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WarGhost21

Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

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17 minutes ago, Myles said:

So the $4 million is only guaranteed if he is still on the roster in March?

Thanks for your explanation.  Like I said, I am far from an expert.  I usually just go with what is on Spotrac:

Brian Hoyer signed a 3 year, $12,000,000 contract with the Indianapolis Colts, including a $3,000,000 signing bonus, $9,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $4,000,000. In 2020, Hoyer will earn a base salary of $2,000,000 and a roster bonus of $2,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $5,000,000.

 

That's correct. A lot of the time the amount initially reported as "guaranteed" is not actually guaranteed at signing. Some of the guarantees are deferred. So based on the notes on the Spotrac page for Hoyer, his 2020 roster bonus and base salary are not guaranteed until March 2020.

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29 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

In that regard, many team sources apparently have Love graded as a 3rd-4th rounder. Nobody in this class is that great aside from Burrow, Herbert, and a healthy Tua. If we have to take one of them, I’d much rather do it in the 2nd or 3rd with a decent prospect than wait and hope they last until later. I still think we need to wait until 2021 for a QB in a better class, but right now we shouldn’t consider using the 13th on a QB unless it’s one of the three mentioned above


Id be curious as to reporters saying they have “sources” telling them that Love, or any other QBs, are rated as a 3rd or 4th round pick.   I’d be highly suspicious. 
 

Im fine if we draft someone this year,  and someone next year IF we have to.

 

Hey....   whatever happened to that Chad Kelly guy?      :thmup:

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This season will probably be the best JB we will see.  It's a contract year and he is playing for his next paycheck whether with the Colts or elsewhere.

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10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Id be curious as to reporters saying they have “sources” telling them that Love, or any other QBs, are rated as a 3rd or 4th round pick.   I’d be highly suspicious. 
 

Im fine if we draft someone this year,  and someone next year IF we have to.

 

Hey....   whatever happened to that Chad Kelly guy?      :thmup:

Yeah. IMO Love wouldn't have declared if he didn't get a round 1 evaluation from the committee. 

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From Walters football in order:




 

 1 - Joe Burrow*, QB, LSU
Height: 6-4. Weight: 216.
Projected 40 Time: 4.83.
Projected Round (2020): 1-2.
1/2/20: After surveying league sources after the injury to Tua Tagovailoa, the majority of sources voted for Burrow as the quarterback who will be the first one selected next April in the 2020 NFL Draft. This year, Burrow (6-4, 216) has been fantastic for LSU, completing 78 percent of his passes for 5,208 yards with 55 touchdowns and six interceptions. On the ground, he has 311 yards rushing and four touchdowns. Burrow has the ability to start in the NFL given his quality size, functional mobility, and above-average accuracy. The senior has been lights out this year and dominated the SEC en route to winning the Heisman Trophy.

In speaking to a few directors of college scouting for NFL teams, they felt that Burrow has looked good but has some limitations in arm strength for the next level. They based that off of watching Burrow in person this year in games and practice. They thought that he is an efficient game manager with prototypical size, but his arm talent is not elite. Because of the skill-set limitations, they see him as a prospect similar to Andy Dalton or Derek Carr. Some said they even had graded Burrow as a fourth-rounder at the beginning of this season, but with his incredible 2019, he has skyrocketed. Burrow has benefited greatly from a revamped scheme that has been superb for LSU. He also has a very good offensive line, a strong running game, and some dynamic early-round receiver prospects. Everything has gone right for Burrow and LSU in 2019.

8/15/19: Burrow flashed at times for LSU in 2018, showing some size and running ability. The Ohio State transfer completed 58 percent of his passes last season for 2,894 yards with 16 touchdowns and five interceptions. He ran for 399 yards and seven scores. Burrow needs to become more accurate and improve his pocket passing in 2019.

 

2 -  Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon
Height: 6-6. Weight: 225.
Projected 40 Time: 4.72.
Projected Round (2020): Top-10.
1/2/20: In 2019, Herbert completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,471 yards with 32 touchdowns and six interceptions. He scored four rushing touchdown too, but Oregon didn't run run him as much. The senior has all the physical tools to be a good NFL starter with a powerful arm, mobility and accuracy. When Herbert is given time, he is utterly deadly in his ability to carve up a defense. He is not a vocal leader, and some teams want their quarterback to be that kind of presence in the huddle, on the sideline, and in the locker room.

8/15/19: During the fall when teams were looking at the 2019 NFL Draft quarterback prospects, Herbert was said to have the best skill set and had the most positive buzz in the scouting community. Instead of declaring for the 2019 NFL Draft, however, he decided to return for his senior year.

In 2018, Herbert completed 59.4 percent of his passes for 3,151 yards with 29 touchdowns and eight interceptions. He only played in eight games during 2017, but completed 67 percent of his passes for 1,750 yards with 13 touchdowns and three interceptions. The sophomore also ran for five touchdowns. As a freshman, Herbert completed 64 percent of his passes for 1,936 yards with 19 touchdowns and four interceptions.

Herbert displays good size and a strong arm with the ability to loft in touch passes. He can drop in passes with nice ball placement that leads his receivers and beats quality coverage with the location of his passes. Given his height and size, Herbert can comfortably stand tall in the pocket and demonstrate the patience to let routes develop. Along with his arm talent, Herbert is a quality athlete who has the ability to pick up yards on the ground.

For the NFL, Herbert needs to improve in his field vision and at working through his progressions. His college offense often has him throwing to his first target or only focusing on one side of the field. Still, there is no doubt that Herbert has the skill set to start on Sundays and possesses plenty of upside to develop.


 

 3 - Tua Tagovailoa*, QB, Alabama
Height: 6-1. Weight: 218.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2020): Top-20.
1/2/20: Disaster struck for Tagovailoa and Alabama when he went out for the season due to a dislocated hip suffered against Mississippi State. His injury is rare and not common in football, but the medical prognosis is that Tagovailoa will make a full recovery and resume football activities in three months.

Earlier in the season, Tagovailoa suffered a high ankle sprain against Tennessee and had surgery the day after the injury. Given the hip injury on top of the injuries he had earlier this season and in 2018, there will be major medical and durability concerns for Tagovailoa in the leadup to the 2020 NFL Draft.

