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QB Jordon Love The Colts Firt Round Pick?

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1 hour ago, JR Indy said:


But the question should be is Jordan Love better than JB. And the answer to that is yes. If the Colts pick him at 13. I don’t see him sitting the bench long. I see him out playing JB from the start of TC. And if you thought the noise from the fan base for Chad Kelly was loud. It will be even louder if they select Jordan Love at 13

I get your logic and of course no one really knows what any prospect will actually do in the NFL

 

But.... on the surface

 

on paper

Love has a much higher ceiling than JB

Eason has a much higher ceiling than JB

Gordon has a much higher ceiling than JB

Even Fromm has a higher ceiling than JB

 

I believe Herbert, Burrows, and Tua, would outplay JB, play one, day one in NFL

 

Thats why I am more open to a trade that brings one of these 3 to Indy

 

Love will need to sit for at least a year as would the others outside of the top 3

 

Thats why if we use the better than JB argument than there are options available in this draft

 

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I looked up what the Chiefs had to pay Buffalo to trade up and grab Mahomes. 

The Chiefs traded up from pick 27 in the first round to get pick 10. 

They gave up pick 27 and their 3rd round pick that year and also their first round pick the next year. 

If that is the price to move up 17 slots, the Colts shouldn't have to mortgage the future to move up in this year's first round. Say Carolina is your trade partner; that would mean the Colts would trade up from 13 to 7. The trade value chart, for what that is worth, says they would be slightly over paying if they traded the 13th and 44th pick for the 7th. I'd do that in a heartbeat if I believed we were looking at our future franchise QB. 

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3 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

 

 

 

 

That might be true, but think about it.  At that point, the Colts were in first place or were still in contention, looking at QBs who might be available in the 20s or the 2nd round.  Would Ballard also be willing to give up multiple picks and move up into the top 10 to get Love, if necessary?  

 

Love's highlights look great.  He was apparently good in practice, but every time I watch actual game action, I'm not quite as impressed.  If you watch play after play, it's pretty rough and awkward looking at times.  Taking him in the 20s or at 34 and burning picks to move up into the top 10 to get him are two different things.

 

Also, to the person who said Love would start as a rookie - Love didn't do well after a change in OCs, so I'm not sure how quick of a study he is or how quick he would be to adapt to a new system.

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12 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I would think he will sit a year. Anything can happen in TC. He could look really good and out perform Jacoby.  

If you move up get Love or any other qb I'd start them immediately. They can learn on the fly. A qb like Love or eason would force teams to back off opening up more lanes for mack 

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My opinion on Love has kind of changed for the worse, and not because of the Senior Bowl or anything. I’m getting kind of hung up on the, I guess bust potential, for lack of a better word.

 

Still like him, I think I’m just starting to realize how averse I am to taking big risks hah

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1 hour ago, Hoose said:

I looked up what the Chiefs had to pay Buffalo to trade up and grab Mahomes. 

The Chiefs traded up from pick 27 in the first round to get pick 10. 

They gave up pick 27 and their 3rd round pick that year and also their first round pick the next year. 

If that is the price to move up 17 slots, the Colts shouldn't have to mortgage the future to move up in this year's first round. Say Carolina is your trade partner; that would mean the Colts would trade up from 13 to 7. The trade value chart, for what that is worth, says they would be slightly over paying if they traded the 13th and 44th pick for the 7th. I'd do that in a heartbeat if I believed we were looking at our future franchise QB. 

The value chart kind of goes out the window when u r trading up into the top 10 or 5.  Teams know u r going after a qb and can charge u more.  I believe that if they moved up to say #7, they would b giving up next years #1 and then some.  Look what we charged the Jets and they only moved up 3 spots. Every one gave Ballard praise for that trade. Now he is the one who may have to pay up big time and let's see how Colt fans react when they see the total.  

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1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

My opinion on Love has kind of changed for the worse, and not because of the Senior Bowl or anything. I’m getting kind of hung up on the, I guess bust potential, for lack of a better word.

 

Still like him, I think I’m just starting to realize how averse I am to taking big risks hah

Everything I have read says he is a very hard worker. One story talked about him spending hours with the RB watching film. If he is that hard of a worker and proves to have a high football IQ I don’t see how he can be a bust with Reich. He is very self aware and knows he needs to balance the taking risks and not being stupid.  Apparently he wowed the dolphins in his interview. I would be happy with him or Herbert. Doesn’t really matter. We just need to try and see if we can get one of them if the colts think they can be the guy.

