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Imgrandojji

If the XFL called for Chad Kelly

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Do we let him go or try to keep him around?  Do we promise him playing time if that's what it took or is it better just to let him start over somewhere else at this point?

 

Do we even care what happens to Chad Kelly anymore?

 

Cause I'm just thinking if I'm Chad Kelly's agent, the XFL doesn't pay as much as an NFL practice squad but it's a chance to get my client's name out there.  Get him on TV and let people see him in action.  That's more valuable than a few extra grand.

 

In Kelly's situation I'd walk away from the NFL practice squad and sign with the TB Vipers or another struggling XFL team to get on TV, get into games, help springboard my NFL ambitions 2-3 years down the road.

 

So the only question in my mind is, do we, as Colts fans, care about this?  Or are we just waiting for a mutual parting of the ways?

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He'd be silly to leave the situation he's in. He's got a second chance, getting paid more, has a coach that is pals with uncle Jim, the team has a great OL, and the team's QB situation is volatile and which could mean opportunity for him. If it was a farm league situation, that would be great, but it's not.

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15 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The only problem is that Kelly makes more as a 3rd string NFL qb then he would make as an XFL starter.

In the short term, that's true.  In the medium term, which is more likely to propel him into a starting role in the NFL 2-3 years from now, rotting on the third string in the Indy practice squad, or being on live TV and demonstrating his talent under the second-brightest lights in football? 

 

Turning down tens of thousands of dollars to play in the XFL is foolish, unless it's the gateway to a much better chance to sign later on for millions.  Being in the limelight and showcasing your talent may be a better career move than languishing on a practice squad, especially since Kelly still has no clear inside track on actually cracking the roster or playing an NFL game.

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36 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Do we let him go or try to keep him around?  Do we promise him playing time if that's what it took or is it better just to let him start over somewhere else at this point?

 

Do we even care what happens to Chad Kelly anymore?

 

Cause I'm just thinking if I'm Chad Kelly's agent, the XFL doesn't pay as much as an NFL practice squad but it's a chance to get my client's name out there.  Get him on TV and let people see him in action.  That's more valuable than a few extra grand.

 

In Kelly's situation I'd walk away from the NFL practice squad and sign with the TB Vipers or another struggling XFL team to get on TV, get into games, help springboard my NFL ambitions 2-3 years down the road.

 

So the only question in my mind is, do we, as Colts fans, care about this?  Or are we just waiting for a mutual parting of the ways?

The XFL can call until the cows come home. Fact is as long as Kelly is under contract they cant touch em.:cash:

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He is making ten times more bring a 3rd string guy. He is even making a lot more in the PS.

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12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He is making ten times more bring a 3rd string guy. He is even making a lot more in the PS.

Starting QBs in the XFL can make up to 495K

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47 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The only problem is that Kelly makes more as a 3rd string NFL qb then he would make as an XFL starter.

I could be wrong, but I am not sure the money is his motivator.  Unless he needs more AK47 to shoot up a bar

 

This kid need to pay his dues, And the Colts are handing it brilliantly 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, WifiGuy said:

your're right @ReMeDy .   no one was more over  than Caine

 

I hope I missed sonething

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I don't think the XFL will necessarily help his position look at Phillip Walker, he is killing it in the XFL but never could get past practice squad, or on the roster for a substantial amount of time. 

 

I think him doing so great is more of a reflection of the difference in talent between the NFL and XFL then it is him.

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9 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Do we let him go or try to keep him around?  Do we promise him playing time if that's what it took or is it better just to let him start over somewhere else at this point?

 

Do we even care what happens to Chad Kelly anymore?

 

Cause I'm just thinking if I'm Chad Kelly's agent, the XFL doesn't pay as much as an NFL practice squad but it's a chance to get my client's name out there.  Get him on TV and let people see him in action.  That's more valuable than a few extra grand.

 

In Kelly's situation I'd walk away from the NFL practice squad and sign with the TB Vipers or another struggling XFL team to get on TV, get into games, help springboard my NFL ambitions 2-3 years down the road.

 

So the only question in my mind is, do we, as Colts fans, care about this?  Or are we just waiting for a mutual parting of the ways?

