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CR91

Your Current Top 10 Colts

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1. Darius Leonard

2. Quenton Nelson

3. T.Y Hilton

4. Kenny Moore

5. Marlon Mack

6. Malik Hooker

7. Justin Houston

8. Ryan Kelly

9. Braden Smith

10. Anthony Walker

 

AC is not currently a colt hence why he's not on my list.

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Imo Nelson has to be #1. Nobody is more dominant at their position. Ty #2, hes the MVP of the team. Leonard a solid 3.

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19 minutes ago, bsteves said:

Imo Nelson has to be #1. Nobody is more dominant at their position. Ty #2, hes the MVP of the team. Leonard a solid 3.

 

You can put all three in any order in the top three. Their all HOF caliber players

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54 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

You can put all three in any order in the top three. Their all HOF caliber players

 

True!

 

On a side note, hopefully Leonard doesnt see my post. I don't want him complaining about how he got snubbed againhaha

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5 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

You can put all three in any order in the top three. Their all HOF caliber players

TY Hilton is nowhere near a HOF player. He's an above-average inconsistent receiver that disappears during games honestly. He also rarely scores tds, and that was true even with Luck.

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1.) Quenton Nelson

2.) Darius Leonard

3.) Kenny Moore

4.) Ryan Kelly

5.) Marlon Mack

6.) Justin Houston

7.) Braden Smith

8.) T.Y. Hilton

9.) Anthony Walker

10.) Malik Hooker

 

If Castonzo re-signs, I'd put him at 6 on the list.

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Straight up best 10 football players? Ok, I'll play, this going to drive some of you a little nuts but we could use some excitement in the off-season so I'll do it! :)  Problem is, your QB needs to be a top 3 player and preferably #1! 

 

1. Quenton Nelson

2. Darius Leonard

3. Anthony Castonzo*

4. Justin Houston

5. Chad Kelly

6. T.Y Hilton

7. Marlon Mack

8. Jacoby Brissett

9. Braden Smith

10. Ryan Kelly

________________

11. Kenny Moore

12. Kemoko Turay

13. Jack Doyle

14. Pierre Desir

15. Malik Hooker

16. Khari Willis

17. Jabaal Sheard*

18. Denico Autry

19. Anthony Walker

20. Mark Glowinski

 

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51 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

1.) Quenton Nelson

2.) Darius Leonard

3.) Kenny Moore

4.) Ryan Kelly

5.) Marlon Mack

6.) Justin Houston

7.) Braden Smith

8.) T.Y. Hilton

9.) Anthony Walker

10.) Malik Hooker

 

If Castonzo re-signs, I'd put him at 6 on the list.

My list is:

1. Nelson

 

2. Leonard

 

3. Hilton - I still have him here for now. We are just a different team when he plays and is healthy. When he misses games we don't win.

 

4. Kelly

 

5. Mack

 

6. Castonzo - assuming he re-signs

 

7. Houston

 

8. Moore

 

9. Doyle

 

10. B. Smith

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

1.) Quenton Nelson

2.) Darius Leonard

3.) Kenny Moore

4.) Ryan Kelly

5.) Marlon Mack

6.) Justin Houston

7.) Braden Smith

8.) T.Y. Hilton

9.) Anthony Walker

10.) Malik Hooker

 

If Castonzo re-signs, I'd put him at 6 on the list.

I would've had Hooker on my list but I included Costonzo. You and I have several similarities with our list.

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2 hours ago, Rally5 said:

Straight up best 10 football players? Ok, I'll play, this going to drive some of you a little nuts but we could use some excitement in the off-season so I'll do it! :)  Problem is, your QB needs to be a top 3 player and preferably #1! 

