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Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)


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16 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Irsay may be watching ticket sales but the Colts were last valued by Forbes at 2.7 Billion dollars.  Irsay is not hurting for cash.  Also it is reported that in 2018, each NFL franchise earned 255 Million just from TV rights.  The gate and butts in seats don't matter as much as they used to.

 

Also, Ballard could care less about tickets and attendance.  that is not his job.  His job is to put the best team on the field and spend Irsay's money, wisely.

LOL. Who's responsibility is it for P&L. If you've ever run a business or had P&L responsibility you would see things differently. Ballard absolutely cares. And it doesn't matter one bit how much Irsay is worth. When revenue drops an effective business person doesn't ignore things regardless of how much they are worth. 

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Yep...he creates posts daily that discuss the QB position. Even the thread about wanting to draft a certain QB tie back to the idea of giving JB more time.

Okay So as I watch the Niners game I am noticing that Jimmy G is operating the game in a way thenReich and the Colts want JB to. I have the a huge take...   Jimmy G is no better than JB

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11 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Yeah, there’s been a shift away from people plugging JB as the long term option to now just saying “well, he’s gonna be the starter next year so get used to it.”

 

I think most everybody knows JB starting next year is a possibility if not a probability. Especially considering our realistic options in the draft. But I do hope they grab that guy this offseason, assuming Ballard likes one of them.

BTW, I'm actually not ruling out whoever we draft, starting game 1. Reich was part of the coaching staff that prepared Wentz to be able to start game 1 in his rookie year. Now Wentz was more advanced than most of the players we are talking about, but still... the moment you draft a QB high, priority no. 1 for the coaching staff becomes making that guy ready to play ASAP and Reich already has experience with that process and they didn't have any problems benching a former no. 1 pick in Sam Bradford, for whom they traded Nick Foles and a 2nd round pick just the previous year, for Wentz's game 1 of his rookie year(after which Bradford asked for a trade). 

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6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

LOL. Who's responsibility is it for P&L. If you've ever run a business or had P&L responsibility you would see things differently. Ballard absolutely cares. And it doesn't matter one bit how much Irsay is worth. When revenue drops an effective business person doesn't ignore things regardless of how much they are worth. 

I have seen a P&L.  I ran a non profit for years and have seen that a time or two, lol.

 

I just say that, Irsay trust Ballard and Reich and if they are telling him that JB can be good and effective, he will trust them.  Also, if JB plays the way he did in the first 7 weeks, for an entire season and the Colts are winning 10-12 games, fans will show up.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

What a lot of us have been saying.

 

 

I don't doubt the injury could be part of it.   

I also think tape on him is part of it.  When teams see that he is a 1 read QB, it get's easier to defend against.  

WR injuries have some to do with it to.

For me and what I have seen (nearly every minute of every game), at best he can be a top 15 QB.  At worst a bottom 7 QB.  

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Even if they decide to draft a QB in the first round they need to work with Jacoby in the off season because he is probably the starter next year. Plus it will help him maybe get another starting job somewhere else if he improves. Apparently nicks presser today was all about how they plan on trying to improve Jacoby for next year. Everything needs to be honest this was kind of a let’s seee what he has year. Now it’s all about improving his weaknesses after frank has got to see him play a full season in his system. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

What a lot of us have been saying.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is going to be a interesting draft and if they decide to give Jacoby another season before drafting a QB.

 

 

 

I've noticed JB's dropback and his hitch have been different at times, especially since the injury.

 

But let's not try to reduce this to a pre-injury vs post-injury evaluation, as if there were no issues with JB's play before he got hurt. He had issues before the injury that some people wouldn't acknowledge because the team was 5-2. Those issues still exist, and if anything, have just been emphasized further because he got hurt and his fundamentals deteriorated.

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I can’t remember who stated this early but they said that his knee was effecting him. It was reported that he worked with Tom House in the offseason. The speculation was when he hurt his knee he was compensating and he reverted back to bad old habits that he had prior to Tom House. 
 

Also, this is more proof that they are sticking with him. They are starting to give reasons for the regression. This is what everyone said they thought might happen. 

