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This was really good. Some surprising stuff about burrow and why he could struggle in the league. 

 

 

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On 2/21/2020 at 5:41 PM, Chloe6124 said:

 

Gotta be Arians and the Bucs lol.

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1 minute ago, Defjamz26 said:

Gotta be Arians and the Bucs lol.

Yep... there have been rumors that Eason is the player they will target if they are going to draft a QB. He's very Arians-ish QB. 

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One of many YouTube draft prognosticators had us taking Eason because his weakness is pressure and we have a good Oline. Makes sense but if hat is definitely not a good trait and would need to be worked on.

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48 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Gotta be Arians and the Bucs lol.

Yeah. But that rumor  I saw said colts are high on Eason. Hmm. I would question ballard if he skipped on Love and took Eason at 13. Unless Love is gone. Eason doesn’t do much with his legs and Ballard and Reich said they want that in a QB.

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yeah. But that rumor  I saw said colts are high on Eason. Hmm. I would question ballard if he skipped on Love and took Eason at 13. Unless Love is gone. Eason doesn’t do much with his legs and Ballard and Reich said they want that in a QB.

Question  Ballard on Love. But why?  For all we know he maybe rated as a second day pick or the best qb in the draft. We r going to have to wait till draft to see how much he is truly valued.

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On 2/21/2020 at 3:19 PM, Chloe6124 said:

This was really good. Some surprising stuff about burrow and why he could struggle in the league. 

 

 

I am on record as saying Burrrow will struggle.  All the talk is that Burrow may pull an Eli.  Maybe just maybe the Bengals may not value him that much.  I just think he has had  a prefect season; one season in his collegiate career albeit.  LSU's starting players will most likely all be drafted.  Everything lined up for Burrowa this year and I dont see that happening again.

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7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Question  Ballard on Love. But why?  For all we know he maybe rated as a second day pick or the best qb in the draft. We r going to have to wait till draft to see how much he is truly valued.

Because I just don’t see Eason having much upside. The strong arm only gets you so far. Look at how strong Brissett arm is. I would take a above average arm over a super strong arm any day if the strong arm can’t handle pressure and has bad decision making.  I want a QB that can go off script when things break down. To be honest Herbert isn’t that great off script either. He also doesn’t have the touch and anticipation of love. I would rather take Love who already has those skills and have coaching help him make better decisions. Much easier to coach a kid into being smarter who already has the tools then taking someone and trying to develop the tools. Love is already a natural thrower. While guys like Herbert try and guide the ball.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Because I just don’t see Eason having much upside. The strong arm only gets you so far. Look at how strong Brissett arm is. I would take a above average arm over a super strong arm any day if the strong arm can’t handle pressure and has bad decision making.  I want a QB that can go off script when things break down. To be honest Herbert isn’t that great off script either. He also doesn’t have the touch and anticipation of love. I would rather take Love who already has those skills and have coaching help him make better decisions. Much easier to coach a kid into being smarter who already has the tools then taking someone and trying to develop the tools.

I think people are caughtcup in the Mahommes comparions

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7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think people are caughtcup in the Mahommes comparions

I really don’t care about the Mahomes comparison.  The nice thing about Love is he has everything. All he needs is the right coach and for the teams to find out in interviews how smart he is and his leadership abilities.  It’s much easier to develop a QB who already has the tools.  From every article I have read he is a hard worker and is a football junkie.  I have a feeling he will impress in interviews and seal the deal for a lot of teams. Because so many of us really want him we probably won’t get him lol. 

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Just now, Chloe6124 said:

I really don’t care about the Mahomes comparison.  The nice thing about Love is he has everything. All he needs is the right coach and for the teams to find out in interviews how smart he is and his leadership abilities.  It’s much easier to develop a QB who already has the tools.  From every article I have read he is a hard worker and is a football junkie.  I have a feeling he will impress in interviews and seal the deal for a lot of teams. Because so many of us really want him we probably won’t get him lol. 

I dont believe Love has everything or close to it.  If he did, he would b in the discussion as the top pick in the draft based on his physical tools.  One of us will proven right or wrong after the draft. 

