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2 hours ago, Narcosys said:

I was talking about the medical system choosing to deny care based on cost/benefit analysis, rather than just taking care of the person, essentially a death panel. That has and is happening. That was my point from all of that. It did kind of grow into more information as to why this happens, and the issues with NHS.

 

for my anecdotal, they went right after he hurt his arm. They refused to do an xray as they didn't think it warranted one. A week later the kid was still hurting and bruising, and finally they took one in the ED and showed that there was a break, exactly like the parents were saying. 

 

Healthcare service planning is a lot  more complicated than that, and in no way do people ever sit in rooms and go we will let X people die because we can't afford this. Examples you cited were more about poor clinical practice (L'pool) and the ethical debate about providing a treatment where the clinicians believe the quality of life as a consequence to not be justifiable. It is without doubt a charged and difficult subject. I spent 6 months of my life doing a review into End of Life Care, it was one of most upsetting, yet rewarding, pieces of work I've ever done. Quite often, the reverse of what you outlined happens, patients haven't made their wishes clear while compos mentis, lose capacity, and end up being kept alive (e.g. via feeding tubes), despite it providing zero quality of life. It's societal taboo to talk about death, but it's important to think about these things. 

 

Besides the biggest barrier right now isn't money oddly enough. Give me infinite money today and I still couldn't "fix" the healthcare system overnight. Increasing amounts of long term conditions caused by lifestyle choices (but not of high enough mortality to kill you young), an ever ageing demographic and an absolutely devoid workforce pool. It's challenging. 

 

The main point was given the current baseline of the system, as imperfect as it is now, the impact of Covid is that people will die who would have lived in less pressured times. The more people play down the current measures, the more chance of a bigger peak, the more pressure on a service, the more people die. It's not the acuity that scares people so much, just the unprecedented demand this could create.  When you get Chief Execs of Trusts admitting to being (please excuse my language here) "* Petrified", it's eye opening. Even during the worst winters it's never like this. 

 

That's without factoring in the long term impact on mortality. For example, if introducing a restriction on movement means you have to stop screening programmes for other diseases chances are we will see an uptick in mortality down the line. 

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As much as I like the NFL and how it takes us away mentally from everyday problems this virus has to be contained at any cost. When you realize just how many people are effected with their jobs a

Meanwhile on Wall Street....    

Chances are you don’t know what you’re talking about. It is most not certainly going to be “done” in a month. 

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11 hours ago, HOZER said:

 People deal with things in their own way, be it optimism, vigilance, fear, etc.....what is important is that we all stick together and support each other in the best way that we can. This back and forth solves nothing and just drives everyone apart, which is the last thing we need right now. Agree to disagree. 
 

My mom is 74 yrs old and teaches at a US base. She still had to report to work, even though the students were told to stay home. I am not thrilled about their decision with her being high risk due to age and her having previous heart issues, and am hoping they change their minds soon. 

 

I'm angered by the amount of people still being pressured to work. Surely she is in a risk category and they are bordering on negligence by making her go to work?! Not sure of the legalities.

 

There is a huge row here about construction sites, so far they are being kept open and workers told to go to site or lose your job.  

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11 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I never claimed it was all going to disappear in two weeks. I am not stupid. What I did say we will find a way to get balance back so we don’t have to be shut down long. Our economy can’t sustain this long. If it’s out to long jobs won’t come back when it’s over.  

 

On 3/19/2020 at 4:48 PM, Chloe6124 said:

Come on. I suggest those that are so negative to shut the tv off and quit listening to the media who is panicking everyone. Chances are this does out in a month or so. 

 

True, you claimed it would be done in a month.... 

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7 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I'm angered by the amount of people still being pressured to work. Surely she is in a risk category and they are bordering on negligence by making her go to work?! Not sure of the legalities.

 

There is a huge row here about construction sites, so far they are being kept open and workers told to go to site or lose your job.  

 

I like how the PM said shut everything down, and then the memo that came out basically left most stuff open, including open air markets that sell groceries. Saturday downtown is still just as packed as it has been. 

