Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Sign in to follow this  
Lucky Colts Fan

Ballard compared to the other 31 GMs

Recommended Posts

nfl-draft-guide-each-gms-best-pick-top-value-pick-tendencies

 

This is an interesting read.  It gives the best overall pick of each GM, the best "value pick" of each GM, and the drafting tendencies of each GM.

 

Ballard:

Quote

Indianapolis Colts: Chris Ballard

Year hired: 2017
Number of players drafted: 29
List of Pro Bowlers: 2. LB Darius Leonard, OG Quenton Nelson.

BEST PICK: OG Quenton Nelson, 2018 (Round 1, No. 6 overall). One of the best college offensive linemen I ever scouted, Nelson is a mauler on a premier unit. He's tough, finishes blocks and excels as a run and pass blocker. Simply put, Nelson can do it all.

BEST VALUE PICK: LB Darius Leonard, 2018 (Round 2, No. 36). Leonard, who earned Defensive Rookie of the Year honors in 2018, is very instinctive and has the speed to make plays on the outside.

DEFINITIVE TRAIT/STYLE: Ballard looks for players with the physical traits to play the position of need and those who have a good football IQ and high character. The best example was taking Nelson, an offensive guard, sixth overall in 2018. That move has paid off in a major way.

 

I know Pro Bowlers aren't exactly the best criteria for judging GMs, but it's interesting to look at both the rate of Pro Bowlers drafted per year, and also the rate of Pro Bowlers drafter per number of picks.  I was surprised at how many GMs had a better Pro Bowl per year/pick ratio than Ballard.

 

Although, how do you really compare Ballard drafting two Pro Bowlers (and All Pros) in Nelson and Leonard, in the 29 picks he's made over the last three years to Jerry Jones drafting 36 Pro Bowlers in the 279 picks he's made over the last thirty years?  At the current rate Ballard is drafting, he would draft 20 Pro Bowlers in 290 picks over thirty years.  Does that mean Jerry "the meddler" Jones is a better GM than Ballard?  One could argue that Jones shouldn't get credit for all of them since Jimmy Johnson was the main man in drafting a lot of those Pro Bowlers.

 

If you read through all 32 GMs, it does show that Ballard is up there with pretty much any GM in the league, and has done a better job drafting than quite a few GMs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

nfl-draft-guide-each-gms-best-pick-top-value-pick-tendencies

 

This is an interesting read.  It gives the best overall pick of each GM, the best "value pick" of each GM, and the drafting tendencies of each GM.

 

Ballard:

 

I know Pro Bowlers aren't exactly the best criteria for judging GMs, but it's interesting to look at both the rate of Pro Bowlers drafted per year, and also the rate of Pro Bowlers drafter per number of picks.  I was surprised at how many GMs had a better Pro Bowl per year/pick ratio than Ballard.

 

Although, how do you really compare Ballard drafting two Pro Bowlers (and All Pros) in Nelson and Leonard, in the 29 picks he's made over the last three years to Jerry Jones drafting 36 Pro Bowlers in the 279 picks he's made over the last thirty years?  At the current rate Ballard is drafting, he would draft 20 Pro Bowlers in 290 picks over thirty years.  Does that mean Jerry "the meddler" Jones is a better GM than Ballard?  One could argue that Jones shouldn't get credit for all of them since Jimmy Johnson was the main man in drafting a lot of those Pro Bowlers.

 

If you read through all 32 GMs, it does show that Ballard is up there with pretty much any GM in the league, and has done a better job drafting than quite a few GMs.

 

Well first of all, not all Jones' pro-bowlers were pro-bowlers as rookies.  For example, Michael Irvin and Troy Aikman were drafted in '88 and '89, respectively.  They didn't make a probowl until 1991.  Arguably, because Emmit Smith (who made the probowl as a rookie in 1990) was added to form the original 'trio' (followed later by our Colts, who didn't see Marvin or Peyton become pro-bowlers until 1999 when Edge was drafted).  

