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On the one percent better podcast Steven Holder says he has a source that says keep a eye on Derek Carr to the colts. He says source says they are willing to explore a trade for Carr.  My guess this might only become a option if we aren’t able to get a guy we love in the draft.

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I would think that if the Raiders were going to trade Carr that they would do it before free agency and the draft to maximize his value. If they wait until they have Tom Brady or draft someone else then he probably loses value on the trade market. If I were Chris Ballard, I would be on the phone right now with Mike Mayock and Chucky trying to work out a trade for Carr.

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HIs completion percentage has been getting better every year, and we all know Reich and Ballard want a QB who has good accuracy. 

 

I'd be a fan of making a deal for him provided Ballard doesn't have to give up a 1st round pick, their 34th overall pick, or their 44th overall pick. 

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45 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

I would think that if the Raiders were going to trade Carr that they would do it before free agency and the draft to maximize his value. If they wait until they have Tom Brady or draft someone else then he probably loses value on the trade market. If I were Chris Ballard, I would be on the phone right now with Mike Mayock and Chucky trying to work out a trade for Carr.

YES YES  A hundred times YES!

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1 hour ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

I would think that if the Raiders were going to trade Carr that they would do it before free agency and the draft to maximize his value. If they wait until they have Tom Brady or draft someone else then he probably loses value on the trade market. If I were Chris Ballard, I would be on the phone right now with Mike Mayock and Chucky trying to work out a trade for Carr.

Agree on all counts. I also think it's a decision the Colts would make pre-draft too. Sure the Colts may be all in on one of the guys in the draft, and Carr could be Plan B, but IMO it's more likely he'd be a plan A. And given LVR will want draft picks, they'll definitely look for a pre-draft exchange.

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I think Carr is a horrible QB. He's a dink and dunk passer and the reason why the Raiders might shop him. When he throws down field he's as accurate as Blake Bortles, and we know how that turned out. I wouldn't take him for a 6th rounder, I'd rather go after Andy Dalton or even Jamies Winston..

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the radiers have him signed and dont want him yet a lot of people think he would be the answer for us?

 

best i would offer for carr is a second next year and only if we cant get a top 5 QB in this draft 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

the radiers have him signed and dont want him yet a lot of people think he would be the answer for us?

 

best i would offer for carr is a second next year and only if we cant get a top 5 QB in this draft 

He's not a fit for Gruden's O. His core stats were all very good last year. And that was with a lackluster group of pass catchers. 

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I'd be thrilled to see Carr with a horseshoe on his helmet. I'd rather have Carr than any of the FA QB's available. Unless we are able to get Herbert, Carr would be our best option IMO. With Carr we could draft best player available without reaching. The only QB's I would touch in the 1st round are Burrow, Tua & Herbert. Carr isn't a HOF QB but he is solid. He could help us make a SB run imo.

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3 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I’ve thought that this seems like a Ballard move, going after Carr. Only if we’re not overpaying for him in a trade though. 

My worry is that once you overpay for him in the trade you will be pot committed to overpay for his next contract too. You will be paying double price for him. 

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

My worry is that once you overpay for him in the trade you will be pot committed to overpay for his next contract too. You will be paying double price for him. 

Who says we have to give him another contract. We would have him for three years. Maybe we draft the future at some point in that three years.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Who says we have to give him another contract. We would have him for three years. Maybe we draft the future at some point in that three years.

If you are trading for him, IMO you are doing it as a long-term option. Especially considering how much he will most likely cost. You are not trading for him and drafting a QB high, until he's gone or you give up on him. 

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15 minutes ago, ColtJax said:

I think Carr is a horrible QB. He's a dink and dunk passer and the reason why the Raiders might shop him. When he throws down field he's as accurate as Blake Bortles, and we know how that turned out. I wouldn't take him for a 6th rounder, I'd rather go after Andy Dalton or even Jamies Winston..

Just about everything you said is refuted by his stats. At the very worst he's average in terms of air yards, and his deep pass rating was very successful. All of Carr's core stats were top 10.

 

#2 in completion %

#10 in YPA (7.9)

#10 in QBR

#9 in passer rating

#14 in YPG

#11 in INT% (11th lowest)

#17 in completed air yards

 

All the above was with a team that was top 10 in drops, and below average in separation.