In 2019, Tagovailoa completed 71 percent of his passes for 2,840 yards with 33 touchdowns and three interceptions. He had two rushing touchdowns as well. Tagovailoa was superb, doing a tremendous job of getting the ball in the hands of his play-makers and making good decisions with impeccable ball security. All season, he threw the ball accurately, showing good field vision, anticipation and patience. He is an aggressive passer who challenges defenses downfield while throwing an accurate deep ball.

8/15/19: Tagovailoa has a quality arm that can make any throw required in the NFL. After his heroic effort to win the 2017 season's National Championship for Alabama, Tagovailoa was even better as a sophomore, completing 69 percent of his passes for 3,966 yards with 43 touchdowns and six interceptions. He also is a good athlete with some running ability, notching five rushing touchdowns in 2018. His mobility and athleticism allow him to buy time and escape sacks. There are also times that Tagovailoa shows an ability to scramble and make throws off platform to move the chains. Tagovailoa looks like a future NFL starter and probably will be a team's young franchise quarterback come training camp of 2020.

Tagovailoa is an aggressive passer who doesn't hesitate to challenge defenses downfield. He throws a very good deep ball, showing a quality arm and an ability to place his passes well downfield. He may not have an elite cannon, but his arm looks good enough. In the pocket, Tagovailoa shows patience and doesn't panic when his first read is covered. With presence and feel, Tagovailoa has the ability to function in a vertical passing offense.

Tagovailoa is a steady passer who generally has good accuracy. He does well for the most part on his short and intermediate passes to hit receivers on the run on slants and crossing routes.

Tagovailoa has some things he can seek to improve, and he definitely has upside to develop as he gains more experience in only his second season as a starter. There are plays on which he could pull the trigger a little faster and anticipate his receivers breaking open rather than waiting an extra second. In the NFL, he won't have as much time to throw as he does at Alabama. His footwork and mechanics could use some development, but he has a very good starting point for a quarterback entering the NFL. Tagovailoa is also left-handed, and his pro receivers will need time to adjust to him as the vast majority are used to a right-handed quarterbacks. Additionally, his offensive line is going to need a very good right tackle because he will be the blind-side protector for Tagovailoa.


 

 4 - Jake Fromm, QB, Georgia
Height: 6-2. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.79.
Projected Round (2020): 1-3.
1/2/20: In 2019, Fromm completed 60 percent of his passes for 2,860 yards with 24 touchdowns and five interceptions. He made some clutch throws to lead Georgia to a tough win over Notre Dame, but had four turnovers in a loss to South Carolina. Fromm bounced back to lead the Bulldogs to a win over Florida, being superb on third down. However, he has struggled since playing Florida, putting together ugly games with pass-completion rates of less than 50 percent against Missouri, Auburn, Texas A&M and LSU.

Fromm is a generally accurate quarterback who makes good decisions and is an efficient game manager. He is a gritty signal-caller who seems to play at his best in crunch time. However, he does not have a first-round skill set for the NFL, with his arm strength being average at best. He is a little shorter than ideal, and while he has some mobility, he won't be a running threat in the pros. Fromm may not have a first-round skill set, but he has great intangibles and is a winner, so a team could easily fall in love and make him a Thursday night selection in the 2020 NFL Draft.

8/15/19: Fromm completed 67 percent of his passes in 2018 for 2,749 yards with 30 touchdowns and six interceptions. Because of an injury, Fromm was pressed into the starting lineup as a freshman in 2017, but he led Georgia all the way to the National Championship that season. Fromm was an excellent game-manager, making some clutch throws while protecting the football to allow his potent rushing attack and superb defense to control games. On the year, Fromm completed 62.2 percent of his passes for 2,615 yards with 24 touchdowns and seven interceptions.

There is a lot to like about Fromm translating to the NFL. The important trait for any quarterback is accuracy, which Fromm has. He places his ball well, putting it in position for his receiver to make catches while avoiding putting the ball in danger. Fromm is a good decisiom-maker who protects the ball well and doesn't get careless or panic. He is a dangerous play-action passer who can come through with some clutch throws in crunch time.

Fromm is a confident, calm, poised, and efficient pocket passer. He stands tall in the pocket and is a consistent passer, distributing the ball to all levels of the defense. He shows good timing and precision to hit his receivers through windows in coverage while leading them to produce more yards after the catch. His calm and poised approach lends to him showing field vision in the pocket, as he will move his eyes and work off his primary read. For a young quarterback, Fromm had impressive field vision at the start of his time at Georgia. While he doesn't have a cannon, Fromm will challenge defenses vertically and isn't afraid to go downfield. With his rhythm and pocket passing, Fromm would be a good fit in a west coast offense.

 

 5 - Jacob Eason*, QB, Washington
Height: 6-6. Weight: 227.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2020): 2-3.
1/2/20: In 2019, Eason completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,132 yards with 23 touchdowns and eight interceptions. Eason has a powerful arm that can make all the throws and stretch a defense vertically. He can throw fastballs into tight windows that beat good coverage. Eason has quality field vision to work through progressions and stands tall in the pocket. He is accurate in the short to intermediate part of the field and is able to make some beautiful throws downfield.

With his limited experience, Eason is a bit raw and needs to show some growth in instincts. As a passer, he has some things to work on, including putting more air under the ball on some passes and throwing a softer, more catchable ball. That is a common issue with big-armed quarterbacks. He also needs to work on climbing the pocket as he has a bad habit of drifting backward. While Eason is not a running threat, he can move around some and his size makes him tough to get down. Eason is inconsistent and needs development. He should have returned to Washington for 2020, but Eason decided to enter the 2020 NFL Draft.

8/15/19: Eason sat out the 2018 season after transferring out of Georgia. He was injured in the 2017 season opener for Georgia, and Jake Fromm remained the starter for the rest of the season. The Bulldogs didn't want to change their winning formula once Eason was healthy, keeping Eason as the backup. After the 2017 season, Eason transferred to Washington.

