Greg Cosell on the QBs of the 2020 Draft

[OffensivelyPC]

6 minutes ago, Dr. T said:

What do you all think of Cole MCDonald from Hawai'i as a later round pick?

I think he looks better than the FIU kid.

 

He's got a heck of a transition from Hawaii's offense to an NFL offense.  It's probably what keeps him out of the NFL logn term.

[Shive]

On 1/31/2020 at 4:47 PM, Chloe6124 said:

Serious question. Does anyone think that maybe Mitches issues are  coaching. I have faith in our coaching staff to develop a QB. Maybe Mitch is not in a good system and getting bad coaching. It’s not always on the QB.

Mitch came in with red flags due to only starting a single season, but was viewed as a pretty high floor prospect. I think coaching has a lot to do with his struggles. I've never really been sold on Nagy as some kind of "offensive genius" that he was billed as. He had 7 games that he actually called plays in, then was hired as HC of the Bears. Based on the offensive staff they've had, it wouldn't surprise me if they've just done a terrible job developing Mitch.

 

In a vacuum, he's exactly the type of QB for our offense. The concerns about his struggles are the big issue. Are they poor coaching/scheming related or is the problem w/ Mitch? I'd be all for it if CB & Reich thought he would be a good fit and pulled the trigger.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 4:54 PM, richard pallo said:

 Does Ballard strike you as a big risk taker?  Not me.  

He actually does strike me as one. A well calculated risk taker, but one nonetheless. He does his due diligence, builds his draft board, then drafts accordingly. Taking Leonard at the top of the 2nd was a huge risk, but he felt confident in the work he and his scouts did.

All in all, I think risk is in the eye of the beholder. We perceive certain moves as risky, but to the people that have done the due diligence, they're calculated moves. 

[Zoltan]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

Here's Greg Cosell on the Ross Tucker podcast. They talked about the first 3 QBs in the draft(Tua, Burrow, Herbert) and they will talk about other QBs next week. I will not transcribe what he said about Burrow and Tua, because it's very similar to what he said 15 days ago in the OP I posted.

 

https://www.podcastone.com/episode/Greg-Cosell---2020-QB-Preview

 

I will transcribe what he said about Herbert here(Cosell goes on at about 4:00 and talks first about some of the FA QBs - Rivers, Dalton, Taysom Hill?, and then he talks about the 3 QBs):

 

 

He teases he will talk about Jake Luton from Oregon State next week. Seems like he likes him. 

 

I'm an Oregon State Alum, Saw his play first hand it drove me crazy. Luton is not a good QB by a long shot.

[Zoltan]

On 1/31/2020 at 10:58 AM, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I think what scares me the most with Jordan Love is how fast he rises, WHEN NO GAMES ARE HAPPENING.  I always get a little nervous when people fall in love with someone based on their attributes and not on their play.  Not saying he can't play.  I actually really like him also, but he seems BOOM or BUST.

 

The first time I heard of him was actually last September when Mel Kiper was talking about his top 5 college QBs to watch this season.

[stitches]

A new one of Cosell talking about the QBs:

https://post.futurimedia.com/wgfx/playlist/23/listen-7878.html?cb=1582142156.577197

 

He talks about Burrow(exceptional in every way except for arm strength), Tua(will need to succeed from the pocket as a rhythm, precision QB(ala Brees), rather than a Russell Wilson type of playmaker - doesn't have the athleticism) and Herbert(has traits, size, arm strength, mobility... not timing and anticipation thrower, ball placement not as consistent as it needs to be especially on routine throws), Love (more of a ball distributor than Herbert, more of a precision QB, "much to work on with Love, but also a lot to like" - "clearly 1st round talent and he will be drafted in the 1st round") and summarizes them in a similar way to what he's said in other earlier podcasts. Still good to listen to. I will transcribe what he said about Eason and Hurts here:

Quote

 

-Jacob Eason will be a fascinating guy, because all you hear about nowadays is how QBs need to run around and make plays and Eason is a high level throwing talent, great size, he's essentially a pocket QB. Now he's not a statue, but he's not going to make his living making second reaction outside of structure plays. He will succeed or fail based on his ability to play consistently from the pocket. He's a big kid, I've been around Jacob Eason... he's showed some pocket toughness at times to make throws in the face of pressure, which I think is absolutely demanded of pocket QBs. Will he be able to handle NFL pressure and blitz concepts - this will be a question teams will try to get a feel for in the interviews with him. I think he needs to be developed. He played 1 year in Georgia and 1 year in Washington, he's relatively inexperienced, but he's a really good throwing talent. He can make the downfield throws. Something you will look to do with him is playaction shots from under center and he can drive the ball down the field with intermediate and vertical combination route concepts. Even though it seems like the air yards have gotten shorter in the last several years in the league, keep in mind offensive coaches are still looking for explosive pass plays. That's still very very important in this league. In Oklahoma with Lincoln Riley he showed the ability to throw with pace and touch, showed the ability to throw with various ball speeds at times, showed some good pocket play at times. If you didn't know who he was there were many many snaps in which he looked like he could transition to the NFL and play reasonably well. The question is, when you come to the NFL and defenses are a bit more sophisticated, more detailed and offenses are going to ask him to do more things - can he play that way? 

 

 

- Jalen Hurts - the first thing you have to do with him is figure out what you think he is. Is Jalen Hurts the kind of guy that can eventually develop into a Dak Prescott kind of QB? Or is he ultimately the kind of QB where if you decide he's your QB, do you have to think more in therms of a Lamar Jackson and build your offensive foundation with the QB as a runner and not a distributor in the pass game? It comes down to philosophy - what do you think Jalen Hurts is? That's a hard question to answer. Because ultimately with Hurts - he's a better thrower this year in Oklahoma than he was in Alabama, but I'm not sure people will see him as a true really good thrower. 

