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Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

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2 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

I may add that this is not the first mean retort from NCF. You can respond to a to a post without being so condescending. I have seen you disagree with a post but never with a mean and condescending reply. Its not in your nature.

I try to respect everyone's opinion and not be mean. NCF may have been harsh I agree but the JB bashing has been terrible at times. You mentioned a while back that the whole JB thing has split this forum apart. I do think however most of us agree that we need another QB in camp this upcoming season. I think we do. JB let me down the last few games. Let us all down.

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41 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

I may add that this is not the first mean retort from NCF. You can respond to a to a post without being so condescending. I have seen you disagree with a post but never with a mean and condescending reply. Its not in your nature.


Sorry..     I normally don’t have any issue with that particular poster.   I have no history with him.   But if you seriously found my post condescending to the point that you’re defending him, all I can say is that I thought he earned all the stuff I threw at him.  He didn’t ask for it, he practically begged for it! 
 

Your defense of him hints that you might actually agree with the OP.   Perhaps you feel that me bashing him feels like me bashing YOU?   Otherwise I don’t know what this is all about? 

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54 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Sorry..     I normally don’t have any issue with that particular poster.   I have no history with him.   But if you seriously found my post condescending to the point that you’re defending him, all I can say is that I thought he earned all the stuff I threw at him.  He didn’t ask for it, he practically begged for it! 
 

Your defense of him hints that you might actually agree with the OP.   Perhaps you feel that me bashing him feels like me bashing YOU?   Otherwise I don’t know what this is all about? 

My post had nothing to do with his post at all. Your retort in my mind can't be justified on a fan forum board period.

 

Edit: I want to add that his post was out of line and I do not agree with it at all but the old adage that 'two wrongs don't make a right' applies here.

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Who says Reich is “hanging his career” on anything?   Let’s not forget Ballard and Irsay love JB too.    All were talking about us one more season for JB to show improvement.   If he doesn’t, he’ll be gone and a new QB will take his place.  

 

 Noone said it. 

 Reich did say he was top twenty. If he was/is, then that should be good enough for Frank to win with. Frank is still touting him, offering reasons why we he fell off.
 So if he remains the guy he has shown to be, it seems he would still be good enough for Frank.
 And that would be the guy Frank rides to however much glory.
  So today, i wonder just how much Frank REALLY does believe in him.

  kapesh? 

 And of course i have my own thoughts on that. And post draft i will have more thoughts. 
 

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I would personally love for JB to improve. The kind of leadership he has you don’t just find on trees. I would love for him to do the following:

 

I would love to see him Reich as often as allowed. 
 

I would also love him with Tom House a ton to perfect that throwing motion. 
 

Try to slim fine just bit yo gain more speed. 
 

Finally I would love, I mean love, if he did something like mark sanchez did (jets west) or Peyton did at duke. We’re he just threw balls with his WR to get the timing down, for a camp/team bonding experience. 

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1 hour ago, waittilnextyear said:

 

 Noone said it. 

 Reich did say he was top twenty. If he was/is, then that should be good enough for Frank to win with. Frank is still touting him, offering reasons why we he fell off.
 So if he remains the guy he has shown to be, it seems he would still be good enough for Frank.
 And that would be the guy Frank rides to however much glory.
  So today, i wonder just how much Frank REALLY does believe in him.

  kapesh? 

 And of course i have my own thoughts on that. And post draft i will have more thoughts. 
 

Yeah...   I think I kapesh...

 

Except the part about Frank putting his career in the line.   I think Frank and Ballard are pretty much in lockstep about JB.   If he works out, great.  If not, life goes on and we move on.  I don’t see anyone losing their job over Jacoby Brissett.  Not with the unique set of circumstance that started all of this. 

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12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t see anyone losing their job over Jacoby Brissett.  Not with the unique set of circumstance that started all of this. 


I think it’s dangerous with solely rolling with JB in 2020 and no future plan on the roster. Especially, if the Colts don’t make the playoffs and JB doesn’t progress. 
 

The shelf life for GM’s and Coach’s is 4.3 years. That’ll be year 4 for Ballard. 

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41 minutes ago, MPStack said:


I think it’s dangerous with solely rolling with JB in 2020 and no future plan on the roster. Especially, if the Colts don’t make the playoffs and JB doesn’t progress. 
 

The shelf life for GM’s and Coach’s is 4.3 years. That’ll be year 4 for Ballard. 

The front office will have a plan if JB turns out not to improve enough.  That means either they draft someone who would take over,  or we sign a free agent,  or we trade for someone.  
 

Not worried about Ballard.   If he’s doing nothing else,  he’s saving Irsay a TON of money.   Every year we are way below the salary cap.   That’s real money CB is saving Irsay.   I don’t see him pulling the plug on his GM or his HC.  

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12 hours ago, MPStack said:


I think it’s dangerous with solely rolling with JB in 2020 and no future plan on the roster. Especially, if the Colts don’t make the playoffs and JB doesn’t progress. 
 

The shelf life for GM’s and Coach’s is 4.3 years. That’ll be year 4 for Ballard. 

 

Yep kind of agree. And the moment this becomes even a question is the moment GMs become reckless and try to force things to save their jobs. 

