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Colts trade for DT DeForest Buckner


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11 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

We need another DT....nose tackle

 

I will not be shocked at all if we aren't done making moves on the DL.  That said, Autry was very good 2 years ago and I think he can play anywhere on the DL if needed (with rush end being his weakest spot).  Also, Stewart was drafted as a development pick.  Ballard was very high on him last year, and I get the sense Ballard thinks Stewart's about to turn the corner.  Having an elite guy next to him should only help.  

 

As is, if we stay healthy and Turay, Stewart and Banogu continue developing, our DL should already be much better than it was last year (especially if Houston doesn't decline).  If we add another improvement, it'll be that much better.  I thought prior to yesterday that IDL was probably the biggest need on this team (without a doubt, the biggest need on D).  Now, I think QB, WR, TE are bigger needs than any other position on D.  

 

In Ballard, I trust.

 

10 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

I don't think they are hitting the panic button either...but I do think this move was made (in part) to fully push open the competitive window and win now. They traded their top draft assett (a lottery pick)...AND a huge chunk of cap space...for a 26 year-old player in his prime.

 

And this is probably the last two seasons where your core aren't all on 2nd deals (Nelson, Leonard, Smith).

 

Even if we are optimistic and assume Buckner will stay in that prime for the entirety of his 5-year deal...I think they are still going to want to maximize each of those years...and especially the next two. Now maximizing doesn't mean they have to imprudently sacrifice the future to win right now...it just means making sure you have enough pieces in place to compete. 

 

So for this upcoming season...it potentially means being even a bit more aggressive in FA/trades...upgrading the QB position...and adding some weapons...which I think is definitely doable by the end of the draft.

 

 

I don't disagree with you here.  And yes, we still have quite a bit of draft picks and even though we lost our first rounder, there should be talent around in the 2nd and 3rd rounds when we pick (definitely possible to seriously upgrade the TE and WR positions, though not very optimistic about the QBs in this draft after Burrows).  

 

That said, I believe this team can still win the AFC South even if Brissett is our QB, so long as we give him a few more weapons and we stay relatively healthy across the board.  I know you never want a game to come down to a field goal, but literally, our kicker(s) cost us for sure 3 games, potentially 5 games last year.  With all the injuries, etc. we had, I don't have much doubt that this team can win the AFC South with Brissett next year and potentially make a run in the playoffs is we improve at our other weak spots.  I'm not saying I think Brissett is the long-term answer at QB, but I'm skeptical about Rivers, I don't really want to see Brady as a Colt, we're unsure if Carr will be available, and while I think Bridgewater would be an upgrade, I don't think he's a surefire solution for the long term.  I'd be fine seeing Brissett at QB again this year, and think we can certainly contend to win the AFC South if we stay healthy as a team, make field goals and extra points and improve at other areas of weakness.  If Brissett doesn't make a major leap, I'd be fine addressing the QB next year, as I think that's a deeper QB draft and there will likely be some younger FA QBs that'd be able to give us more than 1-2 years of service.

 

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When he was with the Browns, he was actually an above average player. When he joined us he got fat and lazy like you said. He stunk here.

 

I don't know about that... he averaged 3.6 yards per carry.  Last year in the NFL there were 40 RBs and 1 QB who had >100 rushing attempts and averaged more than that (including our own Marlon Mack who rushed for 4.4 ypc).  In 2012, there were 37 guys with >100 carries who had a higher average (35 RBs plus RGIII and Cam Newton).  Donnie Brown average 3.9 ypc for us that same year.  

 

Richardson was ranked 17 in total rushing yards across RBs (with more carries than multiple guys above him), so he in terms of league wide RBs, he was slightly below average in terms of total yards and well below average in YPC.  For comparison, Richardson's total yards in 2019 would have also put him at 17th in the league, and 10 of the guys with >950 yards in 2019 had less carries than Richardson did in 2012.

 

Richardson had pretty good receiving yards for a back, but it wasn't like he was anywhere near an all-pro or a top 5 guy at his position.  Buckner is coming off a pro-bowl year, one year removed from being 1st team all-pro and I think the majority of people would say the only clear cut DT in the league who is better than Buckner is Donald.  

