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Walterfootball assessment of Love


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25 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Just to be fair, walterfootball has some of the weirdest takes out there.

 

I’m not a Jordan Love stan but I generally take them with a grain of salt.

Yeah, but Walter and/or Charlie are usually in the top 5 as far as accuracy in mock drafts. For what its worth.

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41 minutes ago, Archer said:

They view him as a mid-round prospect.  Drew comparisons to Bortles and Christian Ponder.  What’s more, they claim that NFL personnel people they talked to think this...

http://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Multiple-Teams-Grade-Jordan-Love-in-Mid-Rounds-of-the-2020-NFL-Draft

 

I don't know what to think of walterfootball, because they have some of the worst evaluations out there and then they try to justify them by trying to attach NFL sourcing to those(even in this one they attach to NFL sources evaluations that they have in their scouting that are complete and utter rubbish(accuracy) or banal and uninformative(turnovers... duh). But at the same time they sometimes strike gold with some inside reporting. It's all very weird... a very mixed bag. Also, keep in mind we are entering draft/smokescreen season so... I'd personally take with a grain of salt what teams say during draft season. 

 

Most of the evaluators that I respect most have him ranked as a clear R1 QB. I guess we will see in due time. 

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If a part of this happens and Jordan Love is available at No.34, best case scenario for us if we are going to sit him for a year to develop anyways. :dunno:

 

Not really worried. New season, new draft, new talent, the curve will go upwards eventually. :) 

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Walter Football is an interesting source. Half of their takes that are seen as questionable are spot on, and half of the takes that are reliable are dead wrong.  I love how in depth they go with a lot of players, but its a dart throw to see if they are right or not. What people fail to realize is that Walter and Charlie DO have sources, which the average fan does not. So complaining about someone who has more knowledge on a subject is questionable, and therefore I will not complain and take it in as viable information for the time being.

 

However, I will say that I have a second round grade on Love, so higher than 4th round, but not quite 1st round. Nobody really knows until the draft though.

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17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 


Point well taken, but Mahomes had over a 3:1 TD to Int. ratio and 8.3 YPA over his career.  Love had 20:17, and was only HM All Mountain West this year.  There’s gotta be a better reason than roster turnover at Utah St. to explain those #s.  If he’s the #13 pick in the draft, he shoulda been a man among boys...

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13 minutes ago, Archer said:


Point well taken, but Mahomes had over a 3:1 TD to Int. ratio and 8.3 YPA over his career.  Love had 20:17, and was only HM All Mountain West this year.  There’s gotta be a better reason than roster turnover at Utah St. to explain those #s.  If he’s the #13 pick in the draft, he shoulda been a man among boys...

Love had 32:6 TD:INT ratio and 8.6 YPA last year. This season's numbers are easily explained if you look into the context of his season. And when he struggled and in what situations he struggled this year. I'm not saying he didn't have bad moments and I'm not saying he doesn't need improvement in certain aspects, because if he doesn't improve he WILL bust, but numbers without context are a poor guide to what a prospect is. 

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5 minutes ago, stitches said:

Love had 32:6 TD:INT ratio and 8.6 YPA last year. This season's numbers are easily explained if you look into the context of his season. And when he struggled and in what situations he struggled this year. I'm not saying he didn't have bad moments and I'm not saying he doesn't need improvement in certain aspects, but numbers without context are a poor guide to what a prospect is. 

 

So Mahomes CAREER TD to INT ratio was 3:1.... then he compares a career stat with a season stat. :applause:

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2 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

So Mahomes CAREER TD to INT ratio was 3:1.... then he compares a career stat with a season stat. :applause:

That's what Archer did. So I chose a different season. Love's career TD:INT ratio is 2:1 even after this bad season. Is this what you got from my post? 

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Love had 32:6 TD:INT ratio and 8.6 YPA last year. This season's numbers are easily explained if you look into the context of his season. And when he struggled and in what situations he struggled this year. I'm not saying he didn't have bad moments and I'm not saying he doesn't need improvement in certain aspects, but numbers without context are a poor guide to what a prospect is. 


you may be right.  FWIW, I realized Josh Allen was a similar prospect in this regard - same conference even.  Looked him up, and in 2017 he had 6.7 YPA, 16:6 TD to Int, and was an HM All Mountain West.  And he looked really good for the Bills this year.  But, for the record, I hated him as a Top-10 prospect too...

