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[Pelissero] Colts signing Sheldon Day

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Maybe not but one thing for sure.  He is a difference maker that you have to account for on every play.  Otherwise Ballard wouldn't be in the hunt to sign him and pay him a large contract.

Who says Ballard is in the hunt to sign him?

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7 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Day is a great interior Dlinemen. I like this signing alot.

 

Apparently you didn't watch him much. He was cut from Jacksonville for a reason, and they needed interior DL badly. He was a "spell guy" in San Fran, not a guy you can rely on play after play, but a guy that can spell the starters for a few plays. I would have rather kept Hunt..

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29 minutes ago, ColtJax said:

 

Apparently you didn't watch him much. He was cut from Jacksonville for a reason, and they needed interior DL badly. He was a "spell guy" in San Fran, not a guy you can rely on play after play, but a guy that can spell the starters for a few plays. I would have rather kept Hunt..

I do believe that Days production in the NFL has been underwhelming when you consider the draft hype he was receiving. But Hunt just disappeared last year. I think bringing in Day is the right move. Back home in front of his home town team but be just what he needs. If it doesn’t work out then oh well it’s just one year and it’s not like Hunt gave much last year anyway. 
 

Now with that said..there are a lot of ND fans hyping this guy up on social media and I really question whether they’ve seen this guy at all since it’s his at ND. My guess is no. 

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50 minutes ago, ColtJax said:

 

Apparently you didn't watch him much. He was cut from Jacksonville for a reason, and they needed interior DL badly. He was a "spell guy" in San Fran, not a guy you can rely on play after play, but a guy that can spell the starters for a few plays. I would have rather kept Hunt..

 Hunt was awful. Ballard's evaluation > yours.

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3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Maybe not but one thing for sure.  He is a difference maker that you have to account for on every play.  Otherwise Ballard wouldn't be in the hunt to sign him and pay him a large contract.

 

The NFL has spoken loudly with deafening silence-

 

Clowney is not worth 20 million /yr, even in an over-payment FA setting.

 

I heard on NFL radio this morning that reports from a GM or 2 has said his worth is closer to 10-12 million.  Which means to me, a team that eventually gets desperate will pay in the area of 15-17 somewhere down the road.

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10 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

I'm not sure he is a bust but definitely not the player they thought he would be coming out college obviously. He had one amazing play in college and everyone went crazy but the truth of the matter is that he never was that good. 

 

Yup.

Let's see... Clowney (I'll sign... 20 million per year.)

 

Ballard-

 

giphy.gif

 

I like the Day addition.

 

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So we cut a NT (Hunt) and trade for a 3T (Buckner).  Seems like we have a hole at N and and abundance of 3s (Buckner, Autry, Lewis, & sometimes Sheard?).  

 

Could Raekwon Davis or Devon Hamilton, or Leki Fotu could be on the way?  And with Buckner's backup being the three guys above, I'm thinking another 3T is needed.

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25 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

 

1agnf.jpg

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He probably needs someone to motivate him with the right DC, hopefully Flus can do this. Need another one like him but bigger. 

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37 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I'm not impressed by this. 

 

The O-Lineman (most O-Linemen) would not think that a defender would take himself out of the play just to get a shot in. 

 

If he did this as a Colt during a game and ended up on the floor, would you be impressed, while the RB runs right past him? Also, he had a 5-yard running start.

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25 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I'm not impressed by this. 

 

The O-Lineman (most O-Linemen) would not think that a defender would take himself out of the play just to get a shot in. 

 

If he did this as a Colt during a game and ended up on the floor, would you be impressed, while the RB runs right past him? Also, he had a 5-yard running start.

 

So you could do it?

 

I get it, but it takes exceptional strength to throw/knock a 300+ lb man on his back

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17 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

 

So you could do it?

