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Ian Rapoport: Colts are 'most logical' fit for Philip Rivers (merge)

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13 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

 

San Diego are not jettisoning him for no reason, the front office there know what they're doing.

If their front office is still in San Diego, they don't know what they're doing.

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4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Like @2006Coltsbestever said, his OL was plain awful. PFF ranked them 29th in the league. Their tackle duo allowed the 2nd most pressures in the league.... That won't bode well for statues or scramblers. Bad is bad. The fact he put up 4600 under those conditions is pretty remarkable.

A ton of Rivers throws are late read deep throws. He was #3 in "pass attempt distance, #5 in completed air yards, and #6 in deep ball attempts. He did throw to RBs a lot, but he also had 2 WRs over 1000 yards, and they got a ton of deep action.

 

JB had plenty of opportunity throwing it short. He was bottom ten in the 3 stats i listed above. He was also terrible throwing it in the seam +5 where RBs, TEs, and slots like to sit down for the dump.

 

Rivers has never been a runner. He's got a 44yards/year average in his years starting.

Keep in mind, he's only one season away from a 12-4 record and his highest QBR in six years.

It comes down to their OL has been progressively getting worse since 2014, and this last year it bottomed out. Even with that, 9 of their 11 losses were by a touchdown or less.

He's correct. I saw a stat where a good portion of his INTs were 4Q when the team was down. Every QB forced to play hero ball has INT issues. His TD/INT was much better last year. Last year's INT numbers is something that can easily be fixed an improved OL, scheme, etc..

 

Landing in Indy would be night and day for him. Even with all the INTs in 2019, he was still 66%, and that's with having the #7 most drops. Everyone whined about JB having to deal with drops, and he was only 14th.

LOL, are you serious. Even in one of Rivers' worst season, he still have a ton more yards, better completions % (10th vs 26th), YPG (6th vs 29th), AVG (11th vs 30th).

 

I don't really want Rivers to be honest, but saying he wouldn't be a clear upgrade over JB is twilight zone stuff. If Rivers came to Indy he would have a top 5 OL (vs LAC's bottom 5 OL) and a top 10 running game (vs LAC's bottom 5 running game), etc.. 

 

The only way I'd want Rivers is if we're bringing him in for a 2 year bridge to mentor a guy like Love, Herbert, Eason, or Jordan. I'd be perfectly good with that.

I'm not going to act like his offensive line wasn't bad, but quarterbacks can mask that to an extent by being able to maneuver in the pocket and actually sensing pressure.

 

Our offensive line isn't perfect, and the fact that every time there is pressure I would have to hope Rivers doesn't throw it into triple coverage doesn't sit well with me. 

 

Don't know where you are seeing "late read deep throws". He throws the ball down the field when there is one-on-one coverage that he sees before the play, which is the greatest advantage he has over Jacoby (football IQ). However, he throws just as many prayers to covered receivers. Had 20 picks and could have had at least 8-10 more.

 

I don't care about how many yards he threw or his completion percentage. When you're throwing the ball 600 times, and have a running back catching 90 passes, you're going to have stats. There was a reason he almost got benched last year. 

 

Plus we relied on the running game heavily last year, while the Chargers relied on the pass. Obviously yards per game are going to be in River's favor. 

 

Bottom line is I don't think he's worth bringing in because I don't think Jacoby is the QB we saw during the second half of the season. I think he'll play decent while we develop our next franchise guy. If he doesn't, then I'll fess up.  

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

The quarterback coach.

I actually predicted that the FO would up their coaching game surrounding the QB. Looks like that is happening. I still think they will bring in a vet if they pick a guy like Love or Gordon. If they draft a guy in the first or second, I think they will need to part ways with JB. Clean break....  I just don't think it's a smart locker room move to keep him if they do draft a guy.

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10 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I'm not going to act like his offensive line wasn't bad, but quarterbacks can mask that to an extent by being able to maneuver in the pocket and actually sensing pressure.

His time to throw was top 5, meaning he got the ball out quickly to mask his OL's deficiency. 

JB's time to throw was ranked 31st.... Rivers would have a ton more time behind Indy's OL than he did in LA.

