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Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)


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the patriots have the best defense in the league. i think its easier to just find a better QB than it is to build a #1 defense, plus brady is better than JB and its not close 

 

its hard to keep a great defense together too they usually dont last that long

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Yep...he creates posts daily that discuss the QB position. Even the thread about wanting to draft a certain QB tie back to the idea of giving JB more time.

Okay So as I watch the Niners game I am noticing that Jimmy G is operating the game in a way thenReich and the Colts want JB to. I have the a huge take...   Jimmy G is no better than JB

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3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Just curious.  When the PATS had an elite offense, how often did they throw the ball down field?

 

Please, no yards per pass attempt stat, because it would be skewed with all of the YAC Edelman and Gronk, got.

 

BTW, I heard that all 10 PATS wins this year have come from holding opponents to below 14 points.  

 

We probably would have beat HOU if we did that.


Please ignore any metric that counters my argument? All QBs benefit greatly from YAC.

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14 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

regarding jacoby, he has won when on a good team that rushes for 200 yards and the defense holds to 20 points or so.  i think most QBs are going to win when they get that kind of support

 

he lost when he was on a bad team in 2017, he doesnt seem to move the needle much himself

 

Were you responding to me?  You might have clicked on the wrong person, because this wasn't an answer to my question.

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3 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Were you responding to me?  You might have clicked on the wrong person, because this wasn't an answer to my question.

well i never said win loss record is what matters tbh, you just put that out as a general statement as if everyone agreed 

 

Jacoby doesnt actually have a winning record either

 

 

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18 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

I do

 

A lot of Rookie QBs who start, have probably been drafted by bad teams so it's not exactly surprising. This isn't a normal situation. We're not the Cardinals throwing Rosen to the lions behind a wonky O line, of the Kizer led Browns. 

 

The roster strength is much better, notably the O line, and as many have stated they aren't calling for a rookie to start, but give Brissett another season and let a guy sit. 

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15 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:


Please ignore any metric that counters my argument? All QBs benefit greatly from YAC.

This is from a couple of weeks ago:

 

Colts no. 3 in YAC%. Patriots are not in the top 10. Jacoby benefits more of YAC than Brady. 

 

And BTW Brady has not been as great as usual this season either. 

 

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6 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

well i never said win loss record is what matters tbh, you just put that out as a general statement as if everyone agreed 

 

Jacoby doesnt actually have a winning record either

 

 

I'm not saying that either. But many here are in support of Jacoby Brissett.  It's as though, because we're winning in 2019, that means JB is good.  It doesn't make sense.

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9 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

A lot of Rookie QBs who start, have probably been drafted by bad teams so it's not exactly surprising. This isn't a normal situation. We're not the Cardinals throwing Rosen to the lions behind a wonky O line, of the Kizer led Browns. 

 

The roster strength is much better, notably the O line, and as many have stated they aren't calling for a rookie to start, but give Brissett another season and let a guy sit. 

thank you! our situation is very good I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we could start a rookie QB next year and have success.

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7 hours ago, coltsva said:

Considering the lack of defense, lack of running game, and inept coaching during Luck's career, I'd say Luck was pretty darn close to Elite.

Yep, he had that potential, it seems. No evidence to show it, though. He could probably have shown it this year, without having any doubters. But as it is, we don't have evidence that Luck was a 'generational talent' as defined by 'regularly compet[ing] for SBs'

It's unfortunate, to be sure. 

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14 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is from a couple of weeks ago:

 

Colts no. 3 in YAC%. Patriots are not in the top 10. Jacoby benefits more of YAC than Brady. 

 

And BTW Brady has not been as great as usual this season either. 

 

 

I mean the dude is 42... it had to happen eventually right?

 

Right?

 

Please tell me it's happening finally, the nightmare is over.

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2 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Yep, he had that potential, it seems. No evidence to show it, though. He could probably have shown it this year, without having any doubters. But as it is, we don't have evidence that Luck was a 'generational talent' as defined by 'regularly compet[ing] for SBs'

It's unfortunate, to be sure. 

yeah cause having MVP like stats on garbage teams with one of the worst HC/GM combos ever dosen't prove anything. :thinking:

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

My only argument for it is that it would be an immediate improvement over Brissett.   I'm also not too confident in a QB that would be drafted late in the first or second round.   