 

1. Quenton Nelson

2. Darius Leonard

3. Anthony Castonzo*

4. Justin Houston

5. Chad Kelly

6. T.Y Hilton

7. Marlon Mack

8. Jacoby Brissett

9. Braden Smith

10. Ryan Kelly

________________

11. Kenny Moore

12. Kemoko Turay

13. Jack Doyle

14. Pierre Desir

15. Malik Hooker

16. Khari Willis

17. Jabaal Sheard*

18. Denico Autry

19. Anthony Walker

20. Mark Glowinski

 

:lol:..... is it soup yet? :stir:

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JC & 2006CB pretty much nailed it for me, so I'm going to project the top 10 by the end of 2020, sans rookies, of course, and break it down to offense/defense

 

 

Nelson

Hilton - clearly, this will be affected by health and who the QB is

Castonzo

Kelly, R

Smith

Mack - listed him 6th, since his success is very much dependent on the guys above him

 

 

Leonard

Okereke

Moore

Turay

Willis

Houston

 

edit: okay, top 12

 

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6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

TY Hilton is nowhere near a HOF player. He's an above-average inconsistent receiver that disappears during games honestly. He also rarely scores tds, and that was true even with Luck.

 

Well if he's so unimportant, explain how we've been only won one game without him? Or the fact he broke Marv's record for most 150+ games?

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6 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Well if he's so unimportant, explain how we've been only won one game without him? Or the fact he broke Marv's record for most 150+ games?

We only lost one game without him because Luck was our QB most of the time and he force-fed the ball to Hilton. With Brissett, Hilton is mostly ineffective. Hilton had a lot of 150+ yard games, again, because Luck force-fed the ball to him. He also had a ton of games where he completely disappeared and had less than 50 yards. Very inconsistent receiver.

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4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We only lost one game without him because Luck was our QB most of the time and he force-fed the ball to Hilton. With Brissett, Hilton is mostly ineffective. Hilton had a lot of 150+ yard games, again, because Luck force-fed the ball to him. He also had a ton of games where he completely disappeared and had less than 50 yards. Very inconsistent receiver.

 

Force fed? Hilton might have 3 catches all game. Just happened to be for 100 yards and a td. Again you are false on your hate.

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Just now, CR91 said:

 

Force fed? Hilton might have 3 catches all game. Just happened to be for 100 yards and a td. Again you are false on your hate.

You really want me to show you pass attempts that Hilton had since 2012? Luck forced the ball to him, which was a big reason for his INT's. Why would I "hate" Hilton? If anything, I hate Brissett. Hilton is an above-average receiver, which is very good for the NFL.

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9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You really want me to show you pass attempts that Hilton had since 2012? Luck forced the ball to him, which was a big reason for his INT's. Why would I "hate" Hilton? If anything, I hate Brissett. Hilton is an above-average receiver, which is very good for the NFL.

 

Because Hilton is way better then above average. Hilton is in that class of rare talent that you don't see every day. He deserves to have his name mentioned with Marv and Reggie

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2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Because Hilton is way better then above average. Hilton is in that class of rare talent that you don't see every day. He deserves to have his name mentioned with Marv and Reggie

Sorry, I disagree with that. He was really good with Andrew. When teams wanted too, they took him out of the game without much trouble. He couldn't handle double teams. Brissett makes him look bad, but he also never scored more than 7 tds in a season. He's a no1 receiver because Grigson and Ballard can't draft WR's. He's honestly a high end no2 slot receiver that got used on the outside incorrectly. Above-average, but not elite like Marvin or Reggie. I will say he's our best receiver since Reggie though.

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1. Quenton Nelson

---

2. T.Y. Hilton

3. Darius Leonard

---

4. Anthony Castonzo *

---

5. Jack Doyle

6. Malik Hooker

7. Kenny Moore

8. Justin Houston

---

9. Ryan Kelly

10. Braden Smith

11. Marlon Mack

 

Players to watch in the next year or two(they have already shown good play/flashes, now we need to see if they can develop and build on that good start):

Kemoko Turay

Bobby Okereke

Khari Willis

Rock Ya-Sin

Marvell Tell III

 

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9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Sorry, I disagree with that. He was really good with Andrew. When teams wanted too, they took him out of the game without much trouble. He couldn't handle double teams. Brissett makes him look bad, but he also never scored more than 7 tds in a season. He's a no1 receiver because Grigson and Ballard can't draft WR's. He's honestly a high end no2 slot receiver that got used on the outside incorrectly. Above-average, but not elite like Marvin or Reggie. I will say he's our best receiver since Reggie though.

 

You are so wrong, there is absolutely no reason to continue arguing. Good day sir

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16 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Well if he's so unimportant, explain how we've been only won one game without him? Or the fact he broke Marv's record for most 150+ games?