 

I get it, but it takes exceptional strength to throw/knock a 300+ lb man on his back

Could I do it? No way!  I'm 5'7" and weigh 150. I could get a 10-yard head start and it still wouldn't make a difference. :)

 

But I do think that if you give just about any 290lb defensive lineman a 5-yard head start and told that person to run as fast as they could, and lunge at the O-lineman without fear of falling to the floor, they too could do it too. It's really not too impressive. It comes off as more of a cheap shot.

 

Watching J.J. Watt manhandle O-Lineman head-to-head, without a 5-yard head start is impressive. This...not so much.

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2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

The NFL has spoken loudly with deafening silence-

 

Clowney is not worth 20 million /yr, even in an over-payment FA setting.

 

I heard on NFL radio this morning that reports from a GM or 2 has said his worth is closer to 10-12 million.  Which means to me, a team that eventually gets desperate will pay in the area of 15-17 somewhere down the road.

 

I mean...he reportedly got a $17M/year offer from MIA at the beginning of FA...so not all silence. And there are a handful of teams interested. He probably isn't worth $20M...but $10-12M is sort of laughable.

 

I actually think the overpaying at the higher end of FA isn't near what it was last year...definitely more prevalent in the second and third tier though.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Flash7 said:

Could I do it? No way!  I'm 5'7" and weigh 150. I could get a 10-yard head start and it still wouldn't make a difference. :)

 

But I do think that if you give just about any 290lb defensive lineman a 5-yard head start and told that person to run as fast as they could, and lunge at the O-lineman without fear of falling to the floor, they too could do it too. It's really not too impressive. It comes off as more of a cheap shot.

 

Watching J.J. Watt manhandle O-Lineman head-to-head, without a 5-yard head start is impressive. This...not so much.

 

I have to agree. Speaking of impressive...

 

 

Clowney is like 40 lbs lighter than Day. He tosses a 330 lb All Pro G out of the way...keeps his balance and shoots up the gap for the sack.

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2 hours ago, Flash7 said:

I'm not impressed by this. 

 

The O-Lineman (most O-Linemen) would not think that a defender would take himself out of the play just to get a shot in. 

 

If he did this as a Colt during a game and ended up on the floor, would you be impressed, while the RB runs right past him? Also, he had a 5-yard running start.

That is the exact purpose of most DL

 

   

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11 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

That is the exact purpose of most DL

 

   

Sorry, but I've never seen an NFL D-lineman line up 5-yards out, get a running start and lunge at the O-lineman, landing on the floor and taking themselves out of the play.

 

If that is the purpose of most DL, then they are doing it wrong in the NFL.

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Just now, Flash7 said:

Sorry, but I've never seen an NFL D-lineman line up 5-yards out, get a running start and lunge at the O-lineman, landing on the floor and taking themselves out of the play.

 

If that is the purpose of most DL, then they are doing it wrong in the NFL.

Have you ever been to a practice because that was a one one drill run at every level of the sport

    As a former OL and OL coach I have gone through thousands of them 

        Had my career end in one

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

So we cut a NT (Hunt) and trade for a 3T (Buckner).  Seems like we have a hole at N and and abundance of 3s (Buckner, Autry, Lewis, & sometimes Sheard?).  

 

Could Raekwon Davis or Devon Hamilton, or Leki Fotu could be on the way?  And with Buckner's backup being the three guys above, I'm thinking another 3T is needed.

I'm confused.... We cut Hunt and picked up Day in the 1T space. We added Buckner at 3T, and haven't resigned Sheard DE. If anything we're light a standard down DE, not 1T/NT.

 

Right now we're looking at

 

Houston/Banogu

Stewart/Day

Buckner/Autry/Lewis

Turay/Muhammad/Green?

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14 hours ago, rock8591 said:

Clowney - riding on coattails of being #1 pick.

 

NEVER had 10 or more sacks a year, as a edge defender.

If that doesn’t scream bust, I don’t know what does!

 

7 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Maybe not but one thing for sure.  He is a difference maker that you have to account for on every play.  Otherwise Ballard wouldn't be in the hunt to sign him and pay him a large contract.