 

Not saying this is what will happen with Ballard, but he's a human too and he's subject to the same emotions numerous other smart GMs on the hot seat have felt. You never know.  There are just too many examples of GMs making a complete mess of the future of a team while trying to keep their jobs. 

 

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The front office will have a plan if JB turns out not to improve enough.  That means either they draft someone who would take over,  or we sign a free agent,  or we trade for someone.  
 

Not worried about Ballard.   If he’s doing nothing else,  he’s saving Irsay a TON of money.   Every year we are way below the salary cap.   That’s real money CB is saving Irsay.   I don’t see him pulling the plug on his GM or his HC.  

I don't think saving money is close to the top of Irsay's priorities. He wants a winning football team before all else. He's never been cheap and if anything it's been Ballard that has had to rein him in a bit with his desire to spend. 

 

I'm alright with us going forward with Jacoby next year, but only with the condition that it is because Ballard tried to get a QB and just couldn't or didn't like anyone in the draft, etc. I don't want to hear the excuses and pipe dreams "oh but we were 5-2 before he got injured... oh, but maybe he will get better, oh but look at this team winning with sub-par QB". Ballard is smarter than this. He should evaluate what Jacoby is and what he isn't, what he's likely to improve on and what he's not likely to improve on. He should evaluate what exactly he was BEFORE the injury not based on what the team and the running game and the defense were doing, but based on what Jacoby himself was doing. I don't want a GM who is content with mediocrity(and quite honestly - below mediocrity) at the QB position. This is not a sustainable recipe to win in the league. There is just too little margin of error elsewhere on the team when the QB is subpar. 

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12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yeah...   I think I kapesh...

 

Except the part about Frank putting his career in the line.   I think Frank and Ballard are pretty much in lockstep about JB.   If he works out, great.  If not, life goes on and we move on.  I don’t see anyone losing their job over Jacoby Brissett.  Not with the unique set of circumstance that started all of this. P

 

 There was no mention of losing his job.

 It is more to do with if he has jb as his QB the next 5... years what might his won loss and playoff record look like.

 Going by the overwhelming majority here, Frank, who put a big enough stamp of approval of his guy to garner him 30M, isn't looking so wise now.

 This subject is going to be extremely tiresome that is for sure.

 We all want to be contenders for the  SB is the bottom line.

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Colts played the 3d easiest pass-defense schedule and still couldn't throw against it. Yuck! 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Yep kind of agree. And the moment this becomes even a question is the moment GMs become reckless and try to force things to save their jobs. 

 

Not saying this is what will happen with Ballard, but he's a human too and he's subject to the same emotions numerous other smart GMs on the hot seat have felt. You never know.  There are just too many examples of GMs making a complete mess of the future of a team while trying to keep their jobs. 

 

I don't think saving money is close to the top of Irsay's priorities. He wants a winning football team before all else. He's never been cheap and if anything it's been Ballard that has had to rein him in a bit with his desire to spend. 

 

I'm alright with us going forward with Jacoby next year, but only with the condition that it is because Ballard tried to get a QB and just couldn't or didn't like anyone in the draft, etc. I don't want to hear the excuses and pipe dreams "oh but we were 5-2 before he got injured... oh, but maybe he will get better, oh but look at this team winning with sub-par QB". Ballard is smarter than this. He should evaluate what Jacoby is and what he isn't, what he's likely to improve on and what he's not likely to improve on. He should evaluate what exactly he was BEFORE the injury not based on what the team and the running game and the defense were doing, but based on what Jacoby himself was doing. I don't want a GM who is content with mediocrity(and quite honestly - below mediocrity) at the QB position. This is not a sustainable recipe to win in the league. There is just too little margin of error elsewhere on the team when the QB is subpar. 

In your response to me and not the other poster..,..   I’m not sure you and I could disagree more.   
 

Disagree from a standpoint that you seem to have written views that you don’t think Ballard has already considered?   As if, if Ballard read what you wrote, he’d be slapping his forehead and saying “Wow!  Why didn’t I think of this?!?”    You literally wrote a sentence saying “Ballard is smarter than this” as if you’re smarter than Ballard and you’re hoping he reads your post so he knows what to do?!?   Do you REALLY want to be THAT poster?    That’s not like you at all. 
 

Ballard has either already done, or will do, all the things you say you want him to do.  The difference is....   he may not reach the same conclusion as you or others here might.   But if JB underwhelms again, I don’t see Ballard getting trapped or stuck without a plan.  
 

Odds are high he’s either drafting someone, or signing a FA, or trading for someone.  The odds that we end the 2020 without a plan for the position would seem to border on zero.  Now, it might be a “bridge QB” and not a long term guy, but Ballard WILL have a plan. 
 

Finally...   since you dismissed it out of hand....  give Ballard his first three seasons with the exact same record.  EXCEPT he spent to within 5-10 mill of the cap.  Versus his real life record and having saved Irsay roughly $200-250 mill over three years.  I think if Ballard had spent big (which many people here have wanted). He really WOULD be on the hot seat.   I’m NOT talking about going forward.  I expect Ballard is going to pay more and more, and sign more and more, as we try to win it all. 
 