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I fully expect them to still look to draft a QB in the off season. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t still work with Jacoby in the off season to try and improve his weaknesses. Especially if he needs to start next year with a rookie sitting a year. Also who knows things might of improved as the season went on if WR had stayed healthy and there had been no knee injury. I think it will be fascinating if he starts next season to see if there are noticeable improvements.

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Keep those excuses coming! First Adam, now Jacoby. Any other players underperforming that we can make an excuse for? 
 

If your healthy enough to be trotted out there week after week, and never miss a rep in practice, then you are going to be judged on your performance without any excuses attached. 
 

 

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Everyone can trash Jacoby all they want. But if your honest with yourself he has had to take over in two really crappy situations. Never got to stop and take a breath on being the starter. I will find it intriguing to watch him next season when he has no drama and has a off season as the guy. Not holding things down waiting for Luck to return. Taking time in the off season with his WR building on some chemistry.  

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17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Everyone can trash Jacoby all they want. But if your honest with yourself he has had to take over in two really crappy situations. Never got to stop and take a breath on being the starter. I will find it intriguing to watch him next season when he has no drama and has a off season as the guy. Not holding things down waiting for Luck to return. Taking time in the off season with his WR building on some chemistry.  

I completely agree. Everyone has been so quick to bash him this year because he is no Manning or Luck. Let him breathe and I expect him to really thrive. 

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Yeah, the “fans are spoiled” and “he’s in a bad situation” takes are and have always been lazy and kind of shallow arguments.

 

Especially considering in terms of pass blocking, he’s been in a great situation. And in terms of coaching, also a pretty great situation. Reich has, for the most part, done a solid job scheming guys open. Especially in recent weeks.

 

I thought his knee was bugging him more than what he and Reich were letting on, or at least that his mechanics have deteriorated, but yeah, that doesn’t negate areas he struggled before the injury and certain areas since the injury. 

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I have clearly said if there is a guy in the draft who we feel can be the next franchise guy we need to try and get them. But I also can say I am looking forward to next year if he is the starter to see what he can do with healthy and upgraded weapons. Plus having a list of things to work on. No drama going into the season can go along way.  No just waiting for Luck to come back. Ir will be his team fully for at least a year.

 

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14 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yeah, the “fans are spoiled” and “he’s in a bad situation” takes are and have always been lazy and kind of shallow arguments.

 

Especially considering in terms of pass blocking, he’s been in a great situation. And in terms of coaching, also a pretty great situation. Reich has, for the most part, done a solid job scheming guys open. Especially in recent weeks.

 

I thought his knee was bugging him more than what he and Reich were letting on, or at least that his mechanics have deteriorated, but yeah, that doesn’t negate areas he struggled before the injury and certain areas since the injury. 

Here is what we don’t know though. How much improvement in his game might of happened if everyone stays mostly healthy and he doesn’t get injured.  

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Here is what we don’t know though. How much improvement in his game might of happened if everyone stays mostly healthy and he doesn’t get injured.  

Here is what we do know. He didn't improve from 2017 and he had a year to learn Reich's offense while also learning under a damn good QB. He didn't seem to improve taking every first team snap in the off season. His predraft evaluation mirrors his current shortcomings after 4 years in the league. 

You're asking how much improvement would we have seen if he and everyone stayed healthy. We will never know but we do know from his history that whatever the factors were his improvement was not substantial. How much longer can this franchise wait?   

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18 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Here is what we do know. He didn't improve from 2017 and he had a year to learn Reich's offense while also learning under a damn good QB. He didn't seem to improve taking every first team snap in the off season. His predraft evaluation mirrors his current shortcomings after 4 years in the league. 

You're asking how much improvement would we have seen if he and everyone stayed healthy. We will never know but we do know from his history that whatever the factors were his improvement was not substantial. How much longer can this franchise wait?   

I’m so tired of this excuse. Learning in a classroom and taking reps in practice are not the same as actually applying it in game. Everyone says the game speed is very different. There have been plenty of players who have blown people away in practice and suck in real game action. 
 

I know this is a horrible example but as a student I can practice a speech presentation 1,000 times but once I get in front of a class of 200 it doesn’t matter. 
 

Practice is not the same as actual game action. 

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3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Here is what we don’t know though. How much improvement in his game might of happened if everyone stays mostly healthy and he doesn’t get injured.  

