PFF 2020 NFL Two-Round Mock Draft - Colts get a QB

[stitches]

Well here's the PFF's mock:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pff-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-trade-tua-tagovailoa

 

Colts trade down with the Cowboys from 13 to 17 and select.... 

Quote

 

17. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS (VIA DALLAS COWBOYS) — EDGE A.J. EPENESA, IOWA

Colts General Manager Chris Ballard lives to move down and accumulate more picks in the draft. Epenesa rarely flashed the on-field dominance that his immense physical tools at 6-foot-5, 280 pounds would suggest, but he was consistent against both the run and pass. His versatility would be the perfect addition to the Colts' defensive line.

 

 

And then the Colts go QB with the WAS pick in the second round:

Quote

 

34. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS (VIA WASHINGTON REDSKINS) – QB JAKE FROMM, GEORGIA

Fromm started out the season like a house on fire before limping into the barn in SEC play. He finished with a sub-50 completion percentage in five of his last six games. Fromm’s greatest strength, though, is the ability to not put the ball in harm’s way, as he had just seven turnover-worthy plays all last season.

 

 

Then the Colts go WR with their own second round pick:

Quote

 

44. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS – WR BRANDON AIYUK, ARIZONA STATE

Colts GM Chris Ballard loves players with length, and Aiyuk may have one of the freakiest builds the NFL has ever seen at wide receiver. Not even 6-foot tall, Aiyuk still sports an 81-inch wingspan (six feet, nine inches). That was longer than any other receivers at the Senior Bowl that included four wideouts over 6-foot-3.

 

 

So what say you, Colts nation? 

 

 

[coltsblue1844]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Well here's the PFF's mock:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pff-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-trade-tua-tagovailoa

 

Colts trade down with the Cowboys from 13 to 17 and select.... 

 

And then the Colts go QB with the WAS pick in the second round:

 

Then the Colts go WR with their own second round pick:

 

So what say you, Colts nation? 

 

 

 I would rather stay at 13 and either draft Kinlaw or Wirfs (depending on our LT situation at that time), but I am happy with Fromm in the 2nd... think i would rather have Reagor at WR, but i dont know much about Aiyuk, other than what they put on the mock draft.

[Barry Sears]

Doesn't do much for me, but we don't know what we get for the trade with Dallas...another 2nd round pick?  That may change my opinion.

[EastStreet]

Fromm is about the last QB I want....

[lollygagger8]

[Clem-Dog]

3 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

Doesn't do much for me, but we don't know what we get for the trade with Dallas...another 2nd round pick?

Agreed.  It's kind of important to know the return in a trade that involves passing on Kinlaw.  

[Fisticuffs111]

Oof. Epenesa and Aiyuk are both guys I’m wary of. But they do both seem like Ballard picks.

 

Frankly, I kinda hope we move away from the super athletic/super raw prospects. I know that’s doubtful though considering his philosophy.

[EastStreet]

28 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is such a bad draft. Been hearing alot about how AJ is another tweeter like Lewis. No thanks. We don’t need another guy like that. 

[DougDew]

Fromm's got everything we need, but there are questions about height, hand size, and arm strength.  If he fails those, then a hard pass.

 

For me, its really about the physicals.  If he passes them, hopefully with ease, then there is little reason not to like him, IMO.  And 34 would be a good spot.

 

Not sure about the EDGE.  If Epenesa is a sure thing, as much as any EDGE ever is, then it's a good pick.  If he's one of those high traits and high ceiling guys who currently needs work, PASS.

[stitches]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Fromm's got everything we need, but there are questions about height, hand size, and arm strength.  If he fails those, then a hard pass.

 

For me, its really about the physicals.  If he passes them, hopefully with ease, then there is little reason not to like him, IMO.  And 34 would be a good spot.

 

Not sure about the EDGE.  If Epenesa is a sure thing, as much as any EDGE ever is, then it's a good pick.  If he's one of those high traits and high ceiling guys who currently needs work, PASS.

What would be a fail in your books? 

