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Senior Bowl Gameday thread

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1 minute ago, MikeCurtis said:

This is a HUGE point

 

Everyone says “Just trade up and get your guy”

 

The Lions and Redskins picks are the only real options

 

The Redskins will almost HAVE to stay put and pick Chase Young a kid better than BOTH Bosas...... 
 

That leaves Lions before the QBs Not named Burrows start going off the board

 

I see a few teams that are in front of us... Carolina, Miami, and LAC that have a better first round picks to offer to Detroit ..... It will be a bidding war


If you look at Miami, they need a QB

If you look at LAC, they need a QB

The wildcard is Carolina. But really.....  Our current QB Situation is arguably BETTER than Carolinas...... (Many many reports that Cam is done there)

 

There are teams like NE, Maybe MN, Raiders, TB that might go for a QB and trade for it

 

It will be an interesting draft day

 

I would be surprised if there weren’t 4 QBs taken off the board before our pick

 

 

Carolina could be a trade partner if they don’t want a QB. With what I have heard from their coach I bet they take defense. He has Ben on record as liking Grier a lot when he coached against him. They would be. Smart to wait to see him Cam can get fully healthy. They aren’t getting much in a trade for him. Don’t know how much it would cost to cut him.  We are ok as long as Oakland and panthers don’t take a QB. One will be there. 

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24 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Just one note of caution....JEFF GEORGE.

Don’t say that name......

 

Thats from the days where Jim Irsay thought he was a wheeling dealing dude

 

We gave up some great picks and players to get a self focused meat head

 

How about the Fredd Young trade... TWO first round picks 

 

How about Eric Dickerson?  The guy ended up being a self focused meathead

I remember him telling the local press... Did you see any holes out there

We gave up much to get him

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Carolina could be a trade partner if they don’t want a QB. With what I have heard from their coach I bet they take defense. He has Ben on record as liking Grier a lot when he coached against him. They would be. Smart to wait to see him Cam can get fully healthy. They aren’t getting much in a trade for him. Don’t know how much it would cost to cut him.  We are ok as long as Oakland and panthers don’t take a QB. One will be there. 

You may end up being right, but there may be others that want that spot as well

 

If CB is in Love with Love.... I say get him at 13.....

 

I just don’t see enough to trade multiple awesome picks to get Love before 13

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2 hours ago, stitches said:

Usually after the combine. I still think for most non-injured players(Tua) the meetings and interviews with the prospects are more important for the teams especially at QB than anything they can show on a football field in non-competitive environment(pro days, drills at combine, etc.)

There is no doubt a guy like Fromm will do well in his interviews. The guy is smart and good leader. Just wondering if there is anyway Fromm or Eason jump Love on somebody board that is ahead of us. I don’t think so. Carolina really is the wildcard.  Could Jags actually take a QB? Is there a team picking in the 20’s that could pull a KC. We will find out here soon.

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5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Carolina could be a trade partner if they don’t want a QB. With what I have heard from their coach I bet they take defense. He has Ben on record as liking Grier a lot when he coached against him. They would be. Smart to wait to see him Cam can get fully healthy. They aren’t getting much in a trade for him. Don’t know how much it would cost to cut him.  We are ok as long as Oakland and panthers don’t take a QB. One will be there. 

I can actually see the Raiders using the pick in front of us for Love... if he is still there

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3 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I can actually see the Raiders using the pick in front of us for Love... if he is still there

That is why panthers could be a trade partner. Reading a interview with Mayok I don’t think they would pass up a Kinlaw if he is there. They have a good QB so passing up a guy like that for QB would be dumb. We are in a much different situation with QB.

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I have ALWAYS thought that accuracy, instinct, and pocket awareness were the best traits I look for in a QB.  Remember, although his arm wasn't exactly "weak", Peyton's arm strength probably wasn't in the upper echelon on the NFL.  But Peyton was SO much smarter, he could anticipate,  he could throw WR's open, and he was pretty accurate.  And once he settled in, he stopped turning the ball over so much.  I would take a QB like that over a guy who can just throw it through a wall but doesn't do those other things as well.

 

If we can find a guy like that whether that be in the draft or in FA, I'm all for it, no matter what his name is.