I fear Brissett as the starter next season.  

 

That is not reassuring to me.   It means the season is not going well.  Another wasted season of a great O-line and a good defense.   

 

55 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

no one is patient they wanna win right this second and for some reason they automatically think rookie QB = lost season. I dont really understand why tho

 

I understand why(rookie QBs usually are not great), but I also don't see much of an alternative. I think it boils down to a simple calculation - you might not have another choice. 

 

We are in the situation we are in. We cannot change anything about Brissett or about Luck retiring. This is what we have, this is the team we have. We are not in a great QB situation for next year whatever we do. Saying "I don't want to waste one more year of our good OLine and good team" doesn't accomplish anything.  I don't want to waste another year either... but the reality is there is no easy solution and among many unsatisfactory solutions this might be the best one. Franchise QBs don't come available in FA or via trade, you cannot expect to get one there. So the question is - do you want to waste that one more year with just Brissett... after which you very likely still won't have a solution at QB again, or do you want to actually try to address it and at least get on your way to developing a franchise QB ASAP? 

 

To me the answer is quite clear - if you like a QB in the draft and you think he can be a franchise QB with development... go get him. The only reason to not draft a QB IMO is if you actually don't like any of them(or can't get to a position to draft one if you like only some of the really highly ranked ones). 

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2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I mean the dude is 42... it had to happen eventually right?

 

Right?

 

Please tell me it's happening finally, the nightmare is over.

Can't. He's still good. He's just not as good as he used to be. I wouldn't be shocked if he steamrolls over the league in the playoffs again though. 

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3 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

I understand why(rookie QBs usually are not great), but I also don't see much of an alternative. I think it boils down to a simple calculation - you might not have another choice. 

 

We are in the situation we are in. We cannot change anything about Brissett or about Luck retiring. This is what we have, this is the team we have. We are not in a great QB situation for next year whatever we do. Saying "I don't want to waste one more year of our good OLine and good team" doesn't accomplish anything.  I don't want to waste another year either... but the reality is there is no easy solution and among many unsatisfactory solutions this might be the best one. Franchise QBs don't come available in FA or via trade, you cannot expect to get one. So the question is - do you want to waste that one more year with just Brissett... after which you very likely still won't have a solution at QB again, or do you want to actually try to address it and at least get on your way to developing a franchise QB ASAP? 

 

To me the answer is quite clear - if you like a QB in the draft and you think he can be a franchise QB with development... go get him. The only reason to not draft a QB IMO is if you actually don't like any of them(or can't get to a position to draft one if you like only some of the really highly ranked ones). 

but it's like SCC most rookie QBs are in a bad situation so I get it. we however imo are not in a bad situation I could see one having early success like Wilson did in SEA.

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3 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Not at all. I am looking at numbers. Two sets of numbers. One set is the small percentage of QB's available to satisfy fans, and the other is the length of time fans are willing to wait to once again acquire an elite QB. Those numbers for me, define that JB is a franchise QB, while the team continues to build around him. Time will define the length of time he will be under center for this team. Now is not the time to be knee jerking the QB position. 

Do you define him as the QB for the franchise till they find someone better? That would be different than what most consider a franchise QB.

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Andrew had a year to think through his decision and watch his teammates struggle without him.  Like Gronk, he did the right thing for himself and no one can blame him. What is on the table is if he is convinced he can leave football, the locker room and playing the game, forever. This is not in anyway dishing that his decision at the time was a correct one. The question is going forward is that still what he wants for himself. 

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I say you stick with Brissett,  move Kelly up to the #2 QB and get rid of Hoyer. Since you're talking about drafting a "developmental" QB then draft that guy as QB #3 to compete with Kelly and Brissett.  We'll just be looking at carrying 3 QB on the roster next year.   Also vastly improve the speed  and athleticism of the WR Corps and the depth.  I think TE is going to need to be addressed also.    I'm not ready to give up a bunch of picks yet.   Make the team around the guy even better than before and carry 3 QB.   Personally I think Kelly is going to turn out to be what we are looking for but in case that doesn't happen we've got the other guy who we feel strongly about.   Give Brissett another shot, but make sure you leave a bunch of heat on his behind to get his stuff together. 