 

As far as his deep ball accuracy, he was one of the better QBs. His left and right deep balls are among the best in the league, and his seam deep balls are at worst average. Here's his passing chart for 2019.

 

passer-rating-vs-league-avg_CAR358797_20

 

For the fun of it, I've included passing charts from the other guys you mentioned that you'd take over Carr.

 

Dalton

passer-rating-vs-league-avg_DAL659900_20

 

Winston

passer-rating-vs-league-avg_WIN623708_20

 

And Bortles, who you compared Carr too

passer-rating-vs-league-avg_BOR650964_20

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10 minutes ago, stitches said:

My worry is that once you overpay for him in the trade you will be pot committed to overpay for his next contract too. You will be paying double price for him. 

He's not making too much more than JB will this year. Actually less in cap hit. And we gave up a 2nd for JB... I'd give up a first for Carr, and not lose a minute sleep.

 

He's locked up for 3 years currently. If he's great, you pay him just like you would pay any franchise QB. If he's not good, you don't, or let him walk. Not sure I understand the concern here. It's the same concern we'd have with any QB. The only difference is, we know what we get with Carr, unlike a rook, and are not getting a cheap (but gambling risk) three to four years on a rook contract.

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A reasonable trade for Carr would be a great option...... playoffs in 2020

 

IF they are interested....

 

The 2nd 2nd...(I would offer less initially ) would be a great deal

 

as mentioned..... go for Cooper

 

Draft OL and DL with our top two picks

 

Sign me up!

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Just now, EastStreet said:

He's not making too much more than JB will this year. Actually less in cap hit. And we gave up a 2nd for JB... I'd give up a first for Carr, and not lose a minute sleep.

 

He's locked up for 3 years currently. If he's great, you pay him just like you would pay any franchise QB. If he's not good, you don't, or let him walk. Not sure I understand the concern here. It's the same concern we'd have with any QB. The only difference is, we know what we get with Carr, unlike a rook, and are not getting a cheap (but gambling risk) three to four years on a rook contract.

 

I guess it ultimately boils down to me not thinking as much of him as you do. You think he's worth all that(1st round pick, franchise QB money?), and I don't. I think a lot of his production and stats are schemed up and manufactured. To me he exhibits a lot of the same characteristics that Jacoby did in the first half of the season - elevated numbers that overstate his level of play thanks to playcalling and scheme. I didn't think Jacoby was good enough back then, and I don't think Carr is good enough now(admittedly, Carr is better than Jacoby). We've gone through this same conversation before, so I don't want to regurgitate it all over again... 

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't want to trade for Carr, unless the price is a 3d round pick or thereabout so we can treat him as a temporary/bridge QB that gives us better level of play than Jacoby in the short term, but we are not tied to him long term through overpaying for him. 

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9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

He's not making too much more than JB will this year. Actually less in cap hit. And we gave up a 2nd for JB... I'd give up a first for Carr, and not lose a minute sleep.

 

He's locked up for 3 years currently. If he's great, you pay him just like you would pay any franchise QB. If he's not good, you don't, or let him walk. Not sure I understand the concern here. It's the same concern we'd have with any QB. The only difference is, we know what we get with Carr, unlike a rook, and are not getting a cheap (but gambling risk) three to four years on a rook contract.

I think we actually gave up Phil Dorsett for JB.  I would give up a 1st as well if necessary.

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44 minutes ago, stitches said:

If you are trading for him, IMO you are doing it as a long-term option. Especially considering how much he will most likely cost. You are not trading for him and drafting a QB high, until he's gone or you give up on him. 

I never said draft a QB high this year or a QB at all. But we have him for 3 years if we trade for him. There is no reason to give him another contract. In his last year we could draft a QB. Or in 2021 we could draft a guy. There is nothing that says we have to keep him longer then the 3 years left on his  contract.  He would be 32 at the end of that 3 years. It’s not like we are trading for a 25 to QB.

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A second round pick for Carr would be a great deal, and if the Colts could get it done for pick#44, it becomes a steal. 

 

It’s also a far better scenario than signing  a washed up Rivers or rolling the dice in the draft with a talented but unknown commodity such as Love. 

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41 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think we actually gave up Phil Dorsett for JB.  I would give up a 1st as well if necessary.

Dorsett was a late 1st round pick who had improved in year 2 before the trade. I used 2nd as it's likely what he would have garnered in a trade for picks.