Chad us right up there with the legendary Mike Hart.

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11 hours ago, WifiGuy said:

Let him go.  Most over rated player since Dion Cain 

   If fans think he’s headed for Canton, that is overrating him.

   If, in the other hand, fans think he has shown enough potential to compete for a backup spot (or even start), that’s a reasonable stance. The Colts saw enough to sign him. That’s got to count for something.

 

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11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Starting QBs in the XFL can make up to 495K

 

He is making $660K as a back up now.

 

No reason to consider other options in 2020. Beyond 2020, we will see.

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I will say the XFL would love to become that type of league for the NFL.  They would love to have agreements with NFL teams that would allow their young/PS players come and play in the league and get some real game experience.

 

The issue comes with injuries.  Let's say, for example, that Kelly did go to the XFL for their season and tore an ACL.  Are they going to then compensate the Colts for the lost season and how? Money is good but that does not fully compensate the team who now has to look for another body for camp and perhaps even the 53 man roster.

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I will say the XFL would love to become that type of league for the NFL.  They would love to have agreements with NFL teams that would allow their young/PS players come and play in the league and get some real game experience.

 

The issue comes with injuries.  Let's say, for example, that Kelly did go to the XFL for their season and tore an ACL.  Are they going to then compensate the Colts for the lost season and how? Money is good but that does not fully compensate the team who now has to look for another body for camp and perhaps even the 53 man roster.

 

It's a CBA issue, and if you ask Bill Polian, this is what they were hoping to get done with the AAFL to make it a viable league. If the XFL can survive this season, and then engage the NFL as they're working on the next CBA and get a framework in place, it would be a major development.

 

But if you ask the people running the XFL, they want to be competition, not a minor league. Maybe that's just lip service.

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13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's a CBA issue, and if you ask Bill Polian, this is what they were hoping to get done with the AAFL to make it a viable league. If the XFL can survive this season, and then engage the NFL as they're working on the next CBA and get a framework in place, it would be a major development.

 

But if you ask the people running the XFL, they want to be competition, not a minor league. Maybe that's just lip service.

And right now, the NFL has a huge leg up on them in terms of competition. The general QB play has been rough besides a few bright spots. 

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2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

He is making $660K as a back up now.

 

No reason to consider other options in 2020. Beyond 2020, we will see.

Like I said earlier, he'd be stupid to leave now given the total situation. I was just pointing out that it wasn't a 10x factor like Chloe thought.

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14 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

In the short term, that's true.  In the medium term, which is more likely to propel him into a starting role in the NFL 2-3 years from now, rotting on the third string in the Indy practice squad, or being on live TV and demonstrating his talent under the second-brightest lights in football? 

 

Turning down tens of thousands of dollars to play in the XFL is foolish, unless it's the gateway to a much better chance to sign later on for millions.  Being in the limelight and showcasing your talent may be a better career move than languishing on a practice squad, especially since Kelly still has no clear inside track on actually cracking the roster or playing an NFL game.

 

I don't think so.  Kelly goes and plays in the XFL for a couple years he comes back he's still Colt's property.  (That's even presuming his contract allows him to go play for the other league, I'm guessing it doesn't.)  Even a wildly successful XFL player likely isn't going to improve his stock enough to make him attractive trade bait for the Colts.  

 

He's better off seeing where the NFL thing takes him.  The Colts kept him on the roster for some reason, perhaps he's in line to be the #2 guy in the future.  In that case he's simply a play away from NFL playing time.

 

If not he can just stick around in the league for a while and push his past behavior further behind him and eventually when the Colts either let him go or his contract runs out he might get a call for a backup job somewhere else.

 

A lot of the value of him sticking with the Colts is just in proving to NFL teams that he's grown up.  After that he can let his college resume and pre-season play try and get his foot in the door someplace else.  

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2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I will say the XFL would love to become that type of league for the NFL.  They would love to have agreements with NFL teams that would allow their young/PS players come and play in the league and get some real game experience.

