Love at 13 or no?

[TimetobringDfence!]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Carr has always been my 1st choice since everyone has been talking about QB's in here for the last 2 months. I think he is above average and would fit our offense nicely. We have the O.Line to protect him. Is he Andrew Luck, NO but he is above average and an upgrade over JB. He is only 28 years old as well which is a huge key. A team could build the next 5-7 years around him. We would have to trade for him though. Raiders would probably want a couple of high draft picks.

I think Carr would do good. I think people are sleeping on Foles the Jags line sucked balls and he didnt get a fair shot. He was great with eagles and with Reich. He would light it up here in Indy. Even if he didnt he would be better than Burnt Briskett lol

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think most people know we need an upgrade at QB. I see now maybe a few people still wanting JB to start next season. 

 

To the OP's question it is a tough question to just say yes or no to Love at #13. I would say yes because I think he has a higher ceiling than JB and I like him better than Herbert and Tua, Having said that I would still rather trade for Carr or sign Rivers. I am just not a Herbert or Tua fan. Burrow is going #1 so he is out of the discussion.

The question is cut and dry, and basically limits by specificity. If you did run off polls pitting all the scenarios against each other to get a #1, and eliminated a lot of the noise, it would be closer to real world accuracy. 

 

We know that most by a pretty decent margin think QB is the biggest need, so this poll really doesn't tell us much (only about Love). Some want a FA, some want to draft. Some like this guy, some like that guy... Right now, given most predictions (who will be available, who takes who in front of us), Love is the most likely. 

 

 

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Im not saying our starter QB is getting drafted lol. But I know between Kelly or a FA sign on and improving the team by drafting a sure starter we can compete for the playoffs. Kelly is way better than people think and i like Carr or Foles behind our line.

I like Kelly and Carr too. My point was, you acted like a QB in the first was a poor gamble. 60+% for a starter and 42% for a pro-bowl guy, are pretty good odds compared to other rounds and positions. And being it's the most expensive position, it's even more important to draft so you get that 4-5 years of saving via cheap contract. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

The question is cut and dry, and basically limits by specificity. If you did run off polls pitting all the scenarios against each other to get a #1, and eliminated a lot of the noise, it would be closer to real world accuracy. 

 

We know that most by a pretty decent margin think QB is the biggest need, so this poll really doesn't tell us much (only about Love). Some want a FA, some want to draft. Some like this guy, some like that guy... Right now, given most predictions (who will be available, who takes who in front of us), Love is the most likely. 

 

 

IMO I still think JB played above average football in his 1st 7 games but he had enough stinkers to scare me away the last half of the season to want him back as a starter.

 

The Poll is only 26-17 in Love's favor. I didn't realize that many people in here didn't like Love. I like him better than Herbert and Tua's injuries just scare me off. I know this Carr, is definitely above average for his career. His W-L is bad but it is because he has played for some real crappy teams in Oakland. On the right team he can actually be good IMO. We have it here with our O.Line, scheme, and run game. Obviously we aren't going to find anyone in the very good or great category like Luck was unless we hit the lottery like KC did and Love turns out like Mahomes.

[TimetobringDfence!]

20 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I like Kelly and Carr too. My point was, you acted like a QB in the first was a poor gamble. 60+% for a starter and 42% for a pro-bowl guy, are pretty good odds compared to other rounds and positions. And being it's the most expensive position, it's even more important to draft so you get that 4-5 years of saving via cheap contract. 

Your right about the odds. I was off, but I dont think we need to reach for one in the first. Love was predicted in 2nd round and is moving up because qbs are needed. Its a week class. I hope we could find a team bonehead enough to take brissett off our hands or we are about to have an overpaid backup. 

[TimetobringDfence!]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I like Kelly and Carr too. My point was, you acted like a QB in the first was a poor gamble. 60+% for a starter and 42% for a pro-bowl guy, are pretty good odds compared to other rounds and positions. And being it's the most expensive position, it's even more important to draft so you get that 4-5 years of saving via cheap contract. 