 

Big Q and The Maniac were the first rookie duo to make first team all-pro on the same team (and 2nd time in NFL history) since 1965 when Dick Butkus and Gale Sayers did it.  Several players drafted by Ballard have potential to be pro-bowlers.  I won't be shocked to see Braden Smith, Marlon Mack, Malik Hooker, Rock Ya-Sin, Kemoko Turay, Ben Banogu, Bobby Okereke,  Anthony Walker, Khari Willis, Nyheim Hines (return man) make at least one pro-bowl before their careers are over (I doubt all of them will, but I'm sure at least one of those guys will, probably more).  

 

I don't have the time to do it, but I would bet that very few GMs have every single player from the past 3 drafts still in the NFL.  TBH, I wouldn't be shocked if Ballard is the only GM in the league who can say that.  

 

Of picks who didn't make it as Colts since Ballard started:

2017:
Basham is doing fine for the Jets as a rotational DL,

Zach Banner started 1 game in Pittsburgh and was depth for them last year,

Nate Hairston had a decent year with NYJ last year.

 

2018:

Deon Cain is the only one not still with the Colts (out of 11 picks, that's ridiculous), and he started 3 games for Pittsburgh last year coming off a bad injury as a rookie (he also started 3 with us before we put him to PS and he got claimed by Pitt)

 

2019:

Javon Patterson went on IR but is still with us.

Jackson Barton didn't make our team, but has a SB ring and is still with KC.

Gerri Green is the only other guy who was only a practice squad guy out of the 10 picks in that draft.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

nfl-draft-guide-each-gms-best-pick-top-value-pick-tendencies

 

This is an interesting read.  It gives the best overall pick of each GM, the best "value pick" of each GM, and the drafting tendencies of each GM.

 

Ballard:

 

I know Pro Bowlers aren't exactly the best criteria for judging GMs, but it's interesting to look at both the rate of Pro Bowlers drafted per year, and also the rate of Pro Bowlers drafter per number of picks.  I was surprised at how many GMs had a better Pro Bowl per year/pick ratio than Ballard.

 

Although, how do you really compare Ballard drafting two Pro Bowlers (and All Pros) in Nelson and Leonard, in the 29 picks he's made over the last three years to Jerry Jones drafting 36 Pro Bowlers in the 279 picks he's made over the last thirty years?  At the current rate Ballard is drafting, he would draft 20 Pro Bowlers in 290 picks over thirty years.  Does that mean Jerry "the meddler" Jones is a better GM than Ballard?  One could argue that Jones shouldn't get credit for all of them since Jimmy Johnson was the main man in drafting a lot of those Pro Bowlers.

 

If you read through all 32 GMs, it does show that Ballard is up there with pretty much any GM in the league, and has done a better job drafting than quite a few GMs.

Ballard has only been a GM Fir three years.   Most others he’s compared to have been a GM much longer.   
 

Patience,  Grasshopper!   

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the Colts start winning more players will make the pro bowl.  That’s a big IF tho...gotta get the QB position right.  Rivers is not a band aid. He is more of a paper towel and duct tape solution.  Gets the job done but you will want to change it the first opportunity you can.  I will admit he was the best solution available to win now. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the only Ballard pick that was shafted from a pro bowl was Darius leonard his rookie year, but he did make it last year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

nfl-draft-guide-each-gms-best-pick-top-value-pick-tendencies

 

This is an interesting read.  It gives the best overall pick of each GM, the best "value pick" of each GM, and the drafting tendencies of each GM.

 

Ballard:

 

I know Pro Bowlers aren't exactly the best criteria for judging GMs, but it's interesting to look at both the rate of Pro Bowlers drafted per year, and also the rate of Pro Bowlers drafter per number of picks.  I was surprised at how many GMs had a better Pro Bowl per year/pick ratio than Ballard.

 

Although, how do you really compare Ballard drafting two Pro Bowlers (and All Pros) in Nelson and Leonard, in the 29 picks he's made over the last three years to Jerry Jones drafting 36 Pro Bowlers in the 279 picks he's made over the last thirty years?  At the current rate Ballard is drafting, he would draft 20 Pro Bowlers in 290 picks over thirty years.  Does that mean Jerry "the meddler" Jones is a better GM than Ballard?  One could argue that Jones shouldn't get credit for all of them since Jimmy Johnson was the main man in drafting a lot of those Pro Bowlers.

