Was Chuck Pagano really that bad of a HC

[CoachLite]

On 2/13/2020 at 5:54 AM, masterlock said:

He was a good man and the players were loyal to him, but no, he wasn't a great coach. Grigson was partly to blame. But Pagano didn't have what it takes 'upstairs' to be a good coach. He exhibited poor judgement. The infamous 'fake punt' is the prime example. No coach in his right mind should have ever allowed that play to take place. There's no excuse. And then there were all the other things, like preparation, play-calling and clock management. 

 

Frank Reich is a definite upgrade.

Pokey the Wonder Mule would have been an upgrade. That's not saying much for Frank Reich.

[Imgrandojji]

Yes.  The man ran Andrew Luck into the ground.

[Imgrandojji]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i7VKQwDS2s

[jvan1973]

On 2/12/2020 at 2:22 PM, Valpo2004 said:

Grigs was more responsible but Pagan made enough boneheaded decisions.  

 

The fake punt play where he didn't communicate his new wrinkle to Grif Whalen.

 

On a critical passing down towards the end of the game with Von Miller he assigned a person who is basically a backup tackle at best to block Von Miller 1 on 1 with no chip help.  That resulted in a strip sack.

 

He didn't have much to work with on defense but you kind of got the feeling that Pagano's presence wasn't really making our defense greater than the sum of it's parts.  Whereas I think both last year and this year Frank Reich's offense was clearly greater than the sum of it's parts.  And I think for the first half of last season the team was successful in part because Reich was able to cover up Brissett's defects.  

 

The other thing that I am reminded of is that Pagano's teams where remarkably inconsistent.  They would go and beat the eventual SB champs and then next week get blown out by a team that was like 2-10.  It's pretty cool of course to play above your weight class and beat some really good teams.  But at the same time Pagano's teams would lay some stinkers and lose to some of the worst teams in the league. . . and not just lose but loose BAD.  

 

I still can't forget a game against the Rams, forget what year it is, but all I remember is the Rams where coached by Jeff Fisher, where the laughing stock of the league but the Colts got completely murdered by them, lost by like 30 points.  

Regarding the Rams game.   That was a collective effort for the L.  Andrew had 3 interceptions, and a fumble returned for a TD.  Tavon Austin returned a punt for 98 yards for a TD.  Just a bad day all around

[crazycolt1]

All this whining about Pagano but yet he still had a winning record. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

He is good at checkers.

 

But that doesn't help in a chess tournament.

 

[crazycolt1]

Part of what most forget is Pagano had absolutely no depth at any positions. 

Most think he was bad at adjusting to game situations but when the talent level was as bad as it was it was impossible for him to field a talented team throughout the game.

Ballard has replaced virtually every player left over from Pagano's team. That in itself showed the lack of talent this team possessed when Pagano was here. 

His first three years we were 11-5 all three seasons. Then the lack of talent, key injuries and bad drafts caught up to a team that was lacking depth. 

It's pretty easy to sit at your TV and judge things when the reality is most don't have a clue.

I don't mean that as an insult or knocking anyone but it is true. 

 

[The Fish]

18 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Part of what most forget is Pagano had absolutely no depth at any positions. 

Most think he was bad at adjusting to game situations but when the talent level was as bad as it was it was impossible for him to field a talented team throughout the game.

Ballard has replaced virtually every player left over from Pagano's team. That in itself showed the lack of talent this team possessed when Pagano was here. 

His first three years we were 11-5 all three seasons. Then the lack of talent, key injuries and bad drafts caught up to a team that was lacking depth. 

It's pretty easy to sit at your TV and judge things when the reality is most don't have a clue.

I don't mean that as an insult or knocking anyone but it is true. 

 

I mean maybe your sorta right, but not right enough to be calling out everyone who's arrived at what was obviously true by the end of the tenure. He wasn't motivating anyone and dysfunction was abound. The team was bad as you noted, but that's more than the metric of talent.

Pagano was never more than a 8-8 guy on his merit. Thank Luck for the winning record.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

I mean maybe your sorta right, but not right enough to be calling out everyone who's arrived at what was obviously true by the end of the tenure. He wasn't motivating anyone and dysfunction was abound. The team was bad as you noted, but that's more than the metric of talent.

Pagano was never more than a 8-8 guy on his merit. Thank Luck for the winning record.

I do not agree. The three 11-5 starts prove that. Advancing deeper into the playoffs each of those three years also shows that.

Fans blaming the head coach for losses is real easy without looking at why things happen. 

 

[The Fish]

7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I do not agree. The three 11-5 starts prove that. Advancing deeper into the playoffs each of those three years also shows that.