 

And, I think most would agree that RBs are much more expendable that IDL in the post 2010 league (aside from guys like Saquon Barkley, AP in his prime, Derrick Henry last year and a few others, a lot of GMs view the position as pretty interchangeable -- there wasn't even an RB selected in the first round of the 2013 draft).

 

Sure, it didn't help that Richardson got fatter and lazier when he became a Colt... but he wasn't an elite guy worth a first round pick when we made the trade for him.  Buckner's an all-pro and a top 2-5 guy at his position across the league.  IMO, they are much different trades and the Buckner one makes a lot more sense.  

 

3 hours ago, Two_pound said:

If a gm doesn't like a player at 13 I really don't think he would consider that same player at 34. A wasted pick at 13 is a wasted pick 21 spots later. This trade is fantastic, even with the 13th pick as the cost. The steelers gave up what turned out to be the 19th(I think it is) pick in the draft last September for Fitzpatrick. All in all this was a much better move.

 

Not disagreeing with you entirely about if the GM doesn't want a guy, he doesn't want a guy.. but the 13th pick and the 34th pick are very different.  Especially at QB.  If you pull the trigger at 13 (or anywhere in the top  half of the first round), you get crucified as a GM if the player busts or doesn't become a franchise QB within the first couple years.  If you take a QB after the first round, there's a lot more leeway in allowing the player to develop and having fans and the media forget about the player not turning out to be great within a few years.

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We just got a 25-year-old All-Pro at a crucial position on the defense.    

Colts don't spend... We're losers.. Colts spend... Spent on Wrong guy... Colts trade... Don't like the trade.   Can't win with our fanbase.. Lol  

Couple thoughts on this:   1. This clearly signals that Colts will sign Phillip Rivers and/or draft a QB at 34. 2. Buckner was named an All-Pro last year at DT. He's a great player and

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19 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

We just got a 25-year-old All-Pro at a crucial position on the defense.

 

 

so we can go 8-8 next year?  how did he do against pat mahomes teamed up with the best defensive line in football they got smashed up 31 points gave up .   this is a new era  offensive teams win rings now

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19 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

GO BALLARD! We just got a monster at DT! Love this deal! 2nd best DT behind Donald in the league!

im sure the rams fans are so happy after signing donald all that money and not making the playoffs with a better QB then jacoby. 21 million a year eats up the cap

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5 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

how did he do against pat mahomes

 

Uh, he had 6 tkls and 1.5 sacks.  His individual performances are usually pretty darn good considering he is an IDL...

 

3 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

21 million a year eats up the cap

 

Which we can afford to pay a stud superstar IDL when we have the most cap in the NFL...  I mean... Ballard could open up an all-you-can-eat buffet for available free agents and still have money left over, so what's your gripe?  It's not your money...

 

7 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

so we can go 8-8 next year?

 

coming on weak  :lol:

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7 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

so we can go 8-8 next year?  how did he do against pat mahomes teamed up with the best defensive line in football they got smashed up 31 points gave up .   this is a new era  offensive teams win rings now

Which makes having a great Defense even more important. 

 

Points allowed/points scored.  Improve one you increase your chance of winning. Simple! 

Now lets improve our offense.  You can't sacrifice one for the other. 

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3 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Uh, he had 6 tkls and 1.5 sacks.  His individual performances are usually pretty darn good considering he is an IDL...

 

 

Which we can afford to pay a stud superstar IDL when we have the most cap in the NFL...  I mean... Ballard could open up an all-you-can-eat buffet for available free agents and still have money left over, so what's your gripe?  It's not your money...

 

 

coming on weak  :lol:

your laughing like the team is gonna be super bowl contenders with a bottom 5 QB    a QB through the second half of the season threw 3 tds to 4 picks  . we had the easiest schedule in the nfl  last year .   i hope your right and now we have the best defense in the nfl like the 2000 ravens and they carry jacoby but i just dont see it.  when dts get paid they usually do not play hard anymore

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8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is how he did against Mahomes.