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55 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

There is no doubt a guy like Fromm will do well in his interviews. The guy is smart and good leader. Just wondering if there is anyway Fromm or Eason jump Love on somebody board that is ahead of us. I don’t think so. Carolina really is the wildcard.  Could Jags actually take a QB? Is there a team picking in the 20’s that could pull a KC. We will find out here soon.

I think Fromm is the type of Qb that BB would draft.  Maybe Peyton too. If Fromm passes the throwing tests (and I think he probably will), they'll take him in the first round at pick 23 and 24 respectively, IMO, if they desire a rookie QB.  I'd think BUFs pick 22 is the place to get him.

 

And I'm not sure that Love did a lot to resolve any decision making questions.  We know he can throw.  I know we all want the next Mahomes, but I can see BB or Peyton having Fromm ranked higher than Love in the end. Never know, Love might be available at pick 25, then we compete with the other teams who didn't get a QB in early round 1 to move up to take Love in late round 1.

 

I think Eason is the guy who is going to have too many unresolved questions, or definitive weaknesses that take time to develop, both throwing and mental.  I see him as being the only QB other than Gordon available at 34, and Gordon probably not below 44. 

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I'm not sure why everyone is so obsessed with us taking a QB and trying to figure out how we would get one. I mean I know it's fun in a way to sleuth and conspire, however I'm not sure the Colts are going to take a QB at all. I'm also not sure they are going to grab one in FA either. I mean I could certainly be wrong, however why the need to grab one right now? This team is not ready to compete for a SB right now at all. They WERE ready with Luck as he was the "X" factor, but without Luck, we are not fully ready. So drafting a QB might give the fan base hope and excitement about a future players potential, but does it get us to win right now? I don't think so, as we DO need WR's and interior and exterior rush guys too, as well as O-line if Anthony retires but most assuredly to better ourselves over Glowinski.

 

What would you rather have? A QB right now that most likely will take time to develop, meaning we won't win many games in 2020, or a chance at maybe a more polished QB like Lawrence in 2021 if the Colts don't win too many games in 2020 with what they have. The alternative is that in 2020 the Colts do get better either with Jacoby or Chad, win games, and we would have pieces we drafted in areas of WR and DT and O-line that actually put us closer to complete team and we all get surprised. 

 

Either way, I'm a Colts fan. I'm just not sold on taking a QB at all this year via draft and only a guy like Mariota if it's FA. 

 

Go Colts!!

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11 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

While Gordon had a good game he didn't address the issue of accuracy beyond 20 yards, and with his not terrible but not good week at the SB. I really don't think he helped his stock.

Gordon has always been a 3rd day pick and I don't think that has changed.  He may have worked himself into the3rd round.

11 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

As for Love I don't see him falling outside of the 1st round.

We shall see

11 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

Remember the week of Prep is what's important to the scouts not the game

prep is important no doubt but seeing how uncomfortable Love looked I'm willing to bet his prep week was not as good as some writers tried to make it out to be.

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In my opinion  there are five qbs in this draft that are an immediate  upgrade to Brissett.  Burrow, tua, Love, Herbert,  and Fromm  could all start  from day one behind our line and throw more tds and win more games than Brissett. 

Hurts, Gordon, and Eason are my second tier guys who I feel need more development  than the top five. Eason struggles  alot when pressured.

Gordon while he has a quick release I have to see more from him deep plus he is small.

Hurts need to see more in the passing game  

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11 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

As long as the panthers and raiders go defense or WR Love or Herbert will be there. It’s just whether you want to take that risk or move up.  I think both those teams are probably going defense. Especially if Brown anc Kinlaw are there. Panthers could be a trade partner if we think Oakland might take a QB. There is always a team pulls a KC though and wants one of them even though they are winning. Vikings and titans come to mind.

 

I haven't been very involved with this stuff recently. But the little I have heard is that Herbert made himself an inside the top 10 pick lock after the Sr. Bowl practices and game.

 

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I can actually see the Raiders using the pick in front of us for Love... if he is still there

 

Jon Gruden is 'the' QB guru head coach, with a massive length HC contract.  I'm confident he will get one. Question is... who is it?  And where does he pull the trigger?

