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Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

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10 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

 I see 2 blue chip candidates

 

Blue Chip seems like a much higher bar

 

Love isnt a blue chip

 

Eason isnt a blue chip

 

those two are not as pro ready but they could be as good as the others down the road. 

 

its hard to say where tua where go, it will probably depend on how he recovers between now and the draft.  i probably would not trade up for him but would be tempted if hes there when we pick

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I do believe Luck will return to playing football again. He's only 30 yrs old and antsy b/c football is his passion and besides being Mr Mom can only last so long.

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4 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

Am I sold on him?  No.  But I think he probably deserves some more time.  We’ve had a ton of key injuries this year, etc.  I just hope this doesn’t drag out for an extended period of time.

 

That said, genuine franchise QBs don’t exactly grow on trees.

 

Do you think it's possible to evaluate JB fairly based on the circumstances he's been in so far?

 

Separate from that, if you evaluate your team's QB and believe he's slightly above average, but you understand that replacing him is not a guarantee of improvement, how do you proceed?

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I was just gonna say that I would love for everyone to go to their podcast and listen to the latest podcast from stampede blue.  It is about 2 hours and he discusses JB and his thoughts.  He also brings in Pat McAfee to share his thoughts on Jacoby.

 

They both believe that next year is truly the make or break year for him.  They believe that Ballard and company will go offensive in draft, get players hopefully healthy and roll with JB next year.  If he sucks it up next year, then they move on with the a hopefully pretty good team and go and get their next QB.

 

I say all this to say that there are people that are plugged in that feel he is gonna get another shot next year to prove he can be the future at QB.  But then again, there are also plugged in people that feel that Ballard is gonna do whatever it takes to draft a qb this year.

 

I think we can all agree... WE HAVE NOT IDEA WHAT BALLARD IS GONNA DO, LOL?!?

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19 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

I do believe Luck will return to playing football again. He's only 30 yrs old and antsy b/c football is his passion and besides being Mr Mom can only last so long.

 

One of several and the others don't involve imminent injury. 

I don't really see it. I'm guessing for how ever long he wrestles with his choice, the 100 million made it easy to just move on. And this should probably be my only real point, right here. He's been retired for like 3 months. He's not sick of that yet..

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2 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

 WE HAVE NOT IDEA WHAT BALLARD IS GONNA DO, LOL?!?

 

This is kinda right. But I do think it's safe to assume Jacoby's rope with the front office is longer than it is with us fans. I'm personally not sold, but I get that there's not super obvious better choices.

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7 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

This is kinda right. But I do think it's safe to assume Jacoby's rope with the front office is longer than it is with us fans. I'm personally not sold, but I get that there's not super obvious better choices.

When it impacts the fans and ticket sales, the rope from the FO gets shorter. Small town teams like Indy need sell outs. I'd probably say his rope is longer with Reich than Ballard, and longer with Ballard than Irsay.

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Do you think it's possible to evaluate JB fairly based on the circumstances he's been in so far?

 

Separate from that, if you evaluate your team's QB and believe he's slightly above average, but you understand that replacing him is not a guarantee of improvement, how do you proceed?

 

It’s a great question.  Most such decisions entail risk.  And, personally, I think it’s more common in the NFL to underestimating the risk of playing it safe by sticking with the slightly above average guys....and/or overestimating the risk of going in a different direction.

 

Of course, all of this has to be evaluated in the context of what’s possible rather than what would be ideal.  My kids think the Colts just need to go get Joe Burro — no matter how many times I explain to them that it’s not quite that simple.

 

So, I don’t have a good feel for what our alternatives are at this point.  It’s entirely possible that Ballard & Co. feel like we don’t have any better near-term options.  I have a high degree of trust in CB to make the best decision.  But I do fear (just because it’s so common) that we’ll just be waiting and waiting for Jacoby to reach his potential that they’re so certain is there.