 

The issue comes with injuries.  Let's say, for example, that Kelly did go to the XFL for their season and tore an ACL.  Are they going to then compensate the Colts for the lost season and how? Money is good but that does not fully compensate the team who now has to look for another body for camp and perhaps even the 53 man roster.

 

I don't think that any of this is likely to happen but to me what you are talking about is similar to either baseball's minor league or to the loan system in European soccer leagues.  In the end the team doesn't get any sort of compensation for injured players, that's just a risk you take.  The idea behind them is generally to get younger players with potential some playing time to develop them.  But if we are theoretically sending Chad Kelly to the XFL to get some playing time, we are most likely not planning on him being a major starter that year.  

 

But quite frankly I just don't think it will happen. 

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14 hours ago, Superman said:

He's under contract, he can't go anywhere. 

Contracts aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Players don't want to honor a  contract, they  renegotiate or quit.

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51 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I don't think that any of this is likely to happen but to me what you are talking about is similar to either baseball's minor league or to the loan system in European soccer leagues.  In the end the team doesn't get any sort of compensation for injured players, that's just a risk you take.  The idea behind them is generally to get younger players with potential some playing time to develop them.  But if we are theoretically sending Chad Kelly to the XFL to get some playing time, we are most likely not planning on him being a major starter that year.  

 

But quite frankly I just don't think it will happen. 

I don't think it will happen either, just pointing out the XFL would love for that to happen

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12 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Contracts aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Players don't want to honor a  contract, they  renegotiate or quit.

He can quit,   but he can't sign in the XFL

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The XFL isn't a developmental league, it should be, but it isn't. They have 2 year contracts, players can't just play a year then leave..

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's a CBA issue, and if you ask Bill Polian, this is what they were hoping to get done with the AAFL to make it a viable league. If the XFL can survive this season, and then engage the NFL as they're working on the next CBA and get a framework in place, it would be a major development.

 

But if you ask the people running the XFL, they want to be competition, not a minor league. Maybe that's just lip service.

I would say that is more lip service, because when the announcers talk about players, tey talk about what teams if any they were on, how they don't get a chance to improve on the practice and how the XFL gives them game experience to really improve their game.

 

I don't think it will happen for two main reasons: 1)  The NFL is not going to want to share their pie, so to speak.  If the XFL were to have an arrangement with the NFL, the XFL would probably cost more money than they would contribute.  2) Over the years the NFL system has proven pretty good at weeding ut the players that really just don't have what it takes to contribute in the NFL.  There are not a lot of players that slip through the cracks and would have been great if only they got the chance.

 

But all that being said, I've watched 3 XFL games so far and it's not bad football. It's not great and I probably won't follow a team or anything but being sick one weekend and still recovering the follow weekend, it was something to do.  Saw some big time hits, the XP system allows for some drama at the end of games and saw players that fought hard to pick up first downs or TDs.

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54 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Contracts aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Players don't want to honor a  contract, they  renegotiate or quit.

 

False. The CBA expressly prohibits a player under contract with an NFL team from playing in another professional football league. If Kelly quit and tried to sign with an XFL team, he'd be sued, as would the XFL if they actually allowed him to sign. 

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

False. The CBA expressly prohibits a player under contract with an NFL team from playing in another professional football league. If Kelly quit and tried to sign with an XFL team, he'd be sued, as would the XFL if they actually allowed him to sign. 

Isn't there something that a team owns the rights to a player for a set period of time after they retire?

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17 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I would say that is more lip service, because when the announcers talk about players, tey talk about what teams if any they were on, how they don't get a chance to improve on the practice and how the XFL gives them game experience to really improve their game.

 

I don't think it will happen for two main reasons: 1)  The NFL is not going to want to share their pie, so to speak.  If the XFL were to have an arrangement with the NFL, the XFL would probably cost more money than they would contribute.  2) Over the years the NFL system has proven pretty good at weeding ut the players that really just don't have what it takes to contribute in the NFL.  There are not a lot of players that slip through the cracks and would have been great if only they got the chance.

 

But all that being said, I've watched 3 XFL games so far and it's not bad football. It's not great and I probably won't follow a team or anything but being sick one weekend and still recovering the follow weekend, it was something to do.  Saw some big time hits, the XP system allows for some drama at the end of games and saw players that fought hard to pick up first downs or TDs.