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1 hour ago, Stephen said:

If you move up get Love or any other qb I'd start them immediately. They can learn on the fly. A qb like Love or eason would force teams to back off opening up more lanes for mack 

I am  sold that Herbert would start day 1. Just not quite sure Love would be able to have success right away. He could though. Like you said with Mack and Loves arm it would open up so much. Just not sure if he needs to sit and learn how to read defenses. 

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To add to my points.  People have to remember that this is a big year for both Ballard and Reich. Say they move up and pick Love.  He doesn't work out and then u could b looking at big changes in the front office in say 2 years.   I could actually see them picking best player at 13 and trading back into the 1st round and grabbing a qb. I know people are on the Love train because Colts scouts were at his games. Mayb they were and have seen enough where he is not their guy.  The way they r trying to build this team, tons of assets on the O line, strong running game and a D based on speed and athleticism,  I just don't see them picking a guy like Love.  I see more of a guy like Fromm who they could get with probably a move back into the 1st. They want to run the ball, quick passing game and keep the D off the field because they r smaller on average. I just don't see Reich buying into the Love hype.  He is more traditional when it comes to a qb.  He wants accuracy as the key trait much like Bill Walsh. I could be totally wrong but that's the way I c it.

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18 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

To add to my points.  People have to remember that this is a big year for both Ballard and Reich. Say they move up and pick Love.  He doesn't work out and then u could b looking at big changes in the front office in say 2 years.   I could actually see them picking best player at 13 and trading back into the 1st round and grabbing a qb. I know people are on the Love train because Colts scouts were at his games. Mayb they were and have seen enough where he is not their guy.  The way they r trying to build this team, tons of assets on the O line, strong running game and a D based on speed and athleticism,  I just don't see them picking a guy like Love.  I see more of a guy like Fromm who they could get with probably a move back into the 1st. They want to run the ball, quick passing game and keep the D off the field because they r smaller on average. I just don't see Reich buying into the Love hype.  He is more traditional when it comes to a qb.  He wants accuracy as the key trait much like Bill Walsh. I could be totally wrong but that's the way I c it.

I'm more interested  in seeing if the Love scouting  is a smokescreen  for another qb, but there are 7 qbs I like. Two of them Gordon and Eason need more work than Love.

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8 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I'm more interested  in seeing if the Love scouting  is a smokescreen  for another qb, but there are 7 qbs I like. Two of them Gordon and Eason need more work than Love.

I believe the biggest concern with Fromm is the perceived lack of arm strength.  I think if he can show he has an arm that makes all the throws, he could b the guy.  All the other qbs have big question marks. It seems like it is either Herbert or Love on this board. Both have big question marks.  Herbert played in an offense in a college that does not translate well to the NFL.  He is supposedly a super smart guy and I believe has other interests outside of football.  Does this sound similar to another qb that played for the Colts?  I don't see the Colts going down the road. Most people see Love as Mahommes the sequel.  He's physically more talented than Brissett but appears to have the same issue of not progressing through his reads and locking on to a receiver. So let me get this straight. Most fans are willing to give up draft assets to get either draft Herbert or Love? Do they not   resemble Colt qbs who r currently and/ or who have played for the Colts? I am not a GM or claim to know a lot about college talent, but moving up for these 2 guys will be disastrous for the organization if it fails. Honestly,  I could see the Colts moving up a slot or two for a guy like Kinlaw than way up for say a  Love or Herbert.

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8 hours ago, HarryTheCat said:

The only statistics that count are "traditional statistics".  And what are those better metrics? Do you give him "style points" for heaving up a particularly nice spiral that gets picked? 


Well I was trying to be polite initially, but I guess I’m going to have to be frank.


I know your version of scouting consists of looking up a guy’s traditional stats on ESPN.com, whereas the rest of the collegiate and NFL world have moved on to PFF and PFO advanced analytics and grading.  
 

And I know you wouldn’t know the difference between good mechanics and bad mechanics if Peyton Manning sat you down and explained the difference for an hour.

 

But, these are merely 2 examples of scouting metrics that are more relevant than any traditional statistic.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Everything I have read says he is a very hard worker. One story talked about him spending hours with the RB watching film. If he is that hard of a worker and proves to have a high football IQ I don’t see how he can be a bust with Reich. He is very self aware and knows he needs to balance the taking risks and not being stupid.  Apparently he wowed the dolphins in his interview. I would be happy with him or Herbert. Doesn’t really matter. We just need to try and see if we can get one of them if the colts think they can be the guy.

 

Any player, especially a QB, can be a bust.