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3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Do you think it's possible to evaluate JB fairly based on the circumstances he's been in so far?

 

Separate from that, if you evaluate your team's QB and believe he's slightly above average, but you understand that replacing him is not a guarantee of improvement, how do you proceed?

 

Yes, you can evaluate JB fairly at this point.  He may not have the most glamourous receivers but he does have a damn good line and running game.  He has plenty of opportunities to make the read and deliver the pass. He simply fails to do this consistently, unless he is spoon fed by Reich.

 

The narrative that he is anything more than one of the top 5 worst quarterbacks in the league is crazy talk.  PFF had him ranked 26th a month ago, but even that is conservative considering they had him above Tannehill and Pittsburg is now playing Hodges.  I concur with them that he is around the 28th best starting QB in the league.  If we include backups I think he is around 30 to 32.  This makes the decision much easier.

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19 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

It’s a great question.  Most such decisions entail risk.  And, personally, I think it’s more common in the NFL to underestimating the risk of playing it safe by sticking with the slightly above average guys....and/or overestimating the risk of going in a different direction.

 

Of course, all of this has to be evaluated in the context of what’s possible rather than what would be ideal.  My kids think the Colts just need to go get Joe Burro — no matter how many times I explain to them that it’s not quite that simple.

 

So, I don’t have a good feel for what our alternatives are at this point.  It’s entirely possible that Ballard & Co. feel like we don’t have any better near-term options.  I have a high degree of trust in CB to make the best decision.  But I do fear (just because it’s so common) that we’ll just be waiting and waiting for Jacoby to reach his potential that they’re so certain is there.

 

What I'm getting at, though, is that regardless of his circumstances, it's possible to evaluate a QB on the basis of his performance, abilities, traits, and perceived potential to improve. That's my viewpoint.

 

Of course, the rougher the circumstances and the greater the number of variables, the more complicated the evaluation becomes. But while the receivers haven't been great, we can still look at JB and see what he does well and what he doesn't do well, we can reach reasonable conclusions about why he excels or struggles in certain areas, and we can project whether he can reasonably improve and become a player worthy of an investment of time and money, and worthy of building around. Sure, it's somewhat complicated, but it's not all that difficult, IMO.

 

What the Colts do at QB in the offseason will depend, to a large degree, on their evaluation of JB. I am confident that they will not say 'well, JB had a rough set of circumstances, let's wait and see what he does next year.' If they strongly feel that he's good enough to build around, that will affect how seriously they pursue other options at the position. But if they aren't sold on him, I don't think they'll just say 'let's give him another year, let's give him another year.' 

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10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What I'm getting at, though, is that regardless of his circumstances, it's possible to evaluate a QB on the basis of his performance, abilities, traits, and perceived potential to improve. That's my viewpoint.

 

Of course, the rougher the circumstances and the greater the number of variables, the more complicated the evaluation becomes. But while the receivers haven't been great, we can still look at JB and see what he does well and what he doesn't do well, we can reach reasonable conclusions about why he excels or struggles in certain areas, and we can project whether he can reasonably improve and become a player worthy of an investment of time and money, and worthy of building around. Sure, it's somewhat complicated, but it's not all that difficult, IMO.

 

What the Colts do at QB in the offseason will depend, to a large degree, on their evaluation of JB. I am confident that they will not say 'well, JB had a rough set of circumstances, let's wait and see what he does next year.' If they strongly feel that he's good enough to build around, that will affect how seriously they pursue other options at the position. But if they aren't sold on him, I don't think they'll just say 'let's give him another year, let's give him another year.' 

 

I hope you’ll be proven right.  I fear you won’t.

 

I will say that teams like JAX and TEN had more invested in their high first-round picks Bortles and Mariota than the Colts do in JB, who we traded for in a moment of immediate need.

 

That said, it just seems more common in the league to wait too long based on a belief that a player’s full potential is high and just around the corner.

