Colts not pursuing Rivers per Matthew Berry

[boo2202]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ballard did not have a franchise qb fall into his lap as did Polian and Grigson.  Ballard should/will be given more time to fix the position.

 

Its unreasonable to think he should force a qb decision the first offseason after Luck retires.

 

He deserves up to 5 off seasons to find the QB, IMO.

 

A team also cant win without a LT or an impact WR, so he needs to find those too at the same time he's looking for a qb.  Its just as hard to find one of those as it is to find a qb to run Reich's O, IMO.

 

Five offseasons to find the QB?? Lol

If it takes him that long, he’ll be looking for another job. I’ll agree that it’ll take more than one offseason but five?? I sure hope not. 

[EastStreet]

This article is pretty bad. Total regurgitation of another. Also, the title of the thread really doesn't match the topic. The article says Rivers "may not" end up with the Colts. It also says they should sign a vet to compete with JB... So is it OK to sign Rivers to compete with JB? Anyway, just seemed like a poorly thought out piece from someone who sees Ballard differently, at least differently than I do. I don't think signing Rivers and drafting a rook (this year or next) goes against what Ballard has said and done, at all. 

[chad72]

9 hours ago, stitches said:

This is the full quote. This sounds more like bringing in Marcus Mariota type... I guess it all depends on what he does in the draft, but this looks more like a "postpone drafting a QB" move rather than draft a QB early move. I don't know how to feel about it. I'm not convinced this is the way to go... Seems like complacency at both the present and future of the QB situation for the Colts.

 

I doubt they bring any free agent at QB. Draft a QB, however they do it (all combos, early, trade up, late etc.), let JB fight with Chad Kelly and the new QB for a starting spot, let go of Hoyer, and spend big enough on free agents that fit our defense, and load up on offense in the draft.

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I doubt they bring any free agent at QB. Draft a QB, however they do it (all combos, early, trade up, late etc.), let JB fight with Chad Kelly and the new QB for a starting spot, let go of Hoyer, and spend big enough on free agents that fit our defense, and load up on offense in the draft.

As long as we get a talented QB to be our franchise QB of the future I'm good with any QB situation for next year. High end vet, low end vet, JB alone... CK alone... Hoyer alone... any combination of those... I'm good with all of those. 

[DougDew]

38 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

 

Five offseasons to find the QB?? Lol

If it takes him that long, he’ll be looking for another job. I’ll agree that it’ll take more than one offseason but five?? I sure hope not. 

Well, how many seasons does he have to find a LT and a #1WR too?  If you say that he has only three seasons to find 3 positions that require first round talent, then it seems like there is a great chance Ballard will be reaching for talent because he has been given a short timeline.  

 

I think he needs a cushion of a couple of years for the drafts that are low on qb, LT, and wr talent; which happens fairly often.

 

This just illustrates the problem with Grigson/Ballard screwing around with first round draft picks on Cs, Gs, and FSs when there are always more important positions to draft in the first round.

 

BTW, do we still need an EDGE and/or a 3T?

 

For me, the question is: How many more seasons beyond 5 should he get to find 5 top grade talented players at important positions?

[Yoshinator]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Well, how many seasons does he have to find a LT and a #1WR too?  If you say that he has only three seasons to find 3 positions that require first round talent, then it seems like there is a great chance Ballard will be reaching for talent because he has been given a short timeline.  

 

I think he needs a cushion of a couple of years for the drafts that are low on qb, LT, and wr talent; which happens fairly often.

 

This just illustrates the problem with Grigson/Ballard screwing around with first round draft picks on Cs, Gs, and FSs when there are always more important positions to draft in the first round.

 

BTW, do we still need an EDGE and/or a 3T?

 

For me, the question is: How many more seasons beyond 5 should he get to find 5 top grade talented players at important positions?

Ok, two things. 1.) You don't have to replace every need with a 1st round pick. We have an entire draft to do so. 2.) There is FA and trades, which Ballard is only hurting the team by sparingly using to acquire players with. We have lots of cap. I realize we have to pay upcoming draft classes, but we aren't paying Luck anymore either. Time to build a complete team since we can't rely on QB play to carry us.