 

I’m not trying to align myself in any QB’s corner of this debate. I just think he’s probably the biggest boom or bust QB prospect.

 

I realize that there’s no sure thing though, and that you just have to scout and take a chance.

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9 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Any player, especially a QB, can be a bust.

 

I’m not trying to align myself in any QB’s corner of this debate. I just think he’s probably the biggest boom or bust QB prospect.

 

I realize that there’s no sure thing though, and that you just have to scout and take a chance.

Yeah I understand that. But if he has the work ethic and high football IQ I feel confident with Reich and this organization it will work out. We have a good organization.

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13 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

If someone is going to rely on traditional statistics (which aren't the best metric anyway), and that someone is going to hold that season against him (which is fair), then that same someone has to give him credit for his incredible '18 season, too.

 

 

No SOMEONE don’t...ha

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4 hours ago, zibby43 said:


Well I was trying to be polite initially, but I guess I’m going to have to be frank.


I know your version of scouting consists of looking up a guy’s traditional stats on ESPN.com, whereas the rest of the collegiate and NFL world have moved on to PFF and PFO advanced analytics and grading.  
 

And I know you wouldn’t know the difference between good mechanics and bad mechanics if Peyton Manning sat you down and explained the difference for an hour.

 

But, these are merely 2 examples of scouting metrics that are more relevant than any traditional statistic.

 

 

Mechanics are not "metrics".  But then, I wouldn't expect you to know the difference. 

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53 minutes ago, HarryTheCat said:

Mechanics are not "metrics".  But then, I wouldn't expect you to know the difference. 

 

If you actually know what you're talking about when evaluating QBs, they are.  Various aspects of mechanics have been broken down and quantified, so that there can be a science to evaluating and comparing various aspects of mechanics.

 

Example:

 

"The best metric for quarterbacks is load to arrival (LTA) because it is the best practical representation of their “arm strength,” but more importantly their mechanics. The event begins just after ball carriage, which occurs during drop back phase, and ends at the arrival at the target. There are 2 major paths that improve LTA; a level head and sequencing."

 

My initial intent was to have a civil conversation, until your flippant comment about "style points."  Was trying to share information on here.  All you've done is ended up being insulting and putting your own ignorance of modern evaluation techniques on display.

 

 

 

 

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I like Herbert, either or, but also you have the pre season to evaluate, so if the rookie QB outplays JB, I would start the rookie, no question.

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Was just thinking what iF Winston becomes a FA. Chargers could even go after him. Mariota is also a FA. So much can happen before the draft.

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Could see taking a chance on love 1st round if you get some D in free agency. Chris jones , byron jones , arik  armstead, etc

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14 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Any player, especially a QB, can be a bust.

 

I’m not trying to align myself in any QB’s corner of this debate. I just think he’s probably the biggest boom or bust QB prospect.

 

I realize that there’s no sure thing though, and that you just have to scout and take a chance.

To me being a boom or bust is kind of a plus for a QB, because the worst you can be is mediocre once that rookie contract comes to an end. I would prefer for whoever we draft to be either great or horrible and for us to know relatively quickly so we can either invest in him or move on quickly. This is part of the appeal with Love for me. The things he needs to improve are heavily coaching based and I think we will have a good idea of where on the spectrum he will end up pretty quickly. For example - if you draft him and he's not ready to start by year 2, this is a red flag and you might start looking for another one. If 2 off-seasons and 1 in-season period are not enough for your coaching staff to get him ready you either have made a mistake with the draft pick or with your coaching staff and I do have good trust in the coaching staff so... 

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A 60 year colts fan ! Living in Maryland n catching he'll year in year out. I've stuck. I can't believe CB/FR would make that huge of mistake. It would devastate us even at 13 pick. DT Brown/ Kinlaw/Espenza lamb/ Juedy Riggs best corner other too be had .In 2nd or third. 3 of best ever came 2ND one drafted 19 the rd. One taken in 6th. This just my opinion. We have the money n while u can't sign every free agent . I say go get best pass richer available and up n coming DT .you live in win in the trenches take care of that first for most.

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I am not going to debate if the Colts will draft Love, he's not my favorite but I trust in the Colts FO.  But Love did not look like a 1st round QB and I think there is some hype around the media wanting him to be the QB he looked like he could become in 2018.

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8 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I am not going to debate if the Colts will draft Love, he's not my favorite but I trust in the Colts FO.  But Love did not look like a 1st round QB and I think there is some hype around the media wanting him to be the QB he looked like he could become in 2018.