 

If you read through all 32 GMs, it does show that Ballard is up there with pretty much any GM in the league, and has done a better job drafting than quite a few GMs.

Couple things.   Ballard inherited a very depleted roster and had to draft to fill gaps.  He couldn't just take the best available player in each round.  Now that the roster is more solid, the next few drafts will be more telling.  

 

The Cowboys typically get more pro bowlers because of their name and popularity.  If the Colts and the Cowboys both have a player with identical stats, it will be the Cowboy making the pro bowl.  

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

If the Colts start winning more players will make the pro bowl.  That’s a big IF tho...gotta get the QB position right.  Rivers is not a band aid. He is more of a paper towel and duct tape solution.  Gets the job done but you will want to change it the first opportunity you can.  I will admit he was the best solution available to win now. 

 

Yes, the probowl relies so much on fan votes.  Leonard didn't make the probowl (even though he was first team all-pro) as a rookie because he wasn't a household name.  It's kind of a joke, in some ways.

 

If we were winning games and on national TV more last year, Anthony Walker would have had a very good case at being a pro-bowler with his 124 tackles.  Braden Smith had a very solid year as well.

 

If our OL stays healthy and we have somewhat of a threatening passing game, Marlon Mack should have a very big year next year.    

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It feels like some of you think I was making a case against Ballard when comparing him to Jones.  That's not the case, I was trying to do the opposite with the Jimmy Johnson reference.  I don't think Jones is a better GM than Ballard.

 

I also mentioned that I don't think Pro Bowlers is the best metric for this comparison because if a player made the Pro Bowl once in their career, they were put on the list for their GM.  That is obviously going to make a guy like Jerry Jones look better since he's been in charge for the entire career of every Cowboy player since 1989.

 

Whereas Ballard only has 3 years under his belt so all of his draftees are still young.  A number of his draftees may end up as Pro Bowlers at some point.  But like I said, that's not even the best metric for comparing GMs since Pro Bowlers are voted on by fans anyway.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all the money he’s had available for free agency, his spending or lack of spending has been questionable. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A front office is only as good as the sum of its parts. Ballard put together a top notch scouting department, already losing Rex Hogan to the Jets to a better position... Ed Dodds is not making himself comfortable here, as I think he’ll be a GM in the next 3 years if he wants it. He inherited Mike Bluem who is brilliant. He’s continuing to experiment with Brian Decker, and from what little I have seen through “with the next pick” he isn’t going anywhere as we continue scraping low character and mentally weak players off the board because of Decker’s screening of every candidate. I like where his front office is, and I think it propels him in the top echelon of GM’s in this league as far as roster building goes. Frank Reich and the coaching staff translates that to the locker room. 
 

He’ll continue focusing on the draft with that, and we’ll continue to see a team getting better and more mature. He’ll keep the players that are pillars and get rid of the high priced free agents that we are bound to have to make decisions on. I believe Ballard is our best option. I believe he can figure the qb room out and will stay here for a long time when he does. I would not feel comfortable starting over any time soon with someone else, regardless of their experience or vision. Ballard has the vision and is putting it in play. He’s as young at this as this team is. He’s making mistakes that he won’t make again, and he’ll be damn good by the time this is all over. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

I won't be shocked to see Braden Smith, Marlon Mack, Malik Hooker, Rock Ya-Sin, Kemoko Turay, Ben Banogu, Bobby Okereke,  Anthony Walker, Khari Willis, Nyheim Hines (return man) make at least one pro-bowl before their careers are over (I doubt all of them will, but I'm sure at least one of those guys will, probably more).  

 

JMO...but outside of Smith...I would be very surprised if any of those guys made a Pro Bowl. And that's not really a knock on their talent...there is just a lot of talent in the NFL.

 

Hooker and Willis have to contend with Derwin James, Jamal Adams, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Justin Simmons, Kevin Byard, Justin Reid. I think Hooker could maybe get there if he put up a big INT season...but Willis doesn't really have much shot.

