Something going unsaid regarding 2019 Colts team

[Indeee]

 I had to bring up a point that I believe is going unnoticed or at least isn't being discussed enough and that is "Excitement".

 

This past year from a pure fan standpoint, I felt myself checking out on our Colts. Even when we were winning something didn't seem right. As the season went on, I knew what it was. I was bored with this team. Nothing about the 2019 team had me excited as a fan.

 

Looking back on all the years prior, there was an excitement in our games that kept me on edge of my seat at all times. Even when we "sucked for Luck" there was an excitement each week, albeit excited for another loss closer to getting us Luck...Ha!! 2018 by recent  example, the team had a different energy and having Luck meant we were never really out of a game. Leonard sparked the defense as well. Even with the playoff loss to KC, I kept believing we had a shot, until into the fourth. With this team of 2019 though, FOR ME, it was like watching paint dry and I was bored to tears, except in the most impressive win I think we had against KC. Honestly I think that was the only game that did feel invigorating to me and it wasn't because we were winning. The score was close and it was kind of nail biting and a good nervousness. That game's excitement though had a lot to do with our "D" containing the Chiefs "O".

 

A lot of the lack of excitement for me, had to do with the way this Colts offense was being utilized in the run first mantra. Something we Colts fans were not used to and when we did have opportunity to throw the ball, there was never any sense of excitement. Everyone knows our passing game was mundane, that's no secret.

 

That is why I wanted to see Kelly in the game. During the pre-season, when he was in the game there was an excitement when the Colts offensively had the ball. There was an excitement about this kid that I felt could carry over to the rest of the team. An "oomf" that the entire team needed. I don't know why that was, it was just an inner feeling that sparked my interest. It didn't matter if those moments were against 3rd or 4th stringers. I was interested, something that very rarely happens FOR ME in the pre-season and as the regular season sputtered along, I longed for that spark.

 

I can't speak for the rest of you, but that's why I wanted Kelly in the game. It had nothing to do with whether I thought he could come in and be a winner of games right away or not. To me, being a leader sometimes is about getting the other players around you to buy into that "oomf" and become excited and energized. It was like that when he was in the game, it was exciting, and had me looking forward to play after play. With JB under center our offense becomes a snooze fest, almost like going through the motions. That's not fun for a fan, win or lose, especially when we Colts fans have been accustomed to having it all over the previous years starting with Manning.

 

Let's hope in 2020, win or lose, we can recapture the excitement we have all become consistently accustomed to. 

 

Go Colts!!

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have been a Colts fan since 1984. So speaking for myself the 1984-1986 seasons were much worse than last season. Watching Mike Pagel QB was BAD! So was 1991 when we went 1-15 with Jeff George. The 2017 season was worse than last season as well not knowing the status of Luck and that team had very little talent. JB stepped into a mess that season. The 2011 season didn't bother me because Peyton was out and I knew Luck was coming.

 

I do not mind the run 1st mentality with a game manager type QB. I love the fact we can beat teams up and wear them down with our O.Line. Tennessee played that style and made it to the AFC Title Game. Tannehill is just a better game manager than JB and did it better than JB. We need a better defense though if we continue to go that route.

[boo2202]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have been a Colts fan since 1984. So speaking for myself the 1984-1986 seasons were much worse than last season. Watching Mike Pagel QB was BAD! So was 1991 when we went 1-15 with Jeff George. The 2017 season was worse than last season as well not knowing the status of Luck and that team had very little talent. JB stepped into a mess that season. The 2011 season didn't bother me because Peyton was out and I knew Luck was coming.

 

I do not mind the run 1st mentality with a game manager type QB. I love the fact we can beat teams up and wear them down with our O.Line. Tennessee played that style and made it to the AFC Title Game. Tannehill is just a better game manager than JB and did it better than JB. We need a better defense though if we continue to go that route.