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I’m not saying brissett is a top 5 or 10 Qb but he has played winning football for us. It’s a lot of different ways to win in the NFL at the end of the day a win is a win. Special teams , drops, injuries  etc... has really been what has us in the situation that we are in. A lot of y’all are just not used to watching grind it out football and are still spoiled from Peyton and semi Luck era of throwing 300+ yards a game etc... it doesn’t matter how we win as long as we win. But I’m not willing to blow up team and tank to get top Qb in draft or trade a ton of picks for a chance to draft one. 

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2 hours ago, bhougland said:

 

I agree.  Leadership is a funny because it can be so easy to lose your influence if your performance doesn't match your words. The rah rah guys can easily become the vocal leaders for the team.  However, the moment they start letting the team down then their words fall on deaf ears.  Jacoby was a vocal leader last year, but he was never counted on to actually win the games.  He was more of a peer that spoke up and tried to get the team fired up.  

 

Now he is the top dog because of his position, but position alone won't let you keep your leadership status.  He has to let his play on the field speak as well, and I think he is a tipping point with both the fans and the team.

I love JB as a person, but yes, he has to lead on the field as well. At the end of the day, it's a business. Nice people that don't perform get replaced all the time. 

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35 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

I understand why(rookie QBs usually are not great), but I also don't see much of an alternative. I think it boils down to a simple calculation - you might not have another choice. 

 

We are in the situation we are in. We cannot change anything about Brissett or about Luck retiring. This is what we have, this is the team we have. We are not in a great QB situation for next year whatever we do. Saying "I don't want to waste one more year of our good OLine and good team" doesn't accomplish anything.  I don't want to waste another year either... but the reality is there is no easy solution and among many unsatisfactory solutions this might be the best one. Franchise QBs don't come available in FA or via trade, you cannot expect to get one there. So the question is - do you want to waste that one more year with just Brissett... after which you very likely still won't have a solution at QB again, or do you want to actually try to address it and at least get on your way to developing a franchise QB ASAP? 

 

To me the answer is quite clear - if you like a QB in the draft and you think he can be a franchise QB with development... go get him. The only reason to not draft a QB IMO is if you actually don't like any of them(or can't get to a position to draft one if you like only some of the really highly ranked ones). 

 

Agree...and have been saying the same thing for a while. When you lay out the current scenario and ways it could play out...drafting a QB is absolutely no-brainer...especially from a risk/reward analysis. If you wait another year to draft one...you end up in a scenario where you are either committing long-term to JB with a hefty salary (he's not signing another short-term extension)...OR having a retread QB (like a Hoyer) compete with a rookie to start (which is a scenario rebuilding teams do...not ones who can compete).  

 

But if you draft one now...you have an entire year of development for a rookie with long-term upside...and a viable starter in JB. And then...(hopefully) that rookie is ready to take over in 2021.

 

If both fail...you are no worse for wear. 

 

And I think Ballard, a very and analytical GM, sees this as well...and will draft a QB this offseason.

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52 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Do you define him as the QB for the franchise till they find someone better? That would be different than what most consider a franchise QB.

Honestly, I kind of dislike this need to label players in the first place. As you know, a lot of fans have this burning desire to rank/compare/argue players and teams.  

 

My premise is that a QB is either good enough to concentrate on building the team around, or not and they go all out to find that guy. As has been displayed, it is near impossible to build a deep team, and secure a great QB at the same time. So, having said that, in my world, if the guy is good enough to build the team around until a better opportunity presents itself, then he is the franchise guy. This doesn't align with a lot of fans in their thinking, but that's ok. 

 

Jacoby Brissett is my franchise QB, until I see more information. It is easy to say he has regressed, but the injuries and lost time to skill players is pretty damned significant. 

 

It isn't that I have never seen Jacoby behave like a great QB....he has. But he has not overcome the injuries this far....has not been consistent, and defenses are making him show his quality. The Colts will surely know by the end of next season .