Sorry we disagree so much on this one. 

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5 hours ago, waittilnextyear said:

 

 There was no mention of losing his job.

 It is more to do with if he has jb as his QB the next 5... years what might his won loss and playoff record look like.

 Going by the overwhelming majority here, Frank, who put a big enough stamp of approval of his guy to garner him 30M, isn't looking so wise now.

 This subject is going to be extremely tiresome that is for sure.

 We all want to be contenders for the  SB is the bottom line.

Do you really think Ballard signed JB as some sort of favor?   As if Ballard didn’t really want him but Frank did so the JB thing hangs over Frank’s head and not Chris Ballard’s as well?  It was Ballard who traded for him.  
 

As for no mention of losing his job....   sure there was.   In your first post you wrote the phrase “hanging his career” about Frank’s support of JB.   I don’t know how you want to spin that today, but that’s losing his job.   Period.

 

Kapeesh?

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

In your response to me and not the other poster..,..   I’m not sure you and I could disagree more.   
 

Disagree from a standpoint that you seem to have written views that you don’t think Ballard has already considered?   As if, if Ballard read what you wrote, he’d be slapping his forehead and saying “Wow!  Why didn’t I think of this?!?”    You literally wrote a sentence saying “Ballard is smarter than this” as if you’re smarter than Ballard and you’re hoping he reads your post so he knows what to do?!?   Do you REALLY want to be THAT poster?    That’s not like you at all. 

 

Huh? No, those are the types of arguments I see here for why JB should be kept as starter and why we shouldn't address QB. This was my whole point. He's smarter than this and I believe he has a much more sophisticated process than any of us here do(including myself). I have no illusions about Ballard reading this forum and drawing any wisdom out of mine or anyone else's posts. Actually, if he did - that's when I would be worried :D 

 

Those things I listed are more what I would consider a better way to evaluate what we have in Brissett, rather than the wishful thinking many posters here display, and again by no means do I think I have any knowledge or wisdom that Ballard and his staff don't. In fact, I believe I've said this about half dozen times already in different iterations - I think Ballard and his FO have a base of knowledge, the financial and people resources that none of us here can touch, but this doesn't mean we cannot disagree with some of the decisions or processes sometimes. Otherwise there will be no point in this forum ... we would all be just singing anthems for the greatness of Ballard and anything he ever did would be met with nothing but unwavering praise. 

 

 

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Ballard has either already done, or will do, all the things you say you want him to do.  The difference is....   he may not reach the same conclusion as you or others here might.   But if JB underwhelms again, I don’t see Ballard getting trapped or stuck without a plan.  

 

That's very likely the case and I bet they will continue doing their evaluation once the coaches and FO get together and start reviewing tape both of the season and of prospects/FA targets. If he reaches a different conclusion, that's alright. I will express my disagreement here and the world will go on. At the end of the day, we are Colts fans and Ballard is making the decisions for the team now, so we will hope that his decision is the best one for the team.  

 

 

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Odds are high he’s either drafting someone, or signing a FA, or trading for someone.  The odds that we end the 2020 without a plan for the position would seem to border on zero.  Now, it might be a “bridge QB” and not a long term guy, but Ballard WILL have a plan. 

What do you mean by "end the 2020 without a plan"? Do you consider Ballard having the intention to draft a QB in 2021 at the end of 2020 as "having a plan"?

 

To me a bridge QB is not a plan. Jacoby is a bridge QB and for me he's not a plan. You can put Dalton or Rivers or Mariota as bridge QBs and they all would not be a plan. They are what what you have until you get your plan in the building. I want the long-term solution at the QB position in the building. This is a plan to me. 

 

 

Quote

 

Finally...   since you dismissed it out of hand....  give Ballard his first three seasons with the exact same record.  EXCEPT he spent to within 5-10 mill of the cap.  Versus his real life record and having saved Irsay roughly $200-250 mill over three years.  I think if Ballard had spent big (which many people here have wanted). He really WOULD be on the hot seat.   I’m NOT talking about going forward.  I expect Ballard is going to pay more and more, and sign more and more, as we try to win it all. 
 

Sorry we disagree so much on this one. 

 

You might be right about this one... but here the problem would not be the spending, it would be the performance. There are different arcs of development for the team depending on the strategy chosen that I bet Ballard has discussed with Irsay with all their positives and negatives and I have hard time disassociating them with the results since some of those that rely on heavy spending are specifically aimed at quick improvement of performance so the goals would be different had Ballard pursued that type of strategy.

 

About going forward with this current strategy - I still don't expect Ballard to pay tons for players outside of the organization. We will have targeted additions like last year, but I mostly expect Ballard to give extensions to our own players that he likes. 

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9 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Huh? No, those are the types of arguments I see here for why JB should be kept as starter and why we shouldn't address QB. This was my whole point. He's smarter than this and I believe he has a much more sophisticated process than any of us here do(including myself). I have no illusions about Ballard reading this forum and drawing any wisdom out of mine or anyone else's posts. Actually, if he did - that's when I would be worried :D 

 

Those things I listed are more what I would consider a better way to evaluate what we have in Brissett, rather than the wishful thinking many posters here display, and again by no means do I think I have any knowledge or wisdom that Ballard and his staff don't. In fact, I believe I've said this about half dozen times already in different iterations - I think Ballard and his FO have a base of knowledge, the financial and people resources that none of us here can touch, but this doesn't mean we cannot disagree with some of the decisions or processes sometimes. Otherwise there will be no point in this forum ... we would all be just singing anthems for the greatness of Ballard and anything he ever did would be met with nothing but unwavering praise. 