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44 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I'm not sure why everyone is so obsessed with us taking a QB and trying to figure out how we would get one. I mean I know it's fun in a way to sleuth and conspire, however I'm not sure the Colts are going to take a QB at all. I'm also not sure they are going to grab one in FA either. I mean I could certainly be wrong, however why the need to grab one right now? This team is not ready to compete for a SB right now at all. They WERE ready with Luck as he was the "X" factor, but without Luck, we are not fully ready. So drafting a QB might give the fan base hope and excitement about a future players potential, but does it get us to win right now? I don't think so, as we DO need WR's and interior and exterior rush guys too, as well as O-line if Anthony retires but most assuredly to better ourselves over Glowinski.

 

What would you rather have? A QB right now that most likely will take time to develop, meaning we won't win many games in 2020, or a chance at maybe a more polished QB like Lawrence in 2021 if the Colts don't win too many games in 2020 with what they have. The alternative is that in 2020 the Colts do get better either with Jacoby or Chad, win games, and we would have pieces we drafted in areas of WR and DT and O-line that actually put us closer to complete team and we all get surprised. 

 

Either way, I'm a Colts fan. I'm just not sold on taking a QB at all this year via draft and only a guy like Mariota if it's FA. 

 

Go Colts!!

Reiterating my earlier prognostication - DL, WR, OL in that order.  :spit:

 

JB opens the season at QB, even though CK shines in camp.  By Week Four - CK starts.

 

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2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

This is a HUGE point

 

Everyone says “Just trade up and get your guy”

 

The Lions and Redskins picks are the only real options

 

The Redskins will almost HAVE to stay put and pick Chase Young a kid better than BOTH Bosas...... 
 

That leaves Lions before the QBs Not named Burrows start going off the board

 

I see a few teams that are in front of us... Carolina, Miami, and LAC that have a better first round picks to offer to Detroit ..... It will be a bidding war


If you look at Miami, they need a QB

If you look at LAC, they need a QB

The wildcard is Carolina. But really.....  Our current QB Situation is arguably BETTER than Carolinas...... (Many many reports that Cam is done there)

 

There are teams like NE, Maybe MN, Raiders, TB that might go for a QB and trade for it

 

It will be an interesting draft day

 

I would be surprised if there weren’t 4 QBs taken off the board before our pick

 

 

I can actually see a scenario where the Lions trade back twice.  First with the Dolphins so they can get the QB they want and I'm thinking Tua.  That leaves the Lions at 5.  They could trade back again and acquire even more picks.  That could amount to quite a haul for them.  If we want Herbert I'm thinking pick 5 or 6 is where he will go.  I think Carolina is going to go with Grier and Cam so they might be open as well.  If Love is our guy then the Cardinals at 8 or the Browns at 10 might work.  I think the Lions have the keys here.  If they are definitely staying with Stafford it would make more sense for them to trade back at least once IMO.

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47 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Gordon has always been a 3rd day pick and I don't think that has changed.  He may have worked himself into the3rd round.

We shall see

prep is important no doubt but seeing how uncomfortable Love looked I'm willing to bet his prep week was not as good as some writers tried to make it out to be.

He didn’t look uncomfortable.

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22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I haven't been very involved with this stuff recently. But the little I have heard is that Herbert made himself an inside the top 10 pick lock after the Sr. Bowl practices and game.

 

 

Jon Gruden is 'the' QB guru head coach, with a massive length HC contract.  I'm confident he will get one. Question is... who is it?  And where does he pull the trigger?

Mayok had a interview and like ballard stressed DT. When you already have a QB as good as Carr It would be dumb to pass on a guy like Kinlaw.

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43 minutes ago, Stephen said:

In my opinion  there are five qbs in this draft that are an immediate  upgrade to Brissett.  Burrow, tua, Love, Herbert,  and Fromm  could all start  from day one behind our line and throw more tds and win more games than Brissett. 

Hurts, Gordon, and Eason are my second tier guys who I feel need more development  than the top five. Eason struggles  alot when pressured.

Gordon while he has a quick release I have to see more from him deep plus he is small.

Hurts need to see more in the passing game  

 

Tua's health is still the X factor right now.  Here is a scouting report (by a real respected scout) overview of 5 QB's practice days at the Senior Bowl recently.  Sorry for length:

 

South team QB's

 

Tuesday-
QB Justin Herbert, Oregon
Herbert looked phenomenal on Tuesday displaying all the physical tools and leadership skills necessary for the next level. He was right on the money with many of his throws and his pass placement was off the charts. He made plays in and out of the pocket, displayed a next level arm and great athleticism. His incomplete passes were more about drops by receivers rather than missed throws on his part. And when his receivers dropped a pass Herbert was there to take charge. Terrific day by the Oregon quarterback.