 

I haven't watched any. Just been busy, and I have zero investment in it. If I were sitting around with nothing to do, I'd watch. I watched a few games of the AAFL. 

 

I get that announcers make that link, but at the end of the day the XFL would have to agree to specific arrangements to allow the NFL to loan out their developmental players for a set period of time. And I imagine the NFL would want the XFL to provide coverage for player injuries, workers comp, they'd be tied into the NFL's concussion protocol and pension plan, etc. A lot of ramifications that are major points of negotiation. And of course, money. 

 

And I don't think the NFL roster management rules lend themselves to development of young players. The PS rules, waivers, roster size limits, injury list protocol, UDFA rules, etc., make it difficult for a team to keep and develop a young player for a couple seasons, which then results in talented players bouncing around the league for a couple years and never catching on. Or players like Philip Walker being waived and re-signed every other week. The NFL could fix some of this on it's own, but if you added in the ability to give young players some real competition in the winter/spring -- with specific conditions, so if they played after Week 10 in the NFL they aren't eligible to play in the XFL, etc. -- you might have something.

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4 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Isn't there something that a team owns the rights to a player for a set period of time after they retire?

 

That set period of time is forever, as far as I understand.

 

Some have stated that if the team recoups bonus money, their rights to the player expire when his contract would have normally expired. (So, if the Colts had recouped Luck's unamortized bonus, their rights to him would expire after his contract was up in 2021.) I haven't seen that in writing, don't know if it's true.

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I haven't watched any. Just been busy, and I have zero investment in it. If I were sitting around with nothing to do, I'd watch. I watched a few games of the AAFL. 

 

I get that announcers make that link, but at the end of the day the XFL would have to agree to specific arrangements to allow the NFL to loan out their developmental players for a set period of time. And I imagine the NFL would want the XFL to provide coverage for player injuries, workers comp, they'd be tied into the NFL's concussion protocol and pension plan, etc. A lot of ramifications that are major points of negotiation. And of course, money. 

 

And I don't think the NFL roster management rules lend themselves to development of young players. The PS rules, waivers, roster size limits, injury list protocol, UDFA rules, etc., make it difficult for a team to keep and develop a young player for a couple seasons, which then results in talented players bouncing around the league for a couple years and never catching on. Or players like Philip Walker being waived and re-signed every other week. The NFL could fix some of this on it's own, but if you added in the ability to give young players some real competition in the winter/spring -- with specific conditions, so if they played after Week 10 in the NFL they aren't eligible to play in the XFL, etc. -- you might have something.

Another issue that would prevent a development league is techniques.  Coaches teach their players their techniques, so, again if it were a development league, a player spends time on an NFL practice squad and learns that team's techniques for their position, then goes to the XFL at the end of the season and learns the XFL coach's techniques and then tries to go back to the NFL.  I see a lot fringe players taking a step back at that point.

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18 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Another issue that would prevent a development league is techniques.  Coaches teach their players their techniques, so, again if it were a development league, a player spends time on an NFL practice squad and learns that team's techniques for their position, then goes to the XFL at the end of the season and learns the XFL coach's techniques and then tries to go back to the NFL.  I see a lot fringe players taking a step back at that point.

 

That's a fair point. I think "fringe players" are the guys you mentioned earlier, who probably just aren't good enough. Other guys -- the college RT who you want to convert to guard, but isn't good enough to dress on Sundays -- would probably benefit. But if you're learning Joe Philbin's OL techniques in the XFL, then get "called up" to play on Howard Mudd's line, it could be very problematic. Add that to the list of concerns.

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of guys who are probably close -- good enough to be on your 53 man roster, but the first guy to be cut if you need a roster spot, probably never dresses as a rookie, etc. -- and just need time against grown men in a pro-style system. You want him to get live reps from a three point stance, or you want a back to get reps iin pass pro.

 

And of course, QBs who never play... If Chad Kelly took over for Matt McGloin next week, and had a great showing, it would answer some questions with our QB room, right?