 

 

 

That's very likely the case and I bet they will continue doing their evaluation once the coaches and FO get together and start reviewing tape both of the season and of prospects/FA targets. If he reaches a different conclusion, that's alright. I will express my disagreement here and the world will go on. At the end of the day, we are Colts fans and Ballard is making the decisions for the team now, so we will hope that his decision is the best one for the team.  

 

 

What do you mean by "end the 2020 without a plan"? Do you consider Ballard having the intention to draft a QB in 2021 at the end of 2020 as "having a plan"?

 

To me a bridge QB is not a plan. Jacoby is a bridge QB and for me he's not a plan. You can put Dalton or Rivers or Mariota as bridge QBs and they all would not be a plan. They are what what you have until you get your plan in the building. I want the long-term solution at the QB position in the building. This is a plan to me. 

 

 

You might be right about this one... but here the problem would not be the spending, it would be the performance. There are different arcs of development for the team depending on the strategy chosen that I bet Ballard has discussed with Irsay with all their positives and negatives and I have hard time disassociating them with the results since some of those that rely on heavy spending are specifically aimed at quick improvement of performance so the goals would be different had Ballard pursued that type of strategy.

 

About going forward with this current strategy - I still don't expect Ballard to pay tons for players outside of the organization. We will have targeted additions like last year, but I mostly expect Ballard to give extensions to our own players that he likes. 

 

OK.....

 

We either have lots more disagreement,  or lots more confusion.  Or both.    So, you're now saying your comments about Ballard and the type of GM you want, were....   rhetorical?     You now say you recognize all the things you want in a GM you currently HAVE with Chris Ballard?    Is that what you're saying?     I don't see what the point of saying all the things you want in a GM,  when you later say that you agree Ballard has all those qualities and is doing all those things.   What's the point?    How are you advancing the discussion?  

 

And we disagree about the issue of a "bridge quarterback".    Look, I went to the passing stats tonight.    Looked at everyone.   And somewhere between roughly 16 and 20,  the good quarterbacks stop.   That means everyone else doesn't have a very good QB.   That's a lot of teams that can't feel great about their QB situation.    It's a badly kept secret.   32 teams,  but maybe roughly 20 quality NFL quarterbacks.   What are the rest of the teams supposed to do.  Ballard might draft someone.   Maybe in the first or second round.   But with the high failure rate,  that's no guarantee that that player is going to be our next Franchise Quarterback.   We might have to draft another in 21?    Or in 22?   Someone like Belichick drafted a bunch.   Some teams try to draft one every year.

 

Ballard can't make a franchise QB appear out of thin air.   And if there's one he likes,  what happens if another team grabs him before Ballard can?    Not Ballard's fault.    Some times these things take years to sort out.    Welcome to the NFL.    By the way,  Tennessee once thought Marcus Mariotta might be their franchise QB.    He hasn't worked out.   People here scoffed over them signing Ryan Tannehill.    Now, HE looks like the Titans QB of the future.   The NFL can get pretty weird that way.    I just have confidence that CB knows what he's doing and has a plan.   That's why you don't see me participating much in long pointless threads bashing Brissett even after Ballard's presser.    People saying JB sucks,  even after Ballard has explained that he doesn't.   That the team is willing to give him another shot.   I don't waste my time in those kinds of discussions.

 

Look...   I hold you in the highest esteem.   I value your opionion.   I think many other people here do too.    I'm not sure if we're debating semantics,  or we see the same thing differently?   I'm happy to keep discussing this to see if there's an answer we're both comfortable with......

 

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK.....

 

We either have lots more disagreement,  or lots more confusion.  Or both.    So, you're now saying your comments about Ballard and the type of GM you want, were....   rhetorical?     You now say you recognize all the things you want in a GM you currently HAVE with Chris Ballard?    Is that what you're saying?     I don't see what the point of saying all the things you want in a GM,  when you later say that you agree Ballard has all those qualities and is doing all those things.   What's the point?    How are you advancing the discussion?  

 

What comments about Ballard being rhetorical? My stance for a while has been that I like Ballard and I think he's the man for the job. I think he's done good job building up the roster. I actually like the roster more than most people here it seems. 

 

With all that said... we still don't really know what his philosophy about the QB position is. This is my point. I bet he will do his best to evaluate Jacoby and make a decision on the QB position, but we still don't know what he's thinking there. Does he think he can win consistently with Jacoby 2019-like QB play? If this is what he thinks I fundamentally will disagree with this philosophy(for whatever it's worth his comments in his latest press-conference suggest that he doesn't think that, he thinks we need much better passing game performance). Does he think Jacoby can improve in the areas he needs to improve in order for us to build a consistent winner around him? This is more arguable, but IMO we've seen enough of the same problems repeating with Jacoby from college to his rookie year, to 2017 to 2019 to know that it's extremely unlikely that he will improve to a level that will allow us to be consistent contenders with that type of QB play.  In that respect I don't know if Ballard has all the things I want in a GM. He might... or he might not. We'll see by the decisions he makes going forward and how those decisions affect the team. The QB position is big enough part of team building that it must have outsized impact on what you think of the job of the GM IMO.

