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Bridgewater could command 30m a year


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Just now, richard pallo said:

They would never make the choice to keep Teddy over Brees when Brees is still showing he can with them a SB now.  If he was regressing maybe.  They would have to dump a lot of players to keep both thereby weakening the team and hurting their chances for an immediate SB run.  Counting on rookies and cheap FAs to fill the void is a a big gamble.  I think they are all in for this year and the last thing they would want to do is weaken the team by dumping players and keeping both QBs at market value. 

Come on man. We dumped Manning to roll the dice on a rook, and Manning went on to have 3 fantastic years before he regressed the 4th. During which time he had two SB appearances, and three 4500+ seasons, his best season ever (2013), and a SB win. And everyone talks about how loyal Irsay is... 

 

As far as players making a bunch that aren't performing up to their pay.

Janoris Jenkins CB - 11.3M and has a PFF grade similar to Rock's and has fallen of his 2016 ceiling

Kiko Alonso LB - 8.7M and will be 30 and tore his ACL in the playoffs

Sheldon Rankins DT - 7.7M. His performance dropped like a rock in 2019

Patrick Robinson - 6.1M. Did nothing, and they have a contract "out" for 2020

Nick Easton - 5.3M. Horrible. 

 

Those are only the bad to mediocre guys making more than 5M a year. 

 

Comparative to the Colts, we drafted 4 starters in 2019, 3 in 2018, and 4 in 2017. It's not crazy to think the Saints couldn't trade away or cut 3 or 4 of the guys I listed above, and replace them in the draft without too much drop off. If you just dump the top 2 (Jenkins and Alonso), that's 20M which is what Teddy could likely get.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Come on man. We dumped Manning to roll the dice on a rook, and Manning went on to have 3 fantastic years before he regressed the 4th. During which time he had two SB appearances, and three 4500+ seasons, his best season ever (2013), and a SB win. And everyone talks about how loyal Irsay is... 

 

As far as players making a bunch that aren't performing up to their pay.

Janoris Jenkins CB - 11.3M and has a PFF grade similar to Rock's and has fallen of his 2016 ceiling

Kiko Alonso LB - 8.7M and will be 30 and tore his ACL in the playoffs

Sheldon Rankins DT - 7.7M. His performance dropped like a rock in 2019

Patrick Robinson - 6.1M. Did nothing, and they have a contract "out" for 2020

Nick Easton - 5.3M. Horrible. 

 

Those are only the bad to mediocre guys making more than 5M a year. 

 

Comparative to the Colts, we drafted 4 starters in 2019, 3 in 2018, and 4 in 2017. It's not crazy to think the Saints couldn't trade away or cut 3 or 4 of the guys I listed above, and replace them in the draft without too much drop off. If you just dump the top 2 (Jenkins and Alonso), that's 20M which is what Teddy could likely get.

 

 

 

 

They have 9M in cap space before they sign Brees and Hill and quite a few UFA they need to sign including Thomas, Apple, Klein and Bell among others and their draft class.  They will be releasing poor performers just to try and resign the guys they want to keep and their draft class.  There is only so much they can do and keeping Brees and Teddy at market value is not one of them.  Teddy has to go.   BTW Dropping Manning to roll the dice on a rook?  Some roll of the dice.  Luck the best QB prospect to come out since Elway versus an older Manning and his injury history..  Some roll.  

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11 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

They have 9M in cap space before they sign Brees and Hill and quite a few UFA they need to sign including Thomas, Apple, Klein and Bell among others and their draft class.  They will be releasing poor performers just to try and resign the guys they want to keep and their draft class.  There is only so much they can do and keeping Brees and Teddy at market value is not one of them.  Teddy has to go.   BTW Dropping Manning to roll the dice on a rook?  Some roll of the dice.  Luck the best QB prospect to come out since Elway versus an older Manning and his injury history..  Some roll.  

They said that about Manning's draft mate, Ryan Leaf too lol... 

 

The point is, which you're actually helping, if Teddy is so good and seen as a franchise guy, why not keep him, and let an aging DB, who was injured a third of the year in 2019 go. Bottom line is, they, and most of the talking heads out there, don't think Teddy is worth it. They were pretty ruthless talking about him yesterday on ESPN's NFL live. They went through all the potential landing spots for Teddy, and were pretty down on his chances.