 

As far as the US base stuff goes. it's dependent on the commands, but the thought was that there would be less people around that you could maintain the social distance by just staying in your classroom. Bases here in the UK are allowing teachers to telework, at least the few around me.

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9 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

 

I like how the PM said shut everything down, and then the memo that came out basically left most stuff open, including open air markets that sell groceries. Saturday downtown is still just as packed as it has been. 

 

As far as the US base stuff goes. it's dependent on the commands, but the thought was that there would be less people around that you could maintain the social distance by just staying in your classroom. Bases here in the UK are allowing teachers to telework, at least the few around me.

 

That's the catch 22, you need to have food shops open still as we're not geared up like a China to do state delivery of food... but then people haven't been sensible. It's a very weird feeling when you do go out. 


For example, yesterday, went on my allowed one run a day. Traffic quiet, but saw lots of pedestrians, with every encounter being a weirdly polite establishment of separation. Just felt so odd as it was a lovely spring evening yet the world is kinda going to madness. 

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11 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

That's the catch 22, you need to have food shops open still as we're not geared up like a China to do state delivery of food... but then people haven't been sensible. It's a very weird feeling when you do go out. 


For example, yesterday, went on my allowed one run a day. Traffic quiet, but saw lots of pedestrians, with every encounter being a weirdly polite establishment of separation. Just felt so odd as it was a lovely spring evening yet the world is kinda going to madness. 

 

From what I saw, the memo allowed, most all food places to stay open if they wanted and many other department stores. There was very little that is actually forced to close down. Or I just read it wrong, more likely the latter. 

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2 hours ago, Nadine said:

I'm sorry for your postponed family gatherings.  That hurts.  All the precious gatherings that won't happen are hard on people

 

Thanks. It is ok. We want everyone to be safe. Gatherings can take place at any time after we get over this. I am just pleased that my mother is taking this well and is adjusting. 

 

2 hours ago, Nadine said:

My sister is telling her she needs to move back home until this is over.  I think this is a good reality check for  young people like this.

 

I agree with your sister. Your niece should be relieved to know that she has the option of going back home. 

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5 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

 

From what I saw, the memo allowed, most all food places to stay open if they wanted and many other department stores. There was very little that is actually forced to close down. Or I just read it wrong, more likely the latter. 

 

It should just be "essential" shops. Food shops being very much essential, but the list also includes:

 

Pharmacies

Petrol stations

Newsagents

Bicycle shops

Home and hardware stores

Laundrettes and dry cleaners

Garages 

Pet shops (??!) 

Post Offices

Banks

 

But the you get this happen...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52011915

 

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19 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

It should just be "essential" shops. Food shops being very much essential, but the list also includes:

 

Pharmacies

Petrol stations

Newsagents

Bicycle shops

Home and hardware stores

Laundrettes and dry cleaners

Garages 

Pet shops (??!) 

Post Offices

Banks

 

But the you get this happen...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52011915

 

That is what the Indiana stay at home ruling does

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16 hours ago, aaron11 said:

the stock market wont survive much more of this, the president will take risks to get it going.  today was good but they will have to do more

 

SCC has pointed this out, it's kind of a no win war.

 

The U.S. economy is complex, with lots of variables. However, IMO, it can be somewhat simplified down to be driven by 2 things. Consumer trust, available credit.

 

Consumer confidence is based largely upon households consumption and saving ability, which is determined by answers given regarding their expected financial situation, their sentiment about the general economic situation, employment/unemployment, and capability of savings.  What direction is that likely heading right now?

 

Credit, and purchasing power.  Credit growth these days drives economic growth. After the housing crisis, credit dried up.  Economies were crippled. If credit remains at least fairly available, there may be roads leading out of the Corona virus mess to a quicker economic recovery.  I hope.

