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BleedBlue4Shoe86

Colts on Jacoby and QB position

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12 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I was listening to Stephen Holder and Zak Keefer and they said something that really clicked for me.  It was something that Ballard mentioned.  In his presser for the combine, when asked about Jacoby and the QB position, he stated, " that this has really taken on a life of its own" and then he went on to defend JB a little, as much as he could.  I say all this to repeat what has been said over and over...

 

I truly believe that the front office is okay starting JB next year, if they can't find what they feel is an upgrade.  It is important that we understand the difference between what we think is an upgrade (Rivers, Carr, Foles, Love, Hurts, Gordon) and what Ballard and company feel is an upgrade.  I think us as fans have twisted the narrative a little and placed all the blame on JB for the previous year and going 7-9.  Was he great/good, no, but was it all his fault, no.  Even Irsay said that JB is young and that he needs more time to develop.  Heck he quoted Peyton and how he was 3-13 his rookie season and then 6-10 in his 4th season.  Then you also have Darius Leonard on FS1 talking about how they follow JB and that they can win with him.

 

I say all this to say that I think we have really gone a little crazy on this board and feel that anyone and everyone is an upgrade to JB.  I don't think the Colts feel that way and I believe that JB will be the started in 2020.  That being said, I don't know who the backup will be.  It could be Love, Hurts, Kelly or Hoyer.  That is what makes this stuff fun. 

 

Just remember, this is a game and we all follow this team because we love them, lets not that overboard and lets enjoy the ride the next few months.

 

No matter which rookie QB we draft, most of us here believe JB will start in 2020. Beyond 2020, it is anyone's guess. The only way it will be different is if a veteran QB like Rivers is started. A rookie QB will still be drafted, regardless of whether JB or a veteran QB starts in 2020.

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6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

No matter which rookie QB we draft, most of us here believe JB will start in 2020. Beyond 2020, it is anyone's guess. The only way it will be different is if a veteran QB like Rivers is started. A rookie QB will still be drafted, regardless of whether JB or a veteran QB starts in 2020.

I fully agree.  I think the biggest question is what round we draft a QB?  Is it high round or mid round.

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8 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I fully agree.  I think the biggest question is what round we draft a QB?  Is it high round or mid round.

 

Round 1 or 2 IMO, whoever we are interested in among those available. I seriously doubt we draft a QB if we get into Day 3 and haven't drafted one yet.

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IMO, when you sit as high in an organization as Ballard does, you don't go off and change previous decisions because of one year.  Ballard signed JB to starters money for two years and I think that decision will stand, if JB is still on the team after draft day.

 

Ballard is looking at the QB situation from the perspective of the 2021 season, not 2020, IMO.  Even if JB was the guy, CB still could not count on JB to be the starter in 2021 because he would have to tackle the big issue of contract, and who knows where that would lead.

 

He's looking at QB this draft because of the contract situation of his starter as much as anything, IMO.

 

Now, if an opportunity arises to upgrade the QB position at a reasonable cost, like trading up for Herbert or trading for Carr, then he pulls the trigger with the idea that the new guy will start next season.  That's why I said above "if JB is still on the team after draft day".  If this upgrade opportunity doesn't happen by draft day, JB is the starter next season.

 

That's why I don't think signing Rivers makes much sense.  CB would not changing anything significant about his future QB needs or how he would approach the draft.  There is only two minor things that makes it sensible, IMO: 1, The Colts get incrementally better play from the QB position next year than with JB.  Sorry, I don't think that what Rivers can deliver at this point will lead us to a materially different W-L record.  2.  CB can draft his Qb of the future without his starting QB looking over his shoulder or the locker room taking sides, which might happen if CB drafts Love when JB still wants a starting job in the NFL.  (And the side-taking would be worse if CB drafted Fromm with JB still the 2020 starter, for some very bad reasons).  With Rivers, he's probably out of the NFL after his contract so the locker room is settled on the present and future with no reason to take a favorite of one over the other. 

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11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Round 1 or 2 IMO, whoever we are interested in among those available. I seriously doubt we draft a QB if we get into Day 3 and haven't drafted one yet.

I think round 1 is only if we take Love at 13.  I think round 2 gets a little interesting.  You could do Eason, Fromm, Hurts or Gordon. 

 

What are your thoughts.

