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Overshadowed by the dark side yet again


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So I’m excitedly scouring the internet for Buckner and Rivers info and all i see is BRADY.  Everywhere..... 4 articles inna row.  If i scroll down, there is a 2 sentence blurb about Rivers.

And as soon as Brady’s tweet came out, TV media talked about nothing else.  I know its the biggest news out there, but it had people saying “corona who?”

Some things never change i guess.  On the bright side, i do love the underdog role.

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12 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

So I’m excitedly scouring the internet for Buckner and Rivers info and all i see is BRADY.  Everywhere..... 4 articles inna row.  If i scroll down, there is a 2 sentence blurb about Rivers.

And as soon as Brady’s tweet came out, TV media talked about nothing else.  I know its the biggest news out there, but it had people saying “corona who?”

Some things never change i guess.  On the bright side, i do love the underdog role.


If it’s any consolation, Brady’s swan song will be with a 7-9 Bucs team and AFC, especially the South, has opened up considerably. The Texans and Jags both lost arguably their best players and the Titans have tied up so much money in Tannehill and Henry that I think they regress while we have addressed our two greatest weaknesses in a big way before free agency has even opened. 

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AFC South is certainly going to be interesting. I wouldn’t count the Texans out completely yet, Deshaun Watson is a very good QB.

 

Jacksonville still doesn’t know what the hell they’re doing.

 

Indianapolis and Tennessee are the top of the division, and I’d give us the slight edge after the Buckner/Rivers additions, but it’s close. I think we need to add another legitimate WR opposite of Hilton to really flourish. Maybe that’s Campbell, but I’m not comfortable with the WR room as is.

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It’s the same thing on ESPN.  I watched NFL Live and the first half hour was Brady.  Then, a little about Rivers/Colts and Bridgewater/Newton, then back to Brady.  Then, a little about Mariota, then back to Brady.  I’m guessing total, probably 40 minutes + of Brady in the hour long show.

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40 minutes ago, The Peytonator said:


If it’s any consolation, Brady’s swan song will be with a 7-9 Bucs team and AFC, especially the South, has opened up considerably. The Texans and Jags both lost arguably their best players and the Titans have tied up so much money in Tannehill and Henry that I think they regress while we have addressed our two greatest weaknesses in a big way before free agency has even opened. 

TB has a good roster. Good OL, great WRs, decent TEs, and a RB that can catch well. They are #1 vs the run. A couple upgrades vs the pass, and they'll be very well rounded. I don't see them less than 10 wins.

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25 minutes ago, chrisbeldridge said:

It’s the same thing on ESPN.  I watched NFL Live and the first half hour was Brady.  Then, a little about Rivers/Colts and Bridgewater/Newton, then back to Brady.  Then, a little about Mariota, then back to Brady.  I’m guessing total, probably 40 minutes + of Brady in the hour long show.

ESPN is like EasyStreet said about Arians and Brady. They have their lips locked on Brady's backside. 

They are trying to set up Brady for a booth spot when the time comes. They did the same thing with Manning. 

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50 minutes ago, The Peytonator said:


If it’s any consolation, Brady’s swan song will be with a 7-9 Bucs team and AFC, especially the South, has opened up considerably. The Texans and Jags both lost arguably their best players and the Titans have tied up so much money in Tannehill and Henry that I think they regress while we have addressed our two greatest weaknesses in a big way before free agency has even opened. 

Not to turn this into a full on Patriots discussion, but it does make me wonder what they're doing now. Trading someone or waiting for someone to get cut, wouldn't be against their MO, but I'm at a loss on what their plans are tbh.

 

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32 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

TB has a good roster. Good OL, great WRs, decent TEs, and a RB that can catch well. They are #1 vs the run. A couple upgrades vs the pass, and they'll be very well rounded. I don't see them less than 10 wins.

You may be right. Gruden has been gone for a while now. :D

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34 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

TB has a good roster. Good OL, great WRs, decent TEs, and a RB that can catch well. They are #1 vs the run. A couple upgrades vs the pass, and they'll be very well rounded. I don't see them less than 10 wins.


I agree with you a lot there but I do really believe Brady is washed and will bust out hard in an Arians offense. I think their Oline is overrated and the run defense looks good statistically because they were so easy to pass on, similar to ours. Their receivers are studs and Brate and Howard could be an underrated duo, but I don’t see it all working out. Brady has always been a quick passing, YAC dependent QB and it’s gonna be a massive adjustment for a 43 year old who’s known one system his entire career. 

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2 minutes ago, The Peytonator said:


I agree with you a lot there but I do really believe Brady is washed and will bust out hard in an Arians offense. I think their Oline is overrated and the run defense looks good statistically because they were so easy to pass on, similar to ours. Their receivers are studs and Brate and Howard could be an underrated duo, but I don’t see it all working out. Brady has always been a quick passing, YAC dependent QB and it’s gonna be a massive adjustment for a 43 year old who’s known one system his entire career. 