Cheap Contract is a great point can't deny that. But will most 1st rounders agree to four or five years.

[Indeee]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

IMO I still think JB played above average football in his 1st 7 games but he had enough stinkers to scare me away the last half of the season to want him back as a starter.

 

The Poll is only 26-17 in Love's favor. I didn't realize that many people in here didn't like Love. I like him better than Herbert and Tua's injuries just scare me off. I know this Carr, is definitely above average for his career. His W-L is bad but it is because he has played for some real crappy teams in Oakland. On the right team he can actually be good IMO. We have it here with our O.Line, scheme, and run game. Obviously we aren't going to find anyone in the very good or great category like Luck was unless we hit the lottery like KC did and Love turns out like Mahomes.

I'm not sure it's a dislike for Love versus Not needing to draft a QB period, especially at 13. I don't like or dislike Love, I just don't want to use that pick on a QB. I personally think a DT or WR is more important. Heck, I want to come away with a DT and 2 WR's at 13, 34, and 44 respectively.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I'm not sure it's a dislike for Love versus Not needing to draft a QB period, especially at 13. I don't like or dislike Love, I just don't want to use that pick on a QB. I personally think a DT or WR is more important. Heck, I want to come away with a DT and 2 WR's at 13, 34, and 44 respectively.  

I gave you a LIKE because that is a fair post. We need a 3Tech and a WR, can't dispute that.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

No, Mahomes really isn't an outlier. He was a QB many thought was a 2nd round project. A team scouted him, did their due diligence, placed their bet, and their hard work paid off. A lot of QBs in the top 10 (stats) weren't drafted in the top 10, and many who were drafted top 10 were seen as reaches. It's all a gamble.

 

I'm not expecting Mahomes, but all the Love bashing is pretty funny. The kid obviously has talent and had a great combine. The same people would have been bashing Mahomes. And a good portion of those poo-pooing Love are singing from the JB fan club section. JB was incredibly underwhelming as a college prospect (Q the "he's a great leader" and "doesn't throw INTs" chorus lol). And some are just trying to hold on to any narrative that keeps JB as QB1.

Do u think Mahommes is the same player if he went to Clevlsnd or say Miami?  He has maybe the greatest  offensive mind , tight end and playmaker in the league. Its all about circumstances.

[WarGhost21]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

No, Mahomes really isn't an outlier. He was a QB many thought was a 2nd round project. A team scouted him, did their due diligence, placed their bet, and their hard work paid off. A lot of QBs in the top 10 (stats) weren't drafted in the top 10, and many who were drafted top 10 were seen as reaches. It's all a gamble.

 

I'm not expecting Mahomes, but all the Love bashing is pretty funny. The kid obviously has talent and had a great combine. The same people would have been bashing Mahomes. And a good portion of those poo-pooing Love are singing from the JB fan club section. JB was incredibly underwhelming as a college prospect (Q the "he's a great leader" and "doesn't throw INTs" chorus lol). And some are just trying to hold on to any narrative that keeps JB as QB1.

That is exactly what an outlier is. When most teams and draftnicks rate a guy that low, he’s drafted that highly, and then performs that well, that is an outlier. For every Mahomes you find like that, there are dozens of other QBs that are rated similarly that are overdrafted and bust. Personally, I don’t think JB is the answer, but neither is Love IMO. We need to complete the rest of the team with this draft and then next year bring in our QB in a much better year for the positions. The forum overall has convinced itself that the QBs this year are good because everyone doesn’t want JB back, but in all honesty it’s a mediocre class at the very best. Pick 13 on a mediocre QB when much better options are available is a mistake, no matter how high the value of QBs is. 

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

 

Love the fanpost (the article). Thanks for sharing it. 

[Fluke_33]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

The first round gives you a 63% chance of finding a starter.

 

The second round gives you a 27%

The colts should trade the 34th pick for the 32nd and take whatever qb is left.   They will increase the chance he becomes a starter by 36%!  (This is sarcastic)

[NFLfan]

40 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I gave you a LIKE because that is a fair post. We need a 3Tech and a WR, can't dispute that.