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I think JB should be and will be the starter next season. This draft has some great talent at all of our positions of need, from DT to WR to even CB. If we fill up on those positions, I could see the team skipping out on going after a rookie QB and waiting until next years class, which is as good, if not better than, this class. With highly touted names like Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields, there is some top tier talent available. Even if we can't get one of them, you still have Kellen Mond and Jamie Newman who should be pretty good QB prospects. I think there is a decent chance that we could go that route, no matter what the fans think.

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5 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

I think JB should be and will be the starter next season. This draft has some great talent at all of our positions of need, from DT to WR to even CB. If we fill up on those positions, I could see the team skipping out on going after a rookie QB and waiting until next years class, which is as good, if not better than, this class. With highly touted names like Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields, there is some top tier talent available. Even if we can't get one of them, you still have Kellen Mond and Jamie Newman who should be pretty good QB prospects. I think there is a decent chance that we could go that route, no matter what the fans think.

 

Don't forget Tanner Morgan of Minnesota, we will find out if 2019 was a 1 year wonder thing with him or not. One more such year in 2020 and he will be a Top 15 pick, IMO.

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2 minutes ago, CantBeStopped said:

Personally I think the best route is signing rivers, drafting our future at 13 and cutting ties with JB. He has shown no improvement going into year 4. He is what he is. Rivers could come in and give us at minimum what jb does. He'd have the best oline he's had his entire career. And I'd rather have the future learning from a guy that's potentially going to the HOF over a guy that can't read a defense

the only thing I don't get is why everyone wants a 38 year old QB that turns the ball over alot.  Also, are we all forgetting that Rivers has said that he has no interest in grooming his replacement.

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17 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Don't forget Tanner Morgan of Minnesota, we will find out if 2019 was a 1 year wonder thing with him or not. One more such year in 2020 and he will be a Top 15 pick, IMO.

Or Sam Ehlinger of Texas.  Some say he's a Tebow runner but his passing stats are pretty impressive.  Every TX game I've seen where a clutch play was needed, he generally made it, and made a lot of them with his arm and not his legs.

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6 minutes ago, CantBeStopped said:

Personally I think the best route is signing rivers, drafting our future at 13 and cutting ties with JB. He has shown no improvement going into year 4. He is what he is. Rivers could come in and give us at minimum what jb does. He'd have the best oline he's had his entire career. And I'd rather have the future learning from a guy that's potentially going to the HOF over a guy that can't read a defense


Great post!

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1 hour ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

 

I say all this to say that I think we have really gone a little crazy on this board and feel that anyone and everyone is an upgrade to J

i dont see that at all

 

i see lots of people that like different things though.  i think there are 4-5 QBs or more in the draft that could be better 

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56 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

the only thing I don't get is why everyone wants a 38 year old QB that turns the ball over alot.  Also, are we all forgetting that Rivers has said that he has no interest in grooming his replacement.

I don’t get why people want Brissett starting at QB next year. We’ve seen what talent he brings for two years now. Also don’t understand the point in waiting until next year if Ballard feels good about a QB this year. Everyone says next years class is better, that’s a big IF. Fields or lawerence is a dream. You don’t want to pay the price to trade up for tua, it’s going to be double the price for one of those next year. 

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I don't really think anyone is blaming JB for losing games...at least not moreso than other areas that have been blamed. And just like those areas...WR...interior DL...we want to see some upgrades next season.

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1 hour ago, CantBeStopped said:

Personally I think the best route is signing rivers, drafting our future at 13 and cutting ties with JB. He has shown no improvement going into year 4. He is what he is. Rivers could come in and give us at minimum what jb does. He'd have the best oline he's had his entire career. And I'd rather have the future learning from a guy that's potentially going to the HOF over a guy that can't read a defense

Agreed. Let's face it. The Brissett era in Indy is over. Rivers may be nearing the end of his career, but he would be a huge improvement over JB. I can certainly see the Colts taking Rivers on a two-year deal, drafting Eason with that #34 pick, and letting him back up Rivers, while keeping Kelly as a potential backup in case disaster strikes. As far as FA/trade QB options I would consider a trade for Carr or picking up Tannehill (if the Titans can't come to terms with him) as the only two real options if they can't work a deal with Rivers. 