10 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Our offensive line isn't perfect, and the fact that every time there is pressure I would have to hope Rivers doesn't throw it into triple coverage doesn't sit well with me. 

Playing from behind requires more risk, which is the situation he was in most of the year. 

I'm not saying he didn't have a bad INT year in 2019, but he also had a good INT year in 17 and 18.... So we know he's capable of being better. In Reich's O, and with our OL and running game, he would not be tossing bombs all the time.

10 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Don't know where you are seeing "late read deep throws". He throws the ball down the field when there is one-on-one coverage that he sees before the play, which is the greatest advantage he has over Jacoby (football IQ). However, he throws just as many prayers to covered receivers. Had 20 picks and could have had at least 8-10 more.

I got all the stats from advanced stats sites. PFR and PP are the best free sites.

 

You seemed to be judging everything on last year, and not taking into context his OL was one of the worst in the league, he only had two WRs, his RB held out, etc. etc... There's a lot of context you're ignoring.

10 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I don't care about how many yards he threw or his completion percentage. When you're throwing the ball 600 times, and have a running back catching 90 passes, you're going to have stats. There was a reason he almost got benched last year. 

Completion average is an average. Doesn't matter if it's 600 passes or 6.... it's an average. And it's very important. And to be 66% and also be in the top 10 in air yards means his completion % isn't just a product of throwing to RBs... it's simple math.

10 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Plus we relied on the running game heavily last year, while the Chargers relied on the pass. Obviously yards per game are going to be in River's favor. 

LAC couldn't run the ball well because the OL sucked. And that translated into Ds selling out vs the pass, which is another reason Rivers had INT issues. It's similar to teams selling out against our run this year, and Mack's AVG going down.

10 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Bottom line is I don't think he's worth bringing in because I don't think Jacoby is the QB we saw during the second half of the season. I think he'll play decent while we develop our next franchise guy. If he doesn't, then I'll fess up.  

JB wasn't good the first half either. 4 of his first 7 games were sub 50 QBR, and 3 of those games were in the 30s. And a QBR in the 30s is plain terrible.

 

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Forget about stats, rivers doesn’t win he has never won a super bowl he’s never even been to a super bowl. he’s had some of the best teams around him and he still can’t get it done. 

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1 minute ago, HectorRoberts said:

Forget about stats, rivers doesn’t win he has never won a super bowl he’s never even been to a super bowl. he’s had some of the best teams around him and he still can’t get it done. 

I doubt many want him long term, or see him as a savior. Like me, they see him as a potential short term bridge/mentor to a young QB drafted this spring.

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12 hours ago, a06cc said:

I don’t like Rivers. We had beef with the Chargers in Manning last few season here. With that being said I’m hoping we just let Jacoby play out his contract here. You guys don’t see the ins and out in the locker room. The team supports him. With everything we’ve been through for the past fews seasons I’d hope all of you would do that same. He wasn’t healthy and couldn’t step into his throws. He played through an injury for all of you. 

players get cut or lose their jobs all the time for not being good enough

 

i have no attachment to Jacoby, he is someone that needs replaced if we are going to compete for super bowls imo.  doesnt make sense to wait another year just because they over paid him last year imo

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13 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

According to some in here, JB was a below average QB during our 5-2 stretch and was never accurate lmao .

he had a good game or two but i think they mostly won with rushing and the defense was playing better then too

 

i think most QBs in the league would have won the games he did, but the team wasnt good when we had to pass

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

So you would want to have Mariota mentor/bridge a young rook? huh?

 

I'd love to see Kelly get a fair shot. I just don't see the FO not making a move. 

No. I would rather have our coaches coach up a young rook or throw them into fire right away.  Mariota is my choice if they go with a non rook QB

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8 minutes ago, Indeee said:

No. I would rather have our coaches coach up a young rook or throw them into fire right away.  Mariota is my choice if they go with a non rook QB

Throwing them into the fire has ruined many QBs... Some rooks need time. 

 

What about Mariota do you like? Mariota is a system QB, and really isn't a good fit for Reich's O IMO. He also struggles in many of the same areas that JB does (progressions, reads, pre-snap), and has happy feet. 

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Rivers any day even at his age over J.B. who is holding the team back with his lousy QB playing.