 

You will have a lot of opportunities to draft a good WR on day 2 or 3. Take a DT or QB in the first.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

You will have a lot of opportunities to draft a good WR on day 2 or 3. Take a DT or QB in the first.

Love may not even be there at #13. The league is so QB driven that Herbert, Tua, and Love all my go in the top 10. Burrow is going #1.

[NFLfan]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Love may not even be there at #13. The league is so QB driven that Herbert, Tua, and Love all my go in the top 10. Burrow is going #1.

 

Would you be in favor of giving up draft capital to move up to draft Love?

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

Would you be in favor of giving up draft capital to move up to draft Love?

It depends on what we do in Free Agency or if we trade for a QB. I can answer that better here in about 3 weeks. 

[Dingus McGirt]

Best part of next season will be watching these 'can't miss' rookie QBs struggle and bust.

 

[danlhart87]

5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Would you be in favor of giving up draft capital to move up to draft Love?

Yes.

Here's the way I see it:

 

We already know what to expect from Brissett and his potential is maxed out.

 

You might as well take a risk on someone.

 

Yes there's a chance you would have another Trubisky situation but could you just imagine the possibilities of Love or even Herbert turning into a franchise QB for years to come.

 

We aren't going anywhere but 8 - 8 with Brissett and I doubt we would be that bad with Love.

 

Draft Love even trade up if need be and have him sit and learn a year behind Rivers 1 year deal.

 

The kid has great potential but is very raw which is why so many hate the idea of taking him so high.

[Restored]

12 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Yes.

Here's the way I see it:

 

We already know what to expect from Brissett and his potential is maxed out.

 

You might as well take a risk on someone.

 

Yes there's a chance you would have another Trubisky situation but could you just imagine the possibilities of Love or even Herbert turning into a franchise QB for years to come.

 

We aren't going anywhere but 8 - 8 with Brissett and I doubt we would be that bad with Love.

 

Draft Love even trade up if need be and have him sit and learn a year behind Rivers 1 year deal.

 

The kid has great potential but is very raw which is why so many hate the idea of taking him so high.

 

I agree and to add to your point, the Colts may not be in this advantageous of a position next year either.

 

Right now, they are sitting at #13 and have an attractive second round pick as well to bargain with if need be. If they pass on a QB until next year, there is a chance that they finish higher than #13 with Brissett/Free Agent QB and also won't have that high second round pick.

 

Additionally, next year's draft looks to be different in terms of QB's so there's no guarantees you they'll get another shot at a possible franchise QB (Right now, it looks like Lawrence and Fields are the only really good ones but admittedly I haven't studied next year's class in-depth to say for sure)

 

If they are going to want to make a move for a QB, either at #13 or by moving up, this is the draft to do it.

[coltsfanatic24]

I think there will be better prospects available at 13. When you’re drafting as high as 13 you want more of a sure pick and drafting Love there is very risky. With everything we know so far I want Jerry Juedy with the 13th pick. 

[funktacious2]

Yes. We need a QB with franchise potential and Love has that upside. And if he is a miss we still have enough picks to get better this season.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

I think there will be better prospects available at 13. When you’re drafting as high as 13 you want more of a sure pick and drafting Love there is very risky. With everything we know so far I want Jerry Juedy with the 13th pick. 

So in your mind nobody should draft a QB in the top 15. Every player is a risk in the draft. There is no sure thing.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

38 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

I agree and to add to your point, the Colts may not be in this advantageous of a position next year either.

 

Right now, they are sitting at #13 and have an attractive second round pick as well to bargain with if need be. If they pass on a QB until next year, there is a chance that they finish higher than #13 with Brissett/Free Agent QB and also won't have that high second round pick.

 

Additionally, next year's draft looks to be different in terms of QB's so there's no guarantees you they'll get another shot at a possible franchise QB (Right now, it looks like Lawrence and Fields are the only really good ones but admittedly I haven't studied next year's class in-depth to say for sure)

 

If they are going to want to make a move for a QB, either at #13 or by moving up, this is the draft to do it.