 

I think being 'unimportant' and not being HOF caliber are two different things.  Hilton has been in the league for 8 years.  He has never had more than 100 receptions in a season.  Marvin did it 4 times in his first 7 years with 94 receptions in his 8th year (TY's got 2 seasons with 82 catches, 1 with 91 and only one other with over 70 so 4 over 70 total in his first 8).  Marv led the league in receptions and receiving yards 2x during his first 8 years and had 5 seasons with over 10 TDs.  TY has never had a season with more than 7 TDs.  Marv had his year with 143 receptions when he was double or triple teamed every game.  TY can be taken out of games effectively by being double teamed.  If you go past the first 8, Marv had a stretch where he had >1,000 yards and 10+ TDs for 8 straight years (the best streak in NFL history).  I highly doubt TY's going to pull that task off considering he's never had a single season with >7 TDs.

 

Reggie had 5 of his first 8 seasons w/ >70 catches, 4 of them >80 catches and 1 with 100 catches.  He then had 3 more 100+ reception seasons later in his career.  Reggie had 10+ TDs twice in his first 8 years compared to 0 for TY.  All Marv, Reggie and TY had 5 seasons w/ >1,000 yards in their first 8 seasons.

 

TY's body also doesn't seem to be holding up all that well.  He has had injuries the past couple years which obviously impacted his play.  At his current pace, he'd likely need to last 15 seasons to make it to 1,000 receptions, which is pretty much the minimum to be considered for the HOF at the WR position unless you're someone who got hurt early and completely impacted the game (e.g., Megatron).  

 

Don't get me wrong, I like TY a lot.  He's a special player when he's healthy.  But I highly doubt he's a HOFer, especially if the QB play doesn't improve around here.

 

16 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Sorry, I disagree with that. He was really good with Andrew. When teams wanted too, they took him out of the game without much trouble. He couldn't handle double teams. Brissett makes him look bad, but he also never scored more than 7 tds in a season. He's a no1 receiver because Grigson and Ballard can't draft WR's. He's honestly a high end no2 slot receiver that got used on the outside incorrectly. Above-average, but not elite like Marvin or Reggie. I will say he's our best receiver since Reggie though.

 

I think TY is versatile enough to move inside or outside.  He's shown he can play outside, mainly because his speed.  But yes, look at the year Marv had 143 receptions.  He was double or triple teamed every single game.  Teams knew what was coming and they couldn't stop him.  While I don't think TY's a bad route runner, Marv by many accounts was the best route runner in the game when he played (Peanut Tillman, Shawn Springs, Champ Bailey are all on record saying this, and I think a few other top-tier CBs said the same thing).  

 

Again, I like TY a lot.  However, without weapons around him, he can be taken out of games regardless of who his QB is.  Marvin was very rarely taken out of games (unless you consider the Pats game in which Ty Law was basically tackling Marvin at the line of scrimmage, a game which changed the NFL history since Polian got the rules changed that offseason to make it a lot easier on WRs than it was then).  

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2 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I think being 'unimportant' and not being HOF caliber are two different things.  Hilton has been in the league for 8 years.  He has never had more than 100 receptions in a season.  Marvin did it 4 times in his first 7 years with 94 receptions in his 8th year (TY's got 2 seasons with 82 catches, 1 with 91 and only one other with over 70 so 4 over 70 total in his first 8).  Marv led the league in receptions and receiving yards 2x during his first 8 years and had 5 seasons with over 10 TDs.  TY has never had a season with more than 7 TDs.  Marv had his year with 143 receptions when he was double or triple teamed every game.  TY can be taken out of games effectively by being double teamed.  If you go past the first 8, Marv had a stretch where he had >1,000 yards and 10+ TDs for 8 straight years (the best streak in NFL history).  I highly doubt TY's going to pull that task off considering he's never had a single season with >7 TDs.

 

Reggie had 5 of his first 8 seasons w/ >70 catches, 4 of them >80 catches and 1 with 100 catches.  He then had 3 more 100+ reception seasons later in his career.  Reggie had 10+ TDs twice in his first 8 years compared to 0 for TY.  All Marv, Reggie and TY had 5 seasons w/ >1,000 yards in their first 8 seasons.