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6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

They said that about Manning's draft mate, Ryan Leaf too lol... 

 

The point is, which you're actually helping, if Teddy is so good and seen as a franchise guy, why not keep him, and let an aging DB, who was injured a third of the year in 2019 go. Bottom line is, they, and most of the talking heads out there, don't think Teddy is worth it. They were pretty ruthless talking about him yesterday on ESPN's NFL live. They went through all the potential landing spots for Teddy, and were pretty down on his chances.

Within the last week there ha e been reports articles and everything listing 5 or 6 teams with possible interest and many saying he has a strong market. This is something I would listen too outside of just a few talking heads on NFL Live. 
 

With Brees still showing he has all the talent why would they get rid of him? You compare it to Manning and 2012 but he was coming off a serious neck surgery and a potential to not be the same. So we drafted the extremely highly touted Luck. That isn’t even close to the same scenario in NO. They keep the guy they have loved for a decade and can’t afford Teddy. It’s simple math. You don’t allocate 50 mil just to your QB’s. With all the guys they need to sign plus possible extensions. A smart GM clearly doesn’t do what you are suggesting. 

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19 hours ago, richard pallo said:

They would never ask Brees to retire.  It's like having the Colts ask Manning to retire or the Steelers asking Ben to retire.  He's an icon in NO.  They would never do that.  They would love to hold on to Teddy but their circumstances won't allow that to happen.  That's all there is to it.  Teddy has shown this year that he is a franchise QB.  If he goes to the right team he will be a winner.  And he gets to pick that team.  It doesn't get any better than that for him.  

Agree to disagree

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57 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Within the last week there ha e been reports articles and everything listing 5 or 6 teams with possible interest and many saying he has a strong market. This is something I would listen too outside of just a few talking heads on NFL Live. 
 

With Brees still showing he has all the talent why would they get rid of him? You compare it to Manning and 2012 but he was coming off a serious neck surgery and a potential to not be the same. So we drafted the extremely highly touted Luck. That isn’t even close to the same scenario in NO. They keep the guy they have loved for a decade and can’t afford Teddy. It’s simple math. You don’t allocate 50 mil just to your QB’s. With all the guys they need to sign plus possible extensions. A smart GM clearly doesn’t do what you are suggesting. 

Exactly!  As a matter of fact today Mike Tanier of Bleacher Report published a huge article touting Teddy as being the best FA QB available among all of the available FA QBs even over Brady.  The older "Name" QBs are getting the attention over Teddy.  They are where talking heads go for their lead ins to their programs.  But the reality is Teddy is a better choice.   He even mentioned the reports of the Colts being enamored with Rivers which he doesn't understand considering Teddys availability.  It's a good read and he makes a great case for Teddy.  Another well thought out article touting Teddy in this current FA market.  

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1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

Within the last week there ha e been reports articles and everything listing 5 or 6 teams with possible interest and many saying he has a strong market. This is something I would listen too outside of just a few talking heads on NFL Live. 
 

With Brees still showing he has all the talent why would they get rid of him? You compare it to Manning and 2012 but he was coming off a serious neck surgery and a potential to not be the same. So we drafted the extremely highly touted Luck. That isn’t even close to the same scenario in NO. They keep the guy they have loved for a decade and can’t afford Teddy. It’s simple math. You don’t allocate 50 mil just to your QB’s. With all the guys they need to sign plus possible extensions. A smart GM clearly doesn’t do what you are suggesting. 

So a smart GM would take what will likely be a one year deal, max two, over a long term deal with someone they see as their future. Point is, they don't think Teddy is a clear franchise QB. I'd dump Teddy regardless of the salary cap, and draft a QB this year or next.

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21 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

So a smart GM would take what will likely be a one year deal, max two, over a long term deal with someone they see as their future. Point is, they don't think Teddy is a clear franchise QB. I'd dump Teddy regardless of the salary cap, and draft a QB this year or next.

