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Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)


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Yep...he creates posts daily that discuss the QB position. Even the thread about wanting to draft a certain QB tie back to the idea of giving JB more time.

Okay So as I watch the Niners game I am noticing that Jimmy G is operating the game in a way thenReich and the Colts want JB to. I have the a huge take...   Jimmy G is no better than JB

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1 hour ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

 

Sufficient in this case to me means -- he did his job.  He didn't do more than his job, he didn't do less than his job.   That's more or less the vector Brissett's lived at all year.  Not elite, but he does his job.

 

 

Thanks for the explanation.   It makes sense.  In fact, if he did what was expected of him, that one could say he was great.   Adam V played great on Sunday because he did what we expected him to do.  

 

I think Brissett is an above average/good QB.   You have to know what you have in him and the team he is playing for.  He's efficient and doesn't turn the ball over much.  

 

Just on stats alone, he's slightly above average.  14th in QB rating.  5th in TD % and 12th in INT %.  

 

I want to see what he can do when the WR's get back.  He was great against Houston.  That is one game where it seemed he HAD to be.  All the other games were close and Reich kept it a pretty possession based offense.  

 

I still haven't made a decision on Brissett, but I certain he is the 2020 starter.

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I saw a good comment somebody made on YouTube They mentioned how Jacoby has shown elite traits a few times this year. Just needs to show more of it on a consistent basis. I can’t wait to get all the WR back and see what happens.  We seen a couple of deep tries Sunday which was nice. Even if you don’t connect it still makes the other team team think about it.

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1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Phillip Rivers could have done well to be more 'pretty average' last night-

 

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Throwing 73%, and running it 27%, with 2 guys getting almost 5 yards per carry?

 

Almost glad i couldn't watch the game last night.  That QB stat line looks horrid.

 

 

 

That was all Lynn (or the OC)...they inexplicably went away from Gordon in the 2nd half...despite getting it to a one TD game, where they didn't need to pass.

 

Rivers is toast though...hopefully he hangs it up after this year. KC dropped another easy INT and got the wrong side of a couple of questionable DPIs.

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9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I saw a good comment somebody made on YouTube They mentioned how Jacoby has shown elite traits a few times this year. Just needs to show more of it on a consistent basis. I can’t wait to get all the WR back and see what happens.  We seen a couple of deep tries Sunday which was nice. Even if you don’t connect it still makes the other team team think about it.

I'm not sure what "elite traits" are.   

If it is just making great decisions or making great throws, even most back up QB's do that.   

I think Brissetts ceiling is - Very Good.   Elite isn't even in his sights.  Good thing is that his floor is - Average.  Being careful with the ball keeps him from dropping below average (IMO).

 

 

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19 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

I can post you direct quotes from Frank Reich that say otherwise. I'm not talking about last year. Its irrelevant.

Except it's not.  If you want to look at each season in a vacuum, be my guest.  But it's as lazy as it is an insistence on ignorance.  Context matters and if you don't believe something as simple as well as critical to any logical analysis, then we really don't have much to discuss.  I don't mean to be pretentious about that, but this will go nowhere if context only matters when it's convenient to only some parties to the conversation.

 

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Also, sometimes more pass attempts just means you were behind more often. It doesn't necessarily mean that is what they wanted to do.

This is the Trent Richardson yards per carry all over again.  Stats, trends, etc. should all be taken with a grain of salt.  No one really disputes that.  But consistent  numbers indicate trends and usually indicate what you see on TV.  You could only ignore Trent's yards/carry for so long until you couldn't ignore it anymore.  Trent couldn't read his blocks and his ypc suffered because of it.

 

The fact is, under two head coaching trees, we went from one of the most frequently passing teams to one of the lease frequently passsing teams once Jacoby took over for Luck.  Yeah, we're in close games this year, but we were losing pretty often in 2017.  If you choose to stick your head in the sand about that fact, be my guest.  But don't say the stats mean nothing when your argument is to ignore them and waive them off because the really bad teams pass a lot because they're behind a lot.  That wasn't true when we only won three games in 2017.  It might be relevant to 2019, but lots of teams are in close games throughout the year and that doesn't stop them from maintaining the typical league average 60%/40% pass to run ratio.  We're at the bottom couple of teams in this regard when it comes to leaning on JB's arm.  It's as  much of an indication that the running game is the true strength of this team as it is a necessity because JB makes few mistakes, but he's an (above) average QB on a good team.  I'm glad he's here.  This season would have been a disaster without him.  