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I dont believe Love has everything or close to it.  If he did, he would b in the discussion as the top pick in the draft based on his physical tools.  One of us will proven right or wrong after the draft. 

Anticipation, touch, tight window throws. You can’t teach that. He is a natural.  TUA and Burrow are the only other two to have those attributes.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Anticipation, touch, tight window throws. You can’t teach that. He is a natural.  TUA and Burrow are the only other two to have those attributes.

And the turnovers??  U see when Love does all the right things it is becsuse of his phenomenal tool set. When things go wrong, it is because of the lack of talent and coaching around him. I always thought that franchise qbs r able to rise above above lack of talent and coaching??

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2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

And the turnovers??  U see when Love does all the right things it is becsuse of his phenomenal tool set. When things go wrong, it is because of the lack of talent and coaching around him. I always thought that franchise qbs r able to rise above above lack of talent and coaching??

I really don’t care about the turnovers from his last season. He only had 12 combined his first two seasons. It is easily explained. A good coach that teaches smarter decision making will help him with that. That can be coached. The other things can’t.

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I really don’t care about the turnovers from his last season. He only had 12 combined his first two seasons. It is easily explained. A good coach that teaches smarter decision making will help him with that. That can be coached. The other things can’t.

So why dont we just go after Winston???? He is a turnover machine but Reich can coach that out of him. Winston has all the tools

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Ballard is just waiting for the XFL season to be over, then he will sign that PJ Walker guy.

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4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

So why dont we just go after Winston???? He is a turnover machine but Reich can coach that out of him. Winston has all the tools

I wouldn’t be opposed to Winston on something like a two year deal. Like it was posted in the other thread Winston had no problem with INT when he had the right coach. Arians air attack doesn’t help.

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38 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

And the turnovers??  U see when Love does all the right things it is becsuse of his phenomenal tool set. When things go wrong, it is because of the lack of talent and coaching around him. I always thought that franchise qbs r able to rise above above lack of talent and coaching??

How do do you think Tua and Burrow would look at Utah State, with all 2 and 3 star talent, instead of 4 and 5 star talent. And with that 2 and 3 star talent, all new starters last season and your best WR is a grad transfer who couldn't win the starting job at Utah. 

 

It's very disingenuous to discount 2018 and not take into account what Love's situation in 2019.  

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

How do do you think Tua and Burrow would look at Utah State, with all 2 and 3 star talent, instead of 4 and 5 star talent. And with that 2 and 3 star talent, all new starters last season and your best WR is a grad transfer who couldn't win the starting job at Utah. 

 

It's very disingenuous to discount 2018 and not take into account what Love's situation in 2019.  

Tua and Burrows,????  How would they play with Utah  State with what u call 2 to 3 star talent???  Well I would expect them to crush it because they would b playing against 2 to 3 star talent. That being said I am not so high on Burrows on Tua.

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Tua and Burrows,????  How would they play with Utah  State with what u call 2 to 3 star talent???  Well I would expect them to crush it because they would b playing against 2 to 3 star talent. That being said I am not so high on Burrows on Tua.

Not sure if you follow football recruiting, but I follow it very closely. Utah State gets CFL level of talent (not even XFL lol), while teams like LSU, Bama, etc. get NFL talent for comparison. 

 

Here's USt, LSU, and Bama's recruits signees for the current period (note the individual players national ranks). And below that are the schools ranking... Bama and LSU are ranked 2nd and 4th in the country in talent. Utah State is 117th. And sorry, Tua/Burrow don't automatically crush it when they have a horrible OL and bad skill position players (their WRs were in the 4.6 and 4.7s lol). Put either of those QBs on a team with a bad OL and they would look very diferent. 

 

And that's not even factoring in that 9 out of 11 starters were brand new. And the only other returning starter didn't start the whole year in 2018 (injury sub).