Correct. If we’re going to base the offense as a run first and a dink and dunk passing attack, we must have a dominant defense. A defense that gets a lot of sacks and keeps the other offense off the field. I don’t care about how entertaining our offense is, we just want wins. 

[Indeee]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have been a Colts fan since 1984. So speaking for myself the 1984-1986 seasons were much worse than last season. Watching Mike Pagel QB was BAD! So was 1991 when we went 1-15 with Jeff George. The 2017 season was worse than last season as well not knowing the status of Luck and that team had very little talent. JB stepped into a mess that season. The 2011 season didn't bother me because Peyton was out and I knew Luck was coming.

 

I do not mind the run 1st mentality with a game manager type QB. I love the fact we can beat teams up and wear them down with our O.Line. Tennessee played that style and made it to the AFC Title Game. Tannehill is just a better game manager than JB and did it better than JB. We need a better defense though if we continue to go that route.

Well, of course. Brother, I have been a Colts fan from birth and my family had season tickets to memorial stadium in Balt. for years. I agree, there have been a lot of trying times in Colts history. I was speaking though starting with Manning until the present. As far as run first team in comparison to Tenn. or even Balt. as examples, we as Colts fans just are not used to that since Manning arrived is all I'm saying. Not whether it's right or wrong, just hard to adjust to.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Indeee said:

Well, of course. Brother, I have been a Colts fan from birth and my family had season tickets to memorial stadium in Balt. for years. I agree, there have been a lot of trying times in Colts history. I was speaking though starting with Manning until the present. As far as run first team in comparison to Tenn. or even Balt. as examples, we as Colts fans just are not used to that since Manning arrived is all I'm saying. Not whether it's right or wrong, just hard to adjust to.

Definitely a different style, the younger fans have never seen.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Indeee said:

Well, of course. Brother, I have been a Colts fan from birth and my family had season tickets to memorial stadium in Balt. for years. I agree, there have been a lot of trying times in Colts history. I was speaking though starting with Manning until the present. As far as run first team in comparison to Tenn. or even Balt. as examples, we as Colts fans just are not used to that since Manning arrived is all I'm saying. Not whether it's right or wrong, just hard to adjust to.

In reality excitement started when Jim Harbaugh started as our QB. We had Marshall Faulk too. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

In reality excitement started when Jim Harbaugh started as our QB. We had Marshall Faulk too. 

1987 was awesome to me when we got Eric Dickerson. 84-86 was bad. 1987 was a fun year. Winning the AFC East with Marino in that division + the Pats were good too that year was sweet.

[ztboiler]

Methinks the OP is describing the difference between having and not having a franchise QB

[LockeDown]

I don’t mind a run first offense if we are truly dominant. Like the Titans we’re doing through the playoffs. But I prefer to use it to open up our passing game and be balanced.

[Indeee]

4 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Methinks the OP is describing the difference between having and not having a franchise QB

Not necessarily, although having the franchise QB helps. I do believe that JB's lack of "anything spectacular" certainly helped aid in my boredom. Take Jamis Winston. Some would say he isn't a franchise QB, however he is definitely NOT boring. Remember, I said it didn't matter about wins vs. losses but if you are a Bucs fan, you are definitely entertained and excited on every snap. Yes, Jamis by example can be frustrating, however you always knew you had a shot at exciting plays. We all hated when Luck threw all those pics in his earlier career, but he got a pass because you knew he could come back out and make up for it quickly with his arm and legs. It was exciting or at least encouraging. We just didn't have that in any aspect with the 2019 team. Hope that makes sense

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Not necessarily, although having the franchise QB helps. I do believe that JB's lack of "anything spectacular" certainly helped aid in my boredom. Take Jamis Winston. Some would say he isn't a franchise QB, however he is definitely NOT boring. Remember, I said it didn't matter about wins vs. losses but if you are a Bucs fan, you are definitely entertained and excited on every snap. Yes, Jamis by example can be frustrating, however you always knew you had a shot at exciting plays. We all hated when Luck threw all those pics in his earlier career, but he got a pass because you knew he could come back out and make up for it quickly with his arm and legs. It was exciting or at least encouraging. We just didn't have that in any aspect with the 2019 team. Hope that makes sense

If JB falls behind more than 10 points we are in trouble, he is all about ball control. Problem is for most people after watching Peyton and Luck we are just spoiled. I hate to say this but we will never have that again. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. We still could land a good QB and win being more of running team, I am fine with that.