If you are signing a one or two year deal worth roughly 30/year for Brees and are clearly in win now you sign other players as well to help that correct? So yes a smart GM goes for the Super Bowl and not a QB room that has 20% of the teams cap. That is common sense. 

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1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

If you are signing a one or two year deal worth roughly 30/year for Brees and are clearly in win now you sign other players as well to help that correct? So yes a smart GM goes for the Super Bowl and not a QB room that has 20% of the teams cap. That is common sense. 

Teddy isn't good, so the decision isn't that hard. 

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1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

Haha that comment let’s me know where your argument stands. 

My argument is simple. Teddy isn't good enough to even force a tough decision. People keeping saying Teddy is the second coming going 5-0, etc.. If he were that good, "win now" doesn't mean just Brees. It would mean Brees or Teddy, if Teddy was truly that good. He isn't, so the decision isn't hard. If they had a higher ceiling and higher profile guy sitting behind Brees, it would be a different story. Instead they have Teddy who was booted by the team that drafted him, and who lucked out behind a top 5 O-line and awesome O skill players. Where ever he ends up, I'd predict a quick decline in opinion unless they have the same as NO.

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9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

My argument is simple. Teddy isn't good enough to even force a tough decision. People keeping saying Teddy is the second coming going 5-0, etc.. If he were that good, "win now" doesn't mean just Brees. It would mean Brees or Teddy, if Teddy was truly that good. He isn't, so the decision isn't hard. If they had a higher ceiling and higher profile guy sitting behind Brees, it would be a different story. Instead they have Teddy who was booted by the team that drafted him, and who lucked out behind a top 5 O-line and awesome O skill players. Where ever he ends up, I'd predict a quick decline in opinion unless they have the same as NO.

First off no one is saying Teddy is the second coming so nice try with that. Other than that I’m not going to yet again explain the basics of football rosters to you. Clearly Brees is better than Teddy, no one would argue that. It’s basically timing. Brees retires Teddy is signed with NO. Pretty simple there. 

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5 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

First off no one is saying Teddy is the second coming so nice try with that. Other than that I’m not going to yet again explain the basics of football rosters to you. Clearly Brees is better than Teddy, no one would argue that. It’s basically timing. Brees retires Teddy is signed with NO. Pretty simple there. 

The conversation (that you jumped into) started with the debate about Teddy being a franchise QB. IMO, he is not, and is the basis of my opinion. 

 

and... You don't have to explain roster management lol....

Instead of providing lazy anecdotal stuff, I provided examples of specific and easy cuts that could be made to save them 35M. And that was only looking at 5 guys that range from mediocre to dead weight. I've also provide examples of roster turnover that points out replacing 3 to 4 players in a given year cheaply via the draft is doable. You on the other had have provided generalities. 

 

If Brees retired, I agree they would probably sign Teddy, but they'd also likely draft a QB.

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33 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

The conversation (that you jumped into) started with the debate about Teddy being a franchise QB. IMO, he is not, and is the basis of my opinion. 

 

and... You don't have to explain roster management lol....

Instead of providing lazy anecdotal stuff, I provided examples of specific and easy cuts that could be made to save them 35M. And that was only looking at 5 guys that range from mediocre to dead weight. I've also provide examples of roster turnover that points out replacing 3 to 4 players in a given year cheaply via the draft is doable. You on the other had have provided generalities. 

 

If Brees retired, I agree they would probably sign Teddy, but they'd also likely draft a QB.

Throwing names out there of players you claim are bad and can easily be cut is laughable. Replace them with what? Bench guys or your guaranteed draft picks. If you are in win now you don’t cut a bunch of people to worry about signing two QB’s. Again roster management. 

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1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

Throwing names out there of players you claim are bad and can easily be cut is laughable. Replace them with what? Bench guys or your guaranteed draft picks. If you are in win now you don’t cut a bunch of people to worry about signing two QB’s. Again roster management. 

I don't claim they're bad, their stats, PFF ratings, health history, and age suggest they should be replaced. They should be replaced regardless of their QB strategy or motivation.

 

Before slamming my recommendations, take a look at their data. I'm specific, using data to support.  You're being anecdotal and lazy citing "roster management". Roster management is knowing the performance, age, health and cost of the roster, which I've used clear and specific example.