 

https://247sports.com/college/utah-state/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

https://247sports.com/college/lsu/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Not sure if you follow football recruiting, but I follow it very closely. Utah State gets CFL level of talent (not even XFL lol), while teams like LSU, Bama, etc. get NFL talent for comparison. 

 

Here's USt, LSU, and Bama's recruits signees for the current period (note the individual players national ranks). And below that are the schools ranking... Bama and LSU are ranked 2nd and 4th in the country in talent. Utah State is 117th. And sorry, Tua/Burrow don't automatically crush it when they have a horrible OL and bad skill position players (their WRs were in the 4.6 and 4.7s lol). Put either of those QBs on a team with a bad OL and they would look very diferent. 

 

And that's not even factoring in that 9 out of 11 starters were brand new. And the only other returning starter didn't start the whole year in 2018 (injury sub).

 

https://247sports.com/college/utah-state/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

https://247sports.com/college/lsu/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

I believe there is almost a cult following on this board when it comes to Love and his true value.  I guess we will have to wait till draft  day.

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Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

I believe there is almost a cult following on this board when it comes to Love and his true value.  I guess we will have to wait till draft  day.

I'd rather have several others than Love (both draft and FA).

I just think the Love hate based on 2019 INTs is shallow.

 

If you want to see some ugly college stats, take a look at Brett Favre's... 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html

 

 

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25 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'd rather have several others than Love (both draft and FA).

I just think the Love hate based on 2019 INTs is shallow.

 

If you want to see some ugly college stats, take a look at Brett Favre's... 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html

 

 

And Favre was drafted in the 2nd round.  We can go back and forth but the draft will settle everything.  Lets chat again at that time.  I am not basing the 2019 season on where Love should b drafted.  It comes into play but I also thinl calling  him thr nexr Mahommes is a little silly.

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7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

And Favre was drafted in the 2nd round.  We can go back and forth but the draft will settle everything.  Lets chat again at that time.  I am not basing the 2019 season on where Love should b drafted.  It comes into play but I also thinl calling  him thr nexr Mahommes is a little silly.

I don't see him as the next Mahomes. I didn't see Mahomes as Mahomes though.

Favre was 33rd overall, so about as close as you can be to the 1st. Very high for those stats.

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On 2/23/2020 at 6:47 PM, EastStreet said:

Not sure if you follow football recruiting, but I follow it very closely. Utah State gets CFL level of talent (not even XFL lol), while teams like LSU, Bama, etc. get NFL talent for comparison. 

 

Here's USt, LSU, and Bama's recruits signees for the current period (note the individual players national ranks). And below that are the schools ranking... Bama and LSU are ranked 2nd and 4th in the country in talent. Utah State is 117th. And sorry, Tua/Burrow don't automatically crush it when they have a horrible OL and bad skill position players (their WRs were in the 4.6 and 4.7s lol). Put either of those QBs on a team with a bad OL and they would look very diferent. 

 

And that's not even factoring in that 9 out of 11 starters were brand new. And the only other returning starter didn't start the whole year in 2018 (injury sub).

 

https://247sports.com/college/utah-state/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

https://247sports.com/college/lsu/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

That is true Utah state does not get the recruits and SEC school will get.  But that was as true in 2018 as it was in 2019.  So since he put up big numbers in 2018 and not in 2019 you cannot blame the recruits

 

I find it funny that, when discussing a QB like Gordon the first thing people say is that he is a beneficiary of Mike Leach's system.  Well, Mike Leach's system is the air raid system, yet people totally dismiss the fact that as a sophomore, Love operated in an air raid type offense that bloats numbers. In 2019, with a new coach and new offense, he has asked to do more reading defenses pre and post snap and really struggled with that aspect of it.  

 

People always say, look at the reasons for his 2019 numbers being poor but never consider the reasons for his 2018 numbers being good.  When looking at typical numbers put up in a lot of air raid offenses in college, even his 2018 numbers were not great for an air raid offense.