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14 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

These old statues at QB are going out. They can’t win in the nfl anymore. With improved weapons and staying healthy I think Jacoby can win enough for the playoffs. Then the new QB starts the following year. At least Jacoby is mobile.

Not ture at all... If prime Peyton Manning was on this Colts team, we would beat the Chiefs 90% of the time.   They are "going out" as in getting older and no one has really replaced them yet...but they definitely could win at a very high rate, if they were still here in their primes!

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1 minute ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Not ture at all

i think there is some truth to what they said but its not 100% or anything

 

there are still some immobile QBs playing but they are getting old and most of the successful younger QBs are decently mobile 

 

even someone like ryan tannehill isnt known for getting a lot of rushing yards but hes actually pretty good at it when he sees a hole like Luck was 

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3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i think there is some truth to what they said but its not 100% or anything

 

there are still some immobile QBs playing but they are getting old and most of the successful younger QBs are decently mobile 

 

even someone like ryan tannehill isnt known for getting a lot of rushing yards but hes actually pretty good at it when he sees a hole like Luck was 

Understand that... my point was just that the QBs like Manning etc could definitely still be elite, in today's NFL, in their primes.

 

They have enough physical ability to go with the mental advantages... just like Larry Bird was still elite, competing with Dr J, Magic, Jordan etc (different sport, i know)

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58 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

Forget about stats, rivers doesn’t win he has never won a super bowl he’s never even been to a super bowl. he’s had some of the best teams around him and he still can’t get it done. 

That is mostly because he had to face Peyton and Brady in their primes, every year, when he had those great teams

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2 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Understand that... my point was just that the QBs like Manning etc could definitely still be elite, in today's NFL, in their primes.

i would agree with that too

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If JB wants to take things to the next level he needs to be practicing with his WRs and getting as much timing down as possible. I just dont know that hes going to do that, and it will take that level of dedication for the next couple years. I dont see him doing that, and I dont want a declining rivers either. 

 

Think of your timing with a WR like a muscle. The more you work that out the better it's going to be. 

 

Ballard is a patient man. He continues to demonstrate patience throughout his tenure. I think Ballard is going to continue his method even this year. I see him signing above average talent through FA and keep building through the draft. If the Colts sign a major FA, it will be because that player really wanted to be here, because it has to "make sense for the team, and make sense for the player". 

 

I would love to see splashes in FA, but I also want to have the money for guys like Nelson, Kelly,  Smith, and hopefully Castanzo. When you make big splashes you have to let someone walk. 

 

I'm afraid the most excitement were going to get will be through the draft, with a lot of uptrending players as usual through FA. 

 

In Ballards mind, he set himself back a couple years when Luck retired. 

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As of right now, Brissett is going into his first season as the #1 QB on the roster.  2017 he replaced injured Luck, last year he replaced retired Luck.

 

His mindset should be different this off-season, he should be getting extra work with his WRs when the time comes...AND, it's a contract year for him, so if he wants a starting QB job someplace else in 2021, then he'll have a different mindset, too.

 

Plus, Rivers would want around 20 - 25 million this season.  Do we want to spend that kind of money for a stopgap/bridge QB?

 

Maybe we stick with JB, draft a QB and spend money in FA to shore up our other weak positions?

 

Just a thought...

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I'm not against signing Rivers for one year. We have the offensive line to protect him and the roster is built to win-now.

 

Plus, I'm not crazy about any of the QB prospects outside of Joe Burrow in terms of 'franchise QB' potential. 

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3 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

As of right now, Brissett is going into his first season as the #1 QB on the roster.  2017 he replaced injured Luck, last year he replaced retired Luck.

 

His mindset should be different this off-season, he should be getting extra work with his WRs when the time comes...AND, it's a contract year for him, so if he wants a starting QB job someplace else in 2021, then he'll have a different mindset, too.

 

Plus, Rivers would want around 20 - 25 million this season.  Do we want to spend that kind of money for a stopgap/bridge QB?

 

Maybe we stick with JB, draft a QB and spend money in FA to shore up our other weak positions?

 

Just a thought...

 

Money is not an issue for us. 86M in space...

 

It comes down to what you want at QB.