 

I mean, personally, I don’t think we would’ve seen much improvement. And even if he did, I doubt it would’ve been more than going from okay to pretty good.

 

Also, what if we don’t stay mostly healthy next year? Which is a pretty easy bet because, well, this the NFL and players get hurt especially down the stretch. 

 

Sure, our WR corps took some hits (just like they have in years past) but who’s to say our OL doesn’t take some hits next year? Or maybe a rash of RB injuries? Which, just to point out, we’ve been incredibly lucky in terms of injuries on those two fronts this year.

 

Also, JB tends to put himself in harms way a lot with how long he holds onto the ball and scrambles very frequently.

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5 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I’m so tired of this excuse. Learning in a classroom and taking reps in practice are not the same as actually applying it in game. Everyone says the game speed is very different. There have been plenty of players who have blown people away in practice and suck in real game action. 
 

I know this is a horrible example but as a student I can practice a speech presentation 1,000 times but once I get in front of a class of 200 it doesn’t matter. 
 

Practice is not the same as actual game action. 

 

And sure, that’s fine, but he’s also started about 30 games at this point. And he’s also 27. How much do you really expect him to improve?

 

I think we could see some improvement. But to expect a large jump from where he is now? Meh, I just don’t see it.

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Just now, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

And sure, that’s fine, but he’s also started about 30 games at this point. And he’s also almost 28. How much do you really expect him to improve?

I’m not saying that. But you have to at least admit that he has started almost all of those games under less than ideal circumstances. Add in this year and his knee injury now being said to have effected his play. Are you not at least interested to see what he can do with a full offseason as the starter and fully healthy. 

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6 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I’m not saying that. But you have to at least admit that he has started almost all of those games under less than ideal circumstances. Add in this year and his knee injury now being said to have effected his play. Are you not at least interested to see what he can do with a full offseason as the starter and fully healthy. 

 

As I said in another post, who’s to say we stay relatively healthy next year? It was the WR corps this year, but our OL health was immaculate. What if a crucial player goes down there and JB, who has proven to hold onto the ball for a very long time, doesn’t have that same extended window to throw?

 

Am I interested in seeing how he does? Eh. I mean, I do think it’s likely he’s the starter next year, and I do think he’ll do at least somewhat better fully healthy, at least compared to right now (although who’s to say he stays fully healthy?) but I don’t see this impressive jump taking place.

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21 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I’m so tired of this excuse. Learning in a classroom and taking reps in practice are not the same as actually applying it in game. Everyone says the game speed is very different. There have been plenty of players who have blown people away in practice and suck in real game action. 
 

I know this is a horrible example but as a student I can practice a speech presentation 1,000 times but once I get in front of a class of 200 it doesn’t matter. 
 

Practice is not the same as actual game action. 

Why do we waste the money to have him coached by Tom House? Isn't that classroom and practice?

What I'm tired of is 'He's hurt', 'no healthy receivers', 'No decent receivers', 'no open receivers', 'OL has regressed', was put in 2 bad situations', '2017 doesn't count', 'AV cost us 2-3 loss and was no cause of JB', 'Hines fumble cost us the TN game', etc. 

 

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2 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I’m so tired of this excuse. Learning in a classroom and taking reps in practice are not the same as actually applying it in game. Everyone says the game speed is very different. There have been plenty of players who have blown people away in practice and suck in real game action. 
 

I know this is a horrible example but as a student I can practice a speech presentation 1,000 times but once I get in front of a class of 200 it doesn’t matter. 
 

Practice is not the same as actual game action. 

 

1 hour ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I’m not saying that. But you have to at least admit that he has started almost all of those games under less than ideal circumstances. Add in this year and his knee injury now being said to have effected his play. Are you not at least interested to see what he can do with a full offseason as the starter and fully healthy. 

 

Talk about excuses people are tired of ... :pkb:

 

There is always going to be something, it's never going to be "ideal circumstances".  I would argue that circumstances have benefited him more than hindered him:

 

- Drafted by New England and getting a few games of real game experience while learning from Brady & Belichick for a year.

 

- Going to Indy where he gets a full year of real game experience ... even if it wasn't in the current system it was still experience, learning, and plenty of time to fully acclimate to the speed of the NFL. Basically a free year of starting experience with very little expectation.