 

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You have to stop pretending these stats make your argument for you. They dont. You need to have perspective.

Perhaps it is you that need perspective.  I can see that Reich wants to be a top running team, but I'm not blind to the fact that that may be true, in part due to the fact that our QB is safe, but not where the strength of this offense lies.  JB doesn't need to be Andrew Luck for us to have success in the playoffs, but it is easy to see why the team leaned on Andrew Luck and not Jacoby Brissett.  This is why context matters, because sometimes, the stats bear out what you see with your eyes.

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

Thanks for the explanation.   It makes sense.  In fact, if he did what was expected of him, that one could say he was great.   Adam V played great on Sunday because he did what we expected him to do.  

 

I think Brissett is an above average/good QB.   You have to know what you have in him and the team he is playing for.  He's efficient and doesn't turn the ball over much.  

 

Just on stats alone, he's slightly above average.  14th in QB rating.  5th in TD % and 12th in INT %.  

 

I want to see what he can do when the WR's get back.  He was great against Houston.  That is one game where it seemed he HAD to be.  All the other games were close and Reich kept it a pretty possession based offense.  

 

I still haven't made a decision on Brissett, but I certain he is the 2020 starter.

 

Among qualified passers, his QBR is #16. His EPA for passing plays and TOTAL EPA are #18.

 

I think he's pretty much an average QB...a viable starter...but not a top tier QB. There is a fairly steep drop off after that...so things could definitely be worse.

 

But IMO, this entire JB debate should come down to potential. Personally, I don't want the #15-16 QB leading my team if I am trying to win Super Bowls. So do I think he has the potential to get into that top tier of QBs and lead a top tier offense...one that can get a top 2 seed? IMO...I don't at the moment.

 

That's not to say it's impossible for JB to make that leap...but I am most certainly drafting a QB that I think does have that potential...and letting it play out.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

I saw a good comment somebody made on YouTube They mentioned how Jacoby has shown elite traits a few times this year. Just needs to show more of it on a consistent basis. I can’t wait to get all the WR back and see what happens.  We seen a couple of deep tries Sunday which was nice. Even if you don’t connect it still makes the other team team think about it.

 

Honestly, do you think this is a source of opinion that lends weight to your argument? Actual genuine honest question, because I heard from a guy in the pub that he's show traits of a middle of the road QB at times this year.  

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14 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Honestly, do you think this is a source of opinion that lends weight to your argument? Actual genuine honest question, because I heard from a guy in the pub that he's show traits of a middle of the road QB at times this year.  

It's nice to have the level of honesty though. I usually just steal a good point and don't cite the back of the cereal box I was looking at.

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55 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

That was all Lynn (or the OC)...they inexplicably went away from Gordon in the 2nd half...despite getting it to a one TD game, where they didn't need to pass.

 

Rivers certainly has the authority to check to a run.  Ryan Kelly says JB7 did it a lot vs. Jags.  Pounding the rock and imposing your will against defense deflates them.  Too bad we didn't get 375 against the Jags for payback.  264 was quite satisfying, though.

 

55 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

Rivers is toast though...hopefully he hangs it up after this year. KC dropped another easy INT and got the wrong side of a couple of questionable DPIs.

 

It seems its difficult for good/great QB's to hang them up.  Even when skills decline.  And it seems they never leave the game with the team that drafted/played them.

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14 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Honestly, do you think this is a source of opinion that lends weight to your argument? Actual genuine honest question, because I heard from a guy in the pub that he's show traits of a middle of the road QB at times this year.  

Really that’s what you got out of my comment. I actually agree with it. He has shown flashes of elite plays that only the great ones make. If he can start doing that on a consistent basis he is going to raise his game to the next level. There is no reason for comments like that to take down another posters opinions.

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

I'm not sure what "elite traits" are.   

If it is just making great decisions or making great throws, even most back up QB's do that.   

I think Brissetts ceiling is - Very Good.   Elite isn't even in his sights.  Good thing is that his floor is - Average.  Being careful with the ball keeps him from dropping below average (IMO).