 

Wednesday-
QB Justin Herbert, Oregon
It was another effective day for Herbert, though one could make the argument he was slightly better yesterday. He was right on the money with his throws and showed terrific pass placement. I don’t think Herbert had as many dynamic throws today, but he also had fewer errant passes and misses. Again, he displayed a good degree of leadership throughout the entire session.

 

Thursday-
QB Justin Herbert, Oregon
Thursday was another terrific practice for Herbert. While he probably had more misses Thursday than any of the previous two days, he consistently showed the ability to drop the ball in the bucket and place passes where only his target could come away with the reception.

 


Tuesday-
QB Jalen Hurts, Oklahoma
Hurts had his struggles today, especially early on. He was often late delivering passes and receivers were waiting for the ball to arrive. Several of his attempts had pass catchers leaving their feet to grab the pass from midair. I got the idea watching Hurts, he is much more comfortable playing in Oklahoma’s wide open system and it’s going to take some adjustment to get accustomed to an NFL type of scheme.

 

Wednesday-
QB Jalen Hurts, Oklahoma
If Hurts struggled on Tuesday, he was just outright bad on Wednesday. Excluding one terrific pass he placed in the hands of Stephen Sullivan down the left sideline, Hurts was off the mark all day. He missed wide open receivers throwing against air and put pass catchers in perilous positions when they were covered.

 

Thursday-
QB Jalen Hurts, Oklahoma
Thursday was a slightly better day for Hurts, and it was quite possibly his best practice of the week. He showed better accuracy and throws a catchable ball, but he still forced too many passes and missed a number of open receivers.

 


North team QB's


Tuesday-
QB Jordan Love, Utah State
Love did not have quite the day of Justin Herbert but he wasn’t far behind. He made several magnificent passes throughout the day and drew a lot of praise from the scouts around me. He has a super quick, super-efficient release, a live arm and showed some beautiful pass placement. There were a couple of passes that got away from him and he was not quite as effective on the move compared to Herbert, but it was an “A” day for Love.

 

Wednesday-
QB Jordan Love, Utah State
Love had another terrific day on Wednesday. While one could argue he was more inconsistent than Day 1, most of his throws were on the mark and delivered with great speed, and most of the time he made really good decisions

 

Thursday-
QB Jordan Love, Utah State
Thursday was another solid day for Love, although one could argue he was not as effective as he was the prior two practices. He displayed a big-league arm and got the ball through tight windows, but he also made some questionable throws that included one bad interception.

 


Tuesday-
QB Anthony Gordon, Washington State
Gordon displayed a lot of next level physical skills and possesses an NFL arm. He also needs a lot of work on his game. While he showed the ability to fire the ball into targets, his pass placement and accuracy was all over the place. When Gordon needed to drop a ball into the tight window, he was unable.

 

Wednesday-
QB Anthony Gordon, Washington State
While Gordon has his moments on Wednesday, for the most part he showed a lot of inconsistency. He did a better job placing throws and dropping them into targets’ hands today, but all too often he was off the mark and had receivers leaving their feet or adjusting backwards to grab the ball from the air.

 

Thursday-
QB Anthony Gordon, Washington State
Gordon was better Thursday than he was the prior two practices. He showed better accuracy and decision-making. He was not as hesitant as he was during Tuesday’s and Wednesday’s sessions.


Tuesday-
QB Shea Patterson, Michigan
Patterson showed much of the same today that we he showed the past two years- a lot of inconsistency. He made a few nice throws but for the most part was late delivering the ball and was all over the place with his throws.

 

Wednesday-
QB Shea Patterson, Michigan
It was not a good day for Patterson, as his practice bordered on terrible. He made one terrific pass downfield, which was promptly dropped by Antonio Gandy-Golden, but just about every other throw all day was wide of the mark. Too many times his receivers had almost no chance to catch the ball as Patterson was missing so badly.

 

Thursday-
QB Shea Patterson, Michigan
Thursday was hands down Patterson’s best practice of the week. He was much more accurate and decisive, and while he had a few misses, he was mostly on the mark with his throws all day.