I know some scouts who are high on Eason, so he definitely would have received serious consideration if he had entered the 2019 NFL Draft, for which he was eligible. Eason has excellent size and a quality arm with pocket-passing potential. At Georgia, he got good experience working in an offense under a respected coordinator with Jim Chaney that correlates more to the NFL than the vast majority of college offenses being used. Kirby Smart said one of the sad parts about Eason leaving Georgia was that his growth under Chaney wasn't seen nationally. Eason completed 55 percent of his passes in 2016 for 2,430 yards with 16 touchdowns and eight interceptions.


 

6 -  Jamie Newman*, QB, Wake Forest
Height: 6-4. Weight: 230.
Projected 40 Time: 4.65.
Projected Round (2020): 2-4.
1/2/20: Newman created a buzz in the scouting community this fall as a legit pro prospect for the NFL. He is a dual-threat quarterback with running and passing talent to challenge defenses. The 6-foot-4, 230-pounder has quality size with a live arm and athleticism. He is very improved as a passer and is showing a lot of upside to develop for the pro ranks. Some team sources think Newman would be a second-day pick if he enters the 2020 NFL Draft, but he should go back for his senior year rather than turn pro.

In 2019, Newman completed 61 percent of his passes for 2,868 yards with 26 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He also has six rushing touchdowns with 464 yards on the ground. In 2018, Newman completed 60 percent of his passes for 1,083 yards with nine touchdowns and four interceptions.


 

7 -  Kellen Mond*, QB, Texas A&M
Height: 6-4. Weight: 225.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2020): 2-4.
1/2/20: Mond had a mixed 219 season. There were ugly games against Clemson and LSU to bookend the year. He had mixed outings versus Auburn and Georgia, and then very good games against Alabama and Mississippi State that demonstrated significant improvement. Sources from a handful of teams all believe that Mond should return for his senior year to develop more under Jimbo Fisher before going pro.

In 2019, Mond completed 62 percent of his passes for 2,897 yards with 20 touchdowns and nine interceptions while running for 500 yards and eight touchdowns. He displayed improvement in his accuracy, foot work, decision-making, and composure during the course of the season, but he still has a ways to go for the NFL.

Evaluators like Mond's his size, arm and athleticism. He needs to continue to improve his accuracy, but he has gotten better under Jimbo Fisher. In 2018, Mond completed 57 percent of his passes for 3,107 yards with 24 touchdowns versus nine interceptions. Sources say Mond is interested in leaving school early.

 

8 -  Steven Montez, QB, Colorado
Height: 6-5. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2020): 2-4.
1/2/20: Some team sources felt that Montez had a chance to develop into a special quarterback prospect as he has a good skill set with size and a strong arm, but they now think something is missing with Montez, who is too streaky and inconsistent.

Montez had an ugly first half against Nebraska, getting shut out for two and half quarters. He then caught fire to lead a massive comeback and beat the Cornhuskers 34-31 in overtime. Following that win, Montez led a tough road victory over Arizona State and had ugly games against Oregon and Washington State.

Montez has terrible footwork that hurts his accuracy, bad decision-making, and is vulnerable to losing his composure. In 2019, he completed 63 percent of his passes this season for 2,808 yards with 17 touchdowns and 10 interceptions.

8/15/19: Montez has good size to him and flashes at times, but NFL sources said he is all over the place and needs improvement. As a junior, he completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,849 yards with 19 touchdowns and nine interceptions. In 2017, he completed 61 percent of his passes for 2,975 yards with 18 touchdowns and nine interceptions. Montez needs to improve his accuracy and consistency.


 

9 -  Jordan Love, QB, Utah State
Height: 6-4. Weight: 225.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2020): 3-5.
1/2/20: In 2019, Love completed 62 percent of his passes for 3,402 yards with 20 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. He had some buzz about being a pro prospect coming off his 2018 season, when he completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,567 yards with 32 touchdowns and six interceptions.

As a pro prospect, Love has some good tools to work with. He has a strong arm and can fire some lasers downfield and to the sideline. He also shows the ability to put air under the ball and throw touch passes. Lofting in passes between defenders and throwing receivers open can be tough for strong-armed quarterbacks as they can become too reliant on fast balls. Love does not have that issue. His pocket presence is developed, and he has some mobility to move around as well.

However, Love still has a lot to work on, with his field vision being painfully bad. He consistently locks his eyes on his primary read and does not move them away. He stares down targets and does not look off defenders. Love must start reading the field, working through his progressions, and making better decisions. Team sources felt that Love should have returned for his senior year to improve before going to the NFL, but he declared for the 2020 NFL Draft. One team source said they had a fourth-/fifth-round grade on Love.


 

10 -  James Morgan, QB, Florida International
Height: 6-4. Weight: 213.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2020): 4-6.
1/2/20: In 2019, Morgan connected on 58 percent of his passes for 2,560 yards with 14 touchdowns and five interceptions. Team sources say that Morgan should get drafted on Day 3 due to his pro skill set, but he is rising and has a buzz in the scouting community. Morgan has quality size, a good arm, and is adept at avoiding turnovers, throwing only 12 interceptions over the past two seasons.

8/15/19: In 2018, Morgan completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,727 yards with 26 touchdowns and seven interceptions. It was a huge improvement over his 2017 and 2016 seasons. Morgan made NFL teams' preseason watch lists for 2019.

 

11 -  K.J. Costello, QB, Stanford
Height: 6-5. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2020): 3-5.
1/2/20: In 2019, Costello completed 61 percent of his passes for 1,038 yards with six touchdowns and three interceptions. Costello only played the first half against Northwestern, going down with a head injury just before halftime. He finished having completed 16-of-20 passes for 152 yards and a touchdown against the Wildcats. Costello returned after missing Week 2 and struggled against Central Florida and Oregon. He missed the majority of Stanford's games in 2019 and stopped playing in early November.

8/15/19: Costello has quality size to him with a nice arm and has experience operating in a pro-style offense. He really improved in 2018, his second year of extensive playing time, completing 65.1 percent of his passes for 3,540 yards with 29 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He completed 59 percent of his passes in 2017 for 1,573 yards with 14 touchdowns and four interceptions. There are definitely some strengths for Costello as it relates to translating to the NFL. He has good size with a decent arm and pocket presence. Costello stands tall in the face of a rush using pocket presence to hang tough with defenders closing around him. Costello flashes some accuracy throwing into coverage, tossing some well-located passes that allow his receivers to make catches even when they are closely covered. Costello also displays a pretty good understanding of where his receivers are and executing the offense.