Fans blaming the head coach for losses is real easy without looking at why things happen. 

 

Feel free to not agree, but I think it's pretty transparently clear as water that Andrew Luck is why that era's squads weren't bottom feeders. Disappointing stuff really.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

no, talent decides games more than coaches

[basspapaw]

He sucked 

[dodsworth]

I thought we beat this horse to death years ago.  yes, yes he sucked.

He was way over his head from the start and Luck made him look 

better than he actually was.

[colt18]

On 2/14/2020 at 1:39 PM, crazycolt1 said:

I do not agree. The three 11-5 starts prove that. Advancing deeper into the playoffs each of those three years also shows that.

Fans blaming the head coach for losses is real easy without looking at why things happen. 

 

Pagano himself disagrees with your post.

 

Quote

"He's in a great place. I love Andrew Luck. He got me more years than I probably deserved. He's a phenom."

 

 

Pagano sucked at in game adjustments, motivation and game planning. I wouldn't say he is the worst coach ever but he provided minimal value to the team, although Grigson significantly hampered his ceiling with this team.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, colt18 said:

Pagano himself disagrees with your post.

 

 

 

Pagano sucked at in game adjustments, motivation and game planning. I wouldn't say he is the worst coach ever but he provided minimal value to the team, although Grigson significantly hampered his ceiling with this team.

Pagano always took the blame for his players. That is why every player that played for him loved the guy. He has never made excuses or threw one of his players under the bus.

Like I said- His game adjustments were hampered by the lack of talent. 

What you are failing to realise is that Pagano was a first time head coach when he joined the Colts. He still didn't have a losing record and was not even close to being as bad as most think in this forum. Just because the fans want a scrape goat does not mean he deserved being one. 

[CurBeatElite]

On 2/12/2020 at 9:45 AM, MTC said:

 

You can look at it in two ways. One is Grigson wasn't able to draft quality players, and Pagano wasn't able to do much with them. On the other hand, Grigson drafted players with talent, but Pagano wasn't able to develop them.

 

Either way, the pairing didn't work out.

 

Well, there were rumors that Grigs would go over Pagano's head with decisions.  It sounds like they are mostly true.  For example, Grigs made the T-Richardson trade.  The guy was awful, but rumors were that Pagano wanted to bench him but Grigson wouldn't let him.  

 

I don't know if you follow Pat McAfee's show, but he bashes Grigson still to this day.  He said the working environment around that guy was just terrible.  Imagine being a head coach and being told by your GM, you can't bench so-and-so for his performance because it'd hurt the GM's ego.  I believe that's why Pagano was allowed to stay a year after Grigs, because Irsay realized how bad a choice he made hiring Grigs and wanted to see what Pags could do without Grigson calling his shots.

 

On 2/14/2020 at 11:13 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Part of what most forget is Pagano had absolutely no depth at any positions. 

Most think he was bad at adjusting to game situations but when the talent level was as bad as it was it was impossible for him to field a talented team throughout the game.

Ballard has replaced virtually every player left over from Pagano's team. That in itself showed the lack of talent this team possessed when Pagano was here. 

His first three years we were 11-5 all three seasons. Then the lack of talent, key injuries and bad drafts caught up to a team that was lacking depth. 

It's pretty easy to sit at your TV and judge things when the reality is most don't have a clue.

I don't mean that as an insult or knocking anyone but it is true. 

 

 

I agree that we did not have much depth.  We also had several positions that just had low quality players because of Grigson.  Grigson overspent on a lot of FAs like Landry, RJF, Walden (at least for his first couple years), etc.  Then he went out and tried to be a hero by signing guys like Adongo and letting them have roster spots.

 

However, I think a big part of the reason Ballard has cleaned house has to do with scheme fits.  We have a way different scheme in all 3 phases of the game with the new regime.  There are several guys who have left and have been pretty good on other teams: (1) Frank Gore -- doesn't really count since he's a lock to be 1st ballot HOF, (2) Phillip Dorsett is much better in NE than he ever was in Indy, (3) Austin Blythe is the starting RG for St. Louis, (4) Jonnathan Harrison I believe started for the Jets last year, (5) Denzell Good is pretty good for OAK, (6) Henry Anderson is all right for NYJ, (7) Hassan Ridgeway was having a decent year in Philly before he got hurt..... so it's not like all Pagano had was garbage.  He certainly didn't have a good OL or good depth across the board, though, which I think is largely Grigson's fault.

[colt18]

On 2/17/2020 at 2:57 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Pagano always took the blame for his players. That is why every player that played for him loved the guy. He has never made excuses or threw one of his players under the bus.