 

 

If you look at some of the plays he has made they are elite. Take the 4th down TD scramble Sunday and that throw to Johnson. That throw getting it into him was not easy and ones the great ones make. The Denver play at the end. He also had a great scramble Sunday with that throw to Ebron. He has shown flashes here and there. That’s what I mean. Can he get to where we see that on a more consistent level.

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4 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Honestly, do you think this is a source of opinion that lends weight to your argument? Actual genuine honest question, because I heard from a guy in the pub that he's show traits of a middle of the road QB at times this year.  

It holds as much weight as your opinion.

 

34 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Except it's not.  If you want to look at each season in a vacuum, be my guest.  But it's as lazy as it is an insistence on ignorance.  Context matters and if you don't believe something as simple as well as critical to any logical analysis, then we really don't have much to discuss.  I don't mean to be pretentious about that, but this will go nowhere if context only matters when it's convenient to only some parties to the conversation.

 

This is the Trent Richardson yards per carry all over again.  Stats, trends, etc. should all be taken with a grain of salt.  No one really disputes that.  But consistent  numbers indicate trends and usually indicate what you see on TV.  You could only ignore Trent's yards/carry for so long until you couldn't ignore it anymore.  Trent couldn't read his blocks and his ypc suffered because of it.

 

The fact is, under two head coaching trees, we went from one of the most frequently passing teams to one of the lease frequently passsing teams once Jacoby took over for Luck.  Yeah, we're in close games this year, but we were losing pretty often in 2017.  If you choose to stick your head in the sand about that fact, be my guest.  But don't say the stats mean nothing when your argument is to ignore them and waive them off because the really bad teams pass a lot because they're behind a lot.  That wasn't true when we only won three games in 2017.  It might be relevant to 2019, but lots of teams are in close games throughout the year and that doesn't stop them from maintaining the typical league average 60%/40% pass to run ratio.  We're at the bottom couple of teams in this regard when it comes to leaning on JB's arm.  It's as  much of an indication that the running game is the true strength of this team as it is a necessity because JB makes few mistakes, but he's an (above) average QB on a good team.  I'm glad he's here.  This season would have been a disaster without him.  

 

Perhaps it is you that need perspective.  I can see that Reich wants to be a top running team, but I'm not blind to the fact that that may be true, in part due to the fact that our QB is safe, but not where the strength of this offense lies.  JB doesn't need to be Andrew Luck for us to have success in the playoffs, but it is easy to see why the team leaned on Andrew Luck and not Jacoby Brissett.  This is why context matters, because sometimes, the stats bear out what you see with your eyes.

 

And there lies your mistake.....stats are NOT to confirm your eye test. Stats are just a record of what happened. Your eye test can tell you why it happened. They dont study the stat sheet to prepare for the next opponent, they watch the film.

 

Look, I played football for many years. I've also volunteered at a football camp for incoming college players for the last 18 years to assist my old HS coach. I know football. But more importantly, I know how limited my knowledge is and the limitations of stats. And I can tell you, with zero doubt in my mind, that stats mean next to nothing. That's why they vary so greatly from game to game. 

 

My old coach compares offense to driving a bus full of kids. The object is to get there safely, every single time. It's not to get there as fast as you can. It's not to outperform everyone on every single drive. It's to be the most consistent, and be as safe as possible. If you crash the bus, or turn the ball over every 5th trip, you've failed. If you get stopped for speeding every 3rd trip, you've failed.

 

You are making a lot of false equivalencies with this post. This isn't the same team as last year. I dont doubt if we had Andrew Luck, we would throw a little more. But that doesn't mean JB cant throw. That's nonsense. It also means we would be taking more risks to produce points. That might be more tempting with Luck, but only because he is extraordinarily capable, not because JB is incapable. It also means we would be neglecting the best part of our offense, which is running the ball.

 

Winning football is about a lot more than your run/pass ratios. Some teams pass more because they cant run effectively. Some teams cant pass or run effectively, so they lean on the pass more because it produces the most yards. Some teams can do.one thing extraordinarily well and lean on that. But, some teams can do both and they are the toughest to defend because they are harder to prepare for. The Colts have proven they can do both, effectively. League wide tendencies and what other teams do mean nothing.

