. I was surprised  he was so negative  about him. He liked mariota better. 

Personally  I don't  think Herbert  is bad.

[Smoke317]

6 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

So, Watson has also had a good team but like so many others, Watson has trouble reading defenses, will make big plays but struggles to make the mid range plays to keep drives alive and he loses confidence easily and will not regain it in the game once he loses it.

Jackson had a great season but he is still just a good QB. A lot of the same issues as Watson.  I can't even believe you are trying to make out Dak as anything but an average QB.  Cousins is the best of the bunch but he is also just a good QB.

Not sold on his intangibles, who cares all you know about his intangibles is what you've read in a few scouting reports.

 

Now I see why you think they are next to elite QBs, you have a low idea of effective.

 

Dak - 25/45 220+ yards 0/0, 5 yards per attempt and a loss.  Not effective.

DeShaun Watson 12/23 102 yards 1 TD/1 INT 4.8 yards per attempt and a loss. Not effective

Lamar Jackson 13/19 150 yards 0/1 7.8 yards per attemp 26 carries 119 yards - Moderately effective throwing, very effective running.  And Jackson didn't get his first start until week 10 when the Ravens thought they were out of the playoff race.

Why is Cousins the best of that bunch when his career resume, as far as team success goes, doesn't show him as being a more effective franchise QB.  2 playoff appearances in 5 years as a starter with 3 learning & gathering experience years.  He just got his first win this year.

 

So what are you looking for in a franchise QB?  Numbers or wins?  Or a combination of both but what's the split?  60/40 with numbers being most important?  Give me wins as most important.

 

The 3 guys you just minimized have 2 playoff appearances in 4 years with 1 win: Dak.  2 playoff appearances in 3 years with 1 win: Watson. And 2 playoff appearances in 2 years with 0 wins for Jackson.  Those guys have already accomplished more success than Cousins has in less time. 

 

And what are you pointing out with those numbers?  Their last losing playoff games?  If so then you're showing that you're basing your QB likes and dislikes on something other than football.  Here's the worshipped Peyton Mannings stats in his 1st 3 playoff games (no wins...).

Gm1: 19/42  227 yards, 0/0, 5.4 yards per attempt.

Gm 2:  17/32  194 yards, 1/0 6.1 yards per attempt

Gm 3:  14/31  137 yards,  0/2  4.4 yards per attempt

 

And Cousins (don't know why you left him off...)  was 21/29  172 yards.  1/1  5.9 yards per attempt.  You'd see that and say he played effectively right?  Typical Cousins game.  Empty and effectively, ineffective stats.  High completion percentage but 6 sacks taken.  Manages to put up only 10 points.  I'd say ultimately he was just as ineffective as those other 3 guys when it mattered most.

 

The only things you said correctly were that Jackson didn't start until midway through his rookie season.  And that I have a low idea of you effectively judging QB's  

[Coffeedrinker]

55 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Why is Cousins the best of that bunch when his career resume, as far as team success goes, doesn't show him as being a more effective franchise QB.  2 playoff appearances in 5 years as a starter with 3 learning & gathering experience years.  He just got his first win this year.

 

So what are you looking for in a franchise QB?  Numbers or wins?  Or a combination of both but what's the split?  60/40 with numbers being most important?  Give me wins as most important.

Guys that can pull a team out when they are behind, guys that can make the crucial 3rd down pass for a first down (and no I don't mean dumping it off and letting the RB/WR do all the ork for the first down), guys that can put the team on their shoulder and pull out a win.  

 

I know, you will point to where that happened but they don't do it consistently enough.  that is why they are good QBs, not great.

55 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

 

The 3 guys you just minimized have 2 playoff appearances in 4 years with 1 win: Dak.  2 playoff appearances in 3 years with 1 win: Watson. And 2 playoff appearances in 2 years with 0 wins for Jackson.  Those guys have already accomplished more success than Cousins has in less time. 

5 playoff games with 1 win between 3 of them... Yeah, that's awesome.

55 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

 

And what are you pointing out with those numbers?  Their last losing playoff games?  If so then you're showing that you're basing your QB likes and dislikes on something other than football.  Here's the worshipped Peyton Mannings stats in his 1st 3 playoff games (no wins...).

Gm1: 19/42  227 yards, 0/0, 5.4 yards per attempt.

Gm 2:  17/32  194 yards, 1/0 6.1 yards per attempt

Gm 3:  14/31  137 yards,  0/2  4.4 yards per attempt

You said they Watson, Prescott and Jackson started right away and played effectively in their first start..  I was just pointing out they did not play effectively in their 1st start.