[boo2202]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Well, how many seasons does he have to find a LT and a #1WR too?  If you say that he has only three seasons to find 3 positions that require first round talent, then it seems like there is a great chance Ballard will be reaching for talent because he has been given a short timeline.  

 

I think he needs a cushion of a couple of years for the drafts that are low on qb, LT, and wr talent; which happens fairly often.

 

This just illustrates the problem with Grigson/Ballard screwing around with first round draft picks on Cs, Gs, and FSs when there are always more important positions to draft in the first round.

 

BTW, do we still need an EDGE and/or a 3T?

 

For me, the question is: How many more seasons beyond 5 should he get to find 5 top grade talented players at important positions?

 

 

This year is a deep draft. He has three picks in the top 45. Getting two of those positions would be nice. Sometimes in FA you need to just go after a guy that fills a need, instead of bargaining diving all the time. Not bashing Ballard, just stating that this offseason is unknown territory after lucks retirement. I think he must and will do things differently.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

 

 

This year is a deep draft. He has three picks in the top 45. Getting two of those positions would be nice. Sometimes in FA you need to just go after a guy that fills a need, instead of bargaining diving all the time. Not bashing Ballard, just stating that this offseason is unknown territory after lucks retirement. I think he must and will do things differently.

I'm simply saying that I think he should have a long timeline before he gets calls to be fired. 

 

How can he control which qbs become available and which ones don't?

 

This stuff about finding a certain player soon or else is hogwash.  JMO.

[buccolts]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

That's a bit over the top and it assumes that Ballard can't or won't alter the ships course if the wind changes.  We lost a franchise QB right before the season...I'd say the wind has forced us to change direction a tad en route to the super bowl.

How about next years draft, after the top two?

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Ok, two things. 1.) You don't have to replace every need with a 1st round pick. We have an entire draft to do so. 2.) There is FA and trades, which Ballard is only hurting the team by sparingly using to acquire players with. We have lots of cap. I realize we have to pay upcoming draft classes, but we aren't paying Luck anymore either. Time to build a complete team since we can't rely on QB play to carry us.

Typically those 5 spots, qb, LT, #1wr, edge, and impactful DT must be found in the first.  Second round talent elevating their play into the required level falls into the blind squirrel finding a nut category. 

 

We had a deep DT/DL draft last year, and Ballard got a CB for a zone defense.  As we followed the draft, we saw that the DL talent petered out by pick 26, and that's the circumstances Ballard and any GM faces.  He could have gotten one of those five positions last year, but the draft didn't cooperate.  That extends his firing timeline by a year, IMO.

 

OTOH, this year, it looks like there will be suitable valued talent at qb, OT, DT, or WR at pick 13.  If Ballard goes in another direction besides one of those 4 positions, he should be fired immediately....lol.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Ok, two things. 1.) You don't have to replace every need with a 1st round pick. We have an entire draft to do so. 2.) There is FA and trades, which Ballard is only hurting the team by sparingly using to acquire players with. We have lots of cap. I realize we have to pay upcoming draft classes, but we aren't paying Luck anymore either. Time to build a complete team since we can't rely on QB play to carry us.

Yup. There's no reason why we can't address QB, 3T, OT, and WR... We have 3 picks in the first 44 (all three picks should yield starters), and that doesn't even account for FA. And with the depth of WR, a 3rd round pick (75) is like a second round pick. So realistically you could be looking at 4 starters in the draft alone that are legit quality. And we could easily swap our whole QB room in the process without much impact to cap.

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, buccolts said:

So, what does next years QB market look like at this time?

Get excited for:

-Matt Schaub 

-Robert Griffin III

-Mitchell Trubisky

-Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

There's even more, but you get a taste of what 2021 will be like. Lot's of backups and journeymen playing musical chairs. 

 

This year's free agent group is pretty unprecedented. 

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

This year is a deep draft. He has three picks in the top 45. Getting two of those positions would be nice. Sometimes in FA you need to just go after a guy that fills a need, instead of bargaining diving all the time. Not bashing Ballard, just stating that this offseason is unknown territory after lucks retirement. I think he must and will do things differently.