There definitely are areas for improvement that he needs to work on for the NFL. Costello definitely has to quicken his passing process. He needs to get faster at reading the defense, working through his progressions, and getting ball out. There are times when he is too slow to pull the trigger, which allows the defense to close on the backend. Costello has to improve his field vision to work through his reads.

From a mechanics perspective, Costello can be a bit mechanical and could stand to improve his release. He can get long at times and could stand to get more compact and quicker. His feet also can get out of whack, and improving his feet would allow him to be more accurate with his ball location. While he will use his feet to buy some time or pick up yards on the ground, he is not a running threat for the NFL. He will have to succeed as a pure pocket passer to make it at the next level. He will never be a quarterback who is a real threat to buy a lot of time with his feet, dodge pass rushers, or pick up yards on the ground.


 

12 -  Nate Stanley, QB, Iowa
Height: 6-4. Weight: 242.
Projected 40 Time: 4.88.
Projected Round (2020): 4-6.
1/2/20: Stanley completed 59 percent of his passes in 2019 for 2,951 yards with 16 touchdowns and seven interceptions. He looks more like a backup quarterback in the NFL.

8/15/19: Stanley completed 59 percent of his passes in 2018 for 2,852 yards with 26 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. He has good size and experience in a pro-style system, but he needs work on his consistency. Stanley was wise to return for his senior year. As a sophomore in 2017, Stanley completed 56 percent of his passes for 2,437 yards with 26 touchdowns and six interceptions.


 

13 -  Khalil Tate, QB, Arizona
Height: 6-2. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.49.
Projected Round (2020): 4-6.
1/2/20: Tate helped himself over the fall and hads earned draft-able grades from area scouts. Team sources say Tate has a good skill set with a strong arm, mobility and athleticism, plus is a fast runner. Tate completed 60 percent of his passes in 2019 for 1,954 yards with 14 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He ran for 413 yards and three touchdowns as well.

In 2018, Tate completed 56 percent of his passes for 2,530 yards with 26 touchdowns and eight interceptions. As a sophomore, he ran for 1,411 yards with 12 touchdowns while completing 62 percent of his passes for 1,591 yards with 14 touchdowns and nine interceptions.

There are a number of issues that push Tate into being more of a third-day pick. Sources say he has issues with accuracy, seeing the field, is shorter than they like, and could struggle with mastering a NFL playbook. He has minor character and makeup concerns as well, but teams feel Hill has some unique qualities that could get him drafted on Day 3 during the 2020 NFL Draft.

 

 14 - Sam Ehlinger*, QB, Texas
Height: 6-3. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.79.
Projected Round (2020): 4-6.
1/2/20: In 2019, Ehlinger completed 65 percent of his passes for 3,663 yards with 32 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. He is more of a running quarterback and has drawn some comparisons to Tim Tebow for his style of play. Ehlinger should definitely return for his senior year to improve before going pro.

8/15/19: Ehlinger was much improved in 2018, displaying more skills as a pocket passer and improved accuracy. He competed 65 percent of his passes on the year for 3,292 yards with 25 touchdowns and five interceptions. That was a big jump from the previous year with 58 percent completed for 1,915 yards with 11 touchdowns and seven interceptions.

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22 minutes ago, Myles said:

 

From Walters football in order:

I'm not Walter football's biggest fan... 

 

Here's Dane Brugler's QB ranking:

Quote

 

Quarterbacks

1. Joe Burrow, LSU (6-3, 212, 4.84)
2. *Tua Tagovailoa, Alabama (6-0, 219, 4.78)
3. Jordan Love, Utah State (6-3, 224, 4.68)
With only 17 touchdowns compared to 16 interceptions, Love doesn’t have the production indicative of a first-round pick. But NFL teams draft traits, not stats, and the Utah State product has an intriguing skill set with his loose arm talent and downfield touch. Love will receive his undergraduate degree this month and a Senior Bowl invite will follow. His final draft grade will be heavily dependent on his draft process.

4. Justin Herbert, Oregon (6-6, 240, 4.68)
5. *Jacob Eason, Washington (6-6, 230, 5.06)
6. *Jake Fromm, Georgia (6-1, 221, 4.78)
7. Anthony Gordon, Washington State (6-2, 211, 4.81)
8. Jalen Hurts, Oklahoma (6-1, 223, 4.61)
9. *K.J. Costello, Stanford (6-5, 217, 4.94)
10. Nate Stanley, Iowa (6-4, 245, 4.89)

 

 

 

 

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This was the scariest thing I've read on Love:

 

However, Love still has a lot to work on, with his field vision being painfully bad. He consistently locks his eyes on his primary read and does not move them away. He stares down targets and does not look off defenders. Love must start reading the field, working through his progressions, and making better decisions.

 

But I'll be honest, I haven't watched him play much (maybe once), so I can't say 1 way or another.

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59 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Id be curious as to reporters saying they have “sources” telling them that Love, or any other QBs, are rated as a 3rd or 4th round pick.   I’d be highly suspicious. 
 

Im fine if we draft someone this year,  and someone next year IF we have to.

 

Hey....   whatever happened to that Chad Kelly guy?      :thmup:

I will say that Todd McShay has Love rated as a Round 2-3 guy.

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7 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I will say that Todd McShay has Love rated as a Round 2-3 guy.

Yes...   roughly a mid to late second round guy.    But he’s an evaluator that’s works for ESPN.

 

A leak by a source from the team at this time of year to me is a smoke screen.   Something designed to throw other teams off track.   Teams don’t leak out the truth this time of Year.  Why would you give out your own gold for nothing?   What would a team gain by leaking out the truth?  So they leak out lies and misinformation.  
 

It’s not called the silly season for nothing! 

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2 hours ago, MPStack said:


I think Kelly’s problems were mostly immaturity issues. He managed to stay out of trouble the past year, but I seriously doubt Ballard is going to put his job on the line with Kelly. Kelly’s done nothing for anyone to assume he’s the future.