 

Mack has to contend with Nick Chubb, Derrick Henry, Josh Jacobs, Devin Singletary, Joe Mixon, Leonard Fournette...not to mention rookies coming into the league. That's a tall order...for a RB who is primarily a rusher.

 

DE is notoriously tough...especially when they include 3-4 DEs as well. I do think Turay is capable of a double-digit sack season if he can stay healthy...so he could be in the conversation.

 

CB is also notoriously tough...though Ya-Sin might have a shot as he develops into a lockdown CB.

 

Leonard is listed as a ILB...so he will be a mainstay at ILB in the Pro Bowl for years to come...leaving only two open spots. And I doubt they would give one of those two spots to the same team...unless they move Leonard to OLB. 

 

I won't say it's impossible...just very unlikely for everyone but Smith. But who knows what will happen. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

4 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Yes, the probowl relies so much on fan votes.  Leonard didn't make the probowl (even though he was first team all-pro) as a rookie because he wasn't a household name.  It's kind of a joke, in some ways.

 

If we were winning games and on national TV more last year, Anthony Walker would have had a very good case at being a pro-bowler with his 124 tackles.  Braden Smith had a very solid year as well.

 

If our OL stays healthy and we have somewhat of a threatening passing game, Marlon Mack should have a very big year next year.    

 

 

 

 

I would have to disagree with that. Walker didn't much of a case. 

 

Only two ILBs get in initially...and Leonard is listed as an ILB...which leaves one spot...and a few alternates.

 

So for the purpose of the Pro Bowl...Walker was probably (at best) MLB8 in the AFC last season (Leonard, Donte Hightower, Tremaine Edmunds, Devin Bush, Zach Cunningham, Rashaan Evans, Joe Schobert). 


Edmunds ultimately got the nod over other alternates Bush and Cunningham when Hightower backed out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

JMO...but outside of Smith...I would be very surprised if any of those guys made a Pro Bowl. And that's not really a knock on their talent...there is just a lot of talent in the NFL.

 

Hooker and Willis have to contend with Derwin James, Jamal Adams, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Justin Simmons, Kevin Byard, Justin Reid. I think Hooker could maybe get there if he put up a big INT season...but Willis doesn't really have much shot.

 

Mack has to contend with Nick Chubb, Derrick Henry, Josh Jacobs, Devin Singletary, Joe Mixon, Leonard Fournette...not to mention rookies coming into the league. That's a tall order...for a RB who is primarily a rusher.

 

DE is notoriously tough...especially when they include 3-4 DEs as well. I do think Turay is capable of a double-digit sack season if he can stay healthy...so he could be in the conversation.

 

CB is also notoriously tough...though Ya-Sin might have a shot as he develops into a lockdown CB.

 

Leonard is listed as a ILB...so he will be a mainstay at ILB in the Pro Bowl for years to come...leaving only two open spots. And I doubt they would give one of those two spots to the same team...unless they move Leonard to OLB. 

 

I won't say it's impossible...just very unlikely for everyone but Smith. But who knows what will happen. 

 

Yes, I don't think all of them will get in by any means.  

 

Nyheim Hines had 2 punt return TDs late last year and looked great in the role (I think Reich always envisioned him there, but he had some drops early on his rookie year and lost his chance until late last year).  He led the NFL in punt return TDs and was not our primary punt returner all year.  If he gets off to a start like he finished last year, he's got a shot at getting in.

 

If we start winning games and Rock Ya-Sin develops into a shutdown corner, fans will vote for him.  He's got one of the coolest names in football and I'm sure Berman and crew will come up with some catchy phrase around it to make him popular.

 

Mathis just said in an interview he believed Turay will be the NFL sack king within 1-2 years.  If that's the case, he's got a great shot.  Plus, also has a great name which helps with fan popularity.

 

I agree with you, it's highly unlikely Willis will make it to a probowl.  Also Walker.

 

If our pass rush improves significantly, I could see Hooker having a big INT year.

 

You are also right about the RB competition.  That said, if Mack puts up a monster year, which I think he can do behind this line, he certainly has a shot.  The fact that Brian Baldinger does a special on Big Q every week will help Mack, because the more people hear "Marlon Mack runs for big yards behind big Q" the more popular of a name his will become.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

 

I would have to disagree with that. Walker didn't much of a case. 