 

I just think player development is lacking, but as we're talking, it's obvious what kind of hurdles there are when it comes to cooperating with another league entirely. I think the AAFL would have been very open to coordinating schemes, techniques, etc., even assigning certain teams to specific NFL franchises, and eventually operating as a D-league. I think the XFL has a different approach.

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18 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Starting QBs in the XFL can make up to 495K

I didn’t realize that. There was a recent linked article in the College and other Sports Forum that I thought said XFL players play for approx $1100 @ week, with a chance to make bonuses, but $55,000 max for the year.  And that they cannot sue over injuries. So if they get hurt, they’re screwed!

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I sincerely hope that I didn’t speak incorrectly above, but I was trying to remember what Nancy posted in the other Forum.

 

this is here post, below: (I’m not sure how to credit her on this website, sorry)

 

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Posted February 9

Yes..PJ did look good.  I am liking the games and there's 2 more tomorrow!  Getting used to the new rules and all..did you notice the winning team gets a bonus to share?  Pretty good incentive for regular season game!  If you didn't read about the salaries:

The XFL’s non-negotiable agreement states players will earn $1,040 in base salary every week, which translates into a $27,040 gross payment. The contract outlines that XFL players earn another $1,685 for each game played, plus a $100,000 weekly win bonus is paid to every active roster member on the winning team. XFL players get no royalties for merchandise sold by the league, and they cannot pursue any legal claims in court. All this adds up to be an estimated average salary around $55,000 for every player.

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

I sincerely hope that I didn’t speak incorrectly above, but I was trying to remember what Nancy posted in the other Forum.

 

this is here post, below: (I’m not sure how to credit her on this website, sorry)

 

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Posted February 9

Yes..PJ did look good.  I am liking the games and there's 2 more tomorrow!  Getting used to the new rules and all..did you notice the winning team gets a bonus to share?  Pretty good incentive for regular season game!  If you didn't read about the salaries:

The XFL’s non-negotiable agreement states players will earn $1,040 in base salary every week, which translates into a $27,040 gross payment. The contract outlines that XFL players earn another $1,685 for each game played, plus a $100,000 weekly win bonus is paid to every active roster member on the winning team. XFL players get no royalties for merchandise sold by the league, and they cannot pursue any legal claims in court. All this adds up to be an estimated average salary around $55,000 for every player.

 

 

 

2 bolded statements seem contradictory. The $100,000 weekly win bonus for every active roster member on the winning team each week amounts to an average of $50,000 for each player who participated in each game each week. Doesn't make sense. If there is 10 games a season that would amount to an average of $500,000 for every participating player. Granted, the winning team only participates in the bonus but if a team went undefeated in a 10 game season each player on the roster if there were on it all 10 games would get a bonus on $1M. What am I missing?

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It's not explained in painful detail here, but basically:

 

XFL salary structure:

Average salary: $55,000

Bi-weekly paycheck: $2,080

Activation fee: $1,685

Victory bonus: $2,222

 

And top quarterbacks (apparently the lone salary exception) can earn up to $495,000.

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33 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

It's not explained in painful detail here, but basically:

 

XFL salary structure:

Average salary: $55,000

Bi-weekly paycheck: $2,080

Activation fee: $1,685

Victory bonus: $2,222

 

And top quarterbacks (apparently the lone salary exception) can earn up to $495,000.

It states above that the weekly win bonus of $100,000 is paid to every active roster member on the winning team. Should it read that a win bonus of $100,000 is divided equally between every active roster member on the winning team.

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1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

2 bolded statements seem contradictory. The $100,000 weekly win bonus for every active roster member on the winning team each week amounts to an average of $50,000 for each player who participated in each game each week. Doesn't make sense. If there is 10 games a season that would amount to an average of $500,000 for every participating player. Granted, the winning team only participates in the bonus but if a team went undefeated in a 10 game season each player on the roster if there were on it all 10 games would get a bonus on $1M. What am I missing?

I'm not sure. But I think she misquoted (not really misquoted, but not really properly explained?) the bonus. The way hear it described during the games,  the winning team SPLITS the $100k 46 ways. (More ways if the coaches get some)

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