[Indeee]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If JB falls behind more than 10 points we are in trouble, he is all about ball control. Problem is for most people after watching Peyton and Luck we are just spoiled. I hate to say this but we will never have that again. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. We still could land a good QB and win being more of running team, I am fine with that.

Maybe it was the fact JB just refused or didn't take any "real" chances. No matter the reason. That type of too conservative playstyle I find boring. Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that our running game came on, but as someone posted earlier a more balanced approach I think everyone would be happy with including the Colts. I believe they know that. I just know that I, like most fans gravitate towards players that are dynamic in their playstyle or show the ability to be dynamic when needed. I think Kelly showed us that in small sample size in the 2019 pre-season. That's why I'm pulling/slightly biased towards Chad as the only offensive player we have currently with that possible attribute. Parris maybe does too, just need him to get and stay healthy and I would say Mack could be, but until he gets more involved in the passing game, he is going to fall short. When you think about it, we really don't have a lot of dynamic offensive players.

[2006Coltsbestever]

You have these categories:

Hall of Fame type QB - that was Peyton.

 

Great - one could argue Luck belongs here.

 

Very Good - I would put Luck here which is still SB material with a solid team around him.

 

Good - Jim Harbaugh in 1995 and 1996 for us. It is very possible we can draft, pick up someone off of Free Agency, or trade for someone that is good. I still like Derek Carr. A good QB could get us to the SB with a great running game.

 

Above Average - solid game manager material. This was JB through the 1st 7 games of the season. This was Tannehill for the Titans the 2nd half of the season.

 

Average

 

Below Average

 

Bad

[Indeee]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You have these categories:

Hall of Fame type QB - that was Peyton.

 

Great - one could argue Luck belongs here.

 

Very Good - I would put Luck here which is still SB material with a solid team around him.

 

Good - Jim Harbaugh in 1995 and 1996 for us. It is very possible we can draft, pick up someone off of Free Agency, or trade for someone that is good. I still like Derek Carr.

 

Above Average - solid game manager material. This was JB through the 1st 7 games of the season. This was Tannehill for the Titans the 2nd half of the season.

 

Average

 

Below Average

 

Bad

Bad: Art Schlichter… Ha!!

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Indeee said:

Bad: Art Schlichter… Ha!!

Yeah he was bad!  Pagel too. Trudeau sucked in 1986 too  

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You have these categories:

Hall of Fame type QB - that was Peyton.

 

Great - one could argue Luck belongs here.

 

Very Good - I would put Luck here which is still SB material with a solid team around him.

 

Good - Jim Harbaugh in 1995 and 1996 for us. It is very possible we can draft, pick up someone off of Free Agency, or trade for someone that is good. I still like Derek Carr. A good QB could get us to the SB with a great running game.

 

Above Average - solid game manager material. This was JB through the 1st 7 games of the season. This was Tannehill for the Titans the 2nd half of the season.

 

Average

 

Below Average

 

Bad

@esmort what is with the confused face, this post is dead on. Anytime someone says anything positive about JB it doesn't fly with a handful of people in here. This crap is really getting tiring. He was above average through 7 games = 5-2, 2 300 yard games, and 14/3 ratio TD's to INT's. That is above average, if not good. If you want to say he was below average or bad toward the end of the season then you will get no argument from me. I said 1st 7 games.  If you give me a confused face, explain yourself. Also Tannehill threw for 88 yards at Baltimore, he wasn't even above average in that 1 game. Henry won that game by himself.