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9 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

That is true Utah state does not get the recruits and SEC school will get.  But that was as true in 2018 as it was in 2019.  So since he put up big numbers in 2018 and not in 2019 you cannot blame the recruits

 

I find it funny that, when discussing a QB like Gordon the first thing people say is that he is a beneficiary of Mike Leach's system.  Well, Mike Leach's system is the air raid system, yet people totally dismiss the fact that as a sophomore, Love operated in an air raid type offense that bloats numbers. In 2019, with a new coach and new offense, he has asked to do more reading defenses pre and post snap and really struggled with that aspect of it.  

 

People always say, look at the reasons for his 2019 numbers being poor but never consider the reasons for his 2018 numbers being good.  When looking at typical numbers put up in a lot of air raid offenses in college, even his 2018 numbers were not great for an air raid offense.

I have no problem discussing his 2018 season and what made it good. And keep in mind Gordon arguably did better than Mahomes in the same system on the same team. In short, I don't discount system QBs. It's what they show within the system. Love clearly showed in 2018 that he could execute at a high level in that system (with 2 and 3 star recruits), and also showed great arm talent. 

 

What you failed to mention, and what is most important, is:

1. Nine new starters on O

2. The one returning starter (OL) did not start the entire season (injury replacement)

3. All new coaches, and new scheme.

4. Defense took a big step back (also changed scheme)

5. His new WRs were for the most part incredibly slow (4.6 and 4.7s)

6. His best WR was a grad transfer from Utah who couldn't win a start in 4 years

 

The above is simply a lot to overcome. I've never in my life seen such turnover of absolutely every single aspect of a team. For instance, how would JB perform this year if you took every single starter off the team and replaced them with guys who never started before, plus, change coaches and schemes?

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Lol. Love  didn’t have the same starters he had in 2018.  Utah state doesn’t exactly just reload every year.

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On 2/23/2020 at 1:30 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

Question  Ballard on Love. But why?  For all we know he maybe rated as a second day pick or the best qb in the draft. We r going to have to wait till draft to see how much he is truly valued.

Yes. 

 

We know that CB is interested, so all of his buzzing around Love must have to do with value.  If he already thinks Love is worth pick 13 why would he keep talking to him?

 

IIRC, CB did not outwardly show interest in Hooker, Nelson, or Ya-sin; and usually players taken as high as pick 13 are sort of known quantities not afforded special attention.  CB might be trying to value Love as a 2nd round prospect sitting behind JB for a year. 

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I agree with Lance in the video that CeeDee Lamb is overvalued. Late first round like Calvin Ridley in the 20s is where he should go, IMO.

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Yes. 

 

We know that CB is interested, so all of his buzzing around Love must have to do with value.  If he already thinks Love is worth pick 13 why would he keep talking to him?

 

IIRC, CB did not outwardly show interest in Hooker, Nelson, or Ya-sin; and usually players taken as high as pick 13 are sort of known quantities not afforded special attention.  CB might be trying to value Love as a 2nd round prospect sitting behind JB for a year. 

 

QB is a bit different though, no? And really, what is outward interest? He was asked questions about Love that he answered. I'm sure he hasn't told Love that they're in love with him, nor did they tell the other guys in the past. I'm sure Love will interviewed just like the rest. The only difference is he's a QB and every reporter wants to ask about QBs, especially to teams that have QB questions. 

 

And any GM is going to try and evaluate all players in positions of need that realistically might be available. I don't disagree that he may be trying to understand what he may be willing to give up, or where exactly he might go. Personally, I'd try to understand how the picks shake out, take Kinlaw at 13, and trade back into the 1st if necessary to get Love (if that's who he wants). But, Ballard could easily take him at 13 if he likes him. He's taken a lot of players in the last 3 years ahead of where they were predicted to go.

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12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I have no problem discussing his 2018 season and what made it good. And keep in mind Gordon arguably did better than Mahomes in the same system on the same team. In short, I don't discount system QBs. It's what they show within the system. Love clearly showed in 2018 that he could execute at a high level in that system (with 2 and 3 star recruits), and also showed great arm talent. 