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7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Mayok had a interview and like ballard stressed DT. When you already have a QB as good as Carr It would be dumb to pass on a guy like Kinlaw.

 

While they make statements that seem (and may be) true, make no mistake teams will not willingly signal their draft intentions to other teams. Mayok is responsible to get players Jon wants and coaches.  Gruden loves QB's, and also traded Khalil Mack. Trading Carr is only 5 million dead cap.  Depends upon Gruden deciding if Derek can run his playbook well enough.  Maybe Tom Brady goes to the Raiders.  We'll see.

 

 

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Ballard and Reich have both stressed accuracy as being one of the biggest things for a QB. Herbert had almost 67% accuracy this year. So maybe he is the one they want. Loves was 64% in 2018 so still pretty good. More accurate QB or the one with more playmaking off script ability. If they some how are able to get Herbert I predict he will be the starter day 1. He would probably fit seamlessly right into Reichs system. 

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Finally got to watch some game film from yesterday.  I won't add to the QB discussion.  That seems to be just about all anyone is talking about.  What I saw was that my guy, Calvin Throckmorton, who I was following all year, and hoping could be something, wound up having a TERRIBLE game.  Especially against speed rushers.  The commentators even said that he's gonna have to move inside.

 

Well, ththththhhh....

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20 hours ago, LockeDown said:

That’s how I feel as well. Kinlaw is going to be awesome.

 Thirding this.

 

I LOVE love don't get me wrong. I've beat his drum here before. That being said Kinlaw with the 13th and Anthony Gordon in a later round doesn't make me mad at all. I was impressed with his performance and now digging into his 2019 season I like it.

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13 minutes ago, Kenzicocapontas said:

 Thirding this.

 

I LOVE love don't get me wrong. I've beat his drum here before. That being said Kinlaw with the 13th and Anthony Gordon in a later round doesn't make me mad at all. I was impressed with his performance and now digging into his 2019 season I like it.

If we don't 't get love or herbert then I want fromm 

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Just for fun, I’m staying a case for Jake Fromm. 


Imo, Fromm is the most mentally tough, the best leader, the most accurate and the most battle tested from playing and winning in the SEC for 3 years.

 

He is 35-7 in his career starts. He is 9-0 against his rivals Florida, Tennessee and Georgia Tech. He is 3-1 against Auburn. His only losses were to Alabam, LSU, Auburn and overtime loss to South Carolina. Perennial powerhouses in the nation.

 

Jacob Eason could never get his starting position back from Fromm and Fields couldn’t take it away. Top recruits in the nation.

 

Renner of PFF said his highly efficient play is a direct result of his being one of the nations most precise passers . At the time of the article he was the nations highest graded QB by them.


Ballard and Reich said they valued mental toughness and accuracy. Fromm is number 1 in both categories. If they had said a live arm or something like that I never heard that from them. 
 

 

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2 hours ago, Stephen said:

In my opinion  there are five qbs in this draft that are an immediate  upgrade to Brissett.  Burrow, tua, Love, Herbert,  and Fromm  could all start  from day one behind our line and throw more tds and win more games than Brissett. 

Hurts, Gordon, and Eason are my second tier guys who I feel need more development  than the top five. Eason struggles  alot when pressured.

Gordon while he has a quick release I have to see more from him deep plus he is small.

Hurts need to see more in the passing game  

I don't disagree at all, just some semantics.  I think all would give us the same level of play as JB at the least, not so much an upgrade immediately.  Also, JB did not throw interceptions and I see Love probably throwing down field in a risky fashion more than the others when it comes to taking care of the ball.

 

Since I think we would be getting the same level of play, but with upside to get better, I don't see an issue with taking any of the top 5 with our 13th pick, provided that the bottom 2, Fromm/Love have some of their concerns answered before draft day.

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8 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

Just for fun, I’m staying a case for Jake Fromm. 


Imo, Fromm is the most mentally tough, the best leader, the most accurate and the most battle tested from playing and winning in the SEC for 3 years.

 

He is 35-7 in his career starts. He is 9-0 against his rivals Florida, Tennessee and Georgia Tech. He is 3-1 against Auburn. His only losses were to Alabam, LSU, Auburn and overtime loss to South Carolina. Perennial powerhouses in the nation.

 

Jacob Eason could never get his starting position back from Fromm and Fields couldn’t take it away. Top recruits in the nation.