 

- He gets a full off season learn the new system, then gets a full season of learning not only the system but watching and learning from a 2nd elite QB.

 

- Then he gets another full off season with all the the first string reps in the same system knowing there is a real possibility he may have to play at least some. 

 

Has he had a perfect situation? No ... Has he had some obstacles? Yes ... but welcome to the NFL; how many rookie QBs/new starting QBs would kill to get (or have had) the benefit of these kind of circumstances (it's crazy how good his road/circumstances to starting was comparatively). He's had the time, he's learned from the best (both coaches and players), he's played more than enough games ... He is what he is: A good back up and a below average starter. 

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That was a good write up Superman, Agree 100%. I  feel it's time to move on from Brissett. he's had 2 chances now in the nfl and he hasn't gotten the job done either time. I also think we aren't going to have a Manning or Luck caliber qb for a while again, but we definitely need someone better than Brissett. 

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Our staff knows his limitations. In all fairness we can’t really listen to Frank, Nick and Marcus for the future regarding JB. He is the hand they were dealt. They do like him and they don’t throw their guys under the bus. . I maintain we listen to all of Ballard’s interviews coming soon up to the draft. He is paid to be the “bad guy”.  He won’t throw JB under the bus either but he will use a sentence that begins with “Look” and it will probably show us the direction he is headed. 

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13 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I’m not saying that. But you have to at least admit that he has started almost all of those games under less than ideal circumstances. Add in this year and his knee injury now being said to have effected his play. Are you not at least interested to see what he can do with a full offseason as the starter and fully healthy. 

 

Why don't you think we can evaluate a QB who doesn't have ideal circumstances?

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11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Why don't you think we can evaluate a QB who doesn't have ideal circumstances?

I'm not saying you can't evaluate him under less than ideal circumstances, but you have to admit, they the criticism of JB is beyond normal evaluation.  He may not be the next Franchise Elite QB but he is definitely not garbage.  To hear people say Curtis Painter was better or that he will be in the XFL next year is just plain stupid.

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9 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I'm not saying you can't evaluate him under less than ideal circumstances, but you have to admit, they the criticism of JB is beyond normal evaluation.  He may not be the next Franchise Elite QB but he is definitely not garbage.  To hear people say Curtis Painter was better or that he will be in the XFL next year is just plain stupid.

 

Who’s calling him garbage?? Who’s saying that he’s worse than Painter?

 

Man, I kind of just think you’re taking any form of criticism towards JB and somehow misconstrue it as people thinking he’s garbage/trash/etc.

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21 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Why don't you think we can evaluate a QB who doesn't have ideal circumstances?

That's the thing I don't get too. And I've seen it both ways BTW by the same people here - "Jacoby didn't have great weapons so are we sure we can evaluate him fairly?" and at the same time "Tua had so many great weapons, are we sure we can evaluate him fairly?"... so lets be clear then... what is the exact situation where we can evaluate a QB? We can't evaluate them when they don't have weapons, we can't evaluate them when they have great weapons... the argument just flips whichever way feels right at the moment. 

 

So yeah... having weapons matters in some ways, having trust in your weapons matters in some ways, this doesn't mean you cannot evaluate the QB in the dozens of other ways in which it does not matter who the weapon is and you simply have to make the throw to whoever the receiver is and those are the huge majority of the cases. 

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7 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I'm not saying you can't evaluate him under less than ideal circumstances, but you have to admit, they the criticism of JB is beyond normal evaluation.  He may not be the next Franchise Elite QB but he is definitely not garbage.  To hear people say Curtis Painter was better or that he will be in the XFL next year is just plain stupid.

 

I completely disagree. I think JB is coddled beyond what's normal by a lot of people.

 

As for the extremes that you stated at the end of this post, let's dismiss them and just talk about JB as a QB. He's not garbage, he's not worse than Painter, and he won't be in the XFL next year. Let's just talk about his abilities and projection as an NFL starter, based on what we know about him. 

 

So what's unfair about that kind of evaluation?

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8 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Who’s calling him garbage?? Who’s saying that he’s worse than Painter?

 

Man, I kind of just think you’re taking any form of criticism towards JB and somehow misconstrue it as people thinking he’s garbage/trash/etc.