[EastStreet]

41 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Fromm's got everything we need, but there are questions about height, hand size, and arm strength.  If he fails those, then a hard pass.

 

For me, its really about the physicals.  If he passes them, hopefully with ease, then there is little reason not to like him, IMO.  And 34 would be a good spot.

 

Not sure about the EDGE.  If Epenesa is a sure thing, as much as any EDGE ever is, then it's a good pick.  If he's one of those high traits and high ceiling guys who currently needs work, PASS.

He's a good decision maker, but his arm strength stinks, and his deep ball is horrible. No mobility either. 

 

He's at best a game manager. Is that really everything we need?

[BProland85]

Not a fan of this at all.

[Yoshinator]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Well here's the PFF's mock:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pff-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-trade-tua-tagovailoa

 

Colts trade down with the Cowboys from 13 to 17 and select.... 

 

And then the Colts go QB with the WAS pick in the second round:

 

Then the Colts go WR with their own second round pick:

 

So what say you, Colts nation? 

 

 

Love Epenesa and Aiyuk. Hate Fromm. If you switched Fromm to Gallimore or Anthony Gordon, I'd love it.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Oof. Epenesa and Aiyuk are both guys I’m wary of. But they do both seem like Ballard picks.

 

Frankly, I kinda hope we move away from the super athletic/super raw prospects. I know that’s doubtful though considering his philosophy.

 

That is why Polian hit a lot of early round picks, because he believed in "football players", guys that may not fly out of the gym but had high football IQ that placed them at the right spots at the right time more often than not, with good college production. Early round prospects (Day 1 and Day 2), I'd prefer "football players that have shown a potential ceiling" over "raw without much ceiling shown". QBs, however, have to be slightly treated differently since there is work that needs to be done on any QB prospect coming in, whether from the SEC or Big 10 or wherever. 

 

Raw skill position prospects amongst WRs and RBs, save them for later rounds on Day 3 like Pierre Garcon, because some work out, and some don't.

[shasta519]

My thoughts...

 

Not a fan...I don't want Fromm...especially with that top pick in the 2nd round. Would much rather take Eason later...but really don't want either. If you are passing on Love...you are likely punting QB early for this draft (in which case Ballard is probably thinking about how he can get premium draft capital for next year...which would require trading down much further than #18). 

 

But I don't see how you pass on Love there...if you think there's a better than 50% chance he's your guy...draft him. I think the gap in NFL potential between Love and Fromm is an ocean. 

 

And if you are feeling lucky and do trade back...and he's still there (after TB passes)...then you take him and thank your lucky stars for the extra pick. OR you start working feverishly to move up from #34 to get in the early 20s before you make you make that pick at #17...because he like isn't getting past NO/NE.

 

But I don't even understand the trade back...for what...a 3rd round pick? In this scenario they obviously aren't targeting Love (since they didn't take him)...so then they are gambling that both Kinlaw and Epenesa will still be there after three more picks...which if they are truly the prospects they are being touted as...then that's a big risk. If it doesn't work...you are left picking from a huge pool of similarly-ranked players (imo)...and all you have to show for it is pick #82 (maybe...could even be less). 

 

I am also not even sure about Epenesa. He is an impressive player...but I think he could be more of a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DE. Versatility doesn't always equate to impact.

 

I do like the WR pick. But there are a half dozen WRs I like...so I hope they are planning to draft a couple of them.

 

All in all...does not seem like the type of moves that would set the Colts up to compete in the near future...which given the resources they have right now...that should be the main goal of this offseason (imo)...because they likely aren't going to have these going forward.

[shasta519]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

That is why Polian hit a lot of early round picks, because he believed in "football players", guys that may not fly out of the gym but had high football IQ that placed them at the right spots at the right time more often than not, with good college production. Early round prospects (Day 1 and Day 2), I'd prefer "football players that have shown a potential ceiling" over "raw without much ceiling shown". QBs, however, have to be slightly treated differently since there is work that needs to be done on any QB prospect coming in, whether from the SEC or Big 10 or wherever. 