 

With that being said, were now talking year 4 coming up for Ballard. His decision making process is more important moving forward with Luck’s retirement. His margin for error is smaller and his job will depend on how successful the Colts are. Rolling with Kelly could get him fired quick. 

 

I think this is part of the problem ... Ballard doesn't like the risk that comes with Kelly.  But, unfortunately he has probably also seen the skills and potential ceiling of CK.  So while he doesn't like the risk associated with starting CK, he also doesn't like the risk of releasing him and risking the chance he goes somewhere and lights it up while he's trotting out JB as the Colts QB for another year.  The fans would be near revolt if he starts JB and CK goes somewhere else and becomes a good QB.

 

Assuming Carr or some other quality vet comes doesn't somehow come free I believe his best option out of this QB mess, and that best covers himself is to draft QB early (1st pick or trading back into 1st ideally; not 3rd/4th rnd), and have a REAL open competition at camp JB, CK, and the rookie. If JB wins we get the joy of JB starting until the rookie is ready. If CK wins and the rookie didn't beat JB out (although I think there's a real chance JB could lose out to both CK and a rookie) he can always put JB back at back up/insurance and carry 3 QBs if he still has some concerns. 

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4 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

In that regard, many team sources apparently have Love graded as a 3rd-4th rounder. Nobody in this class is that great aside from Burrow, Herbert, and a healthy Tua. If we have to take one of them, I’d much rather do it in the 2nd or 3rd with a decent prospect than wait and hope they last until later. I still think we need to wait until 2021 for a QB in a better class, but right now we shouldn’t consider using the 13th on a QB unless it’s one of the three mentioned above

care to share the many sources?

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10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

care to share the many sources?

Per Walter Football:

Quote

Team sources felt that Love should have returned for his senior year to improve before going to the NFL, but he declared for the 2020 NFL Draft. One team source said they had a fourth-/fifth-round grade on Love.

 

Link: 

https://walterfootball.com/draft2020QB.php

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10 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Per Walter Football:

 

Link: 

https://walterfootball.com/draft2020QB.php

 

 

Quote

1/2/20: In 2019, Love completed 62 percent of his passes for 3,402 yards with 20 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. He had some buzz about being a pro prospect coming off his 2018 season, when he completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,567 yards with 32 touchdowns and six interceptions.

As a pro prospect, Love has some good tools to work with. He has a strong arm and can fire some lasers downfield and to the sideline. He also shows the ability to put air under the ball and throw touch passes. Lofting in passes between defenders and throwing receivers open can be tough for strong-armed quarterbacks as they can become too reliant on fast balls. Love does not have that issue. His pocket presence is developed, and he has some mobility to move around as well.

However, Love still has a lot to work on, with his field vision being painfully bad. He consistently locks his eyes on his primary read and does not move them away. He stares down targets and does not look off defenders. Love must start reading the field, working through his progressions, and making better decisions. Team sources felt that Love should have returned for his senior year to improve before going to the NFL, but he declared for the 2020 NFL Draft. One team source said they had a fourth-/fifth-round grade on Love.

 

So I included the entire write up above. It's a little headscratching to me that they don't mention either. 

 

1) Utah St only returned 1.5 starters in 2019, and the coaching staff was brand new. The only starters that returned were Love himself, and an OT that only started about half the season IIRC. So at minimum he lost 4 of 5 OL, his top 4 pass catchers, and RB. Also had new head and position coaches calling things differently.

2) Love's best receiver in 2019 was a grad transfer whom he no chemistry with prior to the season.

 

Not saying Love is stud or the second coming, but to not mention those things is concerning. I'd also call into question "team sources". What team, and what position. A team seriously looking for a QB, a source who is low level scout, etc.. ??. I'd add that the only alternative he was considering was grad-transferring himself back to his old coach at TT. If he'd had done that, he'd have a whole new cast of characters to get used to again. 

 

Anyway, his reviews coming off 2018 actually complimented him on his vision lol... I think it's perhaps understandable that he might stare down some guys, when all his guys are new, his OL is not nearly as good, his D is significantly worse, his leading guy is a grad transfer coming into a new team and scheme, and he's asked to play hero ball almost all year.

 

I take Walter write ups (and most others) with a grain of salt. They do a decent job on a ton of kids, but not a great job overall. I've read most write ups on Love (and others) and I wouldn't class this as "many" team sources. I'd also predict that a lot of NFL teams disagree, and that he ends up going somewhere between 11 and 45. Perhaps higher after the SR Bowl and combine.

 

 

 

 

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To the OP. 

 

I think the jury is still out comment is about as bad as bad can be without saying we are moving on. And saying we are moving on is not something you're going to hear given the QB room at this time, contract situation, and timing (pre draft, and pre FA). That mixed with CB's other comments about the contract and other, tells me things are wide open.

 

I'd bet they are looking at many scenarios. A few FAs (both potential perm and mentor type), and several in the draft. Bringing in a guy like Carr or Rivers would mean JB isn't likely starting at all in 2020. They are not going to pay those guys to sit.

 

I also don't think bringing in a drafted guy (13th, 34th, or even 45th) necessarily means JB starts day one either. The Colts have a great foundation and support structure for a new young QB. Top 5 line, top 10 rushing, etc.. JB struggles with too many things Reich's O requires (quick hits, occasional deep shots, pre snap reads, progression). Even a young guy might perform better in a few of those areas. If we were still in a Chud O, I might agree, but we're trying to run a very different O.

 

Going to be an interesting off season.

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9 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

So, as many know by now the quote that is getting the most attention from Ballards press conference, outside of Ebron’s( LoL), was that the jury is still out on Jacoby Brissett. 
 

I have been reading numerous articles and listening to numerous podcast about the press conference:

 

Kevin Bowen’s Kevin’s Corner

Stampede Blue

Stampede Blue Afternoon Pancakes

 

What I have come away with us that most believe that Ballard will he actively looking for an upgrade at QB (like they always do for every positions). 
 

The consensus that I got is the JB will be the starter in 2020.
 