 

TY's body also doesn't seem to be holding up all that well.  He has had injuries the past couple years which obviously impacted his play.  At his current pace, he'd likely need to last 15 seasons to make it to 1,000 receptions, which is pretty much the minimum to be considered for the HOF at the WR position unless you're someone who got hurt early and completely impacted the game (e.g., Megatron).  

 

Don't get me wrong, I like TY a lot.  He's a special player when he's healthy.  But I highly doubt he's a HOFer, especially if the QB play doesn't improve around here.

 

 

I think TY is versatile enough to move inside or outside.  He's shown he can play outside, mainly because his speed.  But yes, look at the year Marv had 143 receptions.  He was double or triple teamed every single game.  Teams knew what was coming and they couldn't stop him.  While I don't think TY's a bad route runner, Marv by many accounts was the best route runner in the game when he played (Peanut Tillman, Shawn Springs, Champ Bailey are all on record saying this, and I think a few other top-tier CBs said the same thing).  

 

Again, I like TY a lot.  However, without weapons around him, he can be taken out of games regardless of who his QB is.  Marvin was very rarely taken out of games (unless you consider the Pats game in which Ty Law was basically tackling Marvin at the line of scrimmage, a game which changed the NFL history since Polian got the rules changed that offseason to make it a lot easier on WRs than it was then).  

I agree with your HoF assessment on TY and your comparison between him and Marvin.... who, from a WR skills perspective is in very rare company even among HoFers.

 

I look at it this way.... if we were to insert a healthy TY Hilton onto a Colts offense with Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark and Edgerrin James.... and with Peyton manipulating defenses and orchestrating it all.... does he match Harrison's HoF production?

 

Highly unlikely.... but he'd have garnered much more HoF justification than he has now.... especially important with the WR-to-HoF logjams that are likely to continue as the NFL has become drunken on pass happiness.

 

As it stands now I consider TY a Pro Bowl-level WR.... when healthy.... but as his career begins to wind down, truly a long shot to ever make it into the HoF.

 

 

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6 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I think being 'unimportant' and not being HOF caliber are two different things.  Hilton has been in the league for 8 years.  He has never had more than 100 receptions in a season.  Marvin did it 4 times in his first 7 years with 94 receptions in his 8th year (TY's got 2 seasons with 82 catches, 1 with 91 and only one other with over 70 so 4 over 70 total in his first 8).  Marv led the league in receptions and receiving yards 2x during his first 8 years and had 5 seasons with over 10 TDs.  TY has never had a season with more than 7 TDs.  Marv had his year with 143 receptions when he was double or triple teamed every game.  TY can be taken out of games effectively by being double teamed.  If you go past the first 8, Marv had a stretch where he had >1,000 yards and 10+ TDs for 8 straight years (the best streak in NFL history).  I highly doubt TY's going to pull that task off considering he's never had a single season with >7 TDs.

 

Reggie had 5 of his first 8 seasons w/ >70 catches, 4 of them >80 catches and 1 with 100 catches.  He then had 3 more 100+ reception seasons later in his career.  Reggie had 10+ TDs twice in his first 8 years compared to 0 for TY.  All Marv, Reggie and TY had 5 seasons w/ >1,000 yards in their first 8 seasons.

 

TY's body also doesn't seem to be holding up all that well.  He has had injuries the past couple years which obviously impacted his play.  At his current pace, he'd likely need to last 15 seasons to make it to 1,000 receptions, which is pretty much the minimum to be considered for the HOF at the WR position unless you're someone who got hurt early and completely impacted the game (e.g., Megatron).  

 

Don't get me wrong, I like TY a lot.  He's a special player when he's healthy.  But I highly doubt he's a HOFer, especially if the QB play doesn't improve around here.

 

 

I think TY is versatile enough to move inside or outside.  He's shown he can play outside, mainly because his speed.  But yes, look at the year Marv had 143 receptions.  He was double or triple teamed every single game.  Teams knew what was coming and they couldn't stop him.  While I don't think TY's a bad route runner, Marv by many accounts was the best route runner in the game when he played (Peanut Tillman, Shawn Springs, Champ Bailey are all on record saying this, and I think a few other top-tier CBs said the same thing).  