 

 

the point was they still lost even with bosa and other elite defensive line men and rushers . At crunch time it came to jimmy g having to throw the ball on 3 drives to win the game and he couldnt do it .  the game came down to QB .  now why would 49ers trade such a value player? because they realize they need a QB upgrade ? love to 49ers

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5 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

your laughing like the team is gonna be super bowl contenders with a bottom 5 QB    a QB through the second half of the season threw 3 tds to 4 picks  . we had the easiest schedule in the nfl  last year .   i hope your right and now we have the best defense in the nfl like the 2000 ravens and they carry jacoby but i just dont see it.  when dts get paid they usually do not play hard anymore

We have no idea what they will do in the draft. This guy has exceptional character. You know when ballard trades a 1st and pays him like that he is sold. Trust Ballard he doesn’t do this unless the player is special.

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1 minute ago, coming on strong said:

the point was the still lost even with bosa and other elite defensive line men and rushers . At crunch time it came to jimmy g having to throw the ball on 3 drives to win the game and he couldnt do it .  the game came down to QB .  now why would 49ers trade such a value player? because they realize they need a QB upgrade ? love to 49ers

They traded him because they havevlike five first round picks on that line. They paid Armstead. They knew they wouldn’t be able to keep him. Now they get a 13th pick to get a WR or maybe Kinlaw who will be on a rookie deal. It’s a win win for both sides.

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19 minutes ago, wordofmouth said:

Which makes having a great Defense even more important. 

 

Points allowed/points scored.  Improve one you increase your chance of winning. Simple! 

Now lets improve our offense.  You can't sacrifice one for the other. 

you cant improve the offense with a bad QB . now we are stuck in QB purgatory .  that is my fear then next year if we go 10-6 to get bounced out the first round and never have a high enough pick to get a QB .  its not worth it to me to be like the 2012 to 2016 texans a good talented defense and a terrible QB going to playoffs every year to get bounced out and got no attention because everyone  knew they were no threat without a QB.  then there players get old after the the 5 year gap  and it got you no where .

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8 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

your laughing like the team is gonna be super bowl contenders with a bottom 5 QB    a QB through the second half of the season threw 3 tds to 4 picks  . we had the easiest schedule in the nfl  last year .   i hope your right and now we have the best defense in the nfl like the 2000 ravens and they carry jacoby but i just dont see it.  when dts get paid they usually do not play hard anymore

 

You're projecting after only one day of free agency.  Extremely premature.

 

Ballard just started building his 2020 roster, literally, yesterday.  And he has a history of turning the teams' biggest weakness into a strength, ie Nelson transforming the OLine, Leonard energizing the LBs, Ebron becoming the best weapon on our offense, now Buckner becoming arguably the best player on our defense at arguably our weakest position on defense.

 

Don't be surprised if Ballard addresses our biggest offensive weaknesses (QB and WR) in the next couple months.  Wait until you know the entire roster before making silly projections/assumptions.  :thmup:

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9 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

You're projecting after only one day of free agency.  Extremely premature.

 

Ballard just started building his 2020 roster, literally, yesterday.  And he has a history of turning the teams' biggest weakness into a strength, ie Nelson transforming the OLine, Leonard energizing the LBs, Ebron becoming the best weapon on our offense, now Buckner becoming arguably the best player on our defense at arguably our weakest position on defense.

 

Don't be surprised if Ballard addresses our biggest offensive weaknesses (QB and WR) in the next couple months.  Wait until you know the entire roster before making silly projections/assumptions.  :thmup:

 ebron is gone ballard said that .  my point is its much harder to find a QB in the later rounds .i dont see us being legitimate contenders without a solid QB.  people do not understand the chiefs defense the second half of the season stepped up and was in the top 10 they have a elite defensive line and big time pro bowlers in secondary . the chiefs are running the afc its gonna be sad like the patriots owned the afc for 20 years . i hope i am wrong i will never vote for the colts to lose . i just see us like the 2012 to 2016 texans going to the playoffs and getting knocked out due to not having a QB then when all your players get old draft a QB and now the team needs to be rebuild again .

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14 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

You're projecting after only one day of free agency.  Extremely premature.