Arians will adjust to Brady, not the other way around. Guaranteed. And Brady can still toss it. He just hasn't had any decent WRs for a few years. I think that's the big reason why he left. Tired of dealing with BB's unwillingness to spend and stabilize the O skill players. 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Arians will adjust to Brady, not the other way around. Guaranteed. And Brady can still toss it. He just hasn't had any decent WRs for a few years. I think that's the big reason why he left. Tired of dealing with BB's unwillingness to spend and stabilize the O skill players. 

Just out of curiosity why do you think Brady will be any better than he was last season.

Brady's pass percentage was worse than Brissett's and he had a better set of receivers than Brissett did after our injuries occurred. 

I watched quite a bit of Brady's film and noticed he just didn't have the touch on his passes that he has had in the past. He was missing wide open receivers pretty much all season long. 

IMO that is why Belichick is ready to move on from Brady. 

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6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Arians will adjust to Brady, not the other way around. Guaranteed. And Brady can still toss it. He just hasn't had any decent WRs for a few years. I think that's the big reason why he left. Tired of dealing with BB's unwillingness to spend and stabilize the O skill players. 

I will believe that when I see it. Arians didn’t adjust to Ben or Luck or Winston. That’s his M.O. No risk it no biskit. Mike Evans on a 6 yard curl 15 times a game?

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4 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

I will believe that when I see it. Arians didn’t adjust to Ben or Luck or Winston. That’s his M.O. No risk it no biskit. Mike Evans on a 6 yard curl 15 times a game?

I know that was Brady's game in NE with Edelman. Occasionally he would throw deep to Gronk.

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1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

I gotta check out the Pats forums.  
Should be good fun.

Unless they shut them down.

They probably shut down because they know their time is over. They had a great run though but now they can go through what we have went through after Peyton left haha . No more automatic 12-4 seasons now lmao 

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know that was Brady's game in NE with Edelman. Occasionally he would throw deep to Gronk.

Yeah he did and he will still make some throws to those WRs. They are good. I just think he’s going to get hit more than he ever has been . That’s just the nature of Arians. 
 

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12 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just out of curiosity why do you think Brady will be any better than he was last season.

Brady's pass percentage was worse than Brissett's and he had a better set of receivers than Brissett did after our injuries occurred. 

I watched quite a bit of Brady's film and noticed he just didn't have the touch on his passes that he has had in the past. He was missing wide open receivers pretty much all season long. 

IMO that is why Belichick is ready to move on from Brady. 

There's a lot,,,, but I'll try to keep it high level.

 

OL - NE's OL was trash early in the year when Wynn went out, and started to get better late season when he got back. They were 18th in protection rate. Very poor to mediocre most of the year.

 

Running game - was mediocre at best. They didn't have a 100 yard rusher in any game all year long.

 

TEs... They had basically no TEs lol.. I don't think they had a TE over 200 yards for the season.

 

WRs... It was a mess all year. N'Keal Harry was injured in training camp. Antonio Brown was a cluster and gone after one game. Gordon was a cluster and gone after like 5 games. Sanu was brought in mid season and never amounted to much. Their two leading WRs were Edelman and Dorsett, and Dorsett didn't even eclipse 400 yards. His pass catchers also had the 7th most drops in the league. In short, a mess, constant drama, mediocre/droppers, and a revolving door of new faces. Not sure how you think he had a good WR situation??? It was suppose to be a strength but was plain chaos and horrible lol. And you think ours was the only bad situation. 

 

So Brady.... With an injury impacted mediocre OL for a large part of the year, a mediocre running game all year, no TEs, and a mess at WR................

 

So with all the above... Brady was still

#7 in total yards

#17 in QBR

3:1 TD to INT ratio

#10 completed air yards

#12 in money throws

#9 in deep ball completion %

 

Those are of course cherry picked stats, but there's good reason he looked regressed last year. Perhaps age is catching up with him, but there was a lot more than age going on last season.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

I will believe that when I see it. Arians didn’t adjust to Ben or Luck or Winston. That’s his M.O. No risk it no biskit. Mike Evans on a 6 yard curl 15 times a game?

Those guys were young when he had them, and they certainly weren't the guy they call the GOAT. Brady doesn't have to hit throw short all game. He was #9 in deep ball completion % last year.... His AVG regressed last year, but there was good reason for it (see above).

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Those are of course cherry picked stats, but there's good reason he looked regressed last year. Perhaps age is catching up with him, but there was a lot more than age going on last season.