 

What's your point with Manning's numbers?  I never claimed Manning played effectively in his first start, no did I claim that first start numbers were indicative of a career.  Just that you claimed they played effectively and I proved that wrong.

55 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

 

And Cousins (don't know why you left him off...)  was 21/29  172 yards.  1/1  5.9 yards per attempt.  You'd see that and say he played effectively right?  Typical Cousins game. 

I did not include Cousins because you mentioned only Watson, Jackson and Prescott and playing right away and playing effectively in their first start.  You did not make that claim about Cousins, so I did not include his numbers

55 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

 

Empty and effectively, ineffective stats.  High completion percentage but 6 sacks taken.  Manages to put up only 10 points.  I'd say ultimately he was just as ineffective as those other 3 guys when it mattered most.

You're right, Cousins was not effective his first game... Of course I never claimed he did and neither did you, that is why I did not include his numbers.

55 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

 

The only things you said correctly were that Jackson didn't start until midway through his rookie season.  And that I have a low idea of you effectively judging QB's  

If you say so.  But from these last couple of posts we have determined that what you see and reality are often very, very different.

[Smoke317]

3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Guys that can pull a team out when they are behind, guys that can make the crucial 3rd down pass for a first down (and no I don't mean dumping it off and letting the RB/WR do all the ork for the first down), guys that can put the team on their shoulder and pull out a win.  

 

I know, you will point to where that happened but they don't do it consistently enough.  that is why they are good QBs, not great.

5 playoff games with 1 win between 3 of them... Yeah, that's awesome.

You said they Watson, Prescott and Jackson started right away and played effectively in their first start..  I was just pointing out they did not play effectively in their 1st start.

 

What's your point with Manning's numbers?  I never claimed Manning played effectively in his first start, no did I claim that first start numbers were indicative of a career.  Just that you claimed they played effectively and I proved that wrong.

I did not include Cousins because you mentioned only Watson, Jackson and Prescott and playing right away and playing effectively in their first start.  You did not make that claim about Cousins, so I did not include his numbers

You're right, Cousins was not effective his first game... Of course I never claimed he did and neither did you, that is why I did not include his numbers.

If you say so.  But from these last couple of posts we have determined that what you see and reality are often very, very different.

You question my view on reality but you say you KNOW Herbert is gonna be better than Watson, Jackson, & Dak.  3 young guys who have already had success in their first 3 years.  So how do you KNOW?  Herbert hasn’t lit up the PAC 12 in his career. Hasn’t won a championship or Heisman. All while playing in the PAC 12 which is far from being the dominant conference it used to be.

 

From what I can tell, you chose out 3 young African American QB’s who have been achieving success by playing their game (which may not fit the way you want them to play) early in their careers & you want to minimize their accomplishments while stating how you KNOW this unproven guy will be better.

 

The only thing that’s coming through your posts are your biases. Try to conceal it by picking out their poor games.  And by lumping them in with a guy who hasn’t accomplished any more than them in twice as long as a career.  Sure you say he’s only good too BUT better than the guy who won the MVP in his 2nd season as a starter and the guy who’s led his team to back to back division crowns and a playoff victory...  

 

Yeah I’m seeing your reality very clearly.

[aaron11]

22 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

You question my view on reality but you say you KNOW Herbert is gonna be better than Watson, Jackson, & Dak.  3 young guys who have already had success in their first 3 years.  So how do you KNOW?  Herbert hasn’t lit up the PAC 12 in his career. Hasn’t won a championship or Heisman. All while playing in the PAC 12 which is far from being the dominant conference it used to be.

 

From what I can tell, you chose out 3 young African American QB’s who have been achieving success by playing their game (which may not fit the way you want them to play) early in their careers & you want to minimize their accomplishments while stating how you KNOW this unproven guy will be better.

 

The only thing that’s coming through your posts are your biases. Try to conceal it by picking out their poor games.  And by lumping them in with a guy who hasn’t accomplished any more than them in twice as long as a career.  Sure you say he’s only good too BUT better than the guy who won the MVP in his 2nd season as a starter and the guy who’s led his team to back to back division crowns and a playoff victory...  

 

Yeah I’m seeing your reality very clearly.

 

some people just dont like running qbs.  cam newton gets a lot of this too

 

they have all been good in their own way, id take lamar or deshaun over Herbert easily 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 4/12/2020 at 2:10 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He can't carry Luck's Jockstrap. Luck had 4 solid years in the NFL with 4 playoff wins. This dude along with Tua won't last long in the NFL. Tua because of injuries IMO. Jordan Love will have a better NFL career than either.