 

What you failed to mention, and what is most important, is:

1. Nine new starters on O

2. The one returning starter (OL) did not start the entire season (injury replacement)

3. All new coaches, and new scheme.

4. Defense took a big step back (also changed scheme)

5. His new WRs were for the most part incredibly slow (4.6 and 4.7s)

6. His best WR was a grad transfer from Utah who couldn't win a start in 4 years

I would expect that to have an effect, but if those changes cause him to go from looking like a really good QB to a below average QB, then I'd say he wasn't a really good QB to begin with.  And when you watch his 2018 games you see his WRs and RBs bailed him out of a lot poor throws.  He was also asked to make decisions based on his reading of the defense.  That factors in as much as working with new players.

Quote

 

The above is simply a lot to overcome. I've never in my life seen such turnover of absolutely every single aspect of a team. For instance, how would JB perform this year if you took every single starter off the team and replaced them with guys who never started before, plus, change coaches and schemes?

Again, I would expect it to have an effect, but I also thing his numbers looked better in 2018 than his skill level because of the type of offense that Utah State ran.

 

Basically, I do not think he is as bad as he looked in 2019, but unlike most people who want the Colts draft Love, I also do not think he is a s good as he looked in 2018.

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

QB is a bit different though, no? And really, what is outward interest? He was asked questions about Love that he answered. I'm sure he hasn't told Love that they're in love with him, nor did they tell the other guys in the past. I'm sure Love will interviewed just like the rest. The only difference is he's a QB and every reporter wants to ask about QBs, especially to teams that have QB questions. 

 

And any GM is going to try and evaluate all players in positions of need that realistically might be available. I don't disagree that he may be trying to understand what he may be willing to give up, or where exactly he might go. Personally, I'd try to understand how the picks shake out, take Kinlaw at 13, and trade back into the 1st if necessary to get Love (if that's who he wants). But, Ballard could easily take him at 13 if he likes him. He's taken a lot of players in the last 3 years ahead of where they were predicted to go.

I don't know if CB is projecting any outward interest towards Love per se.  Its probably common knowledge by now that he/scouts have been to Love's games....I think early in the year or even last year.  So the public chatter is out there.  Its why he was asked the question in the first place, because the questioner knows he's interested, and its public knowledge.

 

So tell me this, would CB be evaluating QBs for first round consideration early this season?  If so, then he has had questions about JB early on.  And if CB was at USU last year, what does that say?

 

To me, it says that he probably at least started off by thinking of Love as a small school developmental QB that could be had in the mid rounds as a back up to Luck or JB.  He wouldn't be thinking first round draft choice early in the season, IMO, and certainly not last season. 

 

If so, who knows if CB has changed his opinion or not?

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I don't know if CB is projecting any outward interest towards Love per se.  Its probably common knowledge by now that he/scouts have been to Love's games....I think early in the year or even last year.  So the public chatter is out there.  Its why he was asked the question in the first place, because the questioner knows he's interested, and its public knowledge.

 

So tell me this, would CB be evaluating QBs for first round consideration early this season?  If so, then he has had questions about JB early on.  And if CB was at USU last year, what does that say?

 

To me, it says that he probably at least started off by thinking of Love as a small school developmental QB that could be had in the mid rounds as a back up to Luck or JB.  He wouldn't be thinking first round draft choice early in the season, IMO, and certainly not last season. 

 

If so, who knows if CB has changed his opinion or not?

Interesting point.... if Ballard was personally scouting Love well BEFORE Luck announced his retirement... one would have to ask why.

 

It's understandable that Ballard was intrigued by Love's 2018 production, but not to the level of spending a 1st rounder on him, not yet knowing Andrew was going to tap out.

 

 

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On 2/23/2020 at 2:53 PM, EastStreet said:

How do do you think Tua and Burrow would look at Utah State, with all 2 and 3 star talent, instead of 4 and 5 star talent. And with that 2 and 3 star talent, all new starters last season and your best WR is a grad transfer who couldn't win the starting job at Utah. 

 

It's very disingenuous to discount 2018 and not take into account what Love's situation in 2019.  