 

What the hell does Trent Richardson have to do with anything? Seriously?

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7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Really that’s what you got out of my comment. I actually agree with it. He has shown flashes of elite plays that only the great ones make. If he can start doing that on a consistent basis he is going to raise his game to the next level. There is no reason for comments like that to take down another posters opinions.

 

You made a 2nd hand anecdotal observation (without attribution). It's completely fair game to "take down" the content of a post as long as it's not a personal attack on the poster. 

1 minute ago, GoatBeard said:

It holds as much weight as your opinion.

 

 

I try to offer more reasons behind my opinion than ergo dicit :dunno:

 

The most constructive dialogue on the topic has come between posters on both sides discussing the evidence as such (stats, All 22). Do you really feel a Youtube comment adds as much as say factual stats?

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6 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Rivers certainly has the authority to check to a run.  Ryan Kelly says JB7 did it a lot vs. Jags.  Pounding the rock and imposing your will against defense deflates them.  Too bad we didn't get 375 against the Jags for payback.  264 was quite satisfying, though.

 

 

It seems its difficult for good/great QB's to hang them up.  Even when skills decline.  And it seems they never leave the game with the team that drafted/played them.

 

It could just be a two-game blip...but man...he looks bad. This will be the last year of Rivers' current deal...so I will be interested to see what direction the team takes. There is certainly enough talent on that team to make a run.

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2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

You made a 2nd hand anecdotal observation (without attribution). It's completely fair game to "take down" the content of a post as long as it's not a personal attack on the poster. 

 

I try to offer more reasons behind my opinion than ergo dicit :dunno:

Your reason for an opinion doesn't make the opinion better. I'm sure an antisemite can give you reasons why hes antisemitic. Doesn't mean he isn't a dipstick. 

 

It was a YouTube comment, they are meant to be brief.

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28 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Honestly, do you think this is a source of opinion that lends weight to your argument? Actual genuine honest question, because I heard from a guy in the pub that he's show traits of a middle of the road QB at times this year.  

you beat me to it haha was gonna ask how a guy on YouTube has any credibility 

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2 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

My old coach compares offense to driving a bus full of kids. The object is to get there safely, every single time. It's not to get there as fast as you can. It's not to outperform everyone on every single drive. It's to be the most consistent, and be as safe as possible. If you crash the bus, or turn the ball over every 5th trip, you've failed. If you get stopped for speeding every 3rd trip, you've failed.

 

I heard a coach once tell us he desires every offensive drive to end with a kick. 

 

Meaning, either a PAT, a FG, or lastly, a punt.  No INT's, no fumbles.  Smith and Glow getting blown up (notably on twists and Stunts) in pass pro really concerns me right now.

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3 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Your reason for an opinion doesn't make the opinion better. I'm sure an antisemite can give you reasons why hes antisemitic. Doesn't mean he isn't a dipstick. 

 

It was a YouTube comment, they are meant to be brief.

 

Not even if the evidence is backed with empirical evidence? 

 

Nice ad hominem about antisemitism, because that's a comparable stance. 


Give me some credit, I didn't attack the brevity of comment, more the choice of offering it up and not attributing/linking it. 

 

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2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Apparently questioning YouTube comments makes me an antisemite. It'll go nicely with my "hater" tag. 

oh well atleast you embrace them haha

 

I'm still trying to find a definition of the world Average that means bad or terrible 

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58 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Among qualified passers, his QBR is #16. His EPA for passing plays and TOTAL EPA are #18.

 

I think he's pretty much an average QB...a viable starter...but not a top tier QB. There is a fairly steep drop off after that...so things could definitely be worse.

 

But IMO, this entire JB debate should come down to potential. Personally, I don't want the #15-16 QB leading my team if I am trying to win Super Bowls. So do I think he has the potential to get into that top tier of QBs and lead a top tier offense...one that can get a top 2 seed? IMO...I don't at the moment.

 

That's not to say it's impossible for JB to make that leap...but I am most certainly drafting a QB that I think does have that potential...and letting it play out.

 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the biggest correlation between Superbowl wins and elite personnal happens when the defense is elite, not when the QB is elite.

 

You need a consistent