 

As far as replacing, yes, via draft and FA. I also illustrated specifically how many starters we turned over in each of the last 3 drafts, and that doesn't even take into account FA. And again, your anecdotal. 

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I don't claim they're bad, their stats, PFF ratings, health history, and age suggest they should be replaced. They should be replaced regardless of their QB strategy or motivation.

 

Before slamming my recommendations, take a look at their data. I'm specific, using data to support.  You're being anecdotal and lazy citing "roster management". Roster management is knowing the performance, age, health and cost of the roster, which I've used clear and specific example.

 

As far as replacing, yes, via draft and FA. I also illustrated specifically how many starters we turned over in each of the last 3 drafts, and that doesn't even take into account FA. And again, your anecdotal. 

I have given the best stat I could to help my side. No team in a win now mode will have 50+ million tied into the QB’s. I mean throw whatever numbers you want to cut this player or that player. It doesn’t matter. You will not have that much invested in one position. 

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8 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

I have given the best stat I could to help my side. No team in a win now mode will have 50+ million tied into the QB’s. I mean throw whatever numbers you want to cut this player or that player. It doesn’t matter. You will not have that much invested in one position. 

I wouldn't do it either (pay 50). But... If I truly thought Teddy was the future (folks keep harping on his 5-0 and saying he's ready), then I'd pick Teddy and let Brees walk like Irsay did Manning. They aren't that confident in Teddy to make that move, so Teddy will walk. It isn't loyalty to Brees, it's that Brees is simply much better than Teddy, even at his age.

 

If they really wanted to keep them both, they could offer terms to keep them lower than 50 though. Brees could do a Brady and take 20 for one or two years, and they could offer Teddy a long term contract that gives his him a little more the years Brees is there, and give him accelerator clauses similar to what he had last year ( 50% offensive snaps + playoff birth: $2.5M), but with a much higher accelerator. In short, I think the "interest" level in Teddy is exaggerated anyway, and so is his "skill" Doubt he signs for 20, and if he does, doubt he performs. We'll see. 

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39 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I wouldn't do it either (pay 50). But... If I truly thought Teddy was the future (folks keep harping on his 5-0 and saying he's ready), then I'd pick Teddy and let Brees walk like Irsay did Manning. They aren't that confident in Teddy to make that move, so Teddy will walk. It isn't loyalty to Brees, it's that Brees is simply much better than Teddy, even at his age.

 

If they really wanted to keep them both, they could offer terms to keep them lower than 50 though. Brees could do a Brady and take 20 for one or two years, and they could offer Teddy a long term contract that gives his him a little more the years Brees is there, and give him accelerator clauses similar to what he had last year ( 50% offensive snaps + playoff birth: $2.5M), but with a much higher accelerator. In short, I think the "interest" level in Teddy is exaggerated anyway, and so is his "skill" Doubt he signs for 20, and if he does, doubt he performs. We'll see. 

Of course Brees is better than Teddy.  That's why they're keeping him. And he isn't coming off a serious neck injury like Manning.  He is healthy.  They want to win now with one of the best QBs in the league.  They would love to keep Teddy too but they can't pay both of them.  They are forced to roll with Hill.  Yeah Brees could do a Brady.  But until he does there is no way they can afford to keep both.  Pretty simple. 

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25 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Of course Brees is better than Teddy.  That's why they're keeping him. And he isn't coming off a serious neck injury like Manning.  He is healthy.  They want to win now with one of the best QBs in the league.  They would love to keep Teddy too but they can't pay both of them.  They are forced to roll with Hill.  Yeah Brees could do a Brady.  But until he does there is no way they can afford to keep both.  Pretty simple. 

IMO, the "love to keep Teddy" is highly exaggerated. He's a low end starter or high end back up. If he goes anywhere without a high end OL and high end supporting cast, he'll quickly become the same guy he was a few a years ago. 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

IMO, the "love to keep Teddy" is highly exaggerated. He's a low end starter or high end back up. If he goes anywhere without a high end OL and high end supporting cast, he'll quickly become the same guy he was a few a years ago. 