Like I just posted, we have a lot of options this year. 3 picks in the first 44, a deep WR that will yield 2nd round WRs in the 3rd, and plenty of cap space. We could easily have 4 new quality starters from the draft, and 2-3 from FA is Ballard wants to spend (we added 2 last year). 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Get excited for:

-Matt Schaub 

-Robert Griffin III

-Mitchell Trubisky

-Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

There's even more, but you get a taste of what 2021 will be like. Lot's of backups and journeymen playing musical chairs. 

 

This year's free agent group is pretty unprecedented. 

Cousins, Newton, Dalton too, but Dalton is obviously going to end up somewhere this year.

 

Watson and Mahomes too, but they're CO's and won't make it to the market.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2021/all/quarterback/

[boo2202]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm simply saying that I think he should have a long timeline before he gets calls to be fired. 

 

How can he control which qbs become available and which ones don't?

 

This stuff about finding a certain player soon or else is hogwash.  JMO.

 

I tend to agree he’s been dealt a bad hand. But five years is waiting a long time to fill the most important position in football. Five more years of Brissett / terrible QB play will get him run out of town in a hurry. The QB position is so valuable. Just look at what cardinals did last year with Rosen/Murray. Patriots invest about every year. Playing musical chairs at the QB position for that long will get you fired. 

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Cousins, Newton, Dalton too, but Dalton is obviously going to end up somewhere this year.

 

Watson and Mahomes too, but they're CO's and won't make it to the market.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2021/all/quarterback/

Yep, I didn't include them since I figure they'll either resign or be somewhere else this year. The only one to really pay attention to would be Cousins. 

[MPStack]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm simply saying that I think he should have a long timeline before he gets calls to be fired. 

GM’s don’t get a better part of a decade if the team isn’t getting in the post season. GM’s also, rarely get a 2nd gig. 
 

However, Ballard’s buddy (Dorsey) did have two 3 year stunts before being fired each time.

 

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

How can he control which qbs become available and which ones don't?

He can’t, but not addressing the current QB situation and potentially missing the playoffs in 2020 and 2021 wouldn’t be good for CB.

 

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

This stuff about finding a certain player soon or else is hogwash.  JMO.

 

There are options available far better than the 28th or so ranked passer. (Brissett)

 

I suspect from Ballard’s comments, he is going to approach this off season differently. 

 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

Yep, I didn't include them since I figure they'll either resign or be somewhere else this year. The only one to really pay attention to would be Cousins. 

I think Newton will stick this year, and be in play next year. I think he'll be basically on a prove it year with the new coaching staff. 

 

But yes, I agree, Cousins will be the biggest name.

[Indeee]

11 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Berry thinks Ballard will bring in a QB to compete with JB.  If so then that could mean Mariotta or Foles IMO. 

For the record I was one of if not the first to reccomend/mention Mariota only from an economic 1 year prove it deal that would fit perfectly with how the Colts have been operating. Mariota, JB, and Kelly would be okay. I wouldn't mind that for this year. 

[stitches]

28 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Get excited for:

-Matt Schaub 

-Robert Griffin III

-Mitchell Trubisky

-Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

There's even more, but you get a taste of what 2021 will be like. Lot's of backups and journeymen playing musical chairs. 

 

This year's free agent group is pretty unprecedented. 

This will be the time to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick to compete with Brissett and mentor him in his quest to completing his development as an NFL starting QB. At this time next year Brissett would be almost like a red shirt rookie - you cannot count his first year in NE because he only got like 2-3 games, then you cannot count his year with Chuck because... well... it was a year with Chuck, and you cannot count last year because he observed from up close how a team can run 30 times a game without it involving the QB. It's practically was red-shirt year for him. Acquiring a journeyman like Fitzpatrick who has gathered experience from watching about 30 QBs in his career will help him mentor Jacoby toward the completion of his development that awaits him in his year 30 season. 