 

Only two ILBs get in initially...and Leonard is listed as an ILB...which leaves one spot...and a few alternates.

 

So for the purpose of the Pro Bowl...Walker was probably (at best) MLB8 in the AFC last season (Leonard, Donte Hightower, Tremaine Edmunds, Devin Bush, Zach Cunningham, Rashaan Evans, Joe Schobert). 


Edmunds ultimately got the nod over other alternates Bush and Cunningham when Hightower backed out. 

 

The probowl is also largely controlled by fan vote.  If we were getting prime time games and people were talking about Leonard and Walker being one of the best LB duos in the league, a lot more people would know his name.

 

I am not disagreeing with you that he's probably not in the top 5 ILBs in the AFC, but 124 tackles are legitimate.  Outside of Indy fans, it's not like Walker's a common household name.  If we're playing on prime time, and SportsCenter is talking about the guy and people start to know him, he'd have a case to get votes.

 

I mean, Leonard was an absolute beast as a rookie and didn't make pro-bowl but made 1st team all-pro (which is a much harder/greater accomplishment, IMO).  Why?  Because he played for a small market team and very few fans knew who he was outside of Indy.  Jack Doyle got in as an alternate last year when his numbers weren't even in the top 10 for TEs.  Why? Because he made it several years ago and fans know his name now.  Xavier Rhodes had the worst season of his career by far last year and got in? Why because people know who he is.  Not saying I think Walker should be in the pro-bowl, but there's a shot if he keeps putting up 120+ tackles and gets more hype that he'll get votes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

The probowl is also largely controlled by fan vote.  If we were getting prime time games and people were talking about Leonard and Walker being one of the best LB duos in the league, a lot more people would know his name.

 

I am not disagreeing with you that he's probably not in the top 5 ILBs in the AFC, but 124 tackles are legitimate.  Outside of Indy fans, it's not like Walker's a common household name.  If we're playing on prime time, and SportsCenter is talking about the guy and people start to know him, he'd have a case to get votes.

 

I mean, Leonard was an absolute beast as a rookie and didn't make pro-bowl but made 1st team all-pro (which is a much harder/greater accomplishment, IMO).  Why?  Because he played for a small market team and very few fans knew who he was outside of Indy.  Jack Doyle got in as an alternate last year when his numbers weren't even in the top 10 for TEs.  Why? Because he made it several years ago and fans know his name now.  Xavier Rhodes had the worst season of his career by far last year and got in? Why because people know who he is.  Not saying I think Walker should be in the pro-bowl, but there's a shot if he keeps putting up 120+ tackles and gets more hype that he'll get votes.

 

I think the fan vote is 1/3 of the equation. It certainly plays a role...but if people were voting for Walker...the coaches and players would still need to make up the other 2/3.

 

For example, Devin Bush actually led voting for ILBs...but only made it as the second alternate. 

 

If Walker was more of a household name...he might have a shot...but the rub is that you typically have to become a Pro Bowler first for that to happen...and I don't see a clear path for that happening.

 

I also don't think he's anywhere close to a Pro Bowl caliber player...but that's JMO.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reality is most front offices in the league have very similar success rate in the draft in the long run, so the biggest value comes not from some huge edge in evaluation, it comes from the management of the resources - i.e. accumulation of more pick is more valuable than marginal quality improvement of 10-15 slots in the draft order(I.e. 34+46>26)... This is where Ballard has shined so far. I love it that he seeks value in trading back from the early rounds picks. In the long run this will give good results and it gives you the chance to make targeted moves like the Buckner move because you know you still have 2 picks in the top 45.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its mostly about development. Always have. Some teams not only select the player that fits what they are going to demand of the player, but they are better at developing that player. Oodles of fans feel that it is the selecting process that ranks the GMs. I think  what they do post selection is what makes GM's great in the long run. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I think its mostly about development. Always have. Some teams not only select the player that fits what they are going to demand of the player, but they are better at developing that player. Oodles of fans feel that it is the selecting process that ranks the GMs. I think  what they do post selection is what makes GM's great in the long run. 