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48 minutes ago, bhougland said:

 

Yes, you can evaluate JB fairly at this point.  He may not have the most glamourous receivers but he does have a damn good line and running game.  He has plenty of opportunities to make the read and deliver the pass. He simply fails to do this consistently, unless he is spoon fed by Reich.

 

The narrative that he is anything more than one of the top 5 worst quarterbacks in the league is crazy talk.  PFF had him ranked 26th a month ago, but even that is conservative considering they had him above Tannehill and Pittsburg is now playing Hodges.  I concur with them that he is around the 28th best starting QB in the league.  If we include backups I think he is around 30 to 32.  This makes the decision much easier.

In their latest ranking he was 29th out of 30 ranked QBs. There were several QBs that they didn't rank because they had too few games. 

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3 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

I hope you’ll be proven right.  I fear you won’t.

 

I will say that teams like JAX and TEN had more invested in their high first-round picks Bortles and Mariota than the Colts do in JB, who we traded for in a moment of immediate need.

 

That said, it just seems more common in the league to wait too long based on a belief that a player’s full potential is high and just around the corner.

 

If the Colts' staff thinks JB is better than I do, you might be right. We'll see. There's also an opportunity cost evaluation to consider, as in, how much are they willing to spend/give up to add another QB right now? So there's a lot to figure out.

 

For the Jags and Titans, there are a couple of factors there. First, they used high firsts, and in the Titans case, they moved up, to get those guys. They were committed to playing those situations out over several years. They've also been looking for QBs for a decade, or longer. And both teams also had a measure of success with those guys; just two years ago, Bortles had a decent season and they went to the AFCCG with him. 

 

The Colts never presented JB as the next franchise QB. He's just a guy they liked who wound up being pushed into the starting role. They won't be as patient with him as the Titans were with Mariota, for instance.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

If the Colts' staff thinks JB is better than I do, you might be right. We'll see. There's also an opportunity cost evaluation to consider, as in, how much are they willing to spend/give up to add another QB right now? So there's a lot to figure out.

 

For the Jags and Titans, there are a couple of factors there. First, they used high firsts, and in the Titans case, they moved up, to get those guys. They were committed to playing those situations out over several years. They've also been looking for QBs for a decade, or longer. And both teams also had a measure of success with those guys; just two years ago, Bortles had a decent season and they went to the AFCCG with him. 

 

The Colts never presented JB as the next franchise QB. He's just a guy they liked who wound up being pushed into the starting role. They won't be as patient with him as the Titans were with Mariota, for instance.

There is always an example that will support either sticking with JB as a smart idea, as well as an example of moving on from JB, as a smart idea. Fans tend to use whatever example supports which choice they personally want. Folks tend to cite the current situation with the Steelers as evidence that moving on is a good idea, yet ignore how moving on has served the Browns. There is no one answer fits all.

 

In this, I bow to the braintrust of Reich/Ballard. Frank was a very astute QB, knows what the position takes, and I feel he has a good pulse of what Jacoby brings to the table, both on the field and off, as well as preparation, meetings, practices and so on. I have seen Jacoby look like the guy that could become the long term QB for the Colts, and I have seen him look like a QB that has too low of a ceiling. How much of that is circumstance, is the proof in the pudding. 

 

That said, I believe that the upcoming draft and FA opportunities for the Colts are really important, but every year is really important. I don't think this offseason "defines" Ballard's legacy any more than every year does. They're all extremely important.

 

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23 hours ago, Four2itus said:

There is always an example that will support either sticking with JB as a smart idea, as well as an example of moving on from JB, as a smart idea. Fans tend to use whatever example supports which choice they personally want. Folks tend to cite the current situation with the Steelers as evidence that moving on is a good idea, yet ignore how moving on has served the Browns. There is no one answer fits all.