The only thing I have read is where Stampede Blue said the Colts should go after Clowney. No where else have I read that Ballard has even put a feeler out. 

There is a 4 page thread about Clowney and no one even knows if Ballard has done anything aimed at Clowney.  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Have you ever been to a practice because that was a one one drill run at every level of the sport

    As a former OL and OL coach I have gone through thousands of them 

        Had my career end in one

Yup, been to practices. I too, also coached football (at the high school level). I was the WR and DB coach, but have experience with the drills.

 

During these drills, we taught the D-Lineman to use their skills (focus on converting speed to strength, bend, spin move, hand usage, etc). Still not impressed with lunging at an O-Lineman. Maybe that's just me. I don't see it translating to real game situations.

 

Respectfully, during NFL games, I've never seen this 'technique' used by Sheldon, and thus, not impressed.

 

It's like kicking someone in the head and knocking them out during a boxing sparring session. The other boxer is not expecting it and not ready to guard themselves against it. Sure it may look impressive but it will not translate in a real boxing match.

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44 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'm confused.... We cut Hunt and picked up Day in the 1T space. We added Buckner at 3T, and haven't resigned Sheard DE. If anything we're light a standard down DE, not 1T/NT.

 

Right now we're looking at

 

Houston/Banogu

Stewart/Day

Buckner/Autry/Lewis

Turay/Muhammad/Green?

And Jugs Jegede at DE

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4 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

He didn't just put him on his back, he flung him. That is some power, boy. No, that does not mean he'll do that in the NFL, but his extension to shed? Impressive.

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17 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

He didn't just put him on his back, he flung him. That is some power, boy. No, that does not mean he'll do that in the NFL, but his extension to shed? Impressive.

 

  But he has 4 years in the league with almost no production.
  Sort of a weak 2nd stringer. His spot on the roster isn't secure.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I'm confused.... We cut Hunt and picked up Day in the 1T space. We added Buckner at 3T, and haven't resigned Sheard DE. If anything we're light a standard down DE, not 1T/NT.

 

Right now we're looking at

 

Houston/Banogu

Stewart/Day

Buckner/Autry/Lewis

Turay/Muhammad/Green?

I thought the comments suggested Day would struggle to make the roster, so his signing would not prevent us from drafting an upgrade to grover at 1.  And if Grover is fine for limited reps there as Buckner slides over on pass situation, then we have an over-the-hill Autry (IMO) and an enigma in Lewis to play next to Buckner.  Not good. .  Those two add up to basically nobody. 

 

So we either need another light 3T to play along side Buckner in NASCAR package or another three down player who can play 1T and get pass rush push if Buckner stays at 3T all three downs.  

 

IOW, I have been saying that we need 2 new DTs since mid season and Buckner is 1, but it doesn't look like Day is the 2nd....just insurance.

 

I'm thinking of Sheard's value as when he played well inside and his EDGE reps getting taken as Turay and Ben develop, so if he remains unsigned, we are down another inside rusher from past years.   We only have Lewis and Autry when Buckner slides over.  

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14 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

If we were going to be relying on a guy that allowed >95 passer rating, 2/3 of balls thrown his way to be completed and missed 14% of his tackles as a starter, we're probably better off filling that hole.  It's a minor one, at best.

Wonder of injuries  had a play in that. I like rock and moore. Tell has potential.  Wilson  is a disappointment  as is tyquan Lewis 

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I thought the story said he won a starting job next to Buckner late in the season. If he can start for the Niners' defensive line he should be able to alternate at tackle for us.

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17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I thought the comments suggested Day would struggle to make the roster, so his signing would not prevent us from drafting an upgrade to grover at 1.  And if Grover is fine for limited reps there as Buckner slides over on pass situation, then we have an over-the-hill Autry (IMO) and an enigma in Lewis to play next to Buckner.  Not good. .  Those two add up to basically nobody. 

 

So we either need another light 3T to play along side Buckner in NASCAR package or another three down player who can play 1T and get pass rush push if Buckner stays at 3T all three downs.  