 

That's one way to look at it.  Here's the other way.  To win consistently over many years in the NFL you need a QB who can carry you when the talent isn't there.  That's the mark of an elite, franchise QB.  That's what you're looking for in a QB.  You're not going to have a top 10 defense every year.  You're not going to have all 5 O-linemen play every snap every year.   The fact that Love crashed out with diminished talent at that level gives me little faith he could be a true elite QB who could carry a team at the NFL level.  

 

That said,  I'm not anti-Love.  With where we are in the draft, I would be okay with it.  I'm just not quite as excited as others are about Love.  

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Terry Bradshaw is considered one of the best QB's of all time, has 4 rings, and is in the HOF.  Yet he threw for just 2 more TD's than INT's in his career (212 to 210) and under 52% completions  despite throwing to 2 HOF WR's.  

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

The fact that Love crashed out with diminished talent at that level gives me little faith he could be a true elite QB who could carry a team at the NFL level.  

 

 

I do think the baseline level of talent is far greater than at the NFL level to make a statement like that because you do not have that huge a disparity in talent from Team No.1 to Team No.32 like between LSU and Utah State. He could have still made better decisions, no doubt but just pointing it out it is apples and oranges.

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51 minutes ago, pacolts56 said:

Interesting point.... if Ballard was personally scouting Love well BEFORE Luck announced his retirement... one would have to ask why.

 

It's understandable that Ballard was intrigued by Love's 2018 production, but not to the level of spending a 1st rounder on him, not yet knowing Andrew was going to tap out.

 

 

Yes.  Was CB at a USU game in 2018?  Or was it early 2019?  Was he looking at a replacement for Luck at that time?  Maybe he already had questions about Luck given his rehab took place in Europe and he may have lost interest in football way back then.

 

Or, was CB simply looking for a QB to be a viable backup knowing that JB's contract was expiring.  That seems like the most logical reason why he was at a USU game in 2018 or early 2019.

 

Now, if CB has elevated his opinion on Love since then, we don't know.  

 

The Colts talked to him at the combine.  Is this a serious attempt to further evaluate him or is it one of those smoke signalscreens Irsay was talking about?

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13 hours ago, DougDew said:

Yes. 

 

We know that CB is interested, so all of his buzzing around Love must have to do with value.  If he already thinks Love is worth pick 13 why would he keep talking to him?

 

IIRC, CB did not outwardly show interest in Hooker, Nelson, or Ya-sin; and usually players taken as high as pick 13 are sort of known quantities not afforded special attention.  CB might be trying to value Love as a 2nd round prospect sitting behind JB for a year. 

 

While Ballard didn't show outward interest in Nelson, it's worth pointing out that he was at Notre Dame's pro day. He didn't go and interact with Nelson, but he was there and watching. And while GMs do go to some pro days, it's not like they are at every pro-day there is. 

 

Similar with Hooker - there was a leaked story that they got him on a visit to the Colts facility the week before the draft. 

 

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11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

QB is a bit different though, no? And really, what is outward interest? He was asked questions about Love that he answered. I'm sure he hasn't told Love that they're in love with him, nor did they tell the other guys in the past. I'm sure Love will interviewed just like the rest. The only difference is he's a QB and every reporter wants to ask about QBs, especially to teams that have QB questions. 

 

And any GM is going to try and evaluate all players in positions of need that realistically might be available. I don't disagree that he may be trying to understand what he may be willing to give up, or where exactly he might go. Personally, I'd try to understand how the picks shake out, take Kinlaw at 13, and trade back into the 1st if necessary to get Love (if that's who he wants). But, Ballard could easily take him at 13 if he likes him. He's taken a lot of players in the last 3 years ahead of where they were predicted to go.

IMO if he likes him enough to take him at 13 he probably will like him enough to trade up in front of Oakland in order to secure him and not risk him getting picked by Gruden. This is just how it usually goes. Teams usually don't wait on QBs, they go get the QB they like. Now maybe "go get him" will mean draft BPA at 13 and then trade up from 34 to the 1st to get him if he thinks he will fall a bit because he seems like a developmental prospect. 

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