 

 

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And we disagree about the issue of a "bridge quarterback".    Look, I went to the passing stats tonight.    Looked at everyone.   And somewhere between roughly 16 and 20,  the good quarterbacks stop.   That means everyone else doesn't have a very good QB.   That's a lot of teams that can't feel great about their QB situation.    It's a badly kept secret.   32 teams,  but maybe roughly 20 quality NFL quarterbacks.   What are the rest of the teams supposed to do.  Ballard might draft someone.   Maybe in the first or second round.   But with the high failure rate,  that's no guarantee that that player is going to be our next Franchise Quarterback.   We might have to draft another in 21?    Or in 22?   Someone like Belichick drafted a bunch.   Some teams try to draft one every year.

 

The rest of the teams should be looking for their way to becoming one of those 15-20 teams with franchise QBs. And yes - QB is such a huge impact position that you have to keep drafting until you get the one that's going to be the solution for you. If you know with good enough certainty you don't have the guy, you go get another one. Rinse and repeat. Until you get him. There is no easy solution and there is no guarantee. But being in perpetual limbo with long-term sub-mediocrity at QB is not a solution either. The mistake people make when talking about there being no guarantee the guy you draft will be great, is that they assume that other positions you draft are different. They are NOT. Whoever you spend the draft pick on will have roughly the same(with some outliers) chance of being a great pick. The WR or DT or EDGE you draft at 14 or 20 will have about the same chance of success as the QB. The difference is - the reward on hitting on a QB is SO MUCH BIGGER than anything any other position can give you. The difference between great DT and Grover Stewart is probably about 1 win over the length of a season. The difference between Jacoby and a great QB is probably 3-4 wins over the length of a season. 

 

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Ballard can't make a franchise QB appear out of thin air.   And if there's one he likes,  what happens if another team grabs him before Ballard can?    Not Ballard's fault.    Some times these things take years to sort out.    Welcome to the NFL.    By the way,  Tennessee once thought Marcus Mariotta might be their franchise QB.    He hasn't worked out.   People here scoffed over them signing Ryan Tannehill.    Now, HE looks like the Titans QB of the future.   The NFL can get pretty weird that way.    I just have confidence that CB knows what he's doing and has a plan.   That's why you don't see me participating much in long pointless threads bashing Brissett even after Ballard's presser.    People saying JB sucks,  even after Ballard has explained that he doesn't.   That the team is willing to give him another shot.   I don't waste my time in those kinds of discussions.

Yeah, I agree to some degree that there are some things Ballard cannot control(for example, if he likes Burrow, I really don't know if there is anything at all he can do to get him). But I also think some things are in his control and he's paid to make some of those decisions and put the team in position to get some of those players - for example, hypothetically, lets say he really really likes Herbert... but refuses to spend one 3d round pick to jump in front of Oakland and they take him at 12 right in front of us. Or another team behind us knows that Ballard likes him and jumps us to get him. I think those are scenarios he gets paid to think about and play out theoretically and make a decision about what he wants to do on draft day about it. 

 

About Tannehill - yeah... I didn't scoff at that. There is a post of mine somewhere here from the time they signed him in which I said I really hope Mariota doesn't get injured because Tannehill is a much better QB. Now I didn't believe he will be THIS good, but yeah... 

 

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Look...   I hold you in the highest esteem.   I value your opionion.   I think many other people here do too.    I'm not sure if we're debating semantics,  or we see the same thing differently?   I'm happy to keep discussing this to see if there's an answer we're both comfortable with......

 

I'm not quite sure where the disagreement is exactly. To me it looks like you have some inherent dislike for people passing judgement on Ballard and the FO because they know better. This is not the first time we've had this exact same conversation, you know the "you really think you know better than Ballard?" conversation. Maybe I'm not expressing myself clear and precise enough and something gets lost in translation. 

 

Oh well, I love most of the thoughtful(non-trollish) discussions here, that's why we are here after all and that's what the purpose of a fan message board is.  

 

Cheers. :cheers:

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5 hours ago, stitches said:

What comments about Ballard being rhetorical? My stance for a while has been that I like Ballard and I think he's the man for the job. I think he's done good job building up the roster. I actually like the roster more than most people here it seems. 

 

With all that said... we still don't really know what his philosophy about the QB position is. This is my point. I bet he will do his best to evaluate Jacoby and make a decision on the QB position, but we still don't know what he's thinking there. Does he think he can win consistently with Jacoby 2019-like QB play? If this is what he thinks I fundamentally will disagree with this philosophy(for whatever it's worth his comments in his latest press-conference suggest that he doesn't think that, he thinks we need much better passing game performance). Does he think Jacoby can improve in the areas he needs to improve in order for us to build a consistent winner around him? This is more arguable, but IMO we've seen enough of the same problems repeating with Jacoby from college to his rookie year, to 2017 to 2019 to know that it's extremely unlikely that he will improve to a level that will allow us to be consistent contenders with that type of QB play.  In that respect I don't know if Ballard has all the things I want in a GM. He might... or he might not. We'll see by the decisions he makes going forward and how those decisions affect the team. The QB position is big enough part of team building that it must have outsized impact on what you think of the job of the GM IMO.