I agree to a degree but the player and position selected in the draft is huge.  We see some GM's who try to make a splash by taking a player/position high because it will excite the local media and some fans.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Myles said:

Couple things.   Ballard inherited a very depleted roster and had to draft to fill gaps.  He couldn't just take the best available player in each round.  Now that the roster is more solid, the next few drafts will be more telling.  

 

The Cowboys typically get more pro bowlers because of their name and popularity.  If the Colts and the Cowboys both have a player with identical stats, it will be the Cowboy making the pro bowl.  

I kind of think Ballard gets a pass by saying he inherited a depleted rister. It was his decsion to rip apart the D and jettison most of the players

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I think its mostly about development


I think our success as a team going forward is dependent on the quarterback and development of the young core of players we have brought in (and will continue bringing in) through the draft. Ballard has said from day one, you have to draft well and you have to have a coaching staff that can develop players. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

probably wont be a popular opinion but ballard had one really good draft and the others were just average

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/8/2020 at 9:47 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

nfl-draft-guide-each-gms-best-pick-top-value-pick-tendencies

 

This is an interesting read.  It gives the best overall pick of each GM, the best "value pick" of each GM, and the drafting tendencies of each GM.

 

Ballard:

 

I know Pro Bowlers aren't exactly the best criteria for judging GMs, but it's interesting to look at both the rate of Pro Bowlers drafted per year, and also the rate of Pro Bowlers drafter per number of picks.  I was surprised at how many GMs had a better Pro Bowl per year/pick ratio than Ballard.

 

Although, how do you really compare Ballard drafting two Pro Bowlers (and All Pros) in Nelson and Leonard, in the 29 picks he's made over the last three years to Jerry Jones drafting 36 Pro Bowlers in the 279 picks he's made over the last thirty years?  At the current rate Ballard is drafting, he would draft 20 Pro Bowlers in 290 picks over thirty years.  Does that mean Jerry "the meddler" Jones is a better GM than Ballard?  One could argue that Jones shouldn't get credit for all of them since Jimmy Johnson was the main man in drafting a lot of those Pro Bowlers.

 

If you read through all 32 GMs, it does show that Ballard is up there with pretty much any GM in the league, and has done a better job drafting than quite a few GMs.

 

The number of pro bowlers goes up the longer a GM is in because their draftee's have more chances beyond just their rookie year to make a pro-bowl.  So if Ya-Sin makes a pro-bowl after the 2020 season for example, Ballard gets another pro-bowler on his resume without actually making another draft pick.  

 

There are probably a couple of players on the Colts that are close but not quite there yet to earning a pro-bowl bid.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was not meant to be a comparison of GMs, but just the evaluation of their picks (best, value, popular vote) and their tendencies. They even listed in alphabetical order.

 

Pro Bowl being popular vote contest, you can't expect to have many players for a GM who hasn't even outlived a rookie contract yet. Give another few years, and pro bowl count for first three years may increase, or future years may compensate over the long term as the team gets better, if the results are consistent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

probably wont be a popular opinion but ballard had one really good draft and the others were just average

 

 

 

Meh you are wrong and the sample size is really small.  You can only measure 2 drafts.  His last draft is too early to measure.  

 

His first draft (2017) was above average.  I will grant misses on Wilson, Bashem, and Banner.  But we got Hooker, Mack, Stewart, and Walker.  3 starters and a role player.  That's pretty good.  I think most teams would call that a success.  

 

His 2nd draft (2018) was historically great.

 

His 3rd draft (2019) is too early to evaluate.  

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

But we got Hooker, Mack, Stewart, and Walker.  3 starters and a role player.  That's pretty good.  I think most teams would call that a success.  

you're wrong that does makes it average.  hooker is alright he hasnt been special. mack is pretty good the others are just guys. 