 

I agree, there was a lot more than just Brady regressing last season. However, the film is still telling. He didn't have to overthrow open receivers, didn't have to throw the ball at the running back's feet in simple screens, etc. Brady has been regressing for a while now. These throws started to appear in early 2018, first sporadically, then more frequently. In 2019, it was way worse than before, and gotten worse as the season went by. Who knows how it continues in 2020? Maybe the gradual regression will continue, but he'll still be able to compete at a top10-15 ish level, maybe it will accelerate.

 

So the Bucs took a risk, no doubt. But the Colts took a risk too. That is what it is if you don't have a franchise QB. You have to take risks.

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I know most of us are TB12 haters but give the man the damn credit he deserves. Manning was the same when he was leaving. Both deserve this. I sincerely hope TB will do well. 

 

Patriots on the other hand look awful atm. 

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1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

I agree, there was a lot more than just Brady regressing last season. However, the film is still telling. He didn't have to overthrow open receivers, didn't have to throw the ball at the running back's feet in simple screens, etc. Brady has been regressing for a while now. These throws started to appear in early 2018, first sporadically, then more frequently. In 2019, it was way worse than before, and gotten worse as the season went by. Who knows how it continues in 2020? Maybe the gradual regression will continue, but he'll still be able to compete at a top10-15 ish level, maybe it will accelerate.

 

So the Bucs took a risk, no doubt. But the Colts took a risk too. That is what it is if you don't have a franchise QB. You have to take risks.

It's always a risk lol. Bottom line if he can still lead them to the playoffs with that mess, he'll do just fine with a much better supporting cast.

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   The one argument I had against Brady being declared the GOAT, was that he never had to outsmart BB. I’ve always maintained that a lot of QBs would have had success with BB in charge.

    TB does play the Pats in NE in 2021. If Brady goes there and is still playing in 2021, he’ll get his chance.

    

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25 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

   The one argument I had against Brady being declared the GOAT...


How about the fact that every one of his accomplishments was highly likely to have been assisted by Patriot cheating?  Not too hard to look like a HOFer when you’re told the exact defense ten seconds into the 45-second clock....

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I tried to watch NFL Network and ESPN to see updates but every time I would turn it on it would be more Brady. And the same questions and comments over and over. At one point my wife that doesn't even follow sports says, "it's not like he died. What's the big deal?" Lol 

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5 hours ago, funktacious2 said:

Not to turn this into a full on Patriots discussion, but it does make me wonder what they're doing now. Trading someone or waiting for someone to get cut, wouldn't be against their MO, but I'm at a loss on what their plans are tbh.

 

trade for dalton, or maybe move up for herbert or love

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I understand the OP concern but Brady I am sure has achieved something during his tenure with NE, and I believe is a HOF, and been solid for where he was drafted. Don't take it wrong I have no love for the guy, but not surprised that he is getting all the media attention vs River or Teddy or CAM or Mariota etc.  

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6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

TB has a good roster. Good OL, great WRs, decent TEs, and a RB that can catch well. They are #1 vs the run. A couple upgrades vs the pass, and they'll be very well rounded. I don't see them less than 10 wins.

We are going to find out if Brady made the system run or if the system made Brady run. Will the Bucs be as offensively creative as the Pats have been with BB and Joshua McSuckit. His receivers are pretty outstanding for sure. I’m not sure if his Oline is going to be his best line he has had in his career. Who is going to be his Wes Welker/Edelman?? That underneath stuff opened up Brady’s deeper shots and he is going to break down much sooner than he did just a few years ago, Father Time has sent out the bill and he is past due on payment. Will they send the bill collector out this season? It’s going to be an interesting development this season (providing the season takes place). 

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59 minutes ago, Archer said:

They could go with Stidham...

I could see BB saying I’m just going to turn Stidham into the next successful Pats QB and once I show the league he can be successful in a year or two, he steps away and goes down as the best coach ever while the world watches Brady fade very quick. Brady would then look like just a system QB more so than a GOAT. Fair or not, if one of the two succeeds and the other fails, it will reflect on their view from others imho. 

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6 hours ago, LockeDown said:

I will believe that when I see it. Arians didn’t adjust to Ben or Luck or Winston. That’s his M.O. No risk it no biskit. Mike Evans on a 6 yard curl 15 times a game?

 

What I think we will see is O.J.Howard used more because Brady will have the autonomy of changing the play on the line of scrimmage. He will ask Arians to give him reads at every level and if Brady takes reads 7 out of 10 times underneath, he will minimize risk that Arians can typically put on you. Andrew Luck would ignore open RBs in the flat like Donald Brown and continue to chuck it, and Arians would point it out to him. Brady won't miss those, I can guarantee it.

 

The key is the slot wide out and the RBs, as to who will get the increased production there. Like I said, prime time games vs Brees and Rodgers are a certainty with Brady.