[Jdubu]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If JB falls behind more than 10 points we are in trouble, he is all about ball control. Problem is for most people after watching Peyton and Luck we are just spoiled. I hate to say this but we will never have that again. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. We still could land a good QB and win being more of running team, I am fine with that.

Imho, I would be happy as a lark if we had a QB who was slightly above avg with a RB who is slightly above avg and a dominant defense. I think having a really great QB or really great RB only, that sets you up for being predictable but having two guys who can achieve but not flat out dominate you is the better way of the overall “team” winning approach. Having the defense though to get your offense more opportunities and holding point totals down is key. 

40 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@esmort what is with the confused face, this post is dead on. Anytime someone says anything positive about JB it doesn't fly with a handful of people in here. This crap is really getting tiring. He was above average through 7 games = 5-2, 2 300 yard games, and 14/3 ratio TD's to INT's. That is above average, if not good. If you want to say he was below average or bad toward the end of the season then you will get no argument from me. I said 1st 7 games.  If you give me a confused face, explain yourself. Also Tannehill threw for 88 yards at Baltimore, he wasn't even above average in that 1 game. Henry won that game by himself.

JB was pretty solid in that first half and I’d take that type of production. The problem is, did JB become predictable and the NFL coaches on defense figured his style and limitations out and stoned him? That’s what I think happened. I don’t think the injury defined his poor play after he came back 100%, it may have had some impact initially but not overall. Can’t run this team with JB again. 

[jskinnz]

Jake Query said it best during the Monday night debacle in New Orleans. The Colts were bad and boring. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

53 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

Imho, I would be happy as a lark if we had a QB who was slightly above avg with a RB who is slightly above avg and a dominant defense. I think having a really great QB or really great RB only, that sets you up for being predictable but having two guys who can achieve but not flat out dominate you is the better way of the overall “team” winning approach. Having the defense though to get your offense more opportunities and holding point totals down is key. 

JB was pretty solid in that first half and I’d take that type of production. The problem is, did JB become predictable and the NFL coaches on defense figured his style and limitations out and stoned him? That’s what I think happened. I don’t think the injury defined his poor play after he came back 100%, it may have had some impact initially but not overall. Can’t run this team with JB again. 

Oh, I think we need an upgrade at QB. JB isn't a franchise QB as I have said. Most people know that, that follow football. I just hope we choose the right QB to replace him. Having said that I do not think JB is bad either.

[2006Coltsbestever]

29 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

Jake Query said it best during the Monday night debacle in New Orleans. The Colts were bad and boring. 

Tennessee was boring too and look how far they went. 

[jskinnz]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Tennessee was boring too and look how far they went. 

look at the points they put up in the 2nd half of the season.  That was anything but boring. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, jskinnz said:

look at the points they put up in the 2nd half of the season.  That was anything but boring. 

Tannehill had a couple of big games but they mainly ran the ball. Their 2 wins in the playoffs all they did was run the ball. They really don't play much different than us. Their defense got great in the playoffs which really helped them.

[ztboiler]

5 hours ago, Indeee said:

Not necessarily, although having the franchise QB helps. I do believe that JB's lack of "anything spectacular" certainly helped aid in my boredom. Take Jamis Winston. Some would say he isn't a franchise QB, however he is definitely NOT boring. Remember, I said it didn't matter about wins vs. losses but if you are a Bucs fan, you are definitely entertained and excited on every snap. Yes, Jamis by example can be frustrating, however you always knew you had a shot at exciting plays. We all hated when Luck threw all those pics in his earlier career, but he got a pass because you knew he could come back out and make up for it quickly with his arm and legs. It was exciting or at least encouraging. We just didn't have that in any aspect with the 2019 team. Hope that makes sense

Hope is the key word...for players and fans.  When you have the right QB, you believe anything is possible and that kind of hope is required for the game to be interesting or for players to play through adversity 

[esmort]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@esmort what is with the confused face, this post is dead on. Anytime someone says anything positive about JB it doesn't fly with a handful of people in here. This crap is really getting tiring. He was above average through 7 games = 5-2, 2 300 yard games, and 14/3 ratio TD's to INT's. That is above average, if not good. If you want to say he was below average or bad toward the end of the season then you will get no argument from me. I said 1st 7 games.  If you give me a confused face, explain yourself. Also Tannehill threw for 88 yards at Baltimore, he wasn't even above average in that 1 game. Henry won that game by himself.