Since he gets to pick the team that he is going to play for maybe he signs with a team that has a high end OL  hmmmmm  and a high end supporting cast  hmmmm and a system that is perfect for him hmmmmm.   BTW the Indy Star also had an article yesterday touting Teddy as a fit for the Colts.  These articles just keep on coming.  You are definitely in the minority when it comes to people thinking he is a low end starter or high end backup.  Be that as it may.  We are all entitled to our opinions.  That's what this forum is for.  

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33 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Since he gets to pick the team that he is going to play for maybe he signs with a team that has a high end OL  hmmmmm  and a high end supporting cast  hmmmm and a system that is perfect for him hmmmmm.   BTW the Indy Star also had an article yesterday touting Teddy as a fit for the Colts.  These articles just keep on coming.  You are definitely in the minority when it comes to people thinking he is a low end starter or high end backup.  Be that as it may.  We are all entitled to our opinions.  That's what this forum is for.  

ESPN's NFL Live ripped him up and down and basically said the hype is unfounded. Holder and Keefer said he was overrated, but is probably better than JB... 

 

From all I've seen, I'm definitely not in the minority, at least as far as mainstream reporting. Outside of the fringe click bait twitter and pod cast type of stuff, I don't see many saying he's all that. Even some of the lesser sites think he's overrated. NFL TR ranks him as the 31st best FA available and the lowest ranked QB (out of 7) in the top 50, CBS ranks him 6 of 7, PFF 7 of 7, and NFL.com list 6 QBs on their top 25 FAs and Teddy isn't included. So he's behind even guys like Rivers, Winston and Tannehill. That's just not good lol.

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3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Since he gets to pick the team that he is going to play for maybe he signs with a team that has a high end OL  hmmmmm  and a high end supporting cast  hmmmm and a system that is perfect for him hmmmmm.   BTW the Indy Star also had an article yesterday touting Teddy as a fit for the Colts.  These articles just keep on coming.  You are definitely in the minority when it comes to people thinking he is a low end starter or high end backup.  Be that as it may.  We are all entitled to our opinions.  That's what this forum is for.  

 

Some of us Vikes fans wish we still had Teddy. Some fans love guys that put up glowing stats. I like QBs that help their teams win. Teddy does not put up big stats but when he plays he wins. I would love to have him back. However, I would not pay Teddy more than $20 million/year.

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11 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Some of us Vikes fans wish we still had Teddy. Some fans love guys that put up glowing stats. I like QBs that help their teams win. Teddy does not put up big stats but when he plays he wins. I would love to have him back. However, I would not pay Teddy more than $20 million/year.

I was shocked when I read that 30M article.  Talk about click bait.  I never worry about the money or the contract.  Whatever Ballard signs him for is fine with me.  18M or 22M or any number that's up to Ballard.  Who am I to second-guess our GM on what a player is worth and what they should be paid.  It's all about supply and demand and cap management.  That's Ballards expertise not mine.  I don't think he even knows where this QB decision is heading.  Still too early.  

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38 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Some of us Vikes fans wish we still had Teddy. Some fans love guys that put up glowing stats. I like QBs that help their teams win. Teddy does not put up big stats but when he plays he wins. I would love to have him back. However, I would not pay Teddy more than $20 million/year.

Teddy was 17-11 in MN, while Cousins is 18-12. Not much difference. 

 

Cousins also had better QBRs in both years than Teddy's two years, and Cousins also had a lower INT%. 

 

What am I missing here. Sincerely trying to understand.

 

 

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5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Teddy was 17-11 in MN, while Cousins is 18-12. Not much difference

 

Teddy was in his first 2 years of his career when he played with us. Cousins is in his prime. Teddy took over mid-season his rookie year and went 6-6 and then 11-5 in his 2nd year. Also, you cannot compare the team Teddy had when he was a rookie to what Cousins has had with the Vikings. Mike Zimmer had just taken over a bad team. Teddy had Matt Asiata as his main running back his rookie season after Peterson was suspended and McKinnon went on IR. Also, his receivers were not as good. Teddy would have won more with the players that Cousins has had. (Case Keenum did.)  