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Dorsett was a late 1st round pick who had improved in year 2 before the trade. I used 2nd as it's likely what he would have garnered in a trade for picks.

That's a very liberal evaluation. Noone was giving up a 2nd for Dorsett at the time. 

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44 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

I guess it ultimately boils down to me not thinking as much of him as you do. You think he's worth all that(1st round pick, franchise QB money?), and I don't. I think a lot of his production and stats are schemed up and manufactured. To me he exhibits a lot of the same characteristics that Jacoby did in the first half of the season - elevated numbers that overstate his level of play thanks to playcalling and scheme. I didn't think Jacoby was good enough back then, and I don't think Carr is good enough now(admittedly, Carr is better than Jacoby). We've gone through this same conversation before, so I don't want to regurgitate it all over again... 

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't want to trade for Carr, unless the price is a 3d round pick or thereabout so we can treat him as a temporary/bridge QB that gives us better level of play than Jacoby in the short term, but we are not tied to him long term through overpaying for him. 

I'd prefer a rook too (Love or Herbert) as you know. I'd just be happy with Carr as well. I don't think he's a product of scheme so much. I think his improved performance is a product of better coaching, better running game, and improved OL, despite the scheme that he really doesn't fit.

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Just now, stitches said:

That's a very liberal evaluation. Noone was giving up a 2nd for Dorsett at the time. 

He was in year two of his career, had just taken on starting duties, and had doubled his output from his rookie year. He was trending. At minimum he would have brought a 3rd, but we've seen teams give up 2s for similar production.

 

Case in point, NE just traded a 2nd round pick for a 30 year old Sanu with similar numbers. 

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The thing with Carr is it’s pretty low risk. All his guarantees have already been paid by Oakland. Your basically getting the back half of his contract. If it didn’t work it’s not that hard to dump him.  I would trade pick 44. The thing is though is if they do sign Brady it’s going to lower what they get for him. Ballard I don’t think will want to trade for him until he sees the draft play out. I do think he would rather give Reich a young QB to mold. Reich deserves to get a fresh young guy to mold also.

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52 minutes ago, stitches said:

Would you give up #13 for him? 

That question goes to @EastStreet too... 

A 13 for Carr? I'd prefer Herbert or Love, but I'd be OK with a 13 for Carr. We'd be in win-now mode as opposed to wait and see mode. I'd be fine with either.

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29 minutes ago, Hoose said:

A second round pick for Carr would be a great deal, and if the Colts could get it done for pick#44, it becomes a steal. 

 

It’s also a far better scenario than signing  a washed up Rivers or rolling the dice in the draft with a talented but unknown commodity such as Love. 

Ding..ding...! Agree 100%.

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Why would we not wait till free agency opens to see if Carr's value goes down? I am not budging from a pick No.34 or 44 stance, and if you smell the possibility of them trading Carr, I think the ball is in the opponent's court. You wait till the first or second week of free agency and see if they acquire Brady. I don't think they are going to make a move till they secure Brady, if that is who they are after. At that point, Ballard can call a few more shots because they don't want Carr's contract on their hands.

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If we were top-5, I'm drafting a QB, but at 13, this is probably the best, safest option, if he's available.  He's still young and you know what you would have for the foreseeable future.  If Frank can work Carr into a consistent, top-10 QB, you can compete.  Talent wise, he's not Manning or Luck, but there's enough there.

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13 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Why would we not wait till free agency opens to see if Carr's value goes down? I am not budging from a pick No.34 or 44 stance, and if you smell the possibility of them trading Carr, I think the ball is in the opponent's court. You wait till the first or second week of free agency and see if they acquire Brady. I don't think they are going to make a move till they secure Brady, if that is who they are after. At that point, Ballard can call a few more shots because they don't want Carr's contract on their hands.

If you wait too long into FA many if not most of the teams most interested In Carr will have made moves on the FA QBs available or other potential QBs that might be available in trade like Cam for example.  His highest value is before the draft.  If they could get it done before FA then I think him being our QB would help attract FAs as well. 

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I like Carrs mobility and he's not a bad passer either.  Our team has some similar qualities to the team Carr had when Del Rio was there.  The one that went to the playoffs and probably would have went to the Super Bowl or close to it if Carr didn't get hurt against the Colts.

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