 

-Jake Luton - great senior year, intriguing to watch on tape... has a lot to work with. Can develop into an NFL starter with the right coaching and the right system. 

 

 

Also, he says Burrow is the best prospect clearly and after that it's in the eye of the beholder for the other 1st round prospects(Tua, Herbert, Love, Eason).

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Colin cowherd had Matt Miller on today. They both said if Eason was coming out five years ago he would be the number one pick. They talked about why his style doesn’t work in the NFL right now.

[chad72]

Just saw this clip from 2017, never knew Jon Gruden to be prophetic:

 

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2017/04/18/jon-gruden-patrick-mahomes-top-quarterback-nfl-draft/

 

[chad72]

On 2/19/2020 at 4:52 PM, stitches said:

A new one of Cosell talking about the QBs:

https://post.futurimedia.com/wgfx/playlist/23/listen-7878.html?cb=1582142156.577197

 

He talks about Burrow(exceptional in every way except for arm strength), Tua(will need to succeed from the pocket as a rhythm, precision QB(ala Brees), rather than a Russell Wilson type of playmaker - doesn't have the athleticism) and Herbert(has traits, size, arm strength, mobility... not timing and anticipation thrower, ball placement not as consistent as it needs to be especially on routine throws), Love (more of a ball distributor than Herbert, more of a precision QB, "much to work on with Love, but also a lot to like" - "clearly 1st round talent and he will be drafted in the 1st round") and summarizes them in a similar way to what he's said in other earlier podcasts. Still good to listen to. I will transcribe what he said about Eason and Hurts here:

 

Also, he says Burrow is the best prospect clearly and after that it's in the eye of the beholder for the other 1st round prospects(Tua, Herbert, Love, Eason).

 

 

Eason gives me the Mason Rudolph feel to me.

[stitches]

Here's Cosell on Ross Tucker's podcast talking about tier 2 QBs(Love, Fromm, Eason, Hurts, Luton):

https://www.podcastone.com/episode/Greg-Cosell---2020-Tier-2-QB-Preview-

 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

50 minutes ago, stitches said:

Here's Cosell on Ross Tucker's podcast talking about tier 2 QBs(Love, Fromm, Eason, Hurts, Luton):

https://www.podcastone.com/episode/Greg-Cosell---2020-Tier-2-QB-Preview-

 

 

Just keep supplementing these sorts of threads all year.  You do all this for nothing, but you do a hell of a job keeping us informed and I appreciate it.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 1/31/2020 at 10:37 AM, Shive said:

I honestly think the injury concerns with Tua are completely overblown. Take the hip injury out of the equation. Experts have said that it was a freak injury that you almost never see in the NFL and anyone in that same situation likely would have suffered the same fate. He had a strained knee that didn't cause him miss a snap and besides that and the hip, he's had 2 injured ankles that he opted for surgery to fix. Those were both due to a OL & a defender rolling up on his ankle. Almost anyone that happens to suffers that exact injury.

 

Similar to a motor vehicle accident injury, yes.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 10:37 AM, Shive said:

 

We're not talking nagging quad, hamstring, back issues or torn ACLs. We're talking impact injuries that anyone else would suffer in the same circumstance. The question is if there's something he does as a QB that puts himself in these positions where an injury is more likely and if so, what he can do to remedy that.

 

No matter his positioning, he is likely to be susceptible to another dislocation again, unfortunately.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 10:45 AM, stitches said:

The question is not whether someone else would have suffered the same injury... the question is - now that he's suffered that hip injury, what's the chance that he recovers fully and what's the chance of reinjury and early retirement? This is not exaggeration.

 

Agreed

 

On 1/31/2020 at 10:45 AM, stitches said:

This is a much worse injury than an ACL. Players return after torn ACL and play at very high level nowadays all the time. We have really small sample of players with this type of hip injury and the few examples are not great. Dennis Pitta never had any hip problems before he suffered the same injury and after it he reinjured the same hip twice in 2 years and had to retire. Bo Jackson had the same injury and he had to retire because of it too.

 

True, but each instance has it's own unique scenario.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 12:27 PM, Shive said:

My position was based more on the comments that he's injury prone, which I don't entirely agree with.

 

I have no position on this right now.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 12:27 PM, Shive said:

His ability to recover from the hip injury and play at a high level is definitely a fair concern though. I don't see Bo Jackson's injury as comparable since medical technology & techniques are far superior now than back then, but Pitta's injury is definitely relevant. My hope is that Pitta's issues didn't lie with the injury in itself, but the subsequent rehab process & most likely being on a rushed timetable to get back on the field. Luckily Tua will have the time to sit for a year and not have to rush back, which could definitely help his long-term recovery.

 

All of that may figure in etc...  but I feel the condition of, blood supply to, and the healing of the articular cartilage is the most pressing issue. And it is still too early for that determination. (+ AVN)

 

And for every Bo Jackson/Dennis Pitta story, there is also a C.J. Mosley success story.  I hope well for the kid. 

 

On 1/31/2020 at 12:27 PM, Shive said:

 

I think for Tua, it all comes down to the medicals these next few months. If he gets the green light on the hip from doctors, he'll be a top QB pick.

 

* For the record, I'm personally not sold on Tua as the QB for us and him being a lefty concerns me too (which may be completely a ridiculous concern).

 

[stitches]

 

 

Here's the first leaked scouting report on a QB by Greg Cosell for this year.