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

This will be the time to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick to compete with Brissett and mentor him in his quest to completing his development as an NFL starting QB. At this time next year Brissett would be almost like a red shirt rookie - you cannot count his first year in NE because he only got like 2-3 games, then you cannot count his year with Chuck because... well... it was a year with Chuck, and you cannot count last year because he observed from up close how a team can run 30 times a game without it involving the QB. It's practically was red-shirt year for him. Acquiring a journeyman like Fitzpatrick who has gathered experience from watching about 30 QBs in his career will help him mentor Jacoby toward the completion of his development that awaits him in his year 30 season. 

You forgot the MCL sprain, should be completely healed in 2021. 

[RollerColt]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

This will be the time to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick to compete with Brissett and mentor him in his quest to completing his development as an NFL starting QB. At this time next year Brissett would be almost like a red shirt rookie - you cannot count his first year in NE because he only got like 2-3 games, then you cannot count his year with Chuck because... well... it was a year with Chuck, and you cannot count last year because he observed from up close how a team can run 30 times a game without it involving the QB. It's practically was red-shirt year for him. Acquiring a journeyman like Fitzpatrick who has gathered experience from watching about 30 QBs in his career will help him mentor Jacoby toward the completion of his development that awaits him in his year 30 season. 

Yes... Yes... It's all coming together. 

 

[CR91]

2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

That's a bit over the top and it assumes that Ballard can't or won't alter the ships course if the wind changes.  We lost a franchise QB right before the season...I'd say the wind has forced us to change direction a tad en route to the super bowl.

 

How exactly does Rivers make us a Superbowl team?

[CR91]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Herbert is an excellent option

 

Some of the talking heads..... who are 80% wrong..  Now have Love going before Herbert

 

We need a young QB to come in to develop..

 

I would be ok with any of the top 4

 

 

 

Because the talking heads just like a bunch of NFL teams fell in love with his big arm which works for us.

[OffensivelyPC]

4 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

How exactly does Rivers make us a Superbowl team?

He's an upgrade at QB and we almost made the playoffs with a QB that we want to get rid of.   Once youre' in the playoffs, anything is possible.  

 

Is there someone you'd rather sign or do you want another year of Jacoby?

[OffensivelyPC]

59 minutes ago, buccolts said:

How about next years draft, after the top two?

I mean that's impossible to say at this point.  

[MPStack]

5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

How exactly does Rivers make us a Superbowl team?

I don’t think anyone is saying he does. He potentially gets the Colts back into the post season and allows a Rookie (Herbert, Love) to sit for a year and learn. 
 

Rivers is also probably one of the few QB’s who can be signed to a short contract. 
 

 

[CR91]

2 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He's an upgrade at QB and we almost made the playoffs with a QB that we want to get rid of.   Once youre' in the playoffs, anything is possible.  

 

Is there someone you'd rather sign or do you want another year of Jacoby?

 

I rather sign no one. I want Herbert.

[CR91]

1 minute ago, Superfly said:

I don’t think anyone is saying he does. He potentially gets the Colts back into the post season and allows a Rookie (Herbert, Love) to sit for a year and learn. 
 

Rivers is also probably one of the few QB’s who can be signed to a short contract. 
 

 

 

Rivers has already gone on record to say he does not want to mentor a rookie QB. That was a big reason the chargers moved on.

[buccolts]

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I mean that's impossible to say at this point.  

O.K., so it's just the top two, at this point, unless someone pulls a Burrow.

And either of the top two could pull a Love.

 

The dream of what Kelly COULD be gets more attractive every month.

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

Rivers has already gone on record to say he does not want to mentor a rookie QB. That was a big reason the chargers moved on.

I think there’s more to it than that. Rivers wants to go somewhere and win. It’s not happening in LA for awhile. Why finish out the end of his career there, in rebuild mode? 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Rivers has already gone on record to say he does not want to mentor a rookie QB. That was a big reason the chargers moved on.

Rivers said that 3 years ago when he was still in a "this is my team and I'm not close to retiring" mode. 