Also what happens if AC only plays one more year. By getting a QB this draft that will allow us to get that tackle next year in the first round if he does.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

IMO I still think JB played above average football in his 1st 7 games but he had enough stinkers to scare me away the last half of the season to want him back as a starter.

 

The Poll is only 26-17 in Love's favor. I didn't realize that many people in here didn't like Love. I like him better than Herbert and Tua's injuries just scare me off. I know this Carr, is definitely above average for his career. His W-L is bad but it is because he has played for some real crappy teams in Oakland. On the right team he can actually be good IMO. We have it here with our O.Line, scheme, and run game. Obviously we aren't going to find anyone in the very good or great category like Luck was unless we hit the lottery like KC did and Love turns out like Mahomes.

I'm open to several scenarios. I just want change with a higher ceiling. Personally I think the best two options are Carr and Rivers/Love. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, EastStreet said:

I'm open to several scenarios. I just want change with a higher ceiling. Personally I think the best two options are Carr and Rivers/Love. 

To your 2 options, I agree 100%.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Your right about the odds. I was off, but I dont think we need to reach for one in the first. Love was predicted in 2nd round and is moving up because qbs are needed. Its a week class. I hope we could find a team bonehead enough to take brissett off our hands or we are about to have an overpaid backup. 

I would not be surprised if they simply cut JB. 

I don't think it's a weak class at all. I listed out the last 5 years in another thread, and his one is as good or better than 4 of the last 5. That fact that 4 QBs will likely go in the top 15 given all the FAs available, and that's not weak at all. The talking heads have all been complimentary of the top 4 post combine.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Cheap Contract is a great point can't deny that. But will most 1st rounders agree to four or five years.

all first rounders have a 5th year option. many are extended instead of invoking the 5th year, but it is baked in. 

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Do u think Mahommes is the same player if he went to Clevlsnd or say Miami?  He has maybe the greatest  offensive mind , tight end and playmaker in the league. Its all about circumstances.

Mahomes is absolutely a product of both his talent and circumstance. It's a big reason why I think a lot of rooks could succeed here. Good organization, good OL, good running game, etc.. Mahomes would have likely been ruined in a place like Cinci or Cleveland lol. Mayfield might have been Mahomes if he went to KC. 

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, WarGhost21 said:

That is exactly what an outlier is. When most teams and draftnicks rate a guy that low, he’s drafted that highly, and then performs that well, that is an outlier. For every Mahomes you find like that, there are dozens of other QBs that are rated similarly that are overdrafted and bust. Personally, I don’t think JB is the answer, but neither is Love IMO. We need to complete the rest of the team with this draft and then next year bring in our QB in a much better year for the positions. The forum overall has convinced itself that the QBs this year are good because everyone doesn’t want JB back, but in all honesty it’s a mediocre class at the very best. Pick 13 on a mediocre QB when much better options are available is a mistake, no matter how high the value of QBs is. 

Then this league has a lot of an outliers.... An outlier is something that doesn't happen often. He was part of the 42%, not part of the 40%.

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, EastStreet said:

Mahomes is absolutely a product of both his talent and circumstance. It's a big reason why I think a lot of rooks could succeed here. Good organization, good OL, good running game, etc.. Mahomes would have likely been ruined in a place like Cinci or Cleveland lol. Mayfield might have been Mahomes if he went to KC. 

I know a lot of people r leaning towards Love.  I just get the feeling that he is not Reichs type of a guy.  He wants a more traditional type of qb.  Just a gut feeling.  They have built a top 5 O line and running game.  I believe the type of qb they want will play within the system. Think Brissett but someone who can actually anticipate a throw.  I dont believe they  want someone who plays  off script  football. A qb that will play inside a well constructed O line.  Just me

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

The colts should trade the 34th pick for the 32nd and take whatever qb is left.   They will increase the chance he becomes a starter by 36%!  (This is sarcastic)

Now you're thinking!

[EastStreet]

47 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To your 2 options, I agree 100%.