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The Indiana memo also allows construction and trade to still go on also. My neighbor is starting to build their house and they have been over there all week. The Indiana memo also says if your employer considers you essential you can work. So it kind of let’s the employer decide. I do think the gov here struck a good balance   Basically stuff like hair salons and nail salons are not essential. I do worry about what the other states have done and I think they have gone to far.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Narcosys said:

I was talking about the medical system choosing to deny care based on cost/benefit analysis, rather than just taking care of the person, essentially a death panel. That has and is happening. That was my point from all of that. It did kind of grow into more information as to why this happens, and the issues with NHS.

 

for my anecdotal, they went right after he hurt his arm. They refused to do an xray as they didn't think it warranted one. A week later the kid was still hurting and bruising, and finally they took one in the ED and showed that there was a break, exactly like the parents were saying. 

It’s happening in Italy right now. This is why Gov healthcare is bad.

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24 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s happening in Italy right now. This is why Gov healthcare is bad.

 

Italy's issue was the aging population and how the Covid-19 started there, explaining the high death rate.

 

For me, a single payer or socialist healthcare system won't work in the US, easier to let insurance companies compete across state lines to lower premiums; they do have to regulate premiums and drug prices though. It takes a huge revamp of the system and the US is just too large. It also takes trust in the establishment for people to buy in, and the country being polarized, they are not going to hand over more taxes trusting that the government will do what is right for their family, I wouldn't. It will become an extension of the failing social security system, IMO, bound to eventually fail.

 

I have a high school friend in Canada, his wife had to wait for being operated on a painful cyst for 5 weeks several years ago, he just flew to India, got the surgery done at a private hospital and was back in a couple of weeks.

 

I like my short wait times and the government not coming between my doctor and me. 

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14 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s happening in Italy right now. This is why Gov healthcare is bad.


Oh dear lord...  

 

What’s happening in Italy isn’t because it’s a government healthcare systems, it’s the same as any system overloaded with demand. If you have a similar situation in the US, medical services aren’t going to magically cope because you have private health insurance. 
 

As for the statement taken in isolation, there is no compelling evidence to suggest state funded health systems provide worse care. Far from it. 

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16 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s happening in Italy right now. This is why Gov healthcare is bad.

This may sound rude but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. What is happening in Italy now is a tragedy, but is not because they have a public health system. A world class health system at that. What is happening in Italy is because they are completely overwhelmed by the huge numbers of cases. Huge numbers they have because they did not take it seriously enough and act fast enough with the right measures. If the US is to follow the path they you're advocating just wait and see what happens in your health care sector, as it can't really he called a system. It'll be overwhelmed just like Italy and hundreds of thousands will die and doctors will have to choose who to save.  

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9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

That is why a single payer or socialist healthcare system won't work in the US, easier to let insurance companies compete across state lines to lower premiums; they do have to regulate premiums and drug prices though. It takes a huge revamp of the system and the US is just too large. It also takes trust in the establishment for people to buy in, and the country being polarized, they are not going to hand over more taxes trusting that the government will do what is right for their family, I wouldn't. It will become an extension of the failing social security system, IMO, bound to eventually fail.

 

I have a high school friend in Canada, his wife had to wait for being operated on a painful cyst for 5 weeks, he just flew to India, got the surgery done at a private hospital and was back in a couple of weeks.

 

I like my short wait times and the government not coming between my doctor and me. 

 

I would agree it would be hard to change the system in the US, it's not so much the organisational changes, but equally the societal ones. 

 

There are however flaws in both approaches. If there was a perfect model, it would be adopted worldwide. 

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14 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

The economy can’t be shut down for months.  We will find the balance like isolating the hot spots. If you can’t understand what it would mean for the  economy to be on hold for months I don’t know what to say. Like I said you seem like a very negative person.  Be vigilant protect your self. That’s all we can do. Sending panic on something we have no clue what will  happen does nobody any good. Prepare for the worst and do our part and have trust and hope it doesn’t get there.  We have been through things like this before and we survived and our country was still strong.

Yes.  People just want to be obtuse, especially when it validates a political point of view.

 

If the economy collapses, then who will pay for emergency services for heart attacks and strokes?  Ongoing cancer patients?  Who pays to repair ambulances?  How do we keep rural people in Minnesota from freezing to death next winter?  North Dakotans won't produce oil if the price is too low.  Frankly, some would like to reorganize the economic system after it collapses.