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1 hour ago, Jdubu said:

I could see BB saying I’m just going to turn Stidham into the next successful Pats QB and once I show the league he can be successful in a year or two, he steps away and goes down as the best coach ever while the world watches Brady fade very quick. Brady would then look like just a system QB more so than a GOAT. Fair or not, if one of the two succeeds and the other fails, it will reflect on their view from others imho. 

 

Absolutely!!! That was the hard reality for Pats fans to accept, that Brady's win percentage in the playoffs was heavily influenced in close games by the Patriots being coached as a complete team, Brady benefited as well in games he did not play well, that most QBs would have lost.

 

Brady defenders would just say "Belichick couldn't change game plans on a dime if it was any other QB." My response was, "yes, he can". A guy who gave Jim Kelly, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning fits by coaching the defensive side, do we really want to bet against him going against elite QBs?

 

Most importantly, the combo of Brady and Belichick made the Patriots a bigger threat than each of them by themselves. It was the difference of a division winner vs HFA in the playoffs that Brady brought to the table, IMO. The playoffs is where coaching shines the most and the ability to change plans, adapt quickly on offense or defense, helped them with so many close playoff wins over the years, and it would be 2 or 3 SBs for Brady, if not for Belichick and that coaching staff, IMO.

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15 hours ago, The Peytonator said:


I agree with you a lot there but I do really believe Brady is washed and will bust out hard in an Arians offense. I think their Oline is overrated and the run defense looks good statistically because they were so easy to pass on, similar to ours. Their receivers are studs and Brate and Howard could be an underrated duo, but I don’t see it all working out. Brady has always been a quick passing, YAC dependent QB and it’s gonna be a massive adjustment for a 43 year old who’s known one system his entire career. 

Interesting point.  We all know that Arians likes to air out the ball deep.  Is Brady's arm still up to the task?  At 43 going on 44...probably not.   Great QB's usually change uniforms to fade into retirement.  

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Football writers and analysts are BEGGING for something to talk about. Having the Ugg dude move teams is like manna from heaven for them. 

 

When he does possibly go into the media side of the NFL, please....for the love of all things...

 

 

replace Deion Sanders!

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15 hours ago, The Peytonator said:


I agree with you a lot there but I do really believe Brady is washed and will bust out hard in an Arians offense. I think their Oline is overrated and the run defense looks good statistically because they were so easy to pass on, similar to ours. Their receivers are studs and Brate and Howard could be an underrated duo, but I don’t see it all working out. Brady has always been a quick passing, YAC dependent QB and it’s gonna be a massive adjustment for a 43 year old who’s known one system his entire career. 

Yeah, Arians loves chunk passing. That really hasn't been the scheme that Brady thrived in. Lull you to sleep with the dink and dunk, then occasionally surprise you with the long one.

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11 hours ago, Jdubu said:

We are going to find out if Brady made the system run or if the system made Brady run. Will the Bucs be as offensively creative as the Pats have been with BB and Joshua McSuckit. His receivers are pretty outstanding for sure. I’m not sure if his Oline is going to be his best line he has had in his career. Who is going to be his Wes Welker/Edelman?? That underneath stuff opened up Brady’s deeper shots and he is going to break down much sooner than he did just a few years ago, Father Time has sent out the bill and he is past due on payment. Will they send the bill collector out this season? It’s going to be an interesting development this season (providing the season takes place). 

I think his OL will be just fine. Better than NE's last year, that's for sure. I think both of his top WRs are big and multi functional, so IMO either can play the big slot underneath if needed. Sure father time is catching up, but IMO, this is his best group of pass catchers in several years. Gonna be fun, but like you said, IF it happens lol.. I still so bummed about March Madness and the NBA.

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On 3/18/2020 at 10:09 AM, chad72 said:

 

Absolutely!!! That was the hard reality for Pats fans to accept, that Brady's win percentage in the playoffs was heavily influenced in close games by the Patriots being coached as a complete team, Brady benefited as well in games he did not play well, that most QBs would have lost.

 

Brady defenders would just say "Belichick couldn't change game plans on a dime if it was any other QB." My response was, "yes, he can". A guy who gave Jim Kelly, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning fits by coaching the defensive side, do we really want to bet against him going against elite QBs?

 

Most importantly, the combo of Brady and Belichick made the Patriots a bigger threat than each of them by themselves. It was the difference of a division winner vs HFA in the playoffs that Brady brought to the table, IMO. The playoffs is where coaching shines the most and the ability to change plans, adapt quickly on offense or defense, helped them with so many close playoff wins over the years, and it would be 2 or 3 SBs for Brady, if not for Belichick and that coaching staff, IMO.

Would have also been three for all of them, if not for:

“Tuck rule” game against Oakland in 2001

The “I can’t believe they didn’t run Lynch” fiasco against Seattle.

And the infamous “28-3” darling of a nosedive by Atlanta 

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