I'd have a lot of hope in either situation, and honestly hope is 50% of the battle when you're a fan. 

[EastStreet]

31 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I know a lot of people r leaning towards Love.  I just get the feeling that he is not Reichs type of a guy.  He wants a more traditional type of qb.  Just a gut feeling.  They have built a top 5 O line and running game.  I believe the type of qb they want will play within the system. Think Brissett but someone who can actually anticipate a throw.  I dont believe they  want someone who plays  off script  football. A qb that will play inside a well constructed O line.  Just me

Love has all the measurables and skills to be a traditional type QB. Just because he has scramble ability doesn't mean he's an off-script QB. Love played in an air raid system, but that doesn't mean he's only and air raid QB. Mahomes played in an air raid system, but Reid is not only air raid.. With a good OL, a QB doesn't have to play outside the system. 

 

And I think it's silly to assume what Reich wants. He inherited Rivers in LAC and played within McCoy's system prior to being fired. Then played within Pederson's system in Philly for two years and didn't call plays. If anything, it could be Ballard who is dictating system, and he's an Andy Reid fan.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Ballard says what he loves about Reich is he is flexible. Reich will take any QB we draft successful within the system and play to his strengths. Both have stated numerous times what they are looking for.  

[Four2itus]

4 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

The forum overall has convinced itself that the QBs this year are good because everyone doesn’t want JB back, but in all honesty it’s a mediocre class at the very best. Pick 13 on a mediocre QB when much better options are available is a mistake, no matter how high the value of QBs is. 

 

5 hours ago, Indeee said:

I'm not sure it's a dislike for Love versus Not needing to draft a QB period, especially at 13. I don't like or dislike Love, I just don't want to use that pick on a QB. I personally think a DT or WR is more important. Heck, I want to come away with a DT and 2 WR's at 13, 34, and 44 respectively.  

Preach it. Well said....both of you. 

[DougDew]

It matters who else is there, but at this point, over a month away:

 

If Herbert is there, then NO.

 

If Wirfs is there, then probably NO.

 

The DT situation needs to get clearer.

[Rackeen305]

15 hours ago, EastStreet said:

like Mahomes.... 

 

15 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

Not at 13. If he isn’t there later, so be it, but 13 is so high for a player who has so many issues and grades out as a 2nd round caliber prospect

 

17 hours ago, Stephen said:

He won't  be there

I just dont understand folks. They want John Elway, Andrew Luck of a QB to fall to the 32nd pick in the first round and run up to the potium grinning, ozing with getty like they know something the other 31 teams doesn't.

 

Then personality wise, The player needs to be voice full. (Side note) And the "RB" needs to be thickly built, can hit the homerun, catch out the back field, and pass block. More importantly is that if Colts were to sign said player, it's only if it's a team friendly deal. Otherwise we've just over spent for the mentioned qualities that 85% of the league don't have in 1 player.

 

"We just found Brady 2.0 with the 32 pick". And no one knew it.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

I just dont understand folks. They want John Elway, Andrew Luck of a QB to fall to the 32nd pick in the first round and run up to the potium grinning, ozing with getty like they know something the other 31 teams doesn't.

 

Then personality wise, The player needs to be voice full. (Side note) And the "RB" needs to be thickly built, can hit the homerun, catch out the back field, and pass block. More importantly is that if Colts were to sign said player, it's only if it's a team friendly deal. Otherwise we've just over spent for the mentioned qualities that 85% of the league don't have in 1 player.

 

"We just found Brady 2.0 with the 32 pick". And no one knew it.

Most want to take a QB early. A few voices are playing the "take a QB later" tune, when what they really should just say is that they don't want to displace JB. Some others just have irrational expectations and think perfect no-brainer QB prospects grow on trees, instead of being partly a product of development and landing spot.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

It doesn't matter where you take him IF YOU THINK HE'S A LEGITIMATE FRANCHISE QB PROSPECT. 

AT 13 or trade up to get him but DEFINITELY NOT wait for later rounds to get him if you like him.

[stitches]