 

To me personally, JB is a stopgap that we're paying 20+M... JB has had the same deficiencies since college. I don't think a new mindset/off season is magically going to fix him.

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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Money is not an issue for us. 86M in space...

 

It comes down to what you want at QB.

 

To me personally, JB is a stopgap that we're paying 20+M... JB has had the same deficiencies since college. I don't think a new mindset/off season is magically going to fix him.

I don’t think we need to fix him so he is our franchise guy. He just needs to improve enough next season to get us to the playoffs and buy us a year so a rookie can start in 2021.   I do think he will improve enough if players stay relatively healthy and a couple upgrades. We weren’t that far off this year. I do think his mindset would be different. Especially if we draft a guy in the first round. He will need to show he can get a starting job somewhere because he knows it won’t be here. 

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If we sign any QB, I vote we sign Taysom Hill

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t think we need to fix him so he is our franchise guy. He just needs to improve enough next season to get us to the playoffs and buy us a year so a rookie can start in 2021.   I do think he will improve enough if players stay relatively healthy and a couple upgrades. We weren’t that far off this year. I do think his mindset would be different. Especially if we draft a guy in the first round. He will need to show he can get a starting job somewhere because he knows it won’t be here. 

Several things....

1. JB is not going to want to be a bridge QB

2. Drafting a QB and keeping JB around would be bad for the locker room

3. I'd prefer a better mentor for a rook

4. I'd prefer a better bridge

5. Just "getting to the playoffs" doesn't matter to me when there's little hope advancing

6. A QB like JB stunts the development of pass catchers.

 

In short, if I'm drafting a QB with moving on in mind, I might as well move on now instead of next year... Clean cut breakups are always better than the slow inevitable burn out. Better to bring in an older QB who is also better, but more importantly is OK with being a bridge for a couple years.

 

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33 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

As of right now, Brissett is going into his first season as the #1 QB on the roster.  2017 he replaced injured Luck, last year he replaced retired Luck.

 

His mindset should be different this off-season, he should be getting extra work with his WRs when the time comes...AND, it's a contract year for him, so if he wants a starting QB job someplace else in 2021, then he'll have a different mindset, too.

 

Plus, Rivers would want around 20 - 25 million this season.  Do we want to spend that kind of money for a stopgap/bridge QB?

 

Maybe we stick with JB, draft a QB and spend money in FA to shore up our other weak positions?

 

Just a thought...

I don't think FAs are going to want to come here with JB as our QB.  Rivers is a different story.  We can win now with Rivers and develop a QB behind him.  Most likely be a contender for a SB right away.  Not to mention signing Rivers would be pretty exciting for the fans and the city.   JB is the same old same old.  Boring. 

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Sign Rivers and draft at QB. Win now while also allowing for the possibility to win in the near future as well.

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1 hour ago, Barry Sears said:

As of right now, Brissett is going into his first season as the #1 QB on the roster.  2017 he replaced injured Luck, last year he replaced retired Luck.

 

His mindset should be different this off-season, he should be getting extra work with his WRs when the time comes...AND, it's a contract year for him, so if he wants a starting QB job someplace else in 2021, then he'll have a different mindset, too.

 

Plus, Rivers would want around 20 - 25 million this season.  Do we want to spend that kind of money for a stopgap/bridge QB?

 

Maybe we stick with JB, draft a QB and spend money in FA to shore up our other weak positions?

 

Just a thought...

 

Not that we owe Jacoby anything (other than some of the obvious contract money), but if we give rookie QBs 3 years to typically show us what they got, we can at least upgrade the talent around Jacoby and give him his first true year where he will know he is the #1 QB in the off season.

 

BUT if we feel the talent assembled around Jacoby will continue to underachieve based on what we have seen out of Jacoby so far, we do have the cap room to add talent AND get a vet starter, IMO, should we decide to do so. They just cannot have two minds about it, Frank Reich and Chris Ballard. Either rally around Jacoby, or sign a vet and retain Jacoby as a backup, which will be expensive but with current QB salaries, he will be on par even for a backup.

 

But, like @EastStreet said, signing a vet starter and keeping Jacoby may not sit well with the locker room.