 

In this, I bow to the braintrust of Reich/Ballard. Frank was a very astute QB, knows what the position takes, and I feel he has a good pulse of what Jacoby brings to the table, both on the field and off, as well as preparation, meetings, practices and so on. I have seen Jacoby look like the guy that could become the long term QB for the Colts, and I have seen him look like a QB that has too low of a ceiling. How much of that is circumstance, is the proof in the pudding. 

 

That said, I believe that the upcoming draft and FA opportunities for the Colts are really important, but every year is really important. I don't think this offseason "defines" Ballard's legacy any more than every year does. They're all extremely important.

 

good post

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23 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I don't think this offseason "defines" Ballard's legacy any more than every year does. They're all extremely important.

 

That may be true to an extent ... but if he skips on a QB that's available at one of our top couple picks and instead roles with JB and some mid-round QB and the Colts are mediocre again while the skipped QB goes onto be Very Good or Elite his legacy is cemented.  The only way his legacy/reputation recovers from that is if he finds an equally good QB the next draft or JB leads us to a SB (just typing the second option made me :lol:).

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39 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

That may be true to an extent ... but if he skips on a QB that's available at one of our top couple picks and instead roles with JB and some mid-round QB and the Colts are mediocre again while the skipped QB goes onto be Very Good or Elite his legacy is cemented.  The only way his legacy/reputation recovers from that is if he finds an equally good QB the next draft or JB leads us to a SB (just typing the second option made me :lol:).

There may not be a high media QB available when we pick so trading up it what he would have to do to make you happy?

I am afraid you may be disappointed. 

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There may not be a high media QB available when we pick so trading up it what he would have to do to make you happy?

I am afraid you may be disappointed. 

 

I would want him to trade up if we can realistically get up to a good QB without it costing the whole draft.

 

...BUT ...

 

My post wasn't about what I would or wouldn't do or want ... it was about his legacy and how the OP said this off season would not define his legacy.  I said "IF " a QB was "available"  at one of our first couple of picks and Ballard chose not to choose them, and "IF" the QB he skipped on (notice the word "skipped" ... nothing about trading up)  ended up being a Very Good to Elite QB while he chose to stick with JB or go bargain hunting  and we ended up mediocre again than his legacy would be cemented.

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3 hours ago, esmort said:

 

I would want him to trade up if we can realistically get up to a good QB without it costing the whole draft.

 

...BUT ...

 

My post wasn't about what I would or wouldn't do or want ... it was about his legacy and how the OP said this off season would not define his legacy.  I said "IF " a QB was "available"  at one of our first couple of picks and Ballard chose not to choose them, and "IF" the QB he skipped on (notice the word "skipped" ... nothing about trading up)  ended up being a Very Good to Elite QB while he chose to stick with JB or go bargain hunting  and we ended up mediocre again than his legacy would be cemented.

If it ends that Ballard don't replace Luck with a great QB I don't know how I would feel about it. 

That's a tough one for any GM to have to face. 

Colts fans have been pretty spoiled in the QB department over the last 20 years. 

One thing we have learned is having elite QB play does not bring championships. 

No matter who the QB is, winning ballgames is the final issue. 

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I think they'll trade JB before the draft or after depending if the QB they're after is available. I don't think JB is the answer for this team.

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Interesting to see the excuses for all his overthrows in the game tonight.  Again, he is not good enough as a starter to win a SB or even a meaningful game.

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I did not see a QB tonight, that should and will counting 21.5 M against the 2020 CAP. 
 

Insane and I don’t care how much cap space the Colts have. 