Like I said- His game adjustments were hampered by the lack of talent. 

What you are failing to realise is that Pagano was a first time head coach when he joined the Colts. He still didn't have a losing record and was not even close to being as bad as most think in this forum. Just because the fans want a scrape goat does not mean he deserved being one. 

You’re literally arguing against Paganos own words. 

[crazycolt1]

7 hours ago, colt18 said:

You’re literally arguing against Paganos own words. 

If that is what you think I did you didn't comprehend what I did say. 

Pagano was not the kind of head coach who pointed fingers or threw his players under the bus. How much more plainer can it be said? 

[coming on strong]

chuck was one of the best head coaches we ever had.    Grigson gave chuck the worst talent ever.  How is it the coaches fault when players can't execute the plays .Chuck did try new things , when our defense was getting burned on man he would switch to zone .  EVery thing he tried the players were at fault.  Bottom 5 offensive line , defense , running game , wrs were all old .  Andrew luck being hurt always .  I remember luck going  out and we still won 4 games with jacoby who is horrible a bottom 5 defense offensive line and running game.   Even with a top 5 offensive line better defense and great running game this year we won only 3 more games .  in 2017 jacoby had no offseason learned the play book in 2 weeks

[coming on strong]

i loved chucks chopping wood comments .  Listening to chucks speeches made me want to put on a helmet and play .  He fired guys up to play hard for him . He motivated the whole team . Chuck strong is legend top 10 coach in nfl when he was with us.

[colt18]

10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

If that is what you think I did you didn't comprehend what I did say. 

Pagano was not the kind of head coach who pointed fingers or threw his players under the bus. How much more plainer can it be said? 

You cant spin away from the fact that Pagano has gone on record to say Luck was more so responsible for the Colts success under him. How much more plainer can that be said?

[crazycolt1]

10 hours ago, colt18 said:

You cant spin away from the fact that Pagano has gone on record to say Luck was more so responsible for the Colts success under him. How much more plainer can that be said?

Really? So every head coach in the league has a QB who either gets wins or don't.

The QB does not do anything without a team around him. 

If it has to be explained to you about team depth and the talent level drop off  then I suggest taking a course in football 101. 

All you want to do at this point is argue. No thanks, there is nothing more to say that hasn't already been said too many times. 

[colt18]

On 2/19/2020 at 8:50 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Really? So every head coach in the league has a QB who either gets wins or don't.

The QB does not do anything without a team around him. 

If it has to be explained to you about team depth and the talent level drop off  then I suggest taking a course in football 101. 

All you want to do at this point is argue. No thanks, there is nothing more to say that hasn't already been said too many times. 

Nope. Stop posting nonsense. Pagano has admitted that Luck is more responsible for wins than himself during his tenure. That's the bottom line.

[DEColtsLover36]

On 2/18/2020 at 11:38 AM, crazycolt1 said:

If that is what you think I did you didn't comprehend what I did say. 

Pagano was not the kind of head coach who pointed fingers or threw his players under the bus. How much more plainer can it be said? 

There was that time he criticized Luck after that loss to the Jets... saying things like “it’s not that hard, it’s not trigonometry” and after three years, Luck should “be more comfortable” dealing with the pressure. He tried to clean it up in a later interview but it didn’t make much sense. I’m definitely not trying to argue with you or anyone who thinks he was a great coach, I personally didn’t care for him but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just wanted to point out that he was not a 100% saint when it comes to blaming players. Certainly could have been frustration getting to him, and it wasn’t often, but he did do it.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, colt18 said:

Nope. Stop posting nonsense. Pagano has admitted that Luck is more responsible for wins than himself during his tenure. That's the bottom line.

Well a QB getting their teams wins must be a new concept for head coaches? 

And you call my opinion nonsense? 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, DEColtsLover36 said:

There was that time he criticized Luck after that loss to the Jets... saying things like “it’s not that hard, it’s not trigonometry” and after three years, Luck should “be more comfortable” dealing with the pressure. He tried to clean it up in a later interview but it didn’t make much sense. I’m definitely not trying to argue with you or anyone who thinks he was a great coach, I personally didn’t care for him but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just wanted to point out that he was not a 100% saint when it comes to blaming players. Certainly could have been frustration getting to him, and it wasn’t often, but he did do it.

You mean he was only human? 

Most in here don't give him that credit.

[RollerColt]

10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

You mean he was only human? 

Most in here don't give him that credit.

Boy isn't that the truth... 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

He sucked.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

On 2/12/2020 at 4:58 PM, MTC said:

There were too many games to count where the team looked unprepared and outmatched, which resulted in blowout losses. 

Yep, lucky that we don’t see that anymore!