 

 

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12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I disagree, his whole WR core was depleted with injury and our defense stunk to high heaven the last month of the season. Had TY been 100% at Houston we probably win that game and the division because that was a 2 game swing. TY was maybe at 50% that game, was slow and dropping passes. We only lost by 3 points.

 

Don't even let me get started on our kicking game which cost us at least 2 games.

I see our defense looking bad the last bit of the season as a direct result of the consistent 3 and outs our offense had. You can't consistently give your defense poor field position, with essentially no rest, and expect them to play well. JB not seeing wide open WR's & completely missing the ones he throws to is a much bigger concern for me.

 

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

Tom Telesco is a brilliant mind, he worked in Indy which means you know firsthand how smart he is. Why would you take what he's discarded? 

 

Think about it for a moment.

 

FYI, the Chargers arguably have a better roster than Indy.

The Chargers moving on from Rivers isn't necessarily a condemnation of Rivers' ability at this point in time. They could be moving on for a myriad of reasons: cap space, wanting to get younger at the position, just want a new direction, want to spark the fan base to have actual home games, etc. Sometimes a fresh start at QB is needed and it seemed years ago that Rivers and the Chargers' FO weren't on the same page, so this really isn't a surprise.

 

Telesco is a well regarded GM, but I wouldn't consider him a "brilliant mind". He's had some hits and even more misses, having brought in very little high level talent (aside from Joey Bosa [no brainer], Keanan Allen [often injured], and Melvin Ingram).

 

A list of his drafts for reference: https://wholeninesports.com/2019/04/01/tom-telesco-chargers-draft-history/

 

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Understandable however he's 32 and can still play. So politics aside, seems like a name to consider instead of guys like Rivers.

I have no problem with Kaep's political stances, but he's been out of the league for years and wasn't that great when he was playing. I don't see him being a clear upgrade over JB other than in athletic ability.

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3 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

The quarterback coach.

And the head coach.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

I could stand it, but I really think they're either going to draft a guy or hang their hat on Chad Kelly.  Not sure which

Have a feeling CK will not be here come September 

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43 minutes ago, Restored said:

Sign Rivers and draft at QB. Win now while also allowing for the possibility to win in the near future as well.

What did rivers win last year. Everyone is so sure he will give us more wins. I dm not. 

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9 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Have a feeling CK will not be here come September 

 

Might be the best thing for both sides, IMO. No more questions to answer about him. Ballard is not going to hitch his wagon to CK, so why prolong the inevitable, IMO?

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

What did rivers win last year. Everyone is so sure he will give us more wins. I dm not. 

He is more than year 

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16 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

These old statues at QB are going out. They can’t win in the nfl anymore. With improved weapons and staying healthy I think Jacoby can win enough for the playoffs. Then the new QB starts the following year. At least Jacoby is mobile.

Jacoby is SORT OF mobile!! Just saying

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4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I think more teams would rather have Chad Kelly than Kaepernick.

He had one good year and regressed in each of the next 3 year. 

12-4 then 8-8 then 2-6 then 1-10

 

Not sure i'd pin that on Kaepernick. He's been out of the league so long that I'm possibly remembering the wrong Kaep. At any rate, I don't see any free agent QBs on the market now who'd be that much better than Brissett.

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Ballard dumped some pretty serious coin already into JB and Hoyer. Both of which should hit the bricks imo. Wouldnt be too excited about Rivers coming in either. Not a PM and Denver situation. We are in big trouble right now at QB. Rookie savior? Rivers savior? Yikes.

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It’s sad that TY is going to have to suffer another rebuilding year with no chance for a Super Bowl.

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I wouldn't take Rivers if HE, himself, PAID the Colts 20 mil a year to sign him.

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1 minute ago, csmopar said:

I wouldn't take Rivers if HE, himself, PAID the Colts 20 mil a year to sign him.

I don't understand.  Can you please tell us how you really feel?   LOL

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48 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

He is more than year 

IF he was 28 you would have a point. He isn’t he is 38. I doubt he is going to all of a sudden have a better season then last year.

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12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

IF he was 28 you would have a point. He isn’t he is 38. I doubt he is going to all of a sudden have a better season then last year.

Football is a team sport and unless you are a PM type a qb can only not do as well as the other 52 players on the roster

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