 

Anyway, I'm not going to go back and forth on this. It us hard for Colts fans to appreciate QBs like Teddy when they have had prolific passers like Peyton Manning and Luck as QBs.  Let's agree to disagree.

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I like Teddy but he is average IMO. Average isn't bad or below average but we need at least above average at QB like a Carr. That is the problem with JB, he is basically average too, average just doesn't cut it. I would like good which I think Rivers still may be, he won't be great anymore because of his age but with Rivers he still may have 1 more run in him to try for that SB.

 

Cousins is in the good category IMO, he isn't very good or great IMO but good. He and his teams still have trouble beating the better teams in the league but that Saints playoff win was really nice for him. He puts up pretty good numbers too.

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4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like Teddy but he is average IMO. Average isn't bad or below average but we need at least above average at QB like a Carr. That is the problem with JB, he is basically average too, average just doesn't cut it. I would like good which I think Rivers still may be, he won't be great anymore because of his age but with Rivers he still may have 1 more run in him to try for that SB.

 

Cousins is in the good category IMO, he isn't very good or great IMO but good. He and his teams still have trouble beating the better teams in the league but that Saints playoff win was really nice for him. He puts up pretty good numbers too.

 

Would you like to trade for Cousins? He is in the last year of his contract and the Colts have the cap space to pay his salary. Your rookie QB can learn under Cousins. I bet Colts fans would get as frustrated as Vikes fans and Washington fans got when watching him play. 

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4 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Would you like to trade for Cousins? He is in the last year of his contract and the Colts have the cap space to pay his salary. Your rookie QB can learn under Cousins. I bet Colts fans would get as frustrated as Vikes fans and Washington fans got when watching him play. 

I would take Cousins in a heartbeat over JB. Like I said he isn't very good or great but he is good. With our O.Line, Cousins would play well.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would take Cousins in a heartbeat over JB. Like I said he isn't very good or great but he is good. With our O.Line, Cousins would play well.

 

He's yours. Lol. Let's see how that works out. :)

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23 minutes ago, stitches said:

Would you rather have Teddy or Cousins if they were paid the same money? 

 

I would probably take Teddy. I always had the feeling that we could come back and win with Teddy. I don't feel that way with Cousins. Teddy was always cool under pressure. He did the little things that don't show up in the stats. Since we had a pretty good defense, we did not need a high-scoring offense. So, the goal of our offense was to sustain drives, take time off the clock, and score enough points to win. Teddy knew how to sustain drives, whether it be by drawing oppo ents offsides, running for a first down, or throwing for a first down.

 

What is most important to me is doing what is necessary to win. I have no problem with a game manager who makes good decisions and helps us win. Teddy is a game manager but he knows how to win. I was not surprised that the Saints went 5-0 with him subbing for Brees this past season. 

 

It is just my opinion. I don't expect people to agree. 

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8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ok I would give you our 44th for Cousins, that is a 2nd.

 

:shake: I'll take it. I think it is too generous an offer though, as you have him under contract for only one year. 3rd round pick is more fair.

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5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

:shake: I'll take it. I think it is too generous an offer though, as you have him under contract for only one year. 3rd round pick is more fair.

We are way under the Salary Cap so we can afford him, enjoy your 44th pick. I love doing business with you :thmup:. Cousins is in his prime and is good. 

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7 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

:shake: I'll take it. I think it is too generous an offer though, as you have him under contract for only one year. 

The only thing we have better than the Vikings is the OLine. I don't think we are winning anything with Cousins. A lot of Colts fans seem very eager to ship good assets for average-ish to mediocre QBs. :dunno:

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

The only thing we have better than the Vikings is the OLine. I don't think we are winning anything with Cousins. A lot of Colts fans seem very eager to ship good assets for average-ish to mediocre QBs. :dunno:

She accepted a 44th pick for Cousins that is all, read above. Who wouldn't do that?

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@stitches What I really want is to draft a QB. But after that PFF video (the podcast) that you posted, it seems only Joe Burrow and maybe Tua are expected to succeed as starters in the NFL. Maybe there will be a better crop of QBs in the next draft. What do you think?

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