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32 minutes ago, stitches said:

Or the QB is actually good. Real good! Remember when everybody expected Carson Wentz to sit behind Sam Bradford for his first year? And instead they just decided to start him from game 1 and Bradford had to force his way out of Philly because of it? 

I do understand where you are coming from.  My fear is that Brissett is just good enough and Reich is comfortable with him that Brissett would start regardless.   I hope I'm wrong.   

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8 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Honestly, I kind of dislike this need to label players in the first place. As you know, a lot of fans have this burning desire to rank/compare/argue players and teams.  

 

My premise is that a QB is either good enough to concentrate on building the team around, or not and they go all out to find that guy. As has been displayed, it is near impossible to build a deep team, and secure a great QB at the same time. So, having said that, in my world, if the guy is good enough to build the team around until a better opportunity presents itself, then he is the franchise guy. This doesn't align with a lot of fans in their thinking, but that's ok. 

 

Jacoby Brissett is my franchise QB, until I see more information. It is easy to say he has regressed, but the injuries and lost time to skill players is pretty damned significant. 

 

It isn't that I have never seen Jacoby behave like a great QB....he has. But he has not overcome the injuries this far....has not been consistent, and defenses are making him show his quality. The Colts will surely know by the end of next season .

I liked your post in that it is a good, reasonable post that makes a lot of sense.  The only think I disagree with with I DON'T think JB is a QB to build a team around.  I don't think he has regressed... in fact I think he has gotten, incrementally, better as the season progresses.  I just think he has reached his ceiling on what he can provide the Colts from the QB position.

 

I do also believe he has another year to show us.  I don't think the Colts are going to trade a lot of draft picks to move up and get someone, I do think they will spend a late first/early 2nd round pick on a QB to develop.  

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Just curious.  When the PATS had an elite offense, how often did they throw the ball down field?

 

Please, no yards per pass attempt stat, because it would be skewed with all of the YAC Edelman and Gronk, got.

 

BTW, I heard that all 10 PATS wins this year have come from holding opponents to below 14 points.  

 

We probably would have beat HOU if we did that.

 

Why does that matter? There's more than one way to have an elite offense. We don't have one right now.

 

And by the way, the Patriots have produced elite offensive numbers in a variety of ways over the years. When Randy Moss was there, they threw the ball all over the field.

 

And yes, if we had a defense that was destroying everyone on the schedule (and the Pats defense is historically good, by the numbers; adjust for strength of opponent and it's not as impressive, but still really good), we probably would have beat the Texans. So does that mean that if our defense is short of historical, then we shouldn't talk about the offense at all? I mean, if we could have scored a measly 21 points, we would have won. This cuts both ways.

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NGS has an "air yards" stat going back to 2016. It tracks the average distance of a QB's targets from the LOS.

 

Brady's average completed air yards:

2016: 6.3

2017: 6.6

2018: 5.6

 

Brissett's average completed air yards:

2019: 4.6

 

 

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10 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

So, I am a huge Brissett fan and like him a lot but i wanted to clear the air on some stuff. 
 

I was listening to the radio the other day and the host stated there was a difference between Franchise QB and Elite QB.
 

There are very few Elite ones in the league today and is what everyone is chasing. Elites are the Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Wilson. They are the generational talents that regularly compete for Superbowls. we had one of these in Manning and Luck. But they are gone and we have to move on. 
 

The other is Franchise. They are Qbs that will win anywhere from 9-12 games a year and occasionally compete for super bowls and go on deep playoff runs. They are the Qb that is really good but not generational. You stay with them because you can’t find anyone better (because elite is so hard to find). These are guys like Ryan, Stafford, Rivers, Dalton, Cousins. If surrounded by enough talent they can look elite at times. 
 

I believe that Brissett is a Franchise QB but probably not elite, based on this. I am okay with that. It is so hard to find a good starting level Qb and damn near impossible to get a generational elite one.  If given support he will take us to the playoffs and maybe a Super Bowl. Don’t take for granted making the playoffs. 

 

what do y’all think?