 

last years draft was nothing special either,  too soon to say they will definitely be good 

 

i said he had one good draft and stand by that.  find a non bias writer to rank that first draft year and see where they put us.  i looked and found a few and guess where they put us?  right where i said 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i doubt you can find one writer that would put the 2017 class in the top 10 that year, we wont be ranked high for taking guys like hooker and walker 

 

would hooker even go in the first in a re draft?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i doubt you can find one writer that would put the 2017 class in the top 10 that year, we wont be ranked high for taking guys like hooker and walker 

 

would hooker even go in the first in a re draft?

 

This PFF redraft from February puts him at pick #23

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-redrafting-the-first-round-of-the-2017-nfl-draft

 

This one from just before the 2019 puts him in the same spot as we drafted him.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/redrafting-the-2017-nfl-draft

 

as does this one

 

https://www.radio.com/sports/nfl/gallery/mock-2017-nfl-re-draft-patrick-mahomes-goes-no-1-to-browns#indianapolis-colts--s-malik-hooker-ck5u1x29p00f93h62e6dxuw9e

 

I maintain that our draft class from 2017 was average at worst and I would trend to say above average.  Hooker, Mack, and Walker all count as starters.  Hooker is a good but not elite starter, Walker and Mack are solid starters.  Stewart is a rotational player on the DL

 

Most teams would be happy with a draft class that nets them 3 starters and a rotational player.  

 

I think your expectations are simply too high.  The draft class we saw from 2018 was not just good, not just great, it was great on a historic level.  The last time that one team drafted 2 guys who became all pros their rookie year it was 1965 and the all pros where Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus.  A draft that good essentially happens to one team once every 50 years.

 

And even that isn't a fair comparison because the Bears got both of those guys higher in the draft than the Colts got Nelson.  Bears had the number 3 and 4 overall picks that year.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

hooker wasnt a terrible pick he wasnt a great one either imo.  the next two picks were bad, mack was good the others just guys.  doubt you will find a non homer that disagrees 

 

that is an average class to me

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/05/2017-nfl-draft-grades-rankings-analysis-chicago-bears-mitchell-trubisky-trade

 

18th as a whole here

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

hooker wasnt a terrible pick he wasnt a great one either imo.  the next two picks were bad, mack was good the others just guys.  doubt you will find a non homer that disagrees 

 

that is an average class to me

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/05/2017-nfl-draft-grades-rankings-analysis-chicago-bears-mitchell-trubisky-trade

 

18th as a whole here

 

 

You realize that ranking was made up before any of those guys ever took a professional snap right?

 

I mean there is a clue right there in the article where it says that they considered Kizer the #1 QB in that class.  You know that guy who has 11 TD's and 24 Int's on his career. 

 

Find me a ranking from 2 or 3 years later. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pro Bowl voting is just slightly more relevant than the Pro Bowl itself. 

 

All Pro? Completely different qualifier. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Valpo2004 said:

Find me a ranking from 2 or 3 years later. 

i asked you first lol

 

you really think anyone will rank this class high?  walker has played a lot and is well liked in the locker room.  pff rates him below average though, i cant say he stands out much from my eye test.  stewart has been nothing special either man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i asked you first lol

 

you really think anyone will rank this class high?  walker has played a lot and is well liked in the locker room.  pff rates him below average though, i cant say he stands out much from my eye test.  stewart has been nothing special either man

 

It's not necessarily that they are special but they fill slots with competent play.  Not every starter is going to be a pro-bowler.  Sometimes you just need a guy who doesn't screw up too much. 

 

I couldn't find one, but I consider one done right after the draft to be essentially meaningless.

 

You just said that Hooker wouldn't go in the first round in a re-draft but I found 3 different re-drafts after Hooker had spent more than 2 years in the league that had him in the first.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Valpo2004 said:

You just said that Hooker wouldn't go in the first round in a re-draft but I found 3 different re-drafts after Hooker had spent more than 2 years in the league that had him in the first.  

 

i did not say that if you reread the post.  there is no one answer to the rhetorical question, i thought it was fair to wonder though 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i asked you first lol

 

you really think anyone will rank this class high?  walker has played a lot and is well liked in the locker room.  pff rates him below average though, i cant say he stands out much from my eye test.  stewart has been nothing special either man

I don’t think it will be ranked high, but we picked 15th that year.