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Rivers                                                              Brissett

2019 Chargers                                             2019 Colts

66.0 completion percentage             60.9 completion percentage

4,615 passing yards                            2,942 passing yards

23 touchdowns                                    18 Touchdowns

20 interceptions                                  6 Interceptions

88.5 passer rating                               88.0 Passer rating

38 years old                                         27 years old

 

These stats are basically identical.  Rivers is not an upgrade.  He has also stated that he does not want to mentor anyone.

 

https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2017/03/26/chargers-philip-rivers-isnt-my-job-to-coddle-a-young-qb/

 

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2 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Rivers                                                              Brissett

2019 Chargers                                             2019 Colts

66.0 completion percentage             60.9 completion percentage

4,615 passing yards                            2,942 passing yards

23 touchdowns                                    18 Touchdowns

20 interceptions                                  6 Interceptions

88.5 passer rating                               88.0 Passer rating

38 years old                                         27 years old

 

These stats are basically identical.  Rivers is not an upgrade.  He has also stated that he does not want to mentor anyone.

 

https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2017/03/26/chargers-philip-rivers-isnt-my-job-to-coddle-a-young-qb/

 

 

Those stats are actually not very identical at all with the exception of passer rating.

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

Those stats are actually not very identical at all with the exception of passer rating.

Sorry your right, Rivers threw the ball 591 times compared to JB throwing it 447 times.  That is an additional 144 passes for Rivers.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Those stats are actually not very identical at all with the exception of passer rating.

I actually read it 3 times to see if I had missed something.    They are not even close 

 

I heard somewhere maybe here maybe NFLN . That Rivers worst yr of his career is a lot better than JB's best.

 

I don't like Rivers, I never have.   He is definitely a better QB, and we have the oline to give him the time to make better decisions/throws    but like others have said  it's just a bandaid approach for a yr or 2.

 

Hell I don't know, maybe they really do believe they have something in Kelly.  That hurt to type out BTW 

 

I also think it depends on who falls to us.  Of course CB is not going to say anything negative about JB.  For one the team loves him and he doesn't want to upset anyone, and if he ends up staying here and JB balls out he's not going to want to hear another HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW quote like Kurt Cousins did to his GM

 

 

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Blue, it seems like this is about the 20th post you have made and it very clear that you are a huge JB fan. But post after post is not going to convince the fans that don't think JB is a franchise QB that he is that guy. Will he start first game in 2020? None of us know. Is he the future of this franchise? My opinion is no and 10 more posts trying to convince me won't help. If you are convince he is, please let it play out and then if he is I will gladly eat crow!

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I don't think most fans here think JB will be a Colt in 2020 after the draft/FA. It's at least evenly split. 

And I can't imagine why we'd want more JB to be blunt.

 

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2 hours ago, CantBeStopped said:

Personally I think the best route is signing rivers, drafting our future at 13 and cutting ties with JB. He has shown no improvement going into year 4. He is what he is. Rivers could come in and give us at minimum what jb does. He'd have the best oline he's had his entire career. And I'd rather have the future learning from a guy that's potentially going to the HOF over a guy that can't read a defense

 

As much as I dislike Rivers (still mad about getting flipped off by him in the RCA Dome) I agree with this 100%.

 

At least Rivers can lead receivers and throw them open. I just will not enjoy looking at his face every week. 

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28 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Blue, it seems like this is about the 20th post you have made and it very clear that you are a huge JB fan. But post after post is not going to convince the fans that don't think JB is a franchise QB that he is that guy. Will he start first game in 2020? None of us know. Is he the future of this franchise? My opinion is no and 10 more posts trying to convince me won't help. If you are convince he is, please let it play out and then if he is I will gladly eat crow!

You are right, I am a JB fan.  But if you look through my posts there are definitely QBs in the draft that I like (Love, Hurts, Gordon) and I like Carr alot as well. 

 

My posts are more about the fact that it seems that alot of Colts fans think anyone would be better and that we have to get rid of JB.  Just think it is a little unfair.  Everyone telling me to let it play out, should follow your advice and let it play out when it comes to JB possibly being the starter again in 2020.

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54 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Those stats are actually not very identical at all with the exception of passer rating.

I agree.   Also consider that Rivers had the 5th shortest time to throw and JB had the 2nd most.  

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1st I'm not a JB fan .    I LMAO when there were people saying we could get a 1st for him.  You all know who you are.