 

IOW, I have been saying that we need 2 new DTs since mid season and Buckner is 1, but it doesn't look like Day is the 2nd....just insurance.

 

I'm thinking of Sheard's value as when he played well inside and his EDGE reps getting taken as Turay and Ben develop, so if he remains unsigned, we are down another inside rusher from past years.   We only have Lewis and Autry when Buckner slides over.  

IMO, we'll see

 

Obvious Running Downs

Muhammad (likely working Turay in more an more)

Stewart or Day

Buckner

Houston

 

Tweener Downs

Muhammad or Turay

Day 

Buckner

Houston

 

Obvious Passing Downs

Turay

Buckner

Autry

Houston (or Banogu if he develops)

 

If we end up resigning Sheard, replace Muhammad with him.

Anyway, I think we more than fine at DT/UT. Autry will be fine as a one down package 3T if Buckner slides. Aside from resting Buckner once in while, he's going to play a ton like Houston.

 

If anything, I'm concerned with DE. I know everyone is high on Turay, and his PFF grade was good, but it was in very limited downs, and his stats came primarily from the 29th ranked OL (LAC) and KC (who were missing their starting G and T)... Hoping they bring Sheard back.

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I agree we need a front-line end to finish out the line and give Turay another year to develop.

I question whether they will keep Autry for limited action with Buckner and Lewis playing that spot.

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34 minutes ago, Orioles22 said:

I agree we need a front-line end to finish out the line and give Turay another year to develop.

I question whether they will keep Autry for limited action with Buckner and Lewis playing that spot.

I thought they would have dumped Autry or Lewis when they picked up Buckner. Autry probably provides greater flexibility (over Lewis). I know he's 29 but he's only a few years removed from a pretty good season. He's making 6M vs Lewis at 1M though.. The more I think about it, the more I think they keep both now.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

IMO, we'll see

 

Obvious Running Downs

Muhammad (likely working Turay in more an more)

Stewart or Day

Buckner

Houston

 

Tweener Downs

Muhammad or Turay

Day 

Buckner

Houston

 

Obvious Passing Downs

Turay

Buckner

Autry

Houston (or Banogu if he develops)

 

If we end up resigning Sheard, replace Muhammad with him.

Anyway, I think we more than fine at DT/UT. Autry will be fine as a one down package 3T if Buckner slides. Aside from resting Buckner once in while, he's going to play a ton like Houston.

 

If anything, I'm concerned with DE. I know everyone is high on Turay, and his PFF grade was good, but it was in very limited downs, and his stats came primarily from the 29th ranked OL (LAC) and KC (who were missing their starting G and T)... Hoping they bring Sheard back.

With all of those combinations, I think we need to give Buckner more help from a DT of higher quality than Day.

 

Thank you for pointing out Turay's competition.  I knew that his good performances were against bad LTs, but I had no idea they were that bad.  By contrast, the two games that he played against good LTs he was invisible.

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11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

With all of those combinations, I think we need to give Buckner more help from a DT of higher quality than Day.

 

Thank you for pointing out Turay's competition.  I knew that his good performances were against bad LTs, but I had no idea they were that bad.  By contrast, the two games that he played against good LTs he was invisible.

Two of our front 4 are Tier 1 guys. You simply can't do much more/better by pure spending. We now have the 3rd most expensive DL in the league at around 48M. The Chiefs are #1 at 50M. Now you have to draft, and/or develop the guys you've already drafted. 

 

It's why I've always preached you have to rotate your high draft picks focused on the high dollar positions like 3T, DE, QB, LT, etc., and not a big fan of trading back all the time or taking shots later in the draft for certain positions. 1T is also much less important than DE or 3T, and devalued as such. Stewart and Day are just fine. And being sandwiched by Buckner and Houston will mask deficiency and likely raise their level of play.