 

Hooker, Mack, Stewart, Walker.   That’s four starters.   In broad, general terms, a class is thought to be decent if it produces three starters.   We have four.

 

The other four...   Wilson is a clear disappointment, but he was not over drafted.    Basham was picked about where he was expected and us with the Jets.    Banner was picked at the bottom of the fourth round and is on Pittsburgh's roster.    Hairston was with the Jets, not sure who he’s with now?

 

Ballards 18 and 19 classes should remove most doubts.   Yet there are still those who doubt him.... 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t think it will be ranked high, but we picked 15th that year.

 

Hooker, Mack, Stewart, Walker.   That’s four starters.   In broad, general terms, a class is thought to be decent if it produces three starters.   We have four.

 

The other four...   Wilson is a clear disappointment, but he was not over drafted.    Basham was picked about where he was expected and us with the Jets.    Banner was picked at the bottom of the fourth round and is on Pittsburgh's roster.    Hairston was with the Jets, not sure who he’s with now?

 

Ballards 18 and 19 classes should remove most doubts.   Yet there are still those who doubt him.... 

Ballard didn't have most of his current scouts in 2017. A lot of them were Grigson's, which makes it all the more impressive he did what he did in that class. Probably a top 16 class (or top half class) honestly, combined with the best class in 2018 and a top 10 class in 2019 without a 1st round pick says he's an elite drafter.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

Ok...    two issues with this link...

 

One, it’s done the season after the draft.   You typically don’t get an accurate grade until after three years.  So there should be a more accurate  grade on it now — it’s been three years.

 

Two, it’s written by Mike Wells.   He’s not an analyst, he’s a reporter.  His evaluation shouldn’t carry too much weight. 
 

I appreciate you we’re looking for a link, I get it.   I’m just saying....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Ok...    two issues with this link...

 

One, it’s done the season after the draft.   You typically don’t get an accurate grade until after three years.  So there should be a more accurate  grade on it now — it’s been three years.

 

Two, it’s written by Mike Wells.   He’s not an analyst, he’s a reporter.  His evaluation shouldn’t carry too much weight. 
 

I appreciate you we’re looking for a link, I get it.   I’m just saying....

 

Are you saying that ESPN were premature in giving Chicago a higher grade than us for drafting Mitch Trubisky?

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Ok...    two issues with this link...

 

One, it’s done the season after the draft.   You typically don’t get an accurate grade until after three years.  So there should be a more accurate  grade on it now — it’s been three years.

 

Two, it’s written by Mike Wells.   He’s not an analyst, he’s a reporter.  His evaluation shouldn’t carry too much weight. 
 

I appreciate you we’re looking for a link, I get it.   I’m just saying....

it wasnt a great link tbh, i could not find many that ranked the whole class.  i dont think hooker was a bad pick in hindsight i said it was average

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Looks like they are now undergoing a review of the Redskins name.  A change seems likely due to the pressure from Fedex, NFL and public at large. They were the Boston Braves before they came to D.C.  So maybe just call them the Washington Braves or Washington Warriors if “Braves” is still deemed to be too insensitive.  FWIW, the Cleveland Indians are also considering a name change.  
    • I wouldn’t bet too much.   Our regular season starts in September, by that time MLB will have - in theory - been playing for about 5 weeks.   Roughly the same as basketball.   If those two leagues are forced to shutdown, the NFL won’t wait for trouble to happen.  The NFL will quickly join them and shutdown as well.     We will all know more in August. 
    • NE got a bargain in Cam, more so than what we have in JB, something is wrong with this picture.  "1" Mil compare to 20 mil.  Yikes.
    • the virus could be around for many years, maybe forever.  they are going to figure out how to play around it and start the season.  if it gets bad they will shut it down but there will be games played, id bet on that   
    • Asymptomatic people are leading the spread. This disease doesn’t care what the NFL expects. If players and fans are put in close proximity, there will be spread. A player can test negative in the morning and positive in the evening. The WHO made that statement last month but they also clarified that statement. No one can even red say for sure what asymptomatic really means. You can also be presymptomatic and spread it as well. 
  • Members

×
×
  • Create New...