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I’ve slowly but surely been walked to the edge by JB’s play the last 5-6 weeks. I was all for giving him time to improve, but to be frank, ever since his injury, he’s not been the same. And that had magnified all his other issues. Sad to say, this cheese has turned, I would not mind seeing Hoyer or Kelly finish this out but I know that’s not happening, not unless JB goes down

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1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I’ve slowly but surely been walked to the edge by JB’s play the last 5-6 weeks. I was all for giving him time to improve, but to be frank, ever since his injury, he’s not been the same. And that had magnified all his other issues. Sad to say, this cheese has turned, I would not mind seeing Hoyer or Kelly finish this out but I know that’s not happening, not unless JB goes down

Give me Kelly.  I’d rather see Jacoby than Hoyer.  At least with Jacoby you could say he’s young and your still evaluating.  There is no upside to playing Hoyer at all.  There is also no really good reason for not seeing what you have in Kelly now either.  I don’t think Kelly is answer but I do think the Colts need to findout what they do or don’t have in him.

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Jacoby was horrible. Time to evaluate Kelly to see what we have. Kelly could have lead us to the same result tonight (or at least one extra score).

 

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So, throughout the broadcast, as bad as Jacoby looked, you kept hearing Booger and the Monday Night Crew commenting on the fact that he is the Franchise guy. That Reich said he is his guy going forward. 
 

Now, I will be the first to admit that I have been a staunch JB supporter, but he is not making that easy, lol. 
 

My question is, after last night is this still possible. Is JB just that bad, he seems to have regressed horribly since the knee injury. Could having played this poorly and slumped so badly motivate him in the offseason to get better. I guess what I’m curious of is is the media plugged in and what they hearing about the belief is JB truth or smoke screen?

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1 minute ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

So, throughout the broadcast, as bad as Jacoby looked, you kept hearing Booger and the Monday Night Crew commenting on the fact that he is the Franchise guy. That Reich said he is his guy going forward. 
 

Now, I will be the first to admit that I have been a staunch JB supporter, but he is not making that easy, lol. 
 

My question is, after last night is this still possible. Is JB just that bad, he seems to have regressed horribly since the knee injury. Could having played this poorly and slumped so badly motivate him in the offseason to get better. I guess what I’m curious of is is the media plugged in and what they hearing about the belief is JB truth or smoke screen?

Im thinking its a smoke screen. However, I think the team likes JB but are/will be looking for other answers. Lets face it, we were 5-2 before his injury and he's looked panicked since. Question is, fully healthy, with a fully healthy team, is JB the guy? Regardless, you don't want to tip other teams anymore than you have too. So hence, the smoke screen.

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The guy can’t play.   They gave this stiff an additional 28 mil to play a next year, and are probably stuck with this no future CFL caliber player.

 

But he’s the same player he was when we were 5 and 2, and he was never good.  Three of the 6 wins we scored less than 20 points and the running game was great.  
 

These guys will no longer be able to get up for a game with JB at QB, the only players that will will be contract year players and no FAs will sign without overpay.

 

This org is screwed.  He should never take another starting snap.

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Don't know what's going to happen, but I've made the decision not to watch another game on TV with Brissett as QB. I was willing to let this team groom a QB behind Brissett for a year. Not anymore. If Brissett is the QB next year, I will only watch the Colts on gametracker.

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So what happened to all of this “Veteran leadership” and Methodical preparation” we were supposed to get from Hoyer? Haven’t seen an iota of it, I get he was supposedly the best option available at the time, but wow looks like more money wasted to me:dunno:

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I’m not sure JB can improve in the areas that need improvement. Like staying on your first read too long or being terrible vs the blitz. That’s talent QBs just have or not. 

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11 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

So, throughout the broadcast, as bad as Jacoby looked, you kept hearing Booger and the Monday Night Crew commenting on the fact that he is the Franchise guy. That Reich said he is his guy going forward. 
 

Now, I will be the first to admit that I have been a staunch JB supporter, but he is not making that easy, lol. 
 

My question is, after last night is this still possible. Is JB just that bad, he seems to have regressed horribly since the knee injury. Could having played this poorly and slumped so badly motivate him in the offseason to get better. I guess what I’m curious of is is the media plugged in and what they hearing about the belief is JB truth or smoke screen?

Booger a nice guy but his commentary is a joke ,mispronounces words .He is horrible 

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