 

 

 

The rest of the teams should be looking for their way to becoming one of those 15-20 teams with franchise QBs. And yes - QB is such a huge impact position that you have to keep drafting until you get the one that's going to be the solution for you. If you know with good enough certainty you don't have the guy, you go get another one. Rinse and repeat. Until you get him. There is no easy solution and there is no guarantee. But being in perpetual limbo with long-term sub-mediocrity at QB is not a solution either. The mistake people make when talking about there being no guarantee the guy you draft will be great, is that they assume that other positions you draft are different. They are NOT. Whoever you spend the draft pick on will have roughly the same(with some outliers) chance of being a great pick. The WR or DT or EDGE you draft at 14 or 20 will have about the same chance of success as the QB. The difference is - the reward on hitting on a QB is SO MUCH BIGGER than anything any other position can give you. The difference between great DT and Grover Stewart is probably about 1 win over the length of a season. The difference between Jacoby and a great QB is probably 3-4 wins over the length of a season. 

 

Yeah, I agree to some degree that there are some things Ballard cannot control(for example, if he likes Burrow, I really don't know if there is anything at all he can do to get him). But I also think some things are in his control and he's paid to make some of those decisions and put the team in position to get some of those players - for example, hypothetically, lets say he really really likes Herbert... but refuses to spend one 3d round pick to jump in front of Oakland and they take him at 12 right in front of us. Or another team behind us knows that Ballard likes him and jumps us to get him. I think those are scenarios he gets paid to think about and play out theoretically and make a decision about what he wants to do on draft day about it. 

 

About Tannehill - yeah... I didn't scoff at that. There is a post of mine somewhere here from the time they signed him in which I said I really hope Mariota doesn't get injured because Tannehill is a much better QB. Now I didn't believe he will be THIS good, but yeah... 

 

 

I'm not quite sure where the disagreement is exactly. To me it looks like you have some inherent dislike for people passing judgement on Ballard and the FO because they know better. This is not the first time we've had this exact same conversation, you know the "you really think you know better than Ballard?" conversation. Maybe I'm not expressing myself clear and precise enough and something gets lost in translation. 

 

Oh well, I love most of the thoughtful(non-trollish) discussions here, that's why we are here after all and that's what the purpose of a fan message board is.  

 

Cheers. :cheers:

Thanks Stitch. Agree with all and hope it silences some who say stay with status quo as getting a franchise QB may take years. Will take forever if you never try. Some have said that we wait till 3rd or 4th round and pick one up which I feel is a wasted draft pick for a QB. We have a 3rd round QB now. 

Great post and keepum comun!!

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So - if JB is not the answer...why does the Colts organization insist on staying with him? Why are they all so persistent in their message of support for him - even after the disastrous 2019 season?  Why?

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5 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

So - if JB is not the answer...why does the Colts organization insist on staying with him? Why are they all so persistent in their message of support for him - even after the disastrous 2019 season?  Why?

I just don't think it's in their DNA to come out and openly not support him.  I think that would be their stance on any Colt player unless they have already made a decision on that player like Ebron for example.  We really don't know if they plan on staying with JB as the starter. There are too many options and alternatives for them to consider at this stage of the offseason.  We are all anxious but it will all play out in the next few months.  I don't think our QB position is locked in stone at this date on the calendar.  

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18 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

So - if JB is not the answer...why does the Colts organization insist on staying with him? Why are they all so persistent in their message of support for him - even after the disastrous 2019 season?  Why?

Part of it is because they don't have anything better on the roster and keeping your best QB happy and in good spirits and with high confidence is generally a good policy. Another part is that until they have another better QB they benefit from JB's image and value being as high as possible for reputation and for trade value purposes. If they trash him in front of the media or give clear indication that they are moving on from him they lose leverage in any trade talks both for Jacoby and for the draft if they plan on trading up. They also would give up their hand about their priorities in the draft if every team knew we are desperate for a QB in the draft and situations like Philly trading up in front of Houston to grab the last R1 tackle become more likely.

 

And on the other hand... IMO not very likely, but still possible - they still think he can improve and be better and they can win with him... 

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11 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

So - if JB is not the answer...why does the Colts organization insist on staying with him? Why are they all so persistent in their message of support for him - even after the disastrous 2019 season?  Why?

They won't stay with him. It's merely FO speak. Ballard can't tip his hand that he is ready to replace Brissett. It could hurt us in the draft, trades, or draft trades if other teams know we're desperate for a QB. We will have a new QB before the start of the 2020 season. I guarantee it.