 

NYC is a filthy crowded place.  Its gotten worse each decade.  Those are the circumstances there.  Governor's have had plenty of ability to stockpile ventilators for years, and build excess hospital capacity, if they had the foresight...and wanted to spend the money on that stuff.  They can simply shut down and tear up their filthy public transportation systems, never to build one again, and require people to telework or use their own cars.  Different circumstances require different actions for different parts of the country.  Can't have a one size fits all solution.

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1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I would agree it would be hard to change the system in the US, it's not so much the organisational changes, but equally the societal ones. 

 

There are however flaws in both approaches. If there was a perfect model, it would be adopted worldwide. 

 

Very true. Population and size does change a lot of factors, not to mention the societal buy in. Is it the Finland model or the Denmark model or the Venezuela model? People have to be able to acknowledge what works in one place may not work in another and just cannot dive into a concept that is new to a country. 

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1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

Very true. Population and size does change a lot of factors, not to mention the societal buy in. Is it the Finland model or the Denmark model or the Venezuela model? People have to be able to acknowledge what works in one place may not work in another and just cannot dive into a concept that is new to a country. 

 

The Scandinavian approach (high taxation, high quality of government service provision), is interesting, as it works well, in those countries. I'm not sure with higher/denser population  it scales. That's without considering some countries' populations would riot over the idea of being taxed that much. 

 

Believe me, one thing I've learnt, no matter how perfect a system/model you design, don't underestimate the ability of human nature to break it.

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3 hours ago, Nadine said:

 

As I've tried to state here before, it's a process to weigh effectiveness and safety. Cutting corners is often full of fools gold.

 

This is one reason why I might be interested in, but not really swayed by small, (especially non-blind, non-random) Phase 1 studies.  Pass a larger Phase  2 trial, you got my attention.

 

"The researchers concluded that additional studies using larger numbers of patients are needed to fully investigate the drug’s risks and benefits."

 

Agreed, and also the Z-Pak/Chloroquine cocktail, too.  I want the Risk/Reward evaluation from valid studies.

 

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8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  People just want to be obtuse, especially when it validates a political point of view.

 

If the economy collapses, then who will pay for emergency services for heart attacks and strokes?  Ongoing cancer patients?  Who pays to repair ambulances?  How do we keep rural people in Minnesota from freezing to death next winter?  North Dakotans won't produce oil if the price is too low.  Frankly, some would like to reorganize the economic system after it collapses.

 

NYC is a filthy crowded place.  Its gotten worse each decade.  Those are the circumstances there.  Governor's have had plenty of ability to stockpile ventilators for years, and build excess hospital capacity, if they had the foresight...and wanted to spend the money on that stuff.  They can simply shut down and tear up their filthy public transportation systems, never to build one again, and require people to telework or use their own cars.  Different circumstances require different actions for different parts of the country.  Can't have a one size fits all solution.

 

Yes, isolating clusters and increasing tests is the way to go, IMO.

 

I'd be fine with a national non-essential shutdown for a 2 weeks during which increased testing and isolation and planning can happen. Then, they can start opening non-essential workplaces, just not schools, bars, gyms and restaurants for another 4 weeks. Then, they can start opening schools, bars, gyms and restaurants if the curve has been flattened. That would put the timeline of the middle of May when everything goes back to open, only if the numbers show it. 

 

I do think that what applies to NY, California and Washington, may not apply to other states. Hence, the same metrics have to be evaluated by individual State governors to act differently if necessary, and rightfully so. 

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15 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

 

As for the statement taken in isolation, there is no compelling evidence to suggest state funded health systems provide worse care. Far from it. 

 

No, they are just more likely to deny care, or put severe restrictions on when certain procedures, be it life saving or cosmetic, can be done. Which is the case in the UK and NHS. Which pointed out, that even degenerative issues are not being dealt with in the early stages because they do not meet the requirements. They wait until the individual is in worse shape before they are allowed to qualify. By then the persons quality life has significantly diminished, or in the example I gave, renders them unable to work before they can qualify.