I'm not reading through this entire thread. But my opinion of JB based off of what we've seen from him this year and 2017 is that he is a backup / fringe starter talent. You do not want that as your franchise QB and you don't want to force that to be your franchise QB. That's how you get stuck with Andy Dalton / Alex Smith as your starter for a decade. Yes there will be some really good seasons, and yes it's playing it safe...but when does playing it safe ever pay off?

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JB has been up and down all season as have the Colts. It is hard to rank him as a QB because he will have 1 good game and then 1 bad game, etc.. Before the season started I used my scale of: bad, below average, average, above average, good, very good, and great and had Brissett ranked as Bad as a starter (around 30th) but a guy who could fill in for a game or 2 and be good. As the season went on through 7 games, I had him as above average (around 15th). I seen him torch Atlanta and Houston for over 300 yards. The only thing that was bad was his YPA, but his TD's to INT ratio was great and so was his red zone efficiency, we were also 5-2. Since his injury he really hasn't played like he had in those 7 games. He had his worst game of the season last Thursday. As of now trying to rank him is a guess for anyone IMO. I am going to wait until the end of the season to get a full season sample size to where I stand with JB. For all we know he may come out and throw for 300 yards and 3 TD's vs the Titans. Then what? It is tough to predict anything at this point with this team.

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12 minutes ago, TheMiz said:

That's how you get stuck with Andy Dalton / Alex Smith as your starter for a decade. Yes there will be some really good seasons, and yes it's playing it safe...but when does playing it safe ever pay off?

True, but the way you state it, is that there are only two ways this can go....the Dalton/Smith thing, or bite the bullet and get the franchise QB.

There is also the Bears/Browns/Dolphins/Cardinals thing, where they are forever searching and reaching. Just trying to add that possibility. Getting rid of, or moving on from JB, does not constitute success, and that challenge is very likely in the short run. 

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Brissett is an average QB and merely a bridge to who we choose in the next year or two. The team is deep in a lot of positions which will win us ball games.  We are a 6 to 10 win team with Brissett depending on health and schedule.  This isn’t completely his fault tho.  The team was being built for Luck. No one anticipated him quitting.  I’m positive Ballard will draft accordingly and do what’s best for the team

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2 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

True, but the way you state it, is that there are only two ways this can go....the Dalton/Smith thing, or bite the bullet and get the franchise QB.

There is also the Bears/Browns/Dolphins/Cardinals thing, where they are forever searching and reaching. Just trying to add that possibility. Getting rid of, or moving on from JB, does not constitute success, and that challenge is very likely in the short run. 

Im not saying you move on from JB just to move on. I'm saying the organization should be looking to improve the position (just like every position). The problem with the Alex Smith / Andy Dalton QB is that you are successful enough that it keeps you from being able to get that true franchise guy because you're winning 8-10 games every year. Also with that level of QB play, you begin to say that getting to the playoffs/making the wild card game is a success. 

Basically staying with these guys is accepting mediocrity because they are "good enough"

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

JB has been up and down all season as have the Colts. It is hard to rank him as a QB because he will have 1 good game and then 1 bad game, etc.. Before the season started I used my scale of: bad, below average, average, above average, good, very good, and great and had Brissett ranked as Bad as a starter (around 30th) but a guy who could fill in for a game or 2 and be good. As the season went on through 7 games, I had him as above average (around 15th). I seen him torch Atlanta and Houston for over 300 yards. The only thing that was bad was his YPA, but his TD's to INT ratio was great and so was his red zone efficiency, we were also 5-2. Since his injury he really hasn't played like he had in those 7 games. He had his worst game of the season last Thursday. As of now trying to rank him is a guess for anyone IMO. I am going to wait until the end of the season to get a full season sample size to where I stand with JB. For all we know he may come out and throw for 300 yards and 3 TD's vs the Titans. Then what? It is tough to predict anything at this point with this team.

To add to this I do not think he has proven he is a franchise QB yet. He has proved he can win games when his defense plays well and we run the ball well. Some QB's can't even do that = the bad one's anyway. The Titans game will show me more as we move along.

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7 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

I think we're going to disagree on this one.