 

BUT.    JB went into camp last yr thinking he was the backup.  Yes he took the majority of the snaps, But he was practicing an offense made for Andrew.  So it wasn't playing to his strengths.  He wasn't gonna tell Frank, Hey this works better for me etc

 

With a full training camp designed to use his strengths,  it might be an entirely different outcome.   Before injury, while he wasn't lighting up the stats, he played well enough to win some games.  Add in the AV situation and instead of 5-2 we could have been 6-1 or 7-0 

 

Then the injury.  Not only to him but to TY Funch and Ebrons brain injury etc

 

The Owner, FO and coaches have all had praise for him. Irsay said he needs more time to develop.

 

OK . here is a theory.  A possibility.  a hunch 

 

They bring in Rivers for a yr or two and allow JB to develop more.    Face it, he never in his wildest dreams figured he'd be the starting QB for the Colts with AL on the team.

 

Now he can prepare to be the starter in the future.

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

1st I'm not a JB fan .    I LMAO when there were people saying we could get a 1st for him.  You all know who you are.

 

BUT.    JB went into camp last yr thinking he was the backup.  Yes he took the majority of the snaps, But he was practicing an offense made for Andrew.  So it wasn't playing to his strengths.  He wasn't gonna tell Frank, Hey this works better for me etc

 

With a full training camp designed to use his strengths,  it might be an entirely different outcome.   Before injury, while he wasn't lighting up the stats, he played well enough to win some games.  Add in the AV situation and instead of 5-2 we could have been 6-1 or 7-0 

 

Then the injury.  Not only to him but to TY Funch and Ebrons brain injury etc

 

The Owner, FO and coaches have all had praise for him. Irsay said he needs more time to develop.

 

OK . here is a theory.  A possibility.  a hunch 

 

They bring in Rivers for a yr or two and allow JB to develop more.    Face it, he never in his wildest dreams figured he'd be the starting QB for the Colts with AL on the team.

 

Now he can prepare to be the starter in the future.

 

 

 

 

I can believe alot of what you are saying except the Rivers part.  If they bring in a veteran starter, JB is gone.

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4 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I fully agree.  I think the biggest question is what round we draft a QB?  Is it high round or mid round.

I like fromm In 3rd 

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I find this whole debate wearisome. No matter what side one is on, in regards to Jacoby, one can find reasons to discount, or support him. Just because it seems obvious that one should feel a certain way, doesn't make it so. 

 

I see a commonly used observation, that doesn't hold water for me. It's the "He's had 2 years a a starter" phrase. Of course has has been the starter for two years. However, in the first one, he literally came to the team and was thrust into a no win situation, where he is playing without even close to the amount of time needed to learn the playbook...and had to function behind a failing o-line. It was a challenge that many would have fared far worse in. Then, he again gets thrust into the role at the last minute, with the installed offenses tailored (As mentioned above) to another QB. On top of that, he not only dealt with his own injury, but .....if I am not mistaken.....with the historically worst WR injury season I can remember as a Colt fan. 

 

So in the end, Jacoby may not make it as a starter for the Colts in the long run. but that cannot be absolutely determined at this time. It seems there are so many fans who are so sure that the Colts will start another QB next season, they are practically tipping over at the starting line in anticipation. 

 

As a fan of this team, I WANT to see another year of Jacoby under center. The man has earned it, and frankly, I think he will deliver a solid year for the team. Even after that if the Colts decide to move on from him at that point, his value will double if he has the year I think he will. 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

So even though I oppose it, what happened to Jacoby if we actually do bring in rivers? Do we cut him, trade him, or keep him?


Why in the world would any team trade for a bad QB, with his contract? 
 

If the Colts sign a veteran like Rivers, he will be released. 

 

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4 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I fully agree.  I think the biggest question is what round we draft a QB?  Is it high round or mid round.


Yeah, I disagree.  I could easily see Ballard failing to draft one.  If they think JB could pick up where he left off after the first six games, they like Kelly (which they do), and there’s nothing in this  class of QBs (after the top three) that we’re inspired by (Love, Eason, Fromm, Hurts - it’s a poor group IMO), he may not draft one.  Wouldn’t surprise me at all...

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4 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I think round 1 is only if we take Love at 13.  I think round 2 gets a little interesting.  You could do Eason, Fromm, Hurts or Gordon. 

 

What are your thoughts.