 

Again, I like TY a lot.  However, without weapons around him, he can be taken out of games regardless of who his QB is.  Marvin was very rarely taken out of games (unless you consider the Pats game in which Ty Law was basically tackling Marvin at the line of scrimmage, a game which changed the NFL history since Polian got the rules changed that offseason to make it a lot easier on WRs than it was then).  

 

You think his numbers weren't impacted with all the injuries Andrew had to deal with? Or the lack of weapons around him? Guys like Brisett throwing to him who can't take advantage of his biggest asset. You look at the man's talent and how he impacts games and you see a HOFer.

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3 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

You think his numbers weren't impacted with all the injuries Andrew had to deal with? Or the lack of weapons around him? Guys like Brisett throwing to him who can't take advantage of his biggest asset. You look at the man's talent and how he impacts games and you see a HOFer.

 

I'm sure there has been some impact with his numbers due to injuries to Andrew.  This past year, due to injuries from other players, he didn't have a lot of a supporting cast (i.e., Ebron, Funchess, Campbell, Fountain all missing significant time likely allowed teams to hone in on TY).  That said, even with a healthy Luck and good players around him like Reggie Wayne, Fleener, Allen, etc. teams could take TY out easier than they could take Marvin out when he was in his prime.

 

Look at the 2002 year when Marv had 143 receptions.  Reggie was in his 2nd year and started just 7 games.  Edge was still coming back from injury.  We had Marcus Pollard, Joe Dean Davenport, Qadry Ishmael, and a few other names most people wouldn't remember on that team.  Marvin was by far the primary weapon with not a lot of help around him to take pressure off.  He was doubled or tripled every game and he still went out and caught ~9 balls a game.  I don't see TY being able to do that, regardless of who his QB is/was.  

 

TY certainly impacts the game.  I never said he didn't.  I just said TY's a long shot for the HOF.  Even if he had a healthy Luck the whole time, his numbers wouldn't be on par with Marvin.  Marvin literally had 8 seasons in a row with more than 82 catches.  TY's done that 3 times in 8 years, never having more than 100  catches.

 

TY has made it to 4 pro-bowls.  No first or 2nd-team All-Pros.  He lead the NFL is receiving yards once.... again, I don't dislike TY, he's just not at Marv's level and I don't care who his QB is.

 

Now let's look at Marv:

Super Bowl champion (XLI)

 

8× Pro Bowl (1999–2006)

3× First-team All-Pro (1999, 2002, 2006)

5× Second-team All-Pro (2000, 2001, 2003–2005)

2× NFL receiving yards leader (1999, 2002)

NFL receiving touchdowns co-leader (2005)

2× NFL receptions leader (2000, 2002)

NFL 2000s All-Decade Team

NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team

 

Most receptions in a 7-season period (731), 1999–2005; 8 season period (826), 1999–2006; 9 season period (885), 1998–2006; 10 season period (958), 1997–2006; 11 season period (1,022), 1996–2006

Most games in a career with at least 8 receptions (51), 9 receptions (32), 11 receptions (12), 12 receptions (8)

Most consecutive games with at least 6 receptions (16) and 9 receptions (6)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdowns (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Terrell Owens, Frank Gore

Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdowns (11) – shared with Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice, Don Hutson

Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdown receptions (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Terrell Owens

Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdown receptions (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson

Most consecutive seasons with at least 10 touchdown receptions (8)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 11 touchdown receptions (4)-tied with Lance Alworth, Art Powell

Most consecutive seasons with at least 14 touchdown receptions (2)-tied with Jerry Rice

Consecutive seasons with 1,400+ receiving yards (4); 1999–2002

Consecutive seasons with 82+ receptions (8); 1999–2006

Most games in a single season (2002) with at least 6 receptions (15), 7 receptions (12)-broken by Antonio Brown, 8 receptions (12), 9 receptions (10)-tied by Julio Jones, 11 receptions (5)

Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for most completions between a Wide Receiver and Quarterback with 953.

Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for passing touchdowns between a WR and QB with 112.

Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for passing yards between a WR and QB with 12,766.

Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for completions in a season between a WR and QB with 143 in 2002.