 

Renner of PFF said his highly efficient play is a direct result of his being one of the nations most precise passers . At the time of the article he was the nations highest graded QB by them.


Ballard and Reich said they valued mental toughness and accuracy. Fromm is number 1 in both categories. If they had said a live arm or something like that I never heard that from them. 
 

That’s that. 

Agree.  The only thing is does his arm translate to the NFL game, and some mobility issues.  So its up to what happens at pro day and with some of the analysis, but I'm close to thinking of him as the 4th best Qb in the draft displacing Love, who I think might carry some risks.

 

I think Reich and Ballard want consistency more than splash, which tends to also come with negative splash too, unless you're one of a kind like Mahomes.

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16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't disagree at all, just some semantics.  I think all would give us the same level of play as JB at the least, not so much an upgrade immediately.  Also, JB did not throw interceptions and I see Love probably throwing down field in a risky fashion more than the others when it comes to taking care of the ball.

 

Since I think we would be getting the same level of play, but with upside to get better, I don't see an issue with taking any of the top 5 with our 13th pick, provided that the bottom 2, Fromm/Love have some of their concerns answered before draft day.

Love seems like more of a gunslinger  than Brisset. I think frank Reich  can help limit his turnovers

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17 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Love seems like more of a gunslinger  than Brisset. I think frank Reich  can help limit his turnovers

Agreed.  The issue I'm having with Love, and it may not even have to with him per se and more about what people like about him, is the description of how he throws on the run, etc.  Athleticism combined with arm talent.

 

Despite Mahomes being a unique QB, and Lamar being a different kind of QB, I still say the QB position is designed to be played from the pocket.  

 

I simply haven't seen much discussion on Love's ability....or just as important willingness..... to stay in the pocket and go through his reads, then deliver the ball with great arm talent.  I'm sure there are highlights of that, but I want to know if he has a tendency to try to be Mahomes after staying in the pocket for 2 to 3 seconds and gets nervous trying to make a play when he may not have to.  Sometimes that can't be dialed back by a coach.  I just don't know about Love's prowess from the pocket on a consistent basis.  It just hasn't been talked about.

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33 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  The issue I'm having with Love, and it may not even have to with him per se and more about what people like about him, is the description of how he throws on the run, etc.  Athleticism combined with arm talent.

 

Despite Mahomes being a unique QB, and Lamar being a different kind of QB, I still say the QB position is designed to be played from the pocket.  

 

I simply haven't seen much discussion on Love's ability....or just as important willingness..... to stay in the pocket and go through his reads, then deliver the ball with great arm talent.  I'm sure there are highlights of that, but I want to know if he has a tendency to try to be Mahomes after staying in the pocket for 2 to 3 seconds and gets nervous trying to make a play when he may not have to.  Sometimes that can't be dialed back by a coach.  I just don't know about Love's prowess from the pocket on a consistent basis.  It just hasn't been talked about.

He's great in the pocket when he's kept clean. He makes plays out of the pocket when the pocket collapses. He's one of the best QBs in this draft when it comes to pocket presence - he usually doesn't leave the pocket just to leave the pocket(sometimes Wilson and Mahomes would do this and make a play). IMO he's more Luck/Wentz-ish than Mahomes/Wilson in this particular aspect - he tries to stay in the pocket and navigates it expertly and make throws from the pocket, but once the pocket collapses he turns into Mahomes type that will escape the pocket and sling it, sometimes to his detriment. PFF had some great stats on that. I will try to find them - (returns after 5 minutes of searching with the info) The converted pressures to sacks for him was just 10.5%. This is elite level, especially when you consider how horrible his OLine was and under how much pressure he was. When he's kept clean and his receiver has even an ounce of separation he's been money - he's ranked no. 2 in the entire country in big time throws when his receiver has a step or more of separation with 23 big time throws and he has only 2 turnover worthy plays on such plays. 

 

It's a bit counter-intuitive because what I'm saying is he has the ability to make plays out of structure but his grading comes down and his bad plays come predominantly when things collapse around him. This is IMO where the decision making needs to improve. Yes he makes the big time throws, yes he has enough plays out of structure to show you he can do it, but he also makes some headscratching decisions in those situations and he pushes his luck way too much out of structure and it results in bad plays and lowered efficiency(passer rating of only 51 under pressure). At least it did this year. 