 

He's now without a team, and is on record saying he only wants to play 2 more years. If he's sincere about it only being 2 years, he knows mentoring might be a requirement to a new contract.

 

[CR91]

7 minutes ago, Superfly said:

I think there’s more to it than that. Rivers wants to go somewhere and win. It’s not happening in LA for awhile. Why finish out the end of his career there, in rebuild mode? 

 

The chargers have talent, but Rivers cost them a lot of games

[CR91]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Rivers said that 3 years ago when he was still in a "this is my team and I'm not close to retiring" mode. 

 

He's now without a team, and is on record saying he only wants to play 2 more years. If he's sincere about it only being 2 years, he knows mentoring might be a requirement to a new contract.

 

 

Or he goes to the bucs where there is no one to mentor. Evans, Godwin, Jones. Those are good pieces

[Rackeen305]

12 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Rivers is over the hill. Why do you wanna waste cap space

THANK GOD! No to Rivers. And anyone who wants him needs to answer, what makes you think that Rivers would do any better with a "less" talented team Colts than he has had his entire career with Chargers. Especially at his current age.

 

BTW he has never been a Kurt Werner kind of QB, so he cannot go to any team and make them Conf Championship contender.

[MikeCurtis]

12 hours ago, Superfly said:

He be a great bridge option, to sit a rookie for a year. Also, with the potential in getting the Colts back in the playoffs in 2020. 
 

His 2019 stats were not bad, minus the INT’s. 
 

What’s your plan? 

IMHO......

 

Two types of teams

 

Team 1.....  they have everything they need, EXCEPT for a QB

 

Team 2 ...... they are missing 4-5 pieces, and a QB MAY bring them to above average

 

If we were team 1...... I would be ALL IN on getting Rivers (Or another VET QB)

 

I believe that we fit team 2 status much more than team 1 status

 

In Rivers, I see a badly aging vet, who may win us 2 more games. rivers has said that he doesn’t want to help a young QB

 

Giving snaps to Rivers keeps us average another year.

 

We will need to address the long term QB situation.... WHICH MAY take 2-3 tries unfortunately

 

I would rather be below average one year while someone like Herbert, Love, Gordon, Eason, etc are taking snaps during the year

 

We need to get the young options in here for the future

 

 

 

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I wouldn’t read any interest in Mariotta as the Colts want him to replace Brissett as the starter.   I think we might have a level of interest as MM as the new backup replacing Hoyer.

 

Hard to see Ballard trying to sell Mariotta as our new starting quarterback.   Don’t see it. 

I will say that I think Ballard cares about the fans and how they feel.  He said that much in the end of year presser.  BUT...  I don't think he cares about who they think he should play or draft.  Everyone skinned him alive for drafting Darius Leonard in the 2nd round.  He didn't care, he knew better than everyone.  Having lived in Nashville for the entire Mariota era, I would take him.  Great leader, great worker and when he was healthy and had consistency in his offense, he was really good.

 

If he feels that drafting a QB at 13 is the best option, then he will do it.  I will say, I feel like I am seeing more and more national reporters saying they think he will sign a veteran for competition with JB and then maybe draft a qb late.  We are getting alot of reports that they like JB, but who knows...

 

THIS COULD ALL BE AN IRSAY AND BALLARD SMOKESCREEN, LOL!!!!

[EastStreet]

20 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Or he goes to the bucs where there is no one to mentor. Evans, Godwin, Jones. Those are good pieces

On a two year and done deal, you have to think any team will want some type of mentoring at minimum in the last year.

[CR91]

9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

On a two year and done deal, you have to think any team will want some type of mentoring at minimum in the last year.

 

Yes, but doesn't mean he will. QBs that are long in the tooth are only concerned about winning especially if they think they can still play.

[OffensivelyPC]

48 minutes ago, buccolts said:

O.K., so it's just the top two, at this point, unless someone pulls a Burrow.

And either of the top two could pull a Love.

 

The dream of what Kelly COULD be gets more attractive every month.

I'm in the camp that it's been 4 years.  How much longer does he need?  Every developmental prospect hanging on for dear life is another developmental prospect we could be missing out on.