I promise I am not.  I have heard people in a thread i made about QB comparisons compare him to Painter.  I just think it is okay to think he is not elite but to compare him to garbage or say he won't be in the league in a year is crazy.

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I completely disagree. I think JB is coddled beyond what's normal by a lot of people.

 

As for the extremes that you stated at the end of this post, let's dismiss them and just talk about JB as a QB. He's not garbage, he's not worse than Painter, and he won't be in the XFL next year. Let's just talk about his abilities and projection as an NFL starter, based on what we know about him. 

 

So what's unfair about that kind of evaluation?

I actually have no issue with that.  I just felt that we having being having that conversation in the forum.

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

That's the thing I don't get too. And I've seen it both ways BTW by the same people here - "Jacoby didn't have great weapons so are we sure we can evaluate him fairly?" and at the same time "Tua had so many great weapons, are we sure we can evaluate him fairly?"... so lets be clear then... what is the exact situation where we can evaluate a QB? We can't evaluate them when they don't have weapons, we can't evaluate them when they have great weapons... the argument just flips whichever way feels right at the moment. 

 

So yeah... having weapons matters in some ways, having trust in your weapons matters in some ways, this doesn't mean you cannot evaluate the QB in the dozens of other ways in which it does not matter who the weapon is and you simply have to make the throw to whoever the receiver is and those are the huge majority of the cases. 

 

Exactly the point I'm driving at. If we can only evaluate a QB who has ideal circumstances, then how is it that we're evaluating all these QBs who have terrible circumstances? How did we evaluate Carson Wentz or Josh Allen? How did we evaluate Cam Newton, who only played one year of D1? What about Lamar Jackson? How many people see Ryan Tannehill's present in Josh Rosen's future?

 

There's no such thing as ideal circumstances. And limiting true evaluation to specific circumstances is not a real thing. You take the information you have and make an informed evaluation and projection. It's not easy, but that's how it goes.

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44 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

but you have to admit, they the criticism of JB is beyond normal evaluation.  He may not be the next Franchise Elite QB but he is definitely not garbage

 

If it feels like that, you can blame Reich and Ballard for the reaction.  They built Brissett up into something he wasn't.  Six months ago few Colts fans thought he was a franchise QB, but then Luck retires and Frank is praising Brissett as a top end QB and wonderful human being  - the kind of guy you want your daughter to marry.  Ballard gives him the contract and calls him the greatest leader since George Patton, etc.  Had they not done this, had they just said, okay, Jacoby's gonna get a chance and we'll see what happens, Brissett wouldn't be receiving the same type of the negative reaction he's receiving.  The average Colt fan would have thought, okay, Brissett filled in the best he could in a difficult situation, it didn't work, it's time to draft a QB.  Instead, based on the illusion Frank and Ballard created, Colts fans are critiquing him as a failed franchise QB or failed high draft pick, something he never was.  

 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

That's the thing I don't get too. And I've seen it both ways BTW by the same people here - "Jacoby didn't have great weapons so are we sure we can evaluate him fairly?" and at the same time "Tua had so many great weapons, are we sure we can evaluate him fairly?"... so lets be clear then... what is the exact situation where we can evaluate a QB? We can't evaluate them when they don't have weapons, we can't evaluate them when they have great weapons... the argument just flips whichever way feels right at the moment. 

 

So yeah... having weapons matters in some ways, having trust in your weapons matters in some ways, this doesn't mean you cannot evaluate the QB in the dozens of other ways in which it does not matter who the weapon is and you simply have to make the throw to whoever the receiver is and those are the huge majority of the cases. 

I agree.   Don't forget, Brissett has had one of the best O-lines in the league this season.  That is a great weapon to have.  

 

I think he can be evaluated pretty well by fans because his flaws are the same as they were 8 years ago.  He doesn't read the field well.   He stares down receivers.  He holds the ball to long.  He doesn't anticipate the routes.  These aren't things you see QB's change.   At least not often.  I don't recall any.  Many of the excuses could be applied to any under-performing QB in the league.   Mariotta, Rosen, Winton and any other.   Let's bring him in and see what the coaches can do with them.   Then we can see how they improved next season.   I don't want to do that either.   I think we can tell who he is after 31 games.  

 

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