First player to record 2 seasons of 1,600 yards receiving in NFL history, (1999 & 2002). (Torry Holt became the 2nd, (2000 & 2003), Antonio Brown became the 3rd (2014 & 2015)).

First player to have 50+ receptions in his first 11 seasons in NFL history. (Torry Holt became the 2nd on December 27, 2009)

Most consecutive seasons of 1,000+ all-purpose yards and 10+ touchdown receptions (8), 1999–2006

On December 18, 2006, Marvin Harrison and Indianapolis Colt teammate Reggie Wayne became the only NFL wide receiver tandem to catch 75 receptions and 1,000 yards in 3 straight seasons. The game was on Monday Night and was played against the Cincinnati Bengals.

On November 17, 2002, made his 600th career reception against the Dallas Cowboys

On October 12, 2003, made his 700th career reception against the Carolina Panthers. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 114 games

On November 8, 2004, made his 800th career reception against the Minnesota Vikings. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 131 games

On November 20, 2005, made his 900th career reception against the Cincinnati Bengals. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 149 career games

On December 10, 2006, made his 1000th reception against the Jacksonville Jaguars. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 167 career games

On December 28, 2008, made his 1,100th career reception against the Tennessee Titans in his last regular season game and his last game in Indianapolis. He is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 190 career games.

Most receptions over first 7 seasons (665), 8 seasons (759), 9 seasons (845), 10 seasons (927), 11 seasons (1,022) and 13 seasons (1,102) of career of any NFL receiver

Most consecutive games with a reception to start a career (190)

Most average receptions per game in a career (5.8) – 1996–2008

Most consecutive games with 8+ receiving yards (190), (206 if counting playoffs) – every game

Most consecutive games with a 6+ yard reception (190), (206 if counting playoffs) – every game

Most consecutive games with an 8+ yard reception (177), (192 if counting playoffs)

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4 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

You think his numbers weren't impacted with all the injuries Andrew had to deal with? Or the lack of weapons around him? Guys like Brisett throwing to him who can't take advantage of his biggest asset. You look at the man's talent and how he impacts games and you see a HOFer.

All of your points are valid.... and had him and Luck been able to maintain concurrent, healthy careers.... we'd probably be having a different conversation.

 

Is TY talented enough to where he COULD have had a shot at the HoF?

 

Absolutely.... but the problem is that the selection committee stat-boys who vote players in are a picky bunch as it is.... and they won't vote a guy in on "what could have been". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I'm sure there has been some impact with his numbers due to injuries to Andrew.  This past year, due to injuries from other players, he didn't have a lot of a supporting cast (i.e., Ebron, Funchess, Campbell, Fountain all missing significant time likely allowed teams to hone in on TY).  That said, even with a healthy Luck and good players around him like Reggie Wayne, Fleener, Allen, etc. teams could take TY out easier than they could take Marvin out when he was in his prime.

 

Look at the 2002 year when Marv had 143 receptions.  Reggie was in his 2nd year and started just 7 games.  Edge was still coming back from injury.  We had Marcus Pollard, Joe Dean Davenport, Qadry Ishmael, and a few other names most people wouldn't remember on that team.  Marvin was by far the primary weapon with not a lot of help around him to take pressure off.  He was doubled or tripled every game and he still went out and caught ~9 balls a game.  I don't see TY being able to do that, regardless of who his QB is/was.  

 

TY certainly impacts the game.  I never said he didn't.  I just said TY's a long shot for the HOF.  Even if he had a healthy Luck the whole time, his numbers wouldn't be on par with Marvin.  Marvin literally had 8 seasons in a row with more than 82 catches.  TY's done that 3 times in 8 years, never having more than 100  catches.

 

TY has made it to 4 pro-bowls.  No first or 2nd-team All-Pros.  He lead the NFL is receiving yards once.... again, I don't dislike TY, he's just not at Marv's level and I don't care who his QB is.