 

JB was never better than average, especially if you are only giving Luck "very good".  JB 2019 = Average->Below Average; even the 1st 7 games he was at best an average QB.

[EastStreet]

53 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

JB was never better than average, especially if you are only giving Luck "very good".  JB 2019 = Average->Below Average; even the 1st 7 games he was at best an average QB.

I agree 1000% with the above.

 

IMO, any QBR below 50 is below average. In JB's first 7 games, 4 of 7 were below 50. Three of them in the 30s.... and 30s is just plain bad..... JB had two good games. The first Houston game, and the ATL game. Both of those were early in the year (before film got out) and at home. And both ATL and Houston had awful pass Ds. All the other games were mediocre to bad.

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Tannehill had a couple of big games but they mainly ran the ball. Their 2 wins in the playoffs all they did was run the ball. They really don't play much different than us. Their defense got great in the playoffs which really helped them.

 

The difference with Tannehill, is he was top 10 in QBR, and top 5 in accuracy (completion%).

Aside from rook AJ Brown, he really didn't have any Tier 1 pass catchers. After his first game starting, he only had one sub 50 QBR game, and that was against Indy. Tannehill will do even better if they give him just one more quality WR or TE.

 

IMO, similar to Jimmy G and the 49ers, both teams need to pass more during the season so that they develop that aspect of their game. Both teams failed to get it done when they ran into an offense their D's could not manhandle. Had both been able to be more dynamic on O, they might be sitting with SB trophy. While running and D are great, and will get you to the playoffs, rarely translates into a SB without quality passing.

 

 

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, ztboiler said:

Hope is the key word...for players and fans.  When you have the right QB, you believe anything is possible and that kind of hope is required for the game to be interesting or for players to play through adversity 

 

I'm like @2006Coltsbestever and have been a fan since the trucks pulled in. While we may be spoiled, I think the bolded is incredibly important for a fan base like Indy. Reality is, we're a small town team that's had 2 good/great runs of QBs. Being a small town team is already tough (financially), but without hope, that small base is even more impacted (impacting ticket, merch, and city sales).

 

That's why I'm not down for the JB+improved D equation. It's just too limited, and it's simply not "fun" enough for a small base to be patient with. I think the majority of fans would prefer hope/risk with a guy like Love as opposed to potentially painful patience it would take to create an unexciting ground and pound team.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 hours ago, esmort said:

 

JB was never better than average, especially if you are only giving Luck "very good".  JB 2019 = Average->Below Average; even the 1st 7 games he was at best an average QB.

I still think through the 1st 7 games JB was playing above average football. Yards passing or even QBR doesn't tell the whole story. I look at things like TD to INT ratio as well and how well the team is playing as a whole. His TD to INT ratio was actually great in those 1st 7. It is tough to go 5-2 with below average QB play unless you have a dominant defense which we don't have. I do agree with you that he had some bad games toward the end of the season. He also isn't the long term answer, we need an upgrade at QB.

 

Regarding Luck, in my original post I said one could argue that he belongs in the great category but technically did he have a great career or a very good career in your opinion? He definitely will not make the Hall of Fame.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

I'm like @2006Coltsbestever and have been a fan since the trucks pulled in. While we may be spoiled, I think the bolded is incredibly important for a fan base like Indy. Reality is, we're a small town team that's had 2 good/great runs of QBs. Being a small town team is already tough (financially), but without hope, that small base is even more impacted (impacting ticket, merch, and city sales).