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Just now, stitches said:

Part of it is because they don't have anything better on the roster and keeping your best QB happy and in good spirits and with high confidence is generally a good policy. Another part is that until they have another better QB they benefit from JB's image and value being as high as possible for reputation and for trade value purposes. If they trash him in front of the media or give clear indication that they are moving on from him they lose leverage in any trade talks both for Jacoby and for the draft if they plan on trading up. They also would give up their hand about their priorities in the draft if every team knew we are desperate for a QB in the draft and situations like Philly trading up in front of Houston to grab the last R1 tackle become more likely.

You had to beat me to it by 5 seconds. haha Darn my on-screen keyboard!

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

They won't stay with him. It's merely FO speak. Ballard can't tip his hand that he is ready to replace Brissett. It could hurt us in the draft, trades, or draft trades if other teams know we're desperate for a QB. We will have a new QB before the start of the 2020 season. I guarantee it.


Yeah, I agree! It’s still early, FA and the combine haven’t even started yet. CB has plenty of work to do until, and not much to tell.

 

Like I mentioned in another thread, I doubt Ballard strictly rolls with Brissett and nothing else in 2020. GM’s tenure’s typically range 4-5 years and if 2020 ends up being anything like 2019 and no new QB is on board, things might get dicey for Ballard. 
 

I think it’s rather common sense, and I’d be very surprised if Ballard doesn’t make a move on a veteran or draft a QB early. 

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say this, which probably has been said before by a few believers, but while although JB DID let me down the 2nd half of the season, I feel like there are things that can be corrected in the off season.  This is his time to prove, that if he works hard this offseason, knowing that he is the starter next year, he can (hopefully) get better.  I'm not holding my breath, but I'm a Colts fan, so I want him to succeed.  Maybe going to a Manning QB camp would help him? <shrugs>  I don't know!

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14 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

Maybe going to a Manning QB camp would help him? <shrugs>  I don't know!

 

Those camps are for high school QBs, being tutored by college QBs. I'm not sure if JB ever attended, either as a learner or a counselor...

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I’m of the camp that doesn’t think Brissett is just average. I actually think he’s awful. Our fan base is used to having an elite QB who carries a mediocre roster but now the inverse is true. We have a pretty talented roster that is caring a very poor QB. I just think, if Brissett was on the Colts teams Luck was on from 2012-2016 how many games does he win? 2017 gets thrown out the window because he was only in the offense for a few weeks, but he had the same issues then and won 4 games.

 

Ive mulled it over for a week or so now and I just can’t help but think he’s just awful. Average is an insult to average. For starters look at the wins and losses? If we want to say that we lost certain games because of the kicking issues and others, how many games did Jacoby “win”? The 1st Texans game and the Broncos? Aside from that Mack pretty much carried the offense.

 

And the list of things he does wrong are things that just always equal bad QB play

-Holds the ball too long which results in unnecessary sacks that make the O-line look bad.

-Routinely misses WIDE open receivers -awful pocket awareness

-Too timid to take deep shots when needed

-Locks onto his 1st read and doesn’t always go through his progressions

-Not really able to rollout and deliver the ball on the move

-Not athletic/mobile enough for today’s game

 

So if this topic is about final Brissett impressions, then that is mine. Jacoby Brissett is a mediocre-below average QB whose flaws are hidden by a good roster that is spearheaded by an elite O-line and running game where he isn’t asked to do much, so his numbers look favorable. Despite having acceptable talent around him he was outperformed stat wise by other QBs who aren’t considered “good”. No influx of elite WRs will fix Jacoby.

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3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I’m of the camp that doesn’t think Brissett is just average. I actually think he’s awful. Our fan base is used to having an elite QB who carries a mediocre roster but now the inverse is true. We have a pretty talented roster that is caring a very poor QB. I just think, if Brissett was on the Colts teams Luck was on from 2012-2016 how many games does he win? 2017 gets thrown out the window because he was only in the offense for a few weeks, but he had the same issues then and won 4 games.

 

Ive mulled it over for a week or so now and I just can’t help but think he’s just awful. Average is an insult to average. For starters look at the wins and losses? If we want to say that we lost certain games because of the kicking issues and others, how many games did Jacoby “win”? The 1st Texans game and the Broncos? Aside from that Mack pretty much carried the offense.

 

And the list of things he does wrong are things that just always equal bad QB play

-Holds the ball too long which results in unnecessary sacks that make the O-line look bad.

-Routinely misses WIDE open receivers -awful pocket awareness

-Too timid to take deep shots when needed

-Locks onto his 1st read and doesn’t always go through his progressions

-Not really able to rollout and deliver the ball on the move

-Not athletic/mobile enough for today’s game

 

So if this topic is about final Brissett impressions, then that is mine. Jacoby Brissett is a mediocre-below average QB whose flaws are hidden by a good roster that is spearheaded by an elite O-line and running game where he isn’t asked to do much, so his numbers look favorable. Despite having acceptable talent around him he was outperformed stat wise by other QBs who aren’t considered “good”. No influx of elite WRs will fix Jacoby.

You think our Roster is good? Besides our O.Line which I think is great at run blocking, what else is good about it? If JB had Marvin, Reggie, Dallas, Edge, our 2006 O.Line and he played poorly you would have a point.