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1 minute ago, Archer said:


you may be right.  FWIW, I realized Josh Allen was a similar prospect in this regard - same conference even.  Looked him up, and in 2017 he had 6.7 YPA, 16:6 TD to Int, and was an HM All Mountain West.  And he looked really good for the Bills this year.  But, for the record, I hated him as a Top-10 prospect too...

I hated him as a top 10 pick too. I think Love is a much better prospect. Doesn't mean he will turn out better in the league because it takes more than talent(for example, all the reports are that Josh Allen is a great worker and competitor... Ballard and the scouts will have to figure out if they can expect similar development from Love). 

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11 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

So Mahomes CAREER TD to INT ratio was 3:1.... then he compares a career stat with a season stat. :applause:


I reported the stats in front of me, figuring I was being kind to Love, given that Mahomes’ career stats would include lesser earlier years.  Turns out I was right: his last year at TT was 41:10 - ya like that better?

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8 minutes ago, stitches said:

That's what Archer did. So I chose a different season. Love's career TD:INT ratio is 2:1 even after this bad season. Is this what you got from my post? 

 

Oh my post was directed towards archer. I saw you also use a different season but my main point was you cant really use one season to define how good a player is. He had a great 2018 season. 

 

By no means am I in love with Love, but theres a lot more to it that 1 season. Just like 2018 isnt an indication of him being elite, 2019 isnt an indication of him being below average. 

2 minutes ago, Archer said:


I reported the stats in front of me, figuring I was being kind to Love, given that Mahomes’ career stats would include lesser earlier years.  Turns out I was right: his last year at TT was 41:10 - ya like that better?

 

I do lol

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People know Walter Football and they are not perfect just like no NFL scout or GM is perfect in their evaluations but Walterfootball is proven correct more often than not.

 

Since so many people like to compare Love to Mahomes "because one mocker made that comment"  I will add this.  in 2017, Walterfootball had Mahomes as the safest QB to pick in the 2017 draft and listed Trubisky as the most like to be a bust.

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2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

People know Walter Football and they are not perfect just like no NFL scout or GM is perfect in their evaluations but Walterfootball is proven correct more often than not.

 

Since so many people like to compare Love to Mahomes "because one mocker made that comment"  I will add this.  in 2017, Walterfootball had Mahomes as the safest QB to pick in the 2017 draft and listed Trubisky as the most like to be a bust.

The Love-Mahomes comps come from NFL execs... reportedly. 

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I don’t know much about Texas tech except they ran a air raid offense with Mahomes so his numbers would look really good- I would also also assume TT gets more talent the Utah State. You can see the similarities in Love and Mahomes just by watching Love.

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11 minutes ago, stitches said:

The Love-Mahomes comps come from NFL execs... reportedly. 

I'd like to see that link because the only place I read it was from a draftnik.

 

WalterFootball says team sources compare him to Blake Bortles.... not a ringing endorsement.

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3 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'd like to see that link because the only place I read it was from a draftnik.

I was just checking it. It's not by exec, it's by NFL scouts. The first one I saw is from Sept 30, from Dane Brugler's article on the Athletic:

 

https://theathletic.com/1251341/2019/09/30/dane-bruglers-top-60-draft-board-seven-quarterbacks-crack-updated-list/

Quote

 

10. *Jordan Love, QB, Utah State (6-3, 224, 4.68)

“Mahomes-like” was mentioned when discussing Love with NFL scouts this summer for my quarterback preview. Although his decision-making requires maturing, Love is a loose passer with the arm talent and movements that help him create magic as a ball-handler

 

 

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3 minutes ago, stitches said:

I was just checking it. It's not by exec, it's by a NFL scouts. The first one I saw is from Sept 30, from Dane Brugler's article on the Athletic:

 

https://theathletic.com/1251341/2019/09/30/dane-bruglers-top-60-draft-board-seven-quarterbacks-crack-updated-list/

 

I'm guessing those scouts that think that will be out of a job in a couple of years. :)

 

In all seriousness thanks for posting.  I will try to find the link to the mocker that is taking credit for it.