 

Raw skill position prospects amongst WRs and RBs, save them for later rounds on Day 3 like Pierre Garcon, because some work out, and some don't.

 

Polian might not have picked raw players...but they were definitely guys that would fly out of the gym.

 

Freeney, Sanders, Hughes, Clark, Wayne, AGon, Donald Brown...even Addai...were all very athletic relative to their positions...and many exceptionally so.

[ty4atd]

I'd love the Espenesa pick he's a perfect Ballard pick a long DE that can play the weak side and shut down the run aswell as being able to move inside, mich like an upgraded Autry in 2018. Fromm would be a decent pick, I doubt he will be nearly as good, He reminds me of Dalton but he also has a similar draft profile as Brees when he was drafted. I'd prefer Eason but really don't want Love in the 1st as an armchair GM. I don't know much about Aiyuk so no comment on that pick.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Who comes up with this stuff. That is NOT happening!!

[Jdubu]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

Well here's the PFF's mock:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pff-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-trade-tua-tagovailoa

 

Colts trade down with the Cowboys from 13 to 17 and select.... 

 

And then the Colts go QB with the WAS pick in the second round:

 

Then the Colts go WR with their own second round pick:

 

So what say you, Colts nation? 

 

 

I do not like this scenario at all. Epenesa sounds a lot like Sheard. Decent at both skills but not dominant. I’d prefer to go different route and as of now, I’m not a fan of Fromm and what’s been written on him. Surely we can do better. 

[TheBlueAndWhite]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is such a bad draft. Been hearing alot about how AJ is another tweeter like Lewis. No thanks. We don’t need another guy like that. 

I get serious Bjoern Warner vibes from aj, no bueno 

[Thunderbolt]

I like the part where you draft a QB(Fromm) for the 34th pick, but everything else is up in the air.

Get K'lavon Chaisson instead of Epenesa in the 13th.

[buccolts]

Hmm, or, in this scenario, Love @17, Jefferson @34, and Gallimore @44.

And not sign of the other pick we got from Dallas. 

I'm not liking it.

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

What would be a fail in your books? 

I wouldn't know specifically.  I remember Polian had a benchmark for RBs.  They had to run a minimum 4.6 or else they simply had trouble with NFL speed.  I think Russell Wilson's height was seen as a problem, but his abundance of mobility offset that shortness since he could find throwing lanes.  With Fromm, I would say not any one measurement would be a deal killer but if he's less than 6'1 and .25 AND ranks low on the velocity and spiral stats I would say pass.  Maybe draft him in the 3rd if he's there.

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

He's a good decision maker, but his arm strength stinks, and his deep ball is horrible. No mobility either. 

 

He's at best a game manager. Is that really everything we need?

I think those two traits are pretty far down the list of important traits, though.  Knowing where to throw the ball and being accurate when throwing it are by far the two most important traits.  He strikes me as being more mobile than he shows.  I think he's probably been coached, and also inherently realizes, that the best chances a QB has for the team to advance down the field is to stay ion the pocket as long as possible and not escape it unless absolutely necessary.  I think PM was always more mobile than he showed precisely for that reason.  I think the more modern QBs, even Mahomes, tend to leave the pocket too quickly.

 

I want a game manager, at least that rather than a gun slinger.  Unless its less than 2 minutes of each half and we need a TD, then he doesn't need to take the team on his back.  And that's where knowing where to throw the ball quickly and accurately still takes precedent over throwing it long.  Other than the last two minutes, if a QB has to strap the team to his back routinely to win games, then that roster sucks, IMO.  

 

One thing is evident, he is not scared to throw the ball, like JB is, IMO.  And that's a good thing especially since the number of throws he put at risk of being picked is also low.

 

One other thing about Fromm.  Compare 2018 to 2019, as we do with Love, whom we make excuses for in 2019.  Also, Fromm's completion percentage was impacted in 2019 by playing at least two games in driving rain storms.....  SEC you know...at least that's what I read.

 

 

[atapcl]

6 hours ago, stitches said:

Well here's the PFF's mock:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pff-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-trade-tua-tagovailoa

 

Colts trade down with the Cowboys from 13 to 17 and select.... 