 

The customer of state run health systems is not the patient, its the government. That has, is, and will always be the case. Many, I wont say all because I haven't researched all, state run healthcare systems implement tight restrictions on when various surgeries or other procedures can or will be done. Long wait times for procedures are also an issue, scheduling for basic procedures can take months and even up to a year in some places. This is true of even the highly touted Norwegian healthcare system. 

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19 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

 

No, they are just more likely to deny care, or put severe restrictions on when certain procedures, be it life saving or cosmetic, can be done.

 

What happens when you don't have insurance in the US...

 

I disagree strongly with your interpretation of how the NHS works, it's just not true.

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28 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yes, isolating clusters and increasing tests is the way to go, IMO.

 

I'd be fine with a national non-essential shutdown for a 2 weeks during which increased testing and isolation and planning can happen. Then, they can start opening non-essential workplaces, just not schools, bars, gyms and restaurants for another 4 weeks. Then, they can start opening schools, bars, gyms and restaurants if the curve has been flattened. That would put the timeline of the middle of May when everything goes back to open, only if the numbers show it. 

 

I do think that what applies to NY, California and Washington, may not apply to other states. Hence, the same metrics have to be evaluated by individual State governors to act differently if necessary, and rightfully so. 

This is a tough situation.  Everybody came together initially, but the typical political fissures are starting to form.

 

History has show that when there is an oversupply of humans crammed into an undersupply of real estate, bad things can happen.  No leader, political system, or economic system can change that.

 

BTW.  It would be interesting to see the infection rate and how it correlates with cities that use public transportation systems extensively compared to those that don't.  Yuck!

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53 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yes, isolating clusters and increasing tests is the way to go, IMO.

 

I'd be fine with a national non-essential shutdown for a 2 weeks during which increased testing and isolation and planning can happen. Then, they can start opening non-essential workplaces, just not schools, bars, gyms and restaurants for another 4 weeks. Then, they can start opening schools, bars, gyms and restaurants if the curve has been flattened. That would put the timeline of the middle of May when everything goes back to open, only if the numbers show it. 

 

I do think that what applies to NY, California and Washington, may not apply to other states. Hence, the same metrics have to be evaluated by individual State governors to act differently if necessary, and rightfully so. 

I think this is exactly what is going to happen. I think essential business in most of these states is more then we realize. I think unemployment could hurt the retail industry the most. Everything though trickles down from one industry to the next.

 

 

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I just saw that Kroger is putting in some new policies. They will be putting a barrier up between the cashier and the customer. Be marking on the floors so people in line aren’t to close to each other. Also going to be trying to get masks for employees that want them.

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49 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

"The researchers concluded that additional studies using larger numbers of patients are needed to fully investigate the drug’s risks and benefits."

 

Agreed, and also the Z-Pak/Chloroquine cocktail, too.  I want the Risk/Reward evaluation from valid studies.

 

As much as there has been attention here on the malaria drug and Z-Pak mix, I've been following the trail on remdesivir, and is what has had my attention for drug treatment potential-

 

"A randomized, controlled clinical trial to evaluate the safety and efficacy of the investigational antiviral remdesivir in hospitalized adults diagnosed with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) began at the University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC) in Omaha on February 25.

 

“We urgently need a safe and effective treatment for COVID-19. Although remdesivir has been administered to some patients with COVID-19, we do not have solid data to indicate it can improve clinical outcomes,” said NIAID Director and U.S. Coronavirus Task Force member Anthony S. Fauci, M.D. “A randomized, placebo-controlled trial is the gold standard for determining if an experimental treatment can benefit patients.

 

Remdesivir, developed by Gilead Sciences Inc., is an investigational broad-spectrum antiviral treatment. It has shown promise in animal models for treating Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) and severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), which are caused by other coronaviruses.

 

The study is double-blind, meaning trial investigators and participants would not know who is receiving remdesivir or placebo. An independent data and safety monitoring board (DSMB) will monitor ongoing results to ensure patient well-being and safety as well as study integrity. The DSMB will recommend the study be halted if there is clear and substantial evidence of a treatment difference between drug and placebo.