 

Now let's look at Marv:

Super Bowl champion (XLI)

 

8× Pro Bowl (1999–2006)

3× First-team All-Pro (1999, 2002, 2006)

5× Second-team All-Pro (2000, 2001, 2003–2005)

2× NFL receiving yards leader (1999, 2002)

NFL receiving touchdowns co-leader (2005)

2× NFL receptions leader (2000, 2002)

NFL 2000s All-Decade Team

NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team

 

Most receptions in a 7-season period (731), 1999–2005; 8 season period (826), 1999–2006; 9 season period (885), 1998–2006; 10 season period (958), 1997–2006; 11 season period (1,022), 1996–2006

Most games in a career with at least 8 receptions (51), 9 receptions (32), 11 receptions (12), 12 receptions (8)

Most consecutive games with at least 6 receptions (16) and 9 receptions (6)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdowns (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Terrell Owens, Frank Gore

Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdowns (11) – shared with Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice, Don Hutson

Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdown receptions (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Terrell Owens

Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdown receptions (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson

Most consecutive seasons with at least 10 touchdown receptions (8)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 11 touchdown receptions (4)-tied with Lance Alworth, Art Powell

Most consecutive seasons with at least 14 touchdown receptions (2)-tied with Jerry Rice

Consecutive seasons with 1,400+ receiving yards (4); 1999–2002

Consecutive seasons with 82+ receptions (8); 1999–2006

Most games in a single season (2002) with at least 6 receptions (15), 7 receptions (12)-broken by Antonio Brown, 8 receptions (12), 9 receptions (10)-tied by Julio Jones, 11 receptions (5)

Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for most completions between a Wide Receiver and Quarterback with 953.

Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for passing touchdowns between a WR and QB with 112.

Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for passing yards between a WR and QB with 12,766.

Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for completions in a season between a WR and QB with 143 in 2002.

First player to record 2 seasons of 1,600 yards receiving in NFL history, (1999 & 2002). (Torry Holt became the 2nd, (2000 & 2003), Antonio Brown became the 3rd (2014 & 2015)).

First player to have 50+ receptions in his first 11 seasons in NFL history. (Torry Holt became the 2nd on December 27, 2009)

Most consecutive seasons of 1,000+ all-purpose yards and 10+ touchdown receptions (8), 1999–2006

On December 18, 2006, Marvin Harrison and Indianapolis Colt teammate Reggie Wayne became the only NFL wide receiver tandem to catch 75 receptions and 1,000 yards in 3 straight seasons. The game was on Monday Night and was played against the Cincinnati Bengals.

On November 17, 2002, made his 600th career reception against the Dallas Cowboys

On October 12, 2003, made his 700th career reception against the Carolina Panthers. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 114 games

On November 8, 2004, made his 800th career reception against the Minnesota Vikings. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 131 games

On November 20, 2005, made his 900th career reception against the Cincinnati Bengals. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 149 career games

On December 10, 2006, made his 1000th reception against the Jacksonville Jaguars. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 167 career games

On December 28, 2008, made his 1,100th career reception against the Tennessee Titans in his last regular season game and his last game in Indianapolis. He is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 190 career games.

Most receptions over first 7 seasons (665), 8 seasons (759), 9 seasons (845), 10 seasons (927), 11 seasons (1,022) and 13 seasons (1,102) of career of any NFL receiver

Most consecutive games with a reception to start a career (190)

Most average receptions per game in a career (5.8) – 1996–2008

Most consecutive games with 8+ receiving yards (190), (206 if counting playoffs) – every game

Most consecutive games with a 6+ yard reception (190), (206 if counting playoffs) – every game

Most consecutive games with an 8+ yard reception (177), (192 if counting playoffs)

 

Marv is a room in the HOF by himself, but Hilton has shown similar talent is my point. It is just unfortunate the production is backed up by the stats for the reason I have stated.

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9 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Marv is a room in the HOF by himself, but Hilton has shown similar talent is my point. It is just unfortunate the production is backed up by the stats for the reason I have stated.

 

And HOF credentials are based largely on stats... TY doesn't have them and won't have them when it's time to get voted in.  That doesn't mean TY's not a very good player, it just means he likely isn't a HOFer.  And to Marv's credit he played on some pretty bad teams his first few years in the league (there was a reason we had the #1 pick to get Peyton) and Peyton was nowhere near as good as Luck was as a rookie.  In all, TY's had similar talent around him (maybe better considering he came into the league w/ likely HOFer Reggie Wayne as a teammate and Luck's numbers are not too far off what Peyton's where back during Marv's early career) for the start of his career.  Additionally, Marv didn't really suffer any health issues until his second to last year when he blew his knee.  It seems like TY's been hobbled fairly often these past 2 years... so if I had to bet, he probably won't have as long of a career as Marv.  To get to 1,000 receptions and some other accolades needed for HOF, TY would have to likely play 15+ seasons, which I doubt happens.