 

And then the Colts go QB with the WAS pick in the second round:

 

Then the Colts go WR with their own second round pick:

 

So what say you, Colts nation? 

 

 

I would be disappointed with those picks.

[Zoltan]

I don't like any of these picks, from what I read about AJ he isn't a good fit, and we need interior DL help more than DE, which isn't addressed in this mock and Fromm is another Andy Dalton style player which will put us in NFL purgatory for 4-10 years maybe make the playoffs but never win a playoff game. Lastly I think we need to address OT with that 44th pick getting a player that can provide good depth and be groomed to take over the LT position.

[EastStreet]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

I think those two traits are pretty far down the list of important traits, though.  Knowing where to throw the ball and being accurate when throwing it are by far the two most important traits.  He strikes me as being more mobile than he shows.  I think he's probably been coached, and also inherently realizes, that the best chances a QB has for the team to advance down the field is to stay ion the pocket as long as possible and not escape it unless absolutely necessary.  I think PM was always more mobile than he showed precisely for that reason.  I think the more modern QBs, even Mahomes, tend to leave the pocket too quickly.

Having a weak arm and unable to throw a decent deep ball is not important???? You're being serious? That gives every D in the league the license to cheat up every single plya/game and shorten the field. And the guy's lack of mobility won't translate well to the NFL. Not saying he needs to be a running threat, but he does need to be able to elude since he has limited arm strength. His AVG and or ANY/A will be horrible. 

 

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

I want a game manager, at least that rather than a gun slinger.  Unless its less than 2 minutes of each half and we need a TD, then he doesn't need to take the team on his back.  And that's where knowing where to throw the ball quickly and accurately still takes precedent over throwing it long.  Other than the last two minutes, if a QB has to strap the team to his back routinely to win games, then that roster sucks, IMO.

There's a huge delta between a game manager and a gun slinger. And you'd be in the small minority of fans across the NFL that would be happy with a game manager. The guy is super duper ultra conservative. Drafting him would create a situation like the JB fan club prefers, which is build every single other position to make up for the deficiencies in the passing game.

 

Even UGA fans wish they would have kept Fields. They hated the O with Fromm.

 

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

One thing is evident, he is not scared to throw the ball, like JB is, IMO.  And that's a good thing especially since the number of throws he put at risk of being picked is also low.

He is absolutely afraid to throw the ball. If it isn't short and wide open, he's more likely to throw it away. He had one of the best OLs in CFB, and had a bunch of 5 star WRs and TEs to throw to, and was still ultra conservative and fearful of throwing into tight windows. He also has issues when rushed to throw the ball. He's decent when things go his way (has time, has an open short or intermediate open pass catcher), but not good at all when pushed.

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

One other thing about Fromm.  Compare 2018 to 2019, as we do with Love, whom we make excuses for in 2019.  Also, Fromm's completion percentage was impacted in 2019 by playing at least two games in driving rain storms.....  SEC you know...at least that's what I read.

LOL..... Let's look at the SEC Championship.... Burrow was 74%.... Fromm was 47.6%........

His last 4 regular season games were under 50%....

 

Must have rained for like 5 weeks straight lol...

 

By the way, I live in GA... I watch UGA almost every week so long as they're not on at the same time as ND....

[DownHillRunner]

What is so special about Epenesa? Tell me! Dude doesn't look like anything special and Aiyuk is rated the 8th best WR in this draft  and has a 3rd round grade. 

 

 

Fromm looks like a Patriots type Quarterback all the way. Belichick would love to get his hands on him. 

[ScotColt]

Would not be happy with this. As many have said as well, what the hell did we get in the Dallas trade there? lol what kind of mock draft doesn't give the details of a trade. 

[EastStreet]

5 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

What is so special about Epenesa? Tell me! Dude doesn't look like anything special and Aiyuk is rated the 8th best WR in this draft  and has a 3rd round grade. 

 

 

Fromm looks like a Patriots type Quarterback all the way. Belichick would love to get his hands on him. 