 

Ballard just started building his 2020 roster, literally, yesterday.  And he has a history of turning the teams' biggest weakness into a strength, ie Nelson transforming the OLine, Leonard energizing the LBs, Ebron becoming the best weapon on our offense, now Buckner becoming arguably the best player on our defense at arguably our weakest position on defense.

 

Don't be surprised if Ballard addresses our biggest offensive weaknesses (QB and WR) in the next couple months.  Wait until you know the entire roster before making silly projections/assumptions.  :thmup:

we have a 5 year window and all our young players are 30 or older .  if we cant find a QB by then we have to rebuild again

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8 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

 ebron is gone ballard said that .  my point is its much harder to find a QB in the later rounds .i dont see us being legitimate contenders without a solid QB.  people do not understand the chiefs defense the second half of the season stepped up and was in the top 10 they have a elite defensive line and big time pro bowlers in secondary . the chiefs are running the afc its gonna be sad like the patriots owned the afc for 20 years . i hope i am wrong i will never vote for the colts to lose . i just see us like the 2012 to 2016 texans going to the playoffs and getting knocked out due to not having a QB then when all your players get old draft a QB and now the team needs to be rebuild again .

 

6 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

we have a 5 year window and all our young players are 30 or older .  if we cant find a QB by then we have to rebuild again

 

First of all... no offense... but geez, capitalization and punctuation are your friends.  haha  I feel like I have to retrain my brain to be able to read your posts...

 

Second, again, you're projecting unnecessarily.  It's literally day 2 of Free Agency.  Breath.  Relax.  The 2020 roster is far from finalized.  You're looking too far into the past and into the future.

 

September is when the rubber meets the road.  All this other stuff about the last 20 years or the next 5 years is irrelevant.  The focus should be on making continual improvements to the roster leading up to September (which is still 6 months away), so sit back and enjoy the ride, because this premature complaining after one day of free agency doesn't suit you.  :hat:

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28 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

we have a 5 year window and all our young players are 30 or older .  if we cant find a QB by then we have to rebuild again

All our young players are 30 or older?    Not sure what you are trying to say.

Buckner

Nelson

Smith

Campbell

Leonard

and many more are very young.   We have a very good nucleus for the future.   

I agree that a capable QB is missing, but it is still early.   I don't think a pro bowl QB was going to be available at 13.  

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Some people seem to think it was a lock we were going to find a Pro Bowl quarterback at 13 this year. It doesn't work that way most of the time. We can still find a quarterback. This was our best option to find a game-changing defensive lineman.

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33 minutes ago, Myles said:

All our young players are 30 or older?    Not sure what you are trying to say.

Buckner

Nelson

Smith

Campbell

Leonard

and many more are very young.   We have a very good nucleus for the future.   

I agree that a capable QB is missing, but it is still early.   I don't think a pro bowl QB was going to be available at 13.  

what are you talking about ? i said in 5 years those guys will be 30  . that is why i said we have a 5 year window to get a QB

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5 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

what are you talking about ? i said in 5 years those guys will be 30  . that is why i said we have a 5 year window to get a QB

You may have meant that, but you left out some words that would have made it more clear.

Besides, there are 5 more drafts and FA between now and then, so that window could be expanded.  

 

"we have a 5 year window and all our young players are 30 or older"

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2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Uh, he had 6 tkls and 1.5 sacks.  His individual performances are usually pretty darn good considering he is an IDL...

 

 

Which we can afford to pay a stud superstar IDL when we have the most cap in the NFL...  I mean... Ballard could open up an all-you-can-eat buffet for available free agents and still have money left over, so what's your gripe?  It's not your money...

 

 

coming on weak  :lol:

And foolish.

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23 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

i said in 5 years those guys will be 30  . that is why i said we have a 5 year window to get a QB

 

Won't every team in the NFL have to deal with their main core of players being over 30 in 5 years?

 

And won't every team in the NFL have to deal with the QB position over the next 5 years one way or another?

 

Trying to look 5 years ahead in the NFL is as useless as * on a bull.  It's like you're talking a lot, but not really saying anything... your point is pointless.