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13 hours ago, boo2202 said:

 

 

Maybe Desir would’ve been better with this great Dline we’re putting together. Supposedly that’s everyone excuse for hooker, rock, etc. Dline= more pressure, which means less coverage time for dbs. Either way we’re too young at the position now and have little depth. Why create another depth issue??? 

 

Maybe they were more concerned with the fact that Desir's tackling was abysmal (14% miss rate, that's way too high in the NFL especially in the D we run).  That has little to do with the DL play.. coverage/completion percent/etc. rely on DL often because a pressured QB releases the ball faster (sometimes less accurately) and the DBs don't have to cover for as long.... missing 1 out of every 7 tackles is on the DB, though.  Injuries or not, that's a poor rate.

 

Xavier Rhodes had a very poor year last year, but if he can return to a shell of his former self, he should be an upgrade, or at worst, provide depth similar to Desir.

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3 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

I have to agree. Speaking of impressive...

 

 

Clowney is like 40 lbs lighter than Day. He tosses a 330 lb All Pro G out of the way...keeps his balance and shoots up the gap for the sack.

The "blind squirrel" effect.

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21 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Two of our front 4 are Tier 1 guys. You simply can't do much more/better by pure spending. We now have the 3rd most expensive DL in the league at around 48M. The Chiefs are #1 at 50M. Now you have to draft, and/or develop the guys you've already drafted. 

 

It's why I've always preached you have to rotate your high draft picks focused on the high dollar positions like 3T, DE, QB, LT, etc., and not a big fan of trading back all the time or taking shots later in the draft for certain positions. 1T is also much less important than DE or 3T, and devalued as such. Stewart and Day are just fine. And being sandwiched by Buckner and Houston will mask deficiency and likely raise their level of play.

I get it, and understand rotating expensive positions (which is why I don't like drafting Cs, Gs, and FSs when you have mid/high picks).

 

Buckner just signed so he is going to skew the numbers.  Autry, Houston, and Sheard (if he counts) are all over paid as a group and elevating our total DL compensatiion so I'd say that two of them need to go.  Replace with another young lighter 3T (supposed to be Lewis but that doesn't look well)  Even though Buckner is new, we need another 22 year old.

 

Basically, Lewis needs to step up. 

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25 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I get it, and understand rotating expensive positions (which is why I don't like drafting Cs, Gs, and FSs when you have mid/high picks).

 

Buckner just signed so he is going to skew the numbers.  Autry, Houston, and Sheard (if he counts) are all over paid as a group and elevating our total DL compensatiion so I'd say that two of them need to go.  Replace with another young lighter 3T (supposed to be Lewis but that doesn't look well)  Even though Buckner is new, we need another 22 year old.

 

Basically, Lewis needs to step up. 

Houston isn't overpaid. Autry, yes. Sheard isn't counted as he's off the roster. Buckner's contract is what it is, but it's not skewing things. It's simply big pay for big play.

 

Not pinning my hopes on Lewis. He was sub 50 PFF last year. Not saying he won't develop or get better, I just don't see Tier 1 traits. He's fine at 1M though. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Houston isn't overpaid. Autry, yes. Sheard isn't counted as he's off the roster. Buckner's contract is what it is, but it's not skewing things. It's simply big pay for big play.

 

Not pinning my hopes on Lewis. He was sub 50 PFF last year. Not saying he won't develop or get better, I just don't see Tier 1 traits. He's fine at 1M though. 

 

 

I agree.  You mentioned as a whole the dline unit is well paid.  Just saying that usually the newest contracts in the NFL are the most expensive, so Buckner raises that group's compensation by that factor.  And if Houston is adequately paid, which I agree, that means that there are some that aren't earning their comp.  I'd put Autry in that camp as well as Lewis...our other 3Ts...  Even though Lewis is not paid highly, he's been overpaid given what he has contributed.  Again, I just see this as a reason why we need to add another quality DT either at 3T or active 1T. 

 

I would not consider it a waste of capital vs need if pick #34 was another DT. It would also allow Buckner to thrive.

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