They’ll move up and get Herbert

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13 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I find this whole debate wearisome. No matter what side one is on, in regards to Jacoby, one can find reasons to discount, or support him. Just because it seems obvious that one should feel a certain way, doesn't make it so. 

 

I see a commonly used observation, that doesn't hold water for me. It's the "He's had 2 years a a starter" phrase. Of course has has been the starter for two years. However, in the first one, he literally came to the team and was thrust into a no win situation, where he is playing without even close to the amount of time needed to learn the playbook...and had to function behind a failing o-line. It was a challenge that many would have fared far worse in. Then, he again gets thrust into the role at the last minute, with the installed offenses tailored (As mentioned above) to another QB. On top of that, he not only dealt with his own injury, but .....if I am not mistaken.....with the historically worst WR injury season I can remember as a Colt fan. 

 

So in the end, Jacoby may not make it as a starter for the Colts in the long run. but that cannot be absolutely determined at this time. It seems there are so many fans who are so sure that the Colts will start another QB next season, they are practically tipping over at the starting line in anticipation. 

 

As a fan of this team, I WANT to see another year of Jacoby under center. The man has earned it, and frankly, I think he will deliver a solid year for the team. Even after that if the Colts decide to move on from him at that point, his value will double if he has the year I think he will. 

 

 

You are entitled to your opinion as we all are.  

Nothing Jacoby has done makes me think he will have a good season.   He took all the first team reps through training camp and preseason so he should have been ready.   Unfortunately he looked like he did every season including college.  He has not improved.   His flaws are the same which leads me to believe he is what he is.  A very good backup QB and a below average starter.   

If he starts, I will be pulling for him and hoping I was wrong.

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4 hours ago, CantBeStopped said:

Personally I think the best route is signing rivers, drafting our future at 13 and cutting ties with JB. He has shown no improvement going into year 4. He is what he is. Rivers could come in and give us at minimum what jb does. He'd have the best oline he's had his entire career. And I'd rather have the future learning from a guy that's potentially going to the HOF over a guy that can't read a defense

I agree with you and nothing is going to change my mind.

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21 minutes ago, Superfly said:


Why in the world would any team trade for a bad QB, with his contract? 
 

If the Colts sign a veteran like Rivers, he will be released. 

 

Agreed. Plus you'd have 0 leverage in a trade situation when every team would know JB has been replaced and has next to no value as a Colt. 

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4 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

the only thing I don't get is why everyone wants a 38 year old QB that turns the ball over alot.  Also, are we all forgetting that Rivers has said that he has no interest in grooming his replacement.

For the record I don't want Rivers. I want JB and Kelly, with Hoyer hitting the highway. I truly believe Kelly is the guy and feel that if he doesn't beat JB out in training camp then at some point he gets his due when JB and the passing offense struggles. Focus on Drafting DT and WRs this season. 

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1 hour ago, WifiGuy said:

1st I'm not a JB fan .    I LMAO when there were people saying we could get a 1st for him.  You all know who you are.

 

BUT.    JB went into camp last yr thinking he was the backup.  Yes he took the majority of the snaps, But he was practicing an offense made for Andrew.  So it wasn't playing to his strengths.  He wasn't gonna tell Frank, Hey this works better for me etc

 

With a full training camp designed to use his strengths,  it might be an entirely different outcome.   Before injury, while he wasn't lighting up the stats, he played well enough to win some games.  Add in the AV situation and instead of 5-2 we could have been 6-1 or 7-0 

 

Then the injury.  Not only to him but to TY Funch and Ebrons brain injury etc

 

The Owner, FO and coaches have all had praise for him. Irsay said he needs more time to develop.

 

OK . here is a theory.  A possibility.  a hunch 

 

They bring in Rivers for a yr or two and allow JB to develop more.    Face it, he never in his wildest dreams figured he'd be the starting QB for the Colts with AL on the team.

 

Now he can prepare to be the starter in the future.

 

 

 

 

To your point on signing Rivers and allow JB to groom a couple more years. They cant. JB has been here for now 4 or 5 years already, I forget. They cannot keep him based on his mental aspect of taking backseat to another more established QB alone. JB, even tho never admit it, would realize he is nothing more than a backup. That's why you can't keep him if a Vet QB is signed. JB and Kelly should go into season as only QBs on Colts roster this year and you get somebody with no threat to unseat either to practice squad stuff, like signing an undrafted QB after the draft is over. 

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