They might bring in a FA to push him and they will probably take a QB later in the draft to develop.

 

They feel that it is way more likely that Hoyer is gone and that JB will not be going anywhere. 

 

They feel that the comment “The Jury is Still out” means his evaluation is not complete. He has earned the right to start. If they bring in FA QB or Draft a QB they will compete with him and if JB loses, he had his chance. 
 

It seems that Ballard might just hedge his bets and bring in a better backup in Hoyers place and draft a developmental guy in round 2. 
 

What are your thoughts on this?  Again I am basing this off of numerous Colts podcast and articles. 

 

Emotions aside,  its the logical plan at this time.  Things could change but it makes the most sense to me.

ALL options are currently open.

we have good draft capital AND good cap $.  We are in a good position if the right opportunity for the RIGHT player presents itself.

 

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6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

This a thousand times?????   WTH??

 

You want to use a second pick on Day 3 QB talent?    Congratulations!

 

What I’m reading is Gordon and Hurts are Day 3 draft picks.  That’s R4 or later. 

I'm been watching a lot of Gordon, he will not be a day 3 pick.  And he is the one I was thinking about when I said drafted earlier that many experts predict they will go.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

 

So I included the entire write up above. It's a little headscratching to me that they don't mention either. 

 

1) Utah St only returned 1.5 starters in 2019, and the coaching staff was brand new. The only starters that returned were Love himself, and an OT that only started about half the season IIRC. So at minimum he lost 4 of 5 OL, his top 4 pass catchers, and RB. Also had new head and position coaches calling things differently.

2) Love's best receiver in 2019 was a grad transfer whom he no chemistry with prior to the season.

 

Not saying Love is stud or the second coming, but to not mention those things is concerning. I'd also call into question "team sources". What team, and what position. A team seriously looking for a QB, a source who is low level scout, etc.. ??. I'd add that the only alternative he was considering was grad-transferring himself back to his old coach at TT. If he'd had done that, he'd have a whole new cast of characters to get used to again. 

 

Anyway, his reviews coming off 2018 actually complimented him on his vision lol... I think it's perhaps understandable that he might stare down some guys, when all his guys are new, his OL is not nearly as good, his D is significantly worse, his leading guy is a grad transfer coming into a new team and scheme, and he's asked to play hero ball almost all year.

 

I take Walter write ups (and most others) with a grain of salt. They do a decent job on a ton of kids, but not a great job overall. I've read most write ups on Love (and others) and I wouldn't class this as "many" team sources. I'd also predict that a lot of NFL teams disagree, and that he ends up going somewhere between 11 and 45. Perhaps higher after the SR Bowl and combine.

I agree, Walter isn’t always the most reliable source. However, compared to most casual fans, they actually do have sources, regardless of level. It’s difficult to predict everything, though, so who really knows

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

To the OP. 

 

I think the jury is still out comment is about as bad as bad can be without saying we are moving on. And saying we are moving on is not something you're going to hear given the QB room at this time, contract situation, and timing (pre draft, and pre FA). That mixed with CB's other comments about the contract and other, tells me things are wide open.

 

I'd bet they are looking at many scenarios. A few FAs (both potential perm and mentor type), and several in the draft. Bringing in a guy like Carr or Rivers would mean JB isn't likely starting at all in 2020. They are not going to pay those guys to sit.

 

I also don't think bringing in a drafted guy (13th, 34th, or even 45th) necessarily means JB starts day one either. The Colts have a great foundation and support structure for a new young QB. Top 5 line, top 10 rushing, etc.. JB struggles with too many things Reich's O requires (quick hits, occasional deep shots, pre snap reads, progression). Even a young guy might perform better in a few of those areas. If we were still in a Chud O, I might agree, but we're trying to run a very different O.

 

Going to be an interesting off season.

Overall post reflects my feeling exactly.  Not that Ballard needed any help to see this, but I think Irsay might not like what he sees in JB and has/will urge Ballard to do what is short of unreasonable to start someone else besides JB next year.  Having said that, I don't think it will be Dalton, Rivers, Cam, or even Eli; should all of them be available.

 

To the bolded, this is accurate also, IMO.  Reich's offense is not necessarily a deep ball O as much as it is a quick hitting accuracy O, as opposed to the Chud/Arians O that we moved on from.  If we can't get a QB that is elite in everything, traits need to reflect the priorities of the O.

 

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I have listened to Ballard talk, and it was my belief....that teams don't necessarily put players on their board in hard numbers, but it groups. I'm guessing on the numbers as it changes every year. One year it could be 4 players in the elite category, and 11 the next year. 

 

1-6 or 10? Elite hard to miss prospects

10-24ish? Great players with at least one or two coachable holes in their game

24-50ish? and so it goes......

 

So IF a QB is available when we pick, and it is a great value at that slot, then that might be the selection by Ballard. It will very likely NOT be because he has to take a QB high in this draft. However, if the Colts take a QB with the first or second pick, the "I told you so's" will be out in full force, even though it will have been a value pick. In the end, I trust our staff to make the right choice, and if they do not make the choice I perceived as correct, I will not berate them here. 

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm been watching a lot of Gordon, he will not be a day 3 pick.  And he is the one I was thinking about when I said drafted earlier that many experts predict they will go.

To be clear....   when I say things like that in early January, I’m always allowing that evaluations can change.

 

— All-Star games in January.

 

— The combine in Feb/March.

 

—The pro days in March/ April.

 

Evaluations could clearly change after all that.   I’m only talking what I’m reading currently.   And it’s subject to change.

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24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

To be clear....   when I say things like that in early January, I’m always allowing that evaluations can change.

 

— All-Star games in January.

 

— The combine in Feb/March.

 

—The pro days in March/ April.

 

Evaluations could clearly change after all that.   I’m only talking what I’m reading currently.   And it’s subject to change.

I know, I'm just giving you my evaluation.  I got clued into Gordon about week 5 of the college season, so I've been studying/watching him ever since.  IMO he is the best pure passer in the draft this year.  One of his best attributes is he seems to have an excellent feel for not only where his receiver will be, but also where the defenders will be when his ball gets there and he places the ball accordingly.