I agree on Epenesa being overrated. Way overrated...... I disagree on Fromm to the Pats though. If Brady is going to be there, then I absolutely think he's a guy BB would take in the middle rounds as a safe/cheap backup. I don't see BB however taking him with replacing Brady in mind.

[OffensivelyPC]

19 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Fromm is about the last QB I want....

He's like, the same QB as Brissett, except several years younger. 

[DougDew]

7 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Having a weak arm and unable to throw a decent deep ball is not important???? You're being serious? That gives every D in the league the license to cheat up every single plya/game and shorten the field. And the guy's lack of mobility won't translate well to the NFL. Not saying he needs to be a running threat, but he does need to be able to elude since he has limited arm strength. His AVG and or ANY/A will be horrible. 

 

There's a huge delta between a game manager and a gun slinger. And you'd be in the small minority of fans across the NFL that would be happy with a game manager. The guy is super duper ultra conservative. Drafting him would create a situation like the JB fan club prefers, which is build every single other position to make up for the deficiencies in the passing game.

 

Even UGA fans wish they would have kept Fields. They hated the O with Fromm.

 

He is absolutely afraid to throw the ball. If it isn't short and wide open, he's more likely to throw it away. He had one of the best OLs in CFB, and had a bunch of 5 star WRs and TEs to throw to, and was still ultra conservative and fearful of throwing into tight windows. He also has issues when rushed to throw the ball. He's decent when things go his way (has time, has an open short or intermediate open pass catcher), but not good at all when pushed.

LOL..... Let's look at the SEC Championship.... Burrow was 74%.... Fromm was 47.6%........

His last 4 regular season games were under 50%....

 

Must have rained for like 5 weeks straight lol...

 

By the way, I live in GA... I watch UGA almost every week so long as they're not on at the same time as ND....

You're defining the conversation by bringing up the label of a "game manager" and the notion that he can't throw the ball long at all.  Those thoughts are extreme.  He's not Chad Pennington or an old Matt Hasselbeck. 

 

A QB only has to hit a few long-er passes during the game to be effective.  He doesn't have to hit a bunch of chunk plays during a game unless he's carrying a roster that needs to score 31 points a game.  And with those long attempts comes more incompletions....3 and outs....IOW, turnover of possession.  Trying to get chunk plays is not a good strategy when playing teams like KC.  No team is going to win against KC by going toe-to-toe with them.  You take the TEN and SF model, and the model we used when we beat them (which was aided by a leveling of the talent)

 

When PM hit the chunk plays, they were within the confines of the offense.  They were not broken play "playmaker" stuff.

 

I don't see where Fromm is afraid at all.  He has thrown more back shoulder passes to covered WRs down the sideline....NFL stuff....than any QB in college, IMO.  He puts those throws on the money, 15 to 20 yards in the air.  And he's throwing them to WRs who are not that good relative to the SEC, evidenced by the fact that UGA doesn't send WRs to the NFL.   OTOH, most college QBs throw to receivers that are wide open....or run when they are not.  Contrast that to say, Tua, who has three WRs on the roster who would go in the top 50 picks.  Burrow has what, 2, plus a sophomore who is better than both.  And Moss the TE.

 

I blame HC Kirby Smart for any problems the offense has, especially philosophy, than I do Fromm's limitations.  But he's not a multi dimensional playmaker mold, that's a label that's accurate.

 

Fields is a playmaker at OSU, no doubt.  In the NFL, that can mean a lot of negative plays, unfortunately. Mahomes is probably one of a kind more than the beginning of a trend, IMO.  I think its terribly misguided to try to find the next one.

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He's like, the same QB as Brissett, except several years younger. 

Good Gawd.  Fromm knows where to throw the ball, actually throws it, and is accurate.  That's three ways he's head and shoulders above JB.

 

I'm not a big Fromm fan, despite my defense of the guy.  Its just that he seems to be placed as an after thought, with people even liking Gordon better.  Fromm belongs in the conversation as much as any QB.  Its just a matter of where the value is.  I'd say its late 1 to mid 2, about the same value as Love or Eason.  The other two have better traits and resume in some areas, but weaker in other areas too.