I really dont think any of these qbs will amount to much. That includes Burrows.  I think it is a weak draft

[LockeDown]

45 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

You question my view on reality but you say you KNOW Herbert is gonna be better than Watson, Jackson, & Dak.  3 young guys who have already had success in their first 3 years.  So how do you KNOW?  Herbert hasn’t lit up the PAC 12 in his career. Hasn’t won a championship or Heisman. All while playing in the PAC 12 which is far from being the dominant conference it used to be.

 

From what I can tell, you chose out 3 young African American QB’s who have been achieving success by playing their game (which may not fit the way you want them to play) early in their careers & you want to minimize their accomplishments while stating how you KNOW this unproven guy will be better.

 

The only thing that’s coming through your posts are your biases. Try to conceal it by picking out their poor games.  And by lumping them in with a guy who hasn’t accomplished any more than them in twice as long as a career.  Sure you say he’s only good too BUT better than the guy who won the MVP in his 2nd season as a starter and the guy who’s led his team to back to back division crowns and a playoff victory...  

 

Yeah I’m seeing your reality very clearly.

That’s not cool. 

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

You question my view on reality but you say you KNOW Herbert is gonna be better than Watson, Jackson, & Dak.

Actually I said I don't if he will be elite but he will be better than...  And I'm sorry, I thought it went without saying that on a fan forum things were opinions not facts but I guess I will have to spell it out when conversing with you.

Quote

 

 3 young guys who have already had success in their first 3 years.  So how do you KNOW?  Herbert hasn’t lit up the PAC 12 in his career. Hasn’t won a championship or Heisman. All while playing in the PAC 12 which is far from being the dominant conference it used to be.

Ok.

Quote

 

From what I can tell, you chose out 3 young African American QB’s who have been achieving success by playing their game (which may not fit the way you want them to play) early in their careers & you want to minimize their accomplishments while stating how you KNOW this unproven guy will be better.

Ahh, you are one of those... you cannot make a point on merits so you turn it into something it's not... in this case a racial thing.   If I knew you were going to take the conversation into idiocy I would not have replied to you in the first place.

 

[Smoke317]

10 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Actually I said I don't if he will be elite but he will be better than...  And I'm sorry, I thought it went without saying that on a fan forum things were opinions not facts but I guess I will have to spell it out when conversing with you.

Ok.

Ahh, you are one of those... you cannot make a point on merits so you turn it into something it's not... in this case a racial thing.   If I knew you were going to take the conversation into idiocy I would not have replied to you in the first place.

 

It’s only 1 * here.  Show me where you based Herbert being better than them on merit?  What has Herbert done to merit you KNOWING he would be better?  Was it your cherry picked stats that showed they were ineffective?  I cherry picked some ineffective Peyton Manning games out.  Does Herbert merit your stamp of approval that you KNOW he’s gonna be better than Peyton Manning too?  

 

And yeah I’m one of “those” that’s gonna call you on your nonsense.  I grew up around “your type” (since we’re going with generalized labels).  You lift up “your type” or the “type you like” & praise them & lift them above others based on things besides merit or accomplishment. Notice how you even re-quoted yourself to double down on your bias.  
 

“I never said he would be elite but he’ll be better than “those guys”. Based off of what?  Where’s the merit?  “Cousins isn’t great but he’s better than “those guys”...  Based off of what?  Where’s the merit?  No numbers. No metrics.  

 

And I’m not a Herbert hater.  I think he’s got all of the tools to succeed.  I like his size & the fact that he’s actually very mobile.  He’s got a good arm too.  He could end up being better than all of them or he could end up being the next Brock Osweiler.  We don’t KNOW yet.  
 

You’ve typed paragraphs & haven’t given any merits to explain how you KNOW Herbert is gonna be better than the reigning MVP in Jackson & a guy in Watson who has won 2 division titles in 3 years & was looking quite effective & record setting before getting hurt his rookie year also.  I’m not the biggest Dak fan but the guy isn’t a slouch & has been quite effective & hasn’t had a losing record in his 4 years as a starter.  So see I gave you merits for those guys.  Where are yours?  
 

And speaking of idiocy.  I just couldn’t sit back & let you post something so *ic without calling you on it.  And you came back talking about merit & haven’t given any in this discussion but cherry picked stats from games that you didn’t even bother to specify or quantify...  You took this convo into idiocy with your very first post.  And here I am trying to respond sensibly to an *ic post...  I’ll leave the idiocy to you. I’m done with this discussion.