 

If the overall win/loss record is knock against him doesn't that make the 2 Super Bowl wins even better? He is clearly good enough to QB a Super Bowl team - he has 2 rings - so its hard for me to believe hes also the reason they didn't win more games/Super Bowls. 

 

He has 2 Super Bowl MVP awards.

He has 2 Super Bowl wins.

Hes ranked 8th in passing yards.

Hes ranked 8th in passing TDs.

 

Show me anyone in NFL history that has anywhere near that resume that isnt elite. 

 

I would say Eli has been a franchise QB but not an elite QB. Elite was his brother. His 2 SB wins can't be overlooked though. His teams led by him as a starter did beat the Pats twice, that will get him into the Hall of Fame IMO.

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6 hours ago, aaron11 said:

 

there is a very real chance that Jacoby is the QB next year.  i hope they find better but its hard to say where the qbs will go in the draft.  there are going to be some big names hitting free agency too, but it doesnt seem like we are going after Rivers or Brees

Rivers is a loser and Brees  is too old

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10 hours ago, coltsva said:

Completetly disagree on Eli.

 

He has played 15 seasons, but has only made the playoffs 5 times, has only won a playoff game in two seasons, only scored more than 24 points in a playoff game once, overall record as a starter is 116-116. That is a far cry from elite.

For some people (myself included, and this might not be a popular choice) success is measured in championships.  I would rather have Eli's numbers and two rings, then have Peyton's numbers and one ring.  

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5 minutes ago, midwest said:

For some people (myself included, and this might not be a popular choice) success is measured in championships.  I would rather have Eli's numbers and two rings, then have Peyton's numbers and one ring.  

But Peyton has 2 rings so I would take Peyton's career by a mile now. I factor in everything but you are right winning SB's is huge. That is why I was so happy to see Peyton win another in Denver.

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2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Honestly, I kind of dislike this need to label players in the first place. As you know, a lot of fans have this burning desire to rank/compare/argue players and teams.  

 

My premise is that a QB is either good enough to concentrate on building the team around, or not and they go all out to find that guy. As has been displayed, it is near impossible to build a deep team, and secure a great QB at the same time. So, having said that, in my world, if the guy is good enough to build the team around until a better opportunity presents itself, then he is the franchise guy. This doesn't align with a lot of fans in their thinking, but that's ok. 

 

Jacoby Brissett is my franchise QB, until I see more information. It is easy to say he has regressed, but the injuries and lost time to skill players is pretty damned significant. 

 

It isn't that I have never seen Jacoby behave like a great QB....he has. But he has not overcome the injuries this far....has not been consistent, and defenses are making him show his quality. The Colts will surely know by the end of next season .

Gotcha!! :thmup:

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29 minutes ago, midwest said:

For some people (myself included, and this might not be a popular choice) success is measured in championships.  I would rather have Eli's numbers and two rings, then have Peyton's numbers and one ring.  

Also too although rings aren't everything, it seems the media and most fans look at a QB differently when they at least win 2 SB's. I noticed that with Peyton big time in the media and from opposing fans like Pats fans even. They all were like ok he did it twice, now that is impressive. I think it is because not many have done it. You have only 8 QB's that have won 2 as a starter. The other 4 that have won more are Brady (6), Bradshaw (4), Montana (4), and Aikman (3). Out of the 8 that have won 2 SB's, Peyton's resume smokes all of them regarding stats and League MVP's.

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12 minutes ago, midwest said:

For some people (myself included, and this might not be a popular choice) success is measured in championships.  I would rather have Eli's numbers and two rings, then have Peyton's numbers and one ring.  

 I get it, but that's not really me. I'm talking about going 12-4 or 11-5 and being a contender every season. I like it when players and teams "bring it" every week, every year, as opposed to coming up big in a couple spots over 15 years, surrounded by a lot of nothing seasons.

 

I understand as a player you want championships, but as a fan, I want the games in week 15 and 16 to matter, in as many seasons as possible. And to be clear, I am not at all a casual fan. I've been die hard for since the 70's.

 

Also, I am not anti Eli. I like him. I just don't think he's in the elite category.

 

 

 

 

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