 

He's a very important player for this team.  He's not a HOFer, though, barring some sort of miracle.

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1. Nelson

2. Leonard

3. Hilton

4. Castanzo

5. Kelly

6. Mack

7. Smith

8. Doyle

9. Turay

10. Ya Sin

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5 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

You think his numbers weren't impacted with all the injuries Andrew had to deal with? Or the lack of weapons around him? Guys like Brisett throwing to him who can't take advantage of his biggest asset. You look at the man's talent and how he impacts games and you see a HOFer.

He is very good.   He isn't going to the HOF

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1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

He is very good.   He isn't going to the HOF

 

Doesn't mean he's not HOF caliber talent. Still having Luck would have bettered his chances.

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18 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

And HOF credentials are based largely on stats... TY doesn't have them and won't have them when it's time to get voted in.  That doesn't mean TY's not a very good player, it just means he likely isn't a HOFer.  And to Marv's credit he played on some pretty bad teams his first few years in the league (there was a reason we had the #1 pick to get Peyton) and Peyton was nowhere near as good as Luck was as a rookie.  In all, TY's had similar talent around him (maybe better considering he came into the league w/ likely HOFer Reggie Wayne as a teammate and Luck's numbers are not too far off what Peyton's where back during Marv's early career) for the start of his career.  Additionally, Marv didn't really suffer any health issues until his second to last year when he blew his knee.  It seems like TY's been hobbled fairly often these past 2 years... so if I had to bet, he probably won't have as long of a career as Marv.  To get to 1,000 receptions and some other accolades needed for HOF, TY would have to likely play 15+ seasons, which I doubt happens.

 

He's a very important player for this team.  He's not a HOFer, though, barring some sort of miracle.

 

Im not trying to derail this thread. I believe Hilton is a HOF caliber talent even if he doesn't get in. Our current QB situation obviously isn't gonna help his case anyway.

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2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

He is very good.   He isn't going to the HOF

I agree, on my famous scale of:

Hall of Famer = Peyton, Marv, Edge, and Reggie

 

Great = For players that are borderline HOF but will never get in. I think Reggie will get in but it may take a while.

 

Very Good = Andrew Luck

 

Good = TY Hilton

 

Above Average = Derek Carr for example

 

Average = J. Brissett, played Above Average 1st 7 games in 2019

 

Below Average

 

Bad = Mike Pagel, Curtis Painter, Scott Tolzein

-I have TY in the Good category for his career. I have Andrew Luck in the Very Good category because technically he only played 6 seasons 2012-2016, 2018. Too small of a sample size to say he was Great. Andrew did have 4 solid seasons winning 4 playoff games so he is in the Very Good category at worse, especially by the eye test. Unfortunately never reached a SB. Neither TY or Andrew are Hall of Famers. Those 2 did have great chemistry though.

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2 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Doesn't mean he's not HOF caliber talent. Still having Luck would have bettered his chances.

Impossible to know

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26 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Impossible to know

 

Very true

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On 2/16/2020 at 12:01 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

We only lost one game without him because Luck was our QB most of the time and he force-fed the ball to Hilton. With Brissett, Hilton is mostly ineffective. Hilton had a lot of 150+ yard games, again, because Luck force-fed the ball to him. He also had a ton of games where he completely disappeared and had less than 50 yards. Very inconsistent receiver.

He's never been force fed, only in 2016 has Hilton gotten more than 20 more targets than the next player on the team and is pretty much always the 20th or so most targeted players.

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Q

Leonard

TY...

12 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

1. Nelson

2. Leonard

3. Hilton

4. Castanzo

5. Kelly

6. Mack

7. Smith

8. Doyle

9. Turay

10. Ya Sin

 

Noticed a few players in that this is bAsicly my list too...maybe bump Turay up two spots - I’m bullish on him.

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