 

I think Mahomes being the flavor of the last 2 years has a lot to do with it than just Jordan Love himself. I still believed the 2018 draft was a better draft for QBs when Baker, Darnold, Allen, and Lamar Jackson went in the first round. If Jordan Love was in that draft, he'd have been drafted around where Lamar was, with someone moving back into Round 1.

 

If you are going to sit a QB though for 1 year, having that 5th year option becomes real important if he is rated close enough to Round 1. That is why I have been advocating best defensive player at No.13 followed by a move back into Round 1 (suggested Eagles spot) if Jordan Love drops. X-factor is Arians who loves big armed QBs drafting Love. Otherwise, draft Gordon at No.44 if you don't want to take the chance with a team like the Bears drafting him in Round 2 later than us or Detroit or Carolina in Round 3 earlier than us, IMO. Then ask him to bulk up and he should be ready after 1 year. 

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7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I think Mahomes being the flavor of the last 2 years has a lot to do with it than just Jordan Love himself. I still believed the 2018 draft was a better draft for QBs when Baker, Darnold, Allen, and Lamar Jackson went in the first round. If Jordan Love was in that draft, he'd have been drafted around where Lamar was, with someone moving back into Round 1.

I think you hit on a very important part here.  Fans (and I'm sure Gms) don't want to miss on the next Mahomes.  And it will cause a team to over value someone if they think they may be that person.

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

If you are going to sit a QB though for 1 year, having that 5th year option becomes real important if he is rated close enough to Round 1. That is why I have been advocating best defensive player at No.13 followed by a move back into Round 1 (suggested Eagles spot) if Jordan Love drops. X-factor is Arians who loves big armed QBs drafting Love. Otherwise, draft Gordon at No.44 if you don't want to take the chance with a team like the Bears drafting him in Round 2 later than us or Detroit or Carolina in Round 3 earlier than us, IMO. Then ask him to bulk up and he should be ready after 1 year. 

There is a risk of someone else drafting Love but the question is, is Love a QB the franchise cannot live without?  I don't know the answer to that question.

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On 1/25/2020 at 5:57 PM, HarryTheCat said:

I would rather endure another season of JB than invest a pick -- any pick -- in Love.  Come to think of it, I'd rather get a root canal every week, without anesthetic, than see Love under center for the Colts. 

Overstated but I agree based on his likely draft position.  His upside is high, so I might have to rank him above some other QBs like Gordon, but when considering the opportunity cost of the draft pick, I’d MUCH rather have Gordon in the 3rd than Love at #13.  I don’t EXPECT either QB to become a franchise QB, so I’d much rather use #13 on Kinlaw, Lamb, Austin Jackson, or someone else that fills a big need, and go into the 2020 TC with Brissett, Kelly, and Gordon (and Hoyer, lol) as our QB options...

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

I think Mahomes being the flavor of the last 2 years has a lot to do with it than just Jordan Love himself. I still believed the 2018 draft was a better draft for QBs when Baker, Darnold, Allen, and Lamar Jackson went in the first round. If Jordan Love was in that draft, he'd have been drafted around where Lamar was, with someone moving back into Round 1.

 

If you are going to sit a QB though for 1 year, having that 5th year option becomes real important if he is rated close enough to Round 1. That is why I have been advocating best defensive player at No.13 followed by a move back into Round 1 (suggested Eagles spot) if Jordan Love drops. X-factor is Arians who loves big armed QBs drafting Love. Otherwise, draft Gordon at No.44 if you don't want to take the chance with a team like the Bears drafting him in Round 2 later than us or Detroit or Carolina in Round 3 earlier than us, IMO. Then ask him to bulk up and he should be ready after 1 year. 

I disagree. Love is a better prospect than Josh Allen IMO. He has better accuracy, better touch, better pocket presence. Allen probably is a better runner and has stronger arm, but what's the point when he cannot hit anyone to save his life downfield.  And it's not like Love's arm is weak or he cannot move. Allen was extremely inaccurate this year downfield, just like he's been throughout his career. 

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On 1/25/2020 at 7:38 AM, MikeCurtis said:

I do

 

 

I don't think he has shown enough to go before 13 yet unless he goes to the Combine and lights it up don't see him in the top 10.

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If you want to take a DT at 13 and move back up just remember that is a risk. You have to have a trade partner. You don’t mess around with a QB you truly believe in. Just take him at 13 if he is there.  A QB is going to win you games when there might be weaknesses on the roster. A DT isn’t.

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1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

I don't think he has shown enough to go before 13 yet unless he goes to the Combine and lights it up don't see him in the top 10.