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11 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t know much about Texas tech except they ran a air raid offense with Mahomes so his numbers would look really good- I would also also assume TT gets more talent the Utah State. You can see the similarities in Love and Mahomes just by watching Love.

Considering you thought Jacoby was playing like a franchise QB in the early part of the season (and actually said you would laugh if the Colts didn't stick with Jacoby and ended up in QB purgatory for years) you will forgive some of us if we don't trust what your eyes see.

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3 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm guessing those scouts that think that will be out of a job in a couple of years. :)

 

In all seriousness thanks for posting.  I will try to find the link to the mocker that is taking credit for it.

No one is saying he will be as good. Just watching tape you can see the simularities- The throwing angles and how effortless he throws the ball. 

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1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm guessing those scouts that think that will be out of a job in a couple of years. :)

Eh, why? Like... whenever I make comparisons prospect to pro and especially to MVP/future HOF type of players, I almost always mean it as a stylistic comparison, rather than as an expectation for similar success. You can say he's Mahomes-like and still not think he will be as good as Mahomes is and won't be the exact copy of Mahomes. If you look at Love and Mahomes' pre-draft scouting reports they are scarily similar both in the strengths and in the weaknesses parts.

 

Actually forget about that... even if you put on video, you will get the similarities pretty easily. It doesn't mean Love will develop the same way. It doesn't mean Love has the same drive and same mentality, doesn't mean he will work as hard, doesn't mean he will have the same coaching staff guiding him, doesn't mean he will have the same weapons, etc. 

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2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Considering you thought Jacoby was playing like a franchise QB in the early part of the season (and actually said you would laugh if the Colts didn't stick with Jacoby and ended up in QB purgatory for years) you will forgive some of us if we don't trust what your eyes see.

I never said that.

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20 minutes ago, stitches said:

Eh, why? Like... whenever I make comparisons prospect to pro and especially to MVP/future HOF type of players, I almost always mean it as a stylistic comparison, rather than as an expectation for similar success.

It was a joke, thus the smiley face.

20 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

You can say he's Mahomes-like and still not think he will be as good as Mahomes is and won't be the exact copy of Mahomes. If you look at Love and Mahomes' pre-draft scouting reports they are scarily similar both in the strengths and in the weaknesses parts.

 

Actually forget about that... even if you put on video, you will get the similarities pretty easily. It doesn't mean Love will develop the same way. It doesn't mean Love has the same drive and same mentality, doesn't mean he will work as hard, doesn't mean he will have the same coaching staff guiding him, doesn't mean he will have the same weapons, etc. 

Eye of the beholder I guess.  I have viewed a few games of Love and I don't see Mahomes like at all.  Jacob Eason is more Mahomes like than Love

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5 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

It was a joke, thus the smiley face.

 

:thmup:

Quote

Eye of the beholder I guess.  I have viewed a few games of Love and I don't see Mahomes like at all.  Jacob Eason is more Mahomes like than Love

 

I guess agree to disagree on that comparison. Jacob Eason is more Joe Flacco than Mahomes IMO. 

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43 minutes ago, stitches said:

Eh, why? Like... whenever I make comparisons prospect to pro and especially to MVP/future HOF type of players, I almost always mean it as a stylistic comparison, rather than as an expectation for similar success.


Maybe this cues a new conversation as to what type of QB we should be looking for.  One could argue that with a Top-3 OL and a declining WR corps, we should be patterning ourselves after Tenn.  Run the dang ball, and when the D starts committing eight men into the box, it should be that much easier to throw.  If that becomes our strategy, we should be looking for a QB that doesn’t take negative plays, rather than one who plays loose and free with the football (like Mahomes and, presumably, Love)...