 

Gilead Sciences, Inc. has announced the initiation of two Phase 3 clinical studies to evaluate the safety and efficacy of remdesivir in adults diagnosed with COVID-19 (novel coronavirus). These randomized, open-label, multicenter studies will enroll approximately 1,000 patients at medical centers primarily across Asian countries, as well as other countries globally with high numbers of diagnosed cases, beginning in March.

 

And just today I see Duke University (Hospital) starting their own trial of Remdesivir.

 

Duke University Hospital will take part in the first national tests of a drug that could be effective in treating COVID-19.


Duke patients with significant symptoms of COVID-19 will be given the option to participate in the trial, which will begin immediately and be limited to adults. Wolfe said remdesivir works by directly attacking the virus, by preventing it from reproducing.

 

He said the study is unusual in that it is designed to incorporate information developed at other research centers or in other countries as the pandemic unfolds, which could point to potential changes in dosages or perhaps the addition of another drug. “There’s lots of adjustments that can be made as you get more data.”

 

Duke put this together in 6 days. 

 

Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article241491106.html#storylink=cpy

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What happens when a system gets overwhelmed and there isn’t enough people to treat the ones sick or not enough supplies. The government makes the choice who gets treated when there is nationalized healthcare. The old are left to die. Don’t be dumb.

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To help some of you visualize the spread based on certain measures and precautions (or lack thereof):

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

 

Also, let Hong Kong be a model case of how easing restrictions too soon can be a terrible idea. They did an amazing job isolating, tracing, and quarantining the initial infections which led to them all but eradicating the virus in HK. They eased restrictions and confirmed cased doubled.

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7 minutes ago, Shive said:

To help some of you visualize the spread based on certain measures and precautions (or lack thereof):

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

 

Also, let Hong Kong be a model case of how easing restrictions too soon can be a terrible idea. They did an amazing job isolating, tracing, and quarantining the initial infections which led to them all but eradicating the virus in HK. They eased restrictions and confirmed cased doubled.

Pretty sure HK is a pretty tight environment like NYC. Most of Americans don’t live like that. Which is why so many US cities who do live like that and use mass transit will probably have to be dealt with differently then rural America. It’s not a one size fits all. 

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16 minutes ago, Shive said:

To help some of you visualize the spread based on certain measures and precautions (or lack thereof):

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

 

Also, let Hong Kong be a model case of how easing restrictions too soon can be a terrible idea. They did an amazing job isolating, tracing, and quarantining the initial infections which led to them all but eradicating the virus in HK. They eased restrictions and confirmed cased doubled.

Pretty much all models and experts say the same thing - easing up restrictions before this is dealt with completely is a recipe for disaster. Meaning - all the measures you took in the first place will be for naught, you will still get similar spread after you ease restrictions as if you never had those strict restrictions in the first place. 

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39 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

As much as there has been attention here on the malaria drug and Z-Pak mix, I've been following the trail on remdesivir, and is what has had my attention for drug treatment potential-

 

"A randomized, controlled clinical trial to evaluate the safety and efficacy of the investigational antiviral remdesivir in hospitalized adults diagnosed with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) began at the University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC) in Omaha on February 25.

 

“We urgently need a safe and effective treatment for COVID-19. Although remdesivir has been administered to some patients with COVID-19, we do not have solid data to indicate it can improve clinical outcomes,” said NIAID Director and U.S. Coronavirus Task Force member Anthony S. Fauci, M.D. “A randomized, placebo-controlled trial is the gold standard for determining if an experimental treatment can benefit patients.

 

Remdesivir, developed by Gilead Sciences Inc., is an investigational broad-spectrum antiviral treatment. It has shown promise in animal models for treating Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) and severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), which are caused by other coronaviruses.

 

The study is double-blind, meaning trial investigators and participants would not know who is receiving remdesivir or placebo. An independent data and safety monitoring board (DSMB) will monitor ongoing results to ensure patient well-being and safety as well as study integrity. The DSMB will recommend the study be halted if there is clear and substantial evidence of a treatment difference between drug and placebo.