 

Our Kicker cost us at least 2 games. Had JB had 2006 Adam we would've been 10-6. This place should be nicknamed the Jacoby Brissett hate site.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You think our Roster is good? Besides our O.Line which I think is great at run blocking, what else is good about it? If JB had Marvin, Reggie, Dallas, Edge, our 2006 O.Line and played poorly you would have a point.

Unfortunately  2006, if JB had Marvin, Reggie, Dallas and Edge we may never have heard of these players at the time or we wouldn't be talking about them today. They certainly contributed but Peyton made them great. Without a great QB they would have been meh.

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2 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Unfortunately  2006, if JB had Marvin, Reggie, Dallas and Edge we may never have heard of these players at the time or we wouldn't be talking about them today. They certainly contributed but Peyton made them great. Without a great QB they would have been meh.

I think Marvin would've great with an average QB, Edge could've ran behind a Line that was at least above average. Of course Peyton would make anyone look better. He was Peyton.

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I am already on record saying we should take a QB at 13. If Love is there I would take a gamble on him assuming he does well in his interviews, etc.. He looks good on film. I just think the JB hate is a bit worn out by now. We all know how people feel about him at this point but still everyday it is pile on JB day it seems. JB did his best this year when Luck decided to retire, we didn't suck in reality, we were in almost every game, and had we been healthy with a good kicking game we may still be playing next week. 

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You think our Roster is good? Besides our O.Line which I think is great at run blocking, what else is good about it? If JB had Marvin, Reggie, Dallas, Edge, our 2006 O.Line and he played poorly you would have a point.

 

Our Kicker cost us at least 2 games. Had JB had 2006 Adam we would've been 10-6. This place should be nicknamed the Jacoby Brissett hate site.

You want to talk about receivers? Do you forget that at one point Luck was throwing the ball to Grif Whalen and Da’Rick Rodgers? Still made the playoffs. Heck, even Matt Hassleback beat the Texans with no one besides Andre Johnson having his only good game of the season. And that was back when the O-line was terrible.

 

And our team has holes but it’s pretty good. O-line is best or 2nd best, had a top 5 running game by the numbers, and arguably a top 5 LB core. Not to mention a talented TE duo that had a pro-bowl TE when Luck was here. Run D was top 11 I think.

 

Good QBs elevate the play of the talent around them. Bad QBs are the ones who people always say there’s not enough weapons for them ( i.e. Jay Cutler, Mariota, Trubisky, etc...). 

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We could being drafting a quarterback in the first round next year if we take Love, and we still won't have the defensive tackle we need. I was glad to hear Ballard say he won't reach for a quarterback.

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Here's a legit question, what if Ballard doesn't draft a QB at all. How disappointed or mad will you guys be? He might not. He might go mostly defense and draft a WR and roll with JB. 

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here's a legit question, what if Ballard doesn't draft a QB at all. How disappointed or mad will you guys be? He might not. He might go mostly defense and draft a WR and roll with JB. 

Extremely disappointed. It’s okay to miss. It’s not okay to not even take a swing. If you pass then what’s the solution? Wait till next year where you have to win 4 games or less to have a shot at the top 2 QBs or trade years worth of picks? That’s not smart IMO.

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2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Extremely disappointed. It’s okay to miss. It’s not okay to not even take a swing. If you pass then what’s the solution? Wait till next year where you have to win 4 games or less to have a shot at the top 2 QBs or trade years worth of picks? That’s not smart IMO.

It could happen that is why I threw the question out. I think with JB we would be between 7 and 10 wins, we won't suck but could miss the playoffs again. I would like to see Ballard draft a QB at 13 but I pray he guesses right.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here's a legit question, what if Ballard doesn't draft a QB at all. How disappointed or mad will you guys be? He might not. He might go mostly defense and draft a WR and roll with JB. 

 

If Ballard doesn't draft a QB or bring in a legit FA (and I don't know that there is any legit FAs IMO unless Carr somehow comes free); I believe that most the fanbase will be pretty upset.  IF Ballard passes on a QB he could have drafted and passes on all FAs and one of the Qbs he could have gotten turns out to be great fans will be calling for Ballard's head, and his seat would get VERY hot; and it would take an extraordinary set of circumstances for him keep his job beyond 2021.

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22 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

If Ballard doesn't draft a QB or bring in a legit FA (and I don't know that there is any legit FAs IMO unless Carr somehow comes free); I believe that most the fanbase will be pretty upset.  IF Ballard passes on a QB he could have drafted and passes on all FAs and one of the Qbs he could have gotten turns out to be great fans will be calling for Ballard's head, and his seat would get VERY hot; and it would take an extraordinary set of circumstances for him keep his job beyond 2021.

What if we stick with JB and the Colts go 10-6 and win the division? Something some people think could never happen but it could. How would that make Ballard look?

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What if we stick with JB and the Colts go 10-6 and win the division? Something some people think could never happen but it could. How would that make Ballard look?

 

I think the chance of that happening is slim to none; but I'll play along ... Depends on how we win. Did we win because of JB or despite him, or did we slip in on luck. If we won despite JB playing poorly again, his seat won't be as hot (but still warm), and he probably bought himself another year to fix the QB position. If in some alternate universe JB magically becomes a good franchise QB (almost couldn't type that for laughing) than he looks like a genius.

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