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28 minutes ago, stitches said:

:thmup:

 

I guess agree to disagree on that comparison. Jacob Eason is more Joe Flacco than Mahomes IMO. 

I don't think Eason is much like Mahomes either, just more like Mahomes than Love is.

 

I don't get the Flacco comparison though, Eason is much more athletic and fluid than Flacco ever was.

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37 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

 

 

 

I always said I was going to give Jacoby the entire season.  This was before our slide in Dec.  Before that late half slide. Just because I was nervous about getting a new QB and moving on doesn’t mean I was sold on Jacoby. 

Eason is a pocket passer and does not extend plays like Love or Mahomes.

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4 minutes ago, Archer said:


Maybe this cues a new conversation as to what type of QB we should be looking for.  One could argue that with a Top-3 OL and a declining WR corps, we should be patterning ourselves after Tenn.  Run the dang ball, and when the D starts committing eight men into the box, it should be that much easier to throw.  If that becomes our strategy, we should be looking for a QB that doesn’t take negative plays, rather than one who plays loose and free with the football (like Mahomes and, presumably, Love)...

QB is the position that can give you the most value and the biggest advantage/disadvantage against any opponent and IMO you should aim at the stars with the QB position. The player with highest ceiling rather than being safe and going for game-managery high floor player. I don't want us to be a "run the ball team". Those are incredibly hard to sustain success. 

 

The reason I want a mobile QB who has the pocket presence and ability to make plays out of structure in addition to having ability to distribute the ball within structure(this is underrated part of Love's play BTW - when kept clean in the pocket and when his receivers had 1 step of separation or more he had 23 big-time throws(second only to Burrow in the entire country) and only 2 turnover worthy plays), is because in today's league defensive linemen have the advantage over offensive lines and I want our QB to be able to navigate the pocket when possible and deliver the ball, or escape the pocket and make plays on the move when the pocket collapses. The top QBs in the league nowadays, especially the new generation, are all QBs that can move and make plays out of structure. 

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10 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't think Eason is much like Mahomes either, just more like Mahomes than Love is.

 

I don't get the Flacco comparison though, Eason is much more athletic and fluid than Flacco ever was.

 

It's not a perfect comp and indeed Eason moves a bit better(not a lot better), but don't think of this Flacco after tons and tons of injuries, think of earlier Flacco. They both are prototypical QBs when it comes to size and height, big arms, pocket QBs, that don't make a ton of plays on the move, but can do it once in a while. Both have some very questionable pocket presence and feel.

 

I think earlier in the process when I first was watching him I said Eason is Flacco+ because indeed he seems a bit more fluid and able to roll out of the pocket, but I wouldn't call this a strength for him. 

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

It's not a perfect comp and indeed Eason moves a bit better(not a lot better), but don't think of this Flacco after tons and tons of injuries, think of earlier Flacco. They both are prototypical QBs when it comes to size and height, big arms, pocket QBs, that don't make a ton of plays on the move, but can do it once in a while. Both have some very questionable pocket presence and feel.

Athleticism/Size – At 6’6” and 227 pounds, Eason possesses the size desired in a traditional quarterback prospect in the NFL. He won’t ever be compared to Kyler Murray or Lamar Jackson, but he can extend plays and pick up yards with his legs.

 

While Eason is not a running threat, he can move around some and his size makes him tough to get down.

 

He's athletic enough. Wouldn't consider him a threat to packaged QB runs or RPOs but he's athletic enough to break contain and stretch the defense horizontally before finding an uncovered receiver. Dangerous on the move because of how strong his arm is to zip throws deep.

 

He has good in pocket mobility and for a bigger QB, he has good escapability outside of the pocket

 

Moves really well for his size. Not a statue in the pocket at all.

 

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

I think earlier in the process when I first was watching him I said Eason is Flacco+ because indeed he seems a bit more fluid and able to roll out of the pocket, but I wouldn't call this a strength for him. 

Don't get me wrong I'm not a huge Eason fan. I think there are better QBs than him in the draft (although if the Colts draft him then I hope there are not better QBs than him in the draft).  But he has more than enough mobility to make plays outside the pocket and when protection breaks down

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