 

Gilead Sciences, Inc. has announced the initiation of two Phase 3 clinical studies to evaluate the safety and efficacy of remdesivir in adults diagnosed with COVID-19 (novel coronavirus). These randomized, open-label, multicenter studies will enroll approximately 1,000 patients at medical centers primarily across Asian countries, as well as other countries globally with high numbers of diagnosed cases, beginning in March.

 

And just today I see Duke University (Hospital) starting their own trial of Remdesivir.

 

Duke University Hospital will take part in the first national tests of a drug that could be effective in treating COVID-19.


Duke patients with significant symptoms of COVID-19 will be given the option to participate in the trial, which will begin immediately and be limited to adults. Wolfe said remdesivir works by directly attacking the virus, by preventing it from reproducing.

 

He said the study is unusual in that it is designed to incorporate information developed at other research centers or in other countries as the pandemic unfolds, which could point to potential changes in dosages or perhaps the addition of another drug. “There’s lots of adjustments that can be made as you get more data.”

 

Duke put this together in 6 days. 

 

Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article241491106.html#storylink=cpy

Respectfully, this process is the reason that scientists are hardly ever elevated to positions of leadership.  They go by evidence, data, and proof in order to get the right answer, and any decision made that doesn't follow that process is a "highly questionable" decision. 

 

Science has its place, but that place isn't everywhere.

 

The French scientist who did the hydro....zpak study...which was basically a 100% cure rate for 40 patients...said that the "data" was so overwhelming in the less than scientific process that it was basically as useful as Dr. Fauchi's clinical process.  

 

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10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

What happens when a system gets overwhelmed and there isn’t enough people to treat the ones sick or not enough supplies. The government makes the choice who gets treated when there is nationalized healthcare. The old are left to die. Don’t be dumb.

It wouldn't be any different in our healthcare system if overloaded. Hospital administrators would be making those same exact calls here. The whole point of the measures in place are to flatten the curve and avoid overloading our healthcare system.

 

Also keep in mind that per capita, Italy has more ICU beds than the US by far. Here's an infographic showing just this:

 

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You can s*** on Italy's healthcare system all you want, but their system was way more well equipped than ours is. They just got hit harder and faster, because they didn't take it seriously up front.

 

Many experts are also saying that in the US this is the calm before the storm and expect the next few weeks to be the worst so far.

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6 minutes ago, stitches said:

Pretty much all models and experts say the same thing - easing up restrictions before this is dealt with completely is a recipe for disaster. Meaning - all the measures you took in the first place will be for naught, you will still get similar spread after you ease restrictions as if you never had those strict restrictions in the first place. 

 

True.  The only silver lining is... has industry caught up in having the necessary facilities, equipment, and devices for healthcare teams to treat the resurgence?  Presently, the fear is spike in serious infections too fast and dire circumstances arise.

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13 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Pretty sure HK is a pretty tight environment like NYC. Most of Americans don’t live like that. Which is why so many US cities who do live like that and use mass transit will probably have to be dealt with differently then rural America. It’s not a one size fits all. 

I don't think you understand what I was saying in my last post. They were essentially THE model for how to handle the initial outbreak, despite their tight environment and had amazing results. They thought they were in the clear and eased up on restrictions and saw in immediate resurgence of the virus.

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6 minutes ago, stitches said:

Pretty much all models and experts say the same thing - easing up restrictions before this is dealt with completely is a recipe for disaster. Meaning - all the measures you took in the first place will be for naught, you will still get similar spread after you ease restrictions as if you never had those strict restrictions in the first place. 

NYC and other hot spots will likely have more restrictions.  As many have pointed out, this mandatory shut down has not resulted in a whole lot of things actually being shut down.  It has reduced the twice daily rush hour because people are working from home, but almost all things nonrecreational based has still been operating.  I assume that we have all learned something about distancing and touching surfaces that will carry on for months throughout our normal behavior.

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