 

The thing with him is, he was behind Minshew last year so he was not on any preseason radar but I think as scouts and GMs start looking at his game tapes and see his throwing motion he is going to move into the 2nd/3rd round.  I don't think he will get considered much further because he's a) a one year QB b) very skinny (6'4 210lbs) and c) plays for a type of offense that leads to inflated numbers.

 

His coach says he could give NFL veterans on clinic on proper form and throwing motion... I don't know if that's true or if his coach is building him up for the NFL, but I do know it results in him making all the throws and able to zip it in there when it needs to be, able to take some off when that's required and able to throw it deep with great accuracy.  But, IMO he thrives in that 8-18 yard range.

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm been watching a lot of Gordon, he will not be a day 3 pick.  And he is the one I was thinking about when I said drafted earlier that many experts predict they will go.

Gordon IMO will go R2 or 3 at worst. Sure he's a Leach system guy, but 5500+ yards, 48 TDs, 70+ completion %, 78+QBR, 155+ Rating, good size and arm strength, etc. is hard to ignore. I could see him doing very well at the SR Bowl and Combine, and even working his way into the 1st. 

 

That's 750 yards better than Minshew, 10 more TDs, and better QBR and Rating.... And better size.

Minshew was a bargain in the 6th. I actually posted last year that I'd love to grab him in the 5th or 6th if available.

 

Still have a lot more to review in terms of QBs, but my latest stack is 

 

1. Burrow

2. Herbert

3. Tua

4. Love

5. Eason

6. Gordon

 

I'd say also that Tua is dropping more and more for me. The injury history is just to risky.

I'm almost in the place where I'd rather have any of the guys above over him.

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21 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I know, I'm just giving you my evaluation.  I got clued into Gordon about week 5 of the college season, so I've been studying/watching him ever since.  IMO he is the best pure passer in the draft this year.  One of his best attributes is he seems to have an excellent feel for not only where his receiver will be, but also where the defenders will be when his ball gets there and he places the ball accordingly.

 

The thing with him is, he was behind Minshew last year so he was not on any preseason radar but I think as scouts and GMs start looking at his game tapes and see his throwing motion he is going to move into the 2nd/3rd round.  I don't think he will get considered much further because he's a) a one year QB b) very skinny (6'4 210lbs) and c) plays for a type of offense that leads to inflated numbers.

 

His coach says he could give NFL veterans on clinic on proper form and throwing motion... I don't know if that's true or if his coach is building him up for the NFL, but I do know it results in him making all the throws and able to zip it in there when it needs to be, able to take some off when that's required and able to throw it deep with great accuracy.  But, IMO he thrives in that 8-18 yard range.

Thanks for this post   Appreciate it.

 

Among the negatives Gordon has to overcome,  is that the the scouting community views Mike Leech offenses as one that make quarterbacks look better than they are.  But once they’re in the NFL they don’t translate to the next level all that well.  I’ve been reading that critique for years.

 

I suspect Gordon is going to need a great next four months to move the needle.   Your excellent write up hopefully is a sign Gordon may be different than other Leech-QBs in the past. 
 

Thanks again....

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10 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Here is my take on things.

 

One, I think a lot of people are misreading the last question from his press conference, they asked if JB was the starter next year and his response was, well last year at this time I would have said Luck was the starter, so for right now JB is the starter next year.  Clearly that means things change and that decision will be made after evaluating the changes.

 

Colts FO/Coaches will break down all JBs film from the season and determine if they think the passing game issues can be coached or if there is some other issue.

 

Colts will release Hoyer before the 2020 season officially starts in March

 

Colts will draft a QB, they will probably take someone sooner than the draft experts (both national and the self proclaimed ones on this forum)

 

There will be an open competition in Camp between JB, Kelly and the draft pick.  Winner, probably JB, will starter week 1.  If they get the QB they want in the draft then I see him being worked into the starting position after about week 8.

Colts either start Chad Kelly or Anthony Gordon or fans stay home to see what they do the following year. Get alot done at home on Sundays!

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks for this post   Appreciate it.

 

Among the negatives Gordon has to overcome,  is that the the scouting community views Mike Leech offenses as one that make quarterbacks look better than they are.  But once they’re in the NFL they don’t translate to the next level all that well.  I’ve been reading that critique for years.

 

I suspect Gordon is going to need a great next four months to move the needle.   Your excellent write up hopefully is a sign Gordon may be different than other Leech-QBs in the past. 
 

Thanks again....

Yeah, I've read the criticism of the coaches offense and it's understandable to a point.  I think Gordon has a better arm than Falk and a better head than Minshew.

 

I don't think he will come in set the world on fire as a rookie (I wouldn't' be shocked if he did but I would be surprised).  But I think if he gets a year to learn the NFL game, he will be very good.

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12 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Yeah, I've read the criticism of the coaches offense and it's understandable to a point.  I think Gordon has a better arm than Falk and a better head than Minshew.

 

I don't think he will come in set the world on fire as a rookie (I wouldn't' be shocked if he did but I would be surprised).  But I think if he gets a year to learn the NFL game, he will be very good.


I’ve always been a big fan of giving most college quarterbacks a redshirt year.   I think it’s almost always very helpful.

 

If not a full season, then certainly as much time as they can get observing and learning in practice...   in meeting rooms...   in locker rooms...   and on game day.   Anything to get the actual game day experience to slow down at least a little.   As you know, the NFL game is so much bigger and especially so much faster, as well as much more highly skilled  than the college game.   It’s night and day.   Kids need time. 

It’s the hardest position to play in team sports. 
 

I’m happy to grab someone Day 2 and let them learn.   If Brissett improves enough, great.   And if not, we move on with the new kid. 

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2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm been watching a lot of Gordon, he will not be a day 3 pick.  And he is the one I was thinking about when I said drafted earlier that many experts predict they will go.

Im on board the Gordon train with you. I watched his tape, kids got a cannon. Throws the best ball out of all of the QBs coming out. Does it in tight windows, at all depths, and has great touch. His zip is comparable to Maholmes. 1st in the nation in yards and 2nd in TDs, he is just being ovelooked for his conference and oppenents. If your a fan thinking we should draft a guy watch the tape on Anothony Gordon. He's gonna light it up somewhere...