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19 hours ago, EastStreet said:

If it happens, it's very rare, and because of necessity instead of design . Name another 4-3 team that starts two true 3 techs without injury.

No. Injury did not push him into starts. Hunt's snaps simply decreased. The pre-season talk was that they expected him to have a bigger role, and that he had been coming along nicely since drafted in 2017.  Woods was let go early, and signed back with Seattle very early in the summer. It was likely their strategy (to use Stewart) that allowed them to let Woods go.

Injuries really did plus the fact that hunt wasn't producing and lewis got hurt because they wanted to push lewis more but again he got hurt so they had to give stewart more playing time and if they would've kept woods he probably would've got cut 

19 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

how do you gameplan for that? you cant crowd the box all game

If the qb is not all that good why not? Force the run first team to throw

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7 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Injuries really did plus the fact that hunt wasn't producing and lewis got hurt because they wanted to push lewis more but again he got hurt so they had to give stewart more playing time and if they would've kept woods he probably would've got cut 

If the qb is not all that good why not? Force the run first team to throw

Hunt was the one Stewart took snaps from. If you look at the snap counts by game, Hunts snaps went down after game 3 when Stewarts ticked up. They said pre-season they were expecting Stewart to be a part of the rotation this year, and that was after they let Woods go and signed back with Seattle (who hardly played by the way due to PEDs).

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22 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Well I think some people, like myself, saw the very high talent that was going to be available at the 13th overall pick. Mainly guys like Jerry Jeudy, Ceedee Lamb, Derrick Brown, and Javon Kinlaw. That's why I'm a bit disappointed we couldn't have gotten Buckner for a little less. 

But aren’t you  just hoping those guys can turn into a player like Buckner? Ballard just got the sure thing at age 26.

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My thoughts on this trade probably come off as me disliking it. That's not the case but there are some trade-offs to it that I think should be recognized.

 

IMO, there are two ideal times to make this type of move and neither fit this scenario.

 

1) You trade for a long-term starter at QB

2) You trade for an important piece to make a Super Bowl run when your QB is in place. (like KC last year trading for Frank Clark) 

 

Value is important. Part of achieving sustained success in the NFL is acquiring players below market value. Once players like Buckner get to their second contract you pay at or above market value. The only time you don't have to is when there is an injury or character concern neither of which is the case with Bucker. Giving up the 13th overall pick adds to the cost. If I am going to pay at or above market value for a player then I prefer it be a QB or when I have a QB in place for the long-term.

 

The Colts lose some flexibility with this move. You lose some in the draft and cap space going forward. The argument can certainly be made that Buckner is worth it. However, it's still a loss in flexibility which might hurt as the team looks for a long-term QB.

 

The upside to this is that Buckner is a very good player. The chances are that he will be as good or better than whoever the Colts could select at 13. Buckner will make this defense better. There is no doubt about that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This is official now. He already had his physical or SF gave the colts everything they had. 

 

He just did a conference call. Very impressive. It should be up on the colts AP and iTunes soon. We should get Rivers as soon as he passes a physical.

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One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that this could be a good thing by Ballard.  We've all heard for the past 18 months how much he really liked Love.  Maybe he is a smart enough evaluator to go against his initial evaluation and not pull the trigger on someone at 13 (conceivably) that he once really liked.  He decided that Buckner was better than anyone on his board past the 12 number.

 

Caveat, I do not like the Rivers trade but can live with one-year.  His side-arm and constant complaining drive me crazy.

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On 3/17/2020 at 8:15 AM, ColtStrong2013 said:

 


what he meant was, not only would Houston never trade him... Houston would also never trade him to the Indianapolis Colts. 
 

this needs to be case closed. You have a franchise qb (special one too). You do everything in your power to keep him. Period

Watson will be a FA in 2022.  Way O’Brien and staff has been treating players it wouldn’t surprise me to see Watson want to leave.  We signed a stop-gap QB for 1-2 years with Rivers.  Sometimes jaded players want revenge on their former teams and the Colts play Houston 2x a season (if we are all still alive by then).  Not exactly an open-shut case imho tbh since they traded away his best WR.

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