[EastStreet]

44 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He's like, the same QB as Brissett, except several years younger. 

Kinda sorta, from a conservative perspective. But JB has a cannon, it's just not an accurate cannon. Fromm is accurate, he just has a noodle arm.

[OffensivelyPC]

34 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Good Gawd.  Fromm knows where to throw the ball, actually throws it, and is accurate.  That's three ways he's head and shoulders above JB.

 

I'm not a big Fromm fan, despite my defense of the guy.  Its just that he seems to be placed as an after thought, with people even liking Gordon better.  Fromm belongs in the conversation as much as any QB.  Its just a matter of where the value is.  I'd say its late 1 to mid 2, about the same value as Love or Eason.  The other two have better traits and resume in some areas, but weaker in other areas too.

 

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Kinda sorta, from a conservative perspective. But JB has a cannon, it's just not an accurate cannon. Fromm is accurate, he just has a noodle arm.

I said that a little tongue in cheek, with the punch line being, basically, all we get is short and safe with JB and Fromm's game is pretty much the same short and safe.  The how that happens might look a little different, but neither guy really challenges defenses downfield and will out of their way to put the ball away from harm.  That kind of stuff is great, when you have a comfortable lead, not when you're down and need points quick. 

 

It's for that reason I am apprehensive on Fromm.  I'm not saying we need a guy to light up the scoreboard, but he's got to be able ot recognize and hit targets all over the field or we'll just end up moving on from him because teams don't have to defend space that isn't a threat.  That's what started happening to Jacoby, and if Fromm sticks to what he knows, his utility basically tops out the same as Jacoby's - a quality backup.

[pacolts56]

21 hours ago, stitches said:

Well here's the PFF's mock:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pff-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-trade-tua-tagovailoa

 

Colts trade down with the Cowboys from 13 to 17 and select.... 

 

And then the Colts go QB with the WAS pick in the second round:

 

Then the Colts go WR with their own second round pick:

 

So what say you, Colts nation? 

 

 

Pffffffff!!!! 

[EastStreet]

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You're defining the conversation by bringing up the label of a "game manager" and the notion that he can't throw the ball long at all.  Those thoughts are extreme.  He's not Chad Pennington or an old Matt Hasselbeck. 

He's got a noodle arm. I've watched him enough to know and I'm sure every draft profile out there will list arm strength as a negative. He's a great facilitator (pre snap read, audible out, etc.), he just doesn't have the arm strength needed at the NFL level. He's a pro-style QB without a weak arm. That simply equates to game manager. Those are not extreme thoughts. 

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

A QB only has to hit a few long-er passes during the game to be effective.  He doesn't have to hit a bunch of chunk plays during a game unless he's carrying a roster that needs to score 31 points a game.  And with those long attempts comes more incompletions....3 and outs....IOW, turnover of possession.  Trying to get chunk plays is not a good strategy when playing teams like KC.  No team is going to win against KC by going toe-to-toe with them.  You take the TEN and SF model, and the model we used when we beat them (which was aided by a leveling of the talent)

TEN and SF lost... It's well documented what they were missing (OL, 2 best WRs, QB hobbled) when we beat them, so it's not relevant.

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

When PM hit the chunk plays, they were within the confines of the offense.  They were not broken play "playmaker" stuff.

PM had an arm.

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

I don't see where Fromm is afraid at all.  He has thrown more back shoulder passes to covered WRs down the sideline....NFL stuff....than any QB in college, IMO.  He puts those throws on the money, 15 to 20 yards in the air.  And he's throwing them to WRs who are not that good relative to the SEC, evidenced by the fact that UGA doesn't send WRs to the NFL.   OTOH, most college QBs throw to receivers that are wide open....or run when they are not.  Contrast that to say, Tua, who has three WRs on the roster who would go in the top 50 picks.  Burrow has what, 2, plus a sophomore who is better than both.  And Moss the TE.