 

That's why I'm not down for the JB+improved D equation. It's just too limited, and it's simply not "fun" enough for a small base to be patient with. I think the majority of fans would prefer hope/risk with a guy like Love as opposed to potentially painful patience it would take to create an unexciting ground and pound team.

 

 

Actually good points. Our fanbase doesn't have much patience IMO and doesn't take having losing seasons well. We have won so much in the past that a losing or 2 doesn't bother me if the team looks like it is headed in the right direction. I trust Ballard as of now.

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Actually good points. Our fanbase doesn't have much patience IMO and doesn't take having losing seasons well. We have won so much in the past that a losing or 2 doesn't bother me if the team looks like it is headed in the right direction. I trust Ballard as of now.

It's not that our fanbase doesn't take losing well, it's that we don't take losing Andrew Luck for nothing well. I trust Ballard as well as long as he does something about our QB situation. He seems to have the draft figured out now after 3 years.

[2006Coltsbestever]

30 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It's not that our fanbase doesn't take losing well, it's that we don't take losing Andrew Luck for nothing well. I trust Ballard as well as long as he does something about our QB situation. He seems to have the draft figured out now after 3 years.

Losing Luck sucked. It took our chances away at a chance to win the SB. Luck is to blame for that though. He made the decision to walk away right when he had an O.Line that would protect him. Regarding JB, when JB became the full time starter on opening day what did everyone expect our record to be? I had us going 8-8, he went 7-7 in his starts that he finished the game. So to me he didn't underachieve. He just had an average record. Once Luck retired, I can't recall anyone in here saying we would have a winning record. The 5-2 start just got everyone's hopes up. With Luck we would've went 12-4 IMO, had JB started all 16 games, we probably end up 8-8 instead of 7-9.

[Yoshinator]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Losing Luck sucked. It took our chances away at a chance to win the SB. Luck is to blame for that though. He made the decision to walk away right when he had an O.Line that would protect him. Regarding JB, when JB became the full time starter on opening day what did everyone expect our record to be? I had us going 8-8, he went 7-7 in his starts that he finished the game. So to me he didn't underachieve. He just had an average record. Once Luck retired, I can't recall anyone in here saying we would have a winning record. The 5-2 start just got everyone's hopes up. With Luck we would've went 12-4 IMO, had JB started all 16 games, we probably end up 8-8 instead of 7-9.

It's Brissett's 2nd half decline that has everyone in a tizzy. If we went 8-8, and he was consistent all year, there'd be no panic. However, it's obvious he fell off the map and unknown whether he turns it around (if he starts next year), and Ballard has to make a gut decision in FA and the draft whether to replace him, and it will determine if we win or lose next year.

 

As for Luck, I agree. I have no sympathy for him. Ballard built an O-Line for him quickly and he bailed out. I just feel bad for Irsay, Ballard, Reich, Luck's teammates, and every fan that put effort into watching the Colts since 2012. Luck is history. Time to move on.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It's Brissett's 2nd half decline that has everyone in a tizzy. If we went 8-8, and he was consistent all year, there'd be no panic. However, it's obvious he fell off the map and unknown whether he turns it around (if he starts next year), and Ballard has to make a gut decision in FA and the draft whether to replace him, and it will determine if we win or lose next year.

 

As for Luck, I agree. I have no sympathy for him. Ballard built an O-Line for him quickly and he bailed out. I just feel bad for Irsay, Ballard, Reich, Luck's teammates, and every fan that put effort into watching the Colts since 2012. Luck is history. Time to move on.

I think we will move on from JB, JB doesn't suck but he isn't a franchise QB either.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Actually good points. Our fanbase doesn't have much patience IMO and doesn't take having losing seasons well. We have won so much in the past that a losing or 2 doesn't bother me if the team looks like it is headed in the right direction. I trust Ballard as of now.

Key words are "as of now" like you said. This is a big off season for the FO.