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8 minutes ago, stitches said:

He's great in the pocket when he's kept clean. He makes plays out of the pocket when the pocket collapses. He's one of the best QBs in this draft when it comes to pocket presence - he usually doesn't leave the pocket just to leave the pocket(sometimes Wilson and Mahomes would do this and make a play). IMO he's more Luck/Wentz-ish than Mahomes/Wilson in this particular aspect - he tries to stay in the pocket and navigates it expertly and make throws from the pocket, but once the pocket collapses he turns into Mahomes type that will escape the pocket and sling it, sometimes to his detriment. PFF had some great stats on that. I will try to find them - (returns after 5 minutes of searching with the info) The converted pressures to sacks for him was just 10.5%. This is elite level. When he's kept clean and his receiver has even an ounce of separation he's been money - he's ranked no. 2 in the entire country in big time throws when his receiver has a step or more of separation with 23 big time throws and he has only 2 turnover worthy plays on such plays. 

 

It's a bit counter-intuitive because what I'm saying is he has the ability to make plays out of structure but his grading comes down and his bad plays come predominantly when things collapse around him. This is IMO where the decision making needs to improve. Yes he makes the big time throws, yes he has enough plays out of structure to show you he can do it, but he also makes some headscratching decisions in those situations and he pushes his luck way too much out of structure and it results in bad plays and lowered efficiency(passer rating of only 51 under pressure). At least it did this year. 

That's fine.  Relative to what I was saying about comments relative to athleticism and arm talent, about 75% of the words you typed spoke to that aspect again, out of structure, about 25% of related to what he does while in the pocket, or during 5 seconds of structure.  In the NFL, the importance is reversed from what you're speaking of.  Just sayin.

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9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

That's fine.  Relative to what I was saying about comments relative to athleticism and arm talent, about 85% of the words you typed spoke to that aspect again, out of structure, about 15% of related to what he does while in the pocket, or during 5 seconds of structure.  In the NFL, the importance is reversed from what you're speaking of.  Just sayin.

I've talked plenty about his in pocket play. About his touch, about his accuracy, about different types of throws he has in his arsenal, about manipulating safeties, etc. With that said, his out of structure playmaking potential is the thing that can raise him to a different level. 

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think i agree that Love is a lot like Luck.

I don't think he's a lot like Luck... His pocket presence and movement in the pocket is similar(still not quite as good as Luck's). But he's nowhere near as good pre-snap managing the game and the LOS, the protections. He has nowhere near the level of mental processing of the game that Luck had, etc. You can see him do full field progression reads once in a while, but Luck was actually a master of those. 

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4 hours ago, Stephen said:

In my opinion  there are five qbs in this draft that are an immediate  upgrade to Brissett.  Burrow, tua, Love, Herbert,  and Fromm  could all start  from day one behind our line and throw more tds and win more games than Brissett. 

Hurts, Gordon, and Eason are my second tier guys who I feel need more development  than the top five. Eason struggles  alot when pressured.

Gordon while he has a quick release I have to see more from him deep plus he is small.

Hurts need to see more in the passing game  

Gordon is THIN but not small

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20 minutes ago, stitches said:

I don't think he's a lot like Luck... His pocket presence and movement in the pocket is similar(still not quite as good as Luck's). But he's nowhere near as good pre-snap managing the game and the LOS, the protections. He has nowhere near the level of mental processing of the game that Luck had, etc. You can see him do full field progression reads once in a while, but Luck was actually a master of those. 

I was talking more to the observation that Love is a pocket passer like Luck but can make plays off script. He clearly isn’t on Lucks level. Although maybe he could of been at a bigger school.

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I'm quite late to the party but here were my thoughts:

 

3 Best Throws
1. Hurts TD- Dude was under a lot of pressure all game and that deserves some mention had at least one bad mistake, but that was a 30ish yard dime

2. Gordon's 2nd TD- Dude looked like he was playing backyard football when he threw it side armed off his back foot, but damn if it didn't look good.

3. Love's Missed Deep Pass- I don't think the pressure was really ALL that bad, but it was everything you wanted to see out of him this game except the WR losing sight of it.

 

QB Rankings (For Just This Game, Calm Down)

1. Herbert- He remains the only QB at 13 I'd be quite happy for. I'm content rolling with Love at the pick too, but Herbert seems more polished and fits our offense I think.