You obviously don't know a lot about UGA's roster. 

 

Here's their to 4 pass catchers...

George Pickens - 5 star, true frosh. #4 WR in the country

Demetrius Robertson - 5 star, junior, #1 WR in the country

Dominick Blaylock - 4/5 star, true frosh, #5 WR in the country

Lawrence Cager - only a 4 star, senior, top 25 WR

 

That's 3 WRs that were rated top 5 in the nation.... lol... And then add in Swift as a pass catcher.

 

UGA WRs have suffered (NFL wise) due to their O scheme and QBs, but they have several good and great receivers in the NFL. AJ Green (CIN). Mecole Hardman (KC), Chris Conley (Jax), Isaiah McKenzie, Riley Ridley, Javon Wims... Most of those WRs are on teams with bad QBs, so likely why you haven't heard of them. Also, back to UGA, if they had a QB or scheme good for WRs, you'd see guys like Pickens, Robertson, Blaylock, and Cager's names all over ESPN.

 

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

I blame HC Kirby Smart for any problems the offense has, especially philosophy, than I do Fromm's limitations.  But he's not a multi dimensional playmaker mold, that's a label that's accurate.

 

Fields is a playmaker at OSU, no doubt.  In the NFL, that can mean a lot of negative plays, unfortunately. Mahomes is probably one of a kind more than the beginning of a trend, IMO.  I think its terribly misguided to try to find the next one.

If UGA had Fields, they would have likely won the NC... And their WRs would be household names. Instead they have run first Kirby, and noodle arm Fromm. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

He's got a noodle arm. I've watched him enough to know and I'm sure every draft profile out there will list arm strength as a negative. He's a great facilitator (pre snap read, audible out, etc.), he just doesn't have the arm strength needed at the NFL level. He's a pro-style QB without a weak arm. That simply equates to game manager. Those are not extreme thoughts. 

TEN and SF lost... It's well documented what they were missing (OL, 2 best WRs, QB hobbled) when we beat them, so it's not relevant.

PM had an arm.

You obviously don't know a lot about UGA's roster. 

 

Here's their to 4 pass catchers...

George Pickens - 5 star, true frosh. #4 WR in the country

Demetrius Robertson - 5 star, junior, #1 WR in the country

Dominick Blaylock - 4/5 star, true frosh, #5 WR in the country

Lawrence Cager - only a 4 star, senior, top 25 WR

 

That's 3 WRs that were rated top 5 in the nation.... lol... And then add in Swift as a pass catcher.

 

UGA WRs have suffered (NFL wise) due to their O scheme and QBs, but they have several good and great receivers in the NFL. AJ Green (CIN). Mecole Hardman (KC), Chris Conley (Jax), Isaiah McKenzie, Riley Ridley, Javon Wims... Most of those WRs are on teams with bad QBs, so likely why you haven't heard of them. Also, back to UGA, if they had a QB or scheme good for WRs, you'd see guys like Pickens, Robertson, Blaylock, and Cager's names all over ESPN.

 

If UGA had Fields, they would have likely won the NC... And their WRs would be household names. Instead they have run first Kirby, and noodle arm Fromm. 

We'll see how the combine shakes out.  There are ways to measure arm strength in terms of velocity, rotation, and even simulated practice.  If we draft him, then he must have passed the tests.  There is a reasonable chance he passes the tests.  I'm not advocating any QB, or dispensing any QB.

 

Having said that, a noodle arm is better than a gunslinger who gets intercepted by pretending to be Mahomes, although both weaknesses should be considered materially significant enough to place the term HARD PASS on both QBs equally at any draft slot. 

 

Cager is a good college WR, but he's projected to go in the 5th round...thought of as too slow for the NFL.  The other WRs will be playing mainly after Fromm is gone.  No WR in Fromm's 1st three years at UGA has yet to have much NFL game play.  That's on UGA and Smart, not Fromm, and is a cohort that negatively impacts Fromm's performance.  OTOH, Tua and Burrow have both accumulated stats while playing with NFL receivers...even multiple NFL quality receivers at the same time.