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Look folks, we aren't drafting high enough to get a good QB talent this year.  Looks like Biscuit will be our starter going into next season (and I'm not satisfied with him being the potential starter).  I would like to see Kelly get a legitimate shot to supplant Jacoby.  If Kelly can't, let the chips fall where they will, maybe Hoyer will excel.  But, the Colts cannot afford to spend money or waste a pick on a QB.  IMO, the money first needs to go on the defensive side of the ball (secondary, pass rusher).  After which, we need to upgrade our skilled position players.  Whatever happens, Biscuit will be a stop gap.

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8 hours ago, P'Son said:

Look folks, we aren't drafting high enough to get a good QB talent this year.  Looks like Biscuit will be our starter going into next season (and I'm not satisfied with him being the potential starter).  I would like to see Kelly get a legitimate shot to supplant Jacoby.  If Kelly can't, let the chips fall where they will, maybe Hoyer will excel.  But, the Colts cannot afford to spend money or waste a pick on a QB.  IMO, the money first needs to go on the defensive side of the ball (secondary, pass rusher).  After which, we need to upgrade our skilled position players.  Whatever happens, Biscuit will be a stop gap.

Kelly can.

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22 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

So, as many know by now the quote that is getting the most attention from Ballards press conference, outside of Ebron’s( LoL), was that the jury is still out on Jacoby Brissett. 
 

I have been reading numerous articles and listening to numerous podcast about the press conference:

 

Kevin Bowen’s Kevin’s Corner

Stampede Blue

Stampede Blue Afternoon Pancakes

 

What I have come away with us that most believe that Ballard will he actively looking for an upgrade at QB (like they always do for every positions). 
 

The consensus that I got is the JB will be the starter in 2020.
 

They might bring in a FA to push him and they will probably take a QB later in the draft to develop.

 

They feel that it is way more likely that Hoyer is gone and that JB will not be going anywhere. 

 

They feel that the comment “The Jury is Still out” means his evaluation is not complete. He has earned the right to start. If they bring in FA QB or Draft a QB they will compete with him and if JB loses, he had his chance. 
 

It seems that Ballard might just hedge his bets and bring in a better backup in Hoyers place and draft a developmental guy in round 2. 
 

What are your thoughts on this?  Again I am basing this off of numerous Colts podcast and articles. 

 

I think you have captured to essence of our current state of affairs.

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8 hours ago, P'Son said:

Look folks, we aren't drafting high enough to get a good QB talent this year.

we never will be.  we will have to take a risk on a prospect at some point

 

the sooner we do it the sooner we can develop somone like love

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18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yes...   roughly a mid to late second round guy.    But he’s an evaluator that’s works for ESPN.

 

A leak by a source from the team at this time of year to me is a smoke screen.   Something designed to throw other teams off track.   Teams don’t leak out the truth this time of Year.  Why would you give out your own gold for nothing?   What would a team gain by leaking out the truth?  So they leak out lies and misinformation.  
 

It’s not called the silly season for nothing! 

This is something I can't figure out with some of those network evaluators. Are they putting out rankings based on their personal opinions or based on what they hear from teams? Both are valuable in certain ways, but fundamentally different ways. 

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9 hours ago, P'Son said:

Look folks, we aren't drafting high enough to get a good QB talent this year.  

Actually 13th is plenty high enough.  

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7 minutes ago, Myles said:

Actually 13th is plenty high enough.  


The Colts at a minimum, are in a good position to move up and select a QB without mortgaging the farm. That is of course, if Ballard sees a QB he likes. 
 

I don’t view drafting a QB in Round 2, as Ballard’s first choice or a plan for the future. 
 


 

 

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12 minutes ago, MPStack said:


The Colts at a minimum, are in a good position to move up and select a QB without mortgaging the farm. That is of course, if Ballard sees a QB he likes. 
 

I don’t view drafting a QB in Round 2, as Ballard’s first choice or a plan for the future. 
 


 

 

I also don’t see Ballard passing on an impact player to reach for a QB. Of course what changes all this is if he falls in love with a QB. If that Webb is the highest rated player on his board. I don’t he will take a QB just because everyone thinks he should. 
 

let’s never forget that he traded back in 2018 with Bradley Chubb still on the board and took Big Q. Looks great now but everyone wanted Chubb. 

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2 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I also don’t see Ballard passing on an impact player to reach for a QB. Of course what changes all this is if he falls in love with a QB. If that Webb is the highest rated player on his board. I don’t he will take a QB just because everyone thinks he should. 
 

let’s never forget that he traded back in 2018 with Bradley Chubb still on the board and took Big Q. Looks great now but everyone wanted Chubb. 

Not me.   I would have been fine with taking Nelson at 3.   Genius that he got Nelson, Braden Smith, Kemoko Turay, Jordan Wilkins and Rock out of trading back 3 spots.   

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

This is something I can't figure out with some of those network evaluators. Are they putting out rankings based on their personal opinions or based on what they hear from teams? Both are valuable in certain ways, but fundamentally different ways. 

I think they do a little of both but don't ever seem to clearly disclose if its their thinking or recapping conversations they had with GMs or scouts.  

 

I think the big websites use their own thinking to rank players, but those websites employ ex-NFL personnel people sometimes too.

 

I think they tend to get the rankings pretty correct.  What I think they miss is when a GM is drafting players based upon certain valuable traits they want to develop, or to play a specific role they value highly.  I think that's where the surprise picks come from.

 

Example:  Will Ballard value a lower ranked QB that has traits more suited to running Reich's O over one that is ranked higher but runs Arians' O?

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21 hours ago, Myles said:

This was the scariest thing I've read on Love:

 

However, Love still has a lot to work on, with his field vision being painfully bad. He consistently locks his eyes on his primary read and does not move them away. He stares down targets and does not look off defenders. Love must start reading the field, working through his progressions, and making better decisions.

 

But I'll be honest, I haven't watched him play much (maybe once), so I can't say 1 way or another.

 

I don't agree with the bolded.

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18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't agree with the bolded.

Same. I think this is Walterfootball snippet. I'm not their biggest fan, especially of their scouting. 

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