2. Gordon- That release was fantastic. 2 solid TD drives. Like Eason and Fromm, this guy stands the best chance from here on out of raising their stock significantly. I want to see some deep balls and for godsake put on 20 pounds!

3. Love- He was second only to Hurts in falling victim to crappy circumstances. Playcalling was not his friend. I can confirm Love can hand off the ball. Two passes he had didn't even look errant, looked like the WRs were off-sync. 

4. Hurts- I haven't really looked at reactions, but I imagine some people are being pretty harsh on the guy. But no one had more pressure on them today than Hurts. But when he had room to throw I think he was great. He had some straight up errors though that set him below the other guys, but he showed some nice stuff.

5. Some Other Guys- No Comment

 

MISC

-Gandy-Golden continues to dazzle me. How fast is this guy? - is my only question. Otherwise he just LOOKS the part of a future star. 

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On 1/25/2020 at 3:23 PM, NFLfan said:

@stitches Are there any offensive linemen playing in this game with whom you are impressed? Thanks. 

Keith Ismael looked good. He's a Center but he could probably play OG. When Ryan Kelly gets hurt Ismael could be his backup

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13 hours ago, funktacious2 said:

I'm quite late to the party but here were my thoughts:

 

3 Best Throws
1. Hurts TD- Dude was under a lot of pressure all game and that deserves some mention had at least one bad mistake, but that was a 30ish yard dime

2. Gordon's 2nd TD- Dude looked like he was playing backyard football when he threw it side armed off his back foot, but damn if it didn't look good.

3. Love's Missed Deep Pass- I don't think the pressure was really ALL that bad, but it was everything you wanted to see out of him this game except the WR losing sight of it.

 

QB Rankings (For Just This Game, Calm Down)

1. Herbert- He remains the only QB at 13 I'd be quite happy for. I'm content rolling with Love at the pick too, but Herbert seems more polished and fits our offense I think.

2. Gordon- That release was fantastic. 2 solid TD drives. Like Eason and Fromm, this guy stands the best chance from here on out of raising their stock significantly. I want to see some deep balls and for godsake put on 20 pounds!

3. Love- He was second only to Hurts in falling victim to crappy circumstances. Playcalling was not his friend. I can confirm Love can hand off the ball. Two passes he had didn't even look errant, looked like the WRs were off-sync. 

4. Hurts- I haven't really looked at reactions, but I imagine some people are being pretty harsh on the guy. But no one had more pressure on them today than Hurts. But when he had room to throw I think he was great. He had some straight up errors though that set him below the other guys, but he showed some nice stuff.

5. Some Other Guys- No Comment

 

MISC

-Gandy-Golden continues to dazzle me. How fast is this guy? - is my only question. Otherwise he just LOOKS the part of a future star. 

Hurts TD pass was nice, he dropped that right over the top and of the defender and into the arms.

 

Gordon's TD pass, like you stated, falling over and still placed it exactly where it needed to be.  But, IMO, even more impressive was the pass in the endzone that wasn't a TD.  They just got backed up by a holding call and he threw a dart at the back of the endzone the ND receiver just could not come down with his feet in bounds.  But the zip and ball placement on that pass were near perfect.

 

I thought Love's pass in the 1st quarter was going for a TD.  I think the receiver just lost it in the sun.

 

Found a link for the Gordon pass https://twitter.com/i/status/1221191244564426753

 

Like one of the comments in the thread.  It was a great throw but all the announcers talked about was how he could have ran the ball.  He doesn't have a huge arm, but scrambling to the left and throwing that pass 25 yards on a rope shows he has the arm strength for the NFL.

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13 hours ago, GoColts00 said:

Keith Ismael looked good. He's a Center but he could probably play OG. When Ryan Kelly gets hurt Ismael could be his backup

I can confirm this . He looked like one of the few linemen that had somewhat of a success against Kinlaw the first couple of days.

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19 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Gordon is THIN but not small

That's  what I mean 

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19 hours ago, DougDew said:

That's fine.  Relative to what I was saying about comments relative to athleticism and arm talent, about 75% of the words you typed spoke to that aspect again, out of structure, about 25% of related to what he does while in the pocket, or during 5 seconds of structure.  In the NFL, the importance is reversed from what you're speaking of.  Just sayin.

A more mobile version  of Brett Farve

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