 

UGAs oline is stout.  A smart QB would stay in that pocket for as long as possible, and not try to look like Mahomes at the first opportunity.  JMO.

 

Not advocating for Fromm, but certainly not dis-advocating for him either.  The latter started months ago before he was even looked at much, IMO.  If he's drafted, then I'd readily say that Ballard made the right choice.  If not, then Fromm has too many questions.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

 

I said that a little tongue in cheek, with the punch line being, basically, all we get is short and safe with JB and Fromm's game is pretty much the same short and safe.  The how that happens might look a little different, but neither guy really challenges defenses downfield and will out of their way to put the ball away from harm.  That kind of stuff is great, when you have a comfortable lead, not when you're down and need points quick. 

 

It's for that reason I am apprehensive on Fromm.  I'm not saying we need a guy to light up the scoreboard, but he's got to be able ot recognize and hit targets all over the field or we'll just end up moving on from him because teams don't have to defend space that isn't a threat.  That's what started happening to Jacoby, and if Fromm sticks to what he knows, his utility basically tops out the same as Jacoby's - a quality backup.

I don't disagree with your theory, but there is not enough information to say that Fromm cannot recognize and hit targets all over the field, (just the opposite in fact) or that he lacks long ball prowess to the degree that it would make defenses not even defend the whole field. 

 

I think that's the part of looking at Fromm that is exaggerated, IMO. 

 

He's more than capable of executing a play action pass to the deep middle.  He may not be the guy to rely upon throwing a steady diet of deep outs, deep hooks, and deep comebacks to the outside, but I haven't noticed as much of those patterns under Reich as I did with Chud and Tom Moore/PM.

[OffensivelyPC]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

Here's their to 4 pass catchers...

George Pickens - 5 star, true frosh. #4 WR in the country

Demetrius Robertson - 5 star, junior, #1 WR in the country

Dominick Blaylock - 4/5 star, true frosh, #5 WR in the country

Lawrence Cager - only a 4 star, senior, top 25 WR

 

That's 3 WRs that were rated top 5 in the nation.... lol... And then add in Swift as a pass catcher.

 

UGA WRs have suffered (NFL wise) due to their O scheme and QBs, but they have several good and great receivers in the NFL. AJ Green (CIN). Mecole Hardman (KC), Chris Conley (Jax), Isaiah McKenzie, Riley Ridley, Javon Wims... Most of those WRs are on teams with bad QBs, so likely why you haven't heard of them. Also, back to UGA, if they had a QB or scheme good for WRs, you'd see guys like Pickens, Robertson, Blaylock, and Cager's names all over ESPN.

 

If UGA had Fields, they would have likely won the NC... And their WRs would be household names. Instead they have run first Kirby, and noodle arm Fromm. 

Dude, Demetrius Robertson... I traded for him in a league with a devy, and I S*** you not, dude transferred like a week later from Cali.  thankfully I didn't give up much.

 

I was concerned because UG's scheme is run and think about the pass.  Such a good prospect and UG was about the worst place he could've transferred to if his aspirations were getting drafted high.  I hear that they brought in a new OC Coordinator, something Monken, who's more predicated on the pass.  So hopefully he can salvage that dominant 4 WR lineup.  Cuz it's going to waste the way they've been doing business.

 

Following Robertson has caused me to notice Brian Herrien who I think could be a gem in this draft.  Looks like a good back (maybe a tad sluggish, but then has moments where he shows an explosive side.  Not sure which is the real Herrien,, but people talking like he's a UDFA.  If he tests well, I think I want him on the Colts.  He didn't get a ton of playing time because been there 3-4 years he's had to contend with Chubb, Michel, Swift, Holyfield, Zamir, Cook.  Like getting time at RB on taht roster?  Dude was surrounded by 4/5 star (most of them top 10 in their respective classes), and yet he still managed to see sizable playing time.  Never a first choice, but he shined often enough that I think he could very easily take a short yardage role (with upside as a pass catcher, not sure about blocking though) with the Colts.