I fully believe after watching him play

 

He will do extremely well in 40 time, agility test, arm strength.... maybe best at Combine for QB


He is an incredible athlete

 

He seems to (or has been reported) to be an articulate, intelligent person

 

He should shine in the next round of observations

 

I think some of the teams will fall in love with the guy.... people that have better draft positions than Colts

 

IF he is there at 13..... And CB loves the guy... draft him.... there are worse choices

 

I LIKE Love at 13

I LOVE Kinlaw at 13

 

 

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IMO Love has shown high level traits and skill that are deserving of an early pick(maybe top 10). But he has also shown some weaknesses that might spell his doom in the long term if not addressed.

 

IMO a ton of Love's stock by draft day will depend on how he does in the meetings and interviews with GMs and coaches and how he does on the white board. And if he gets invited on visits, maybe how he interacts with potential teammates. Is he going to turn decisionmakers off like... for example Deshone Kizer seemed to, which lead to him dropping to the late second? Or is he going to win them over like a Mahomes or Josh Allen? 

 

The way his coach at Utah state talks about him and defends him, I can imagine him getting good reviews in the meetings and interviews, but who knows... I guess we will see in due time. 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

IMO Love has shown high level traits and skill that are deserving of an early pick(maybe top 10). But he has also shown some weaknesses that might spell his doom in the long term if not addressed.

 

I think from your comments As why I LIKE Love and not falling head over heels

 

AND why I would be highly reluctant to trade ANYTHING to move up and get him

 

I see substantially less holes in Herbert, Tua, and Burrows

 

IMHO, all 3 of these (still health question on Tua) SHOULD start day ONE and play well

 

Thats why Iam willing to trade up to get one of these 3

 

Love has Great potential...... but There is no way that He is ready, day one

 

 

 

 

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Well with the media thinking we are in on love means there is a 99.9 percent chance he isn't our guy .

Our staff is all about misdirection and not showing there hand .

 

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4 hours ago, coltsfan40 said:

A 60 year colts fan ! Living in Maryland n catching he'll year in year out. I've stuck. I can't believe CB/FR would make that huge of mistake. It would devastate us even at 13 pick. DT Brown/ Kinlaw/Espenza lamb/ Juedy Riggs best corner other too be had .In 2nd or third. 3 of best ever came 2ND one drafted 19 the rd. One taken in 6th. This just my opinion. We have the money n while u can't sign every free agent . I say go get best pass richer available and up n coming DT .you live in win in the trenches take care of that first for most.

 

Coltsfan40 ... So glad to meet you! A man after my own heart! I also am a long time Colts fan residing in lower Delaware all my life very close to the Maryland line. I also stuck as you put it. Your post was difficult to read but i loved it. I at first thought the Colts should do whatever was necessary to get one of the top QB's in this years draft. Thus, my thought was you can't win consistently without one and since we don't have one lets get on with finding one. Well, i've been thinking lately maybe what you say might be the beat approach. I mean, we do have needs on d-line and possibly o-line among other needs. Therefore, i think we should draft a QB 2nd round at the earliest. Let him sit and develop. My feelings, which is not popular, is unload JB and keep Hoyer and make Kelley the starter and see what happens in 2020. If he works out we have options and if he doesn't work out we still have options. I know this is not popular but i think this is the smartest thing Ballard and Co. could do at this time. Anyway, keep rooting on the Colts and i will be right there rooting with you. 

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27 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think from your comments As why I LIKE Love and not falling head over heels

 

AND why I would be highly reluctant to trade ANYTHING to move up and get him

 

I see substantially less holes in Herbert, Tua, and Burrows

 

IMHO, all 3 of these (still health question on Tua) SHOULD start day ONE and play well

 

Thats why Iam willing to trade up to get one of these 3

 

Love has Great potential...... but There is no way that He is ready, day one

 

This is reasonable. I think it's possible any of them doesn't start day 1. But Herbert, Tua and Burrow are more likely to be ready indeed. The reason I prefer Love over Herbert is because I don't put huge emphasis on the rookie year... for me it's much more important what they will be in the next 10-15 years than whether they will start year 1. Even if they start, chances are any rookie QB won't be great. 

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4 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is reasonable. I think it's possible any of them doesn't start day 1. But Herbert, Tua and Burrow are more likely to be ready indeed. 

There are a few things I gained from the Senior and some Juniors Bowl

 

Herbert is significantly better than I thought.......

 

My thoughts on Love and Gordon sort of stayed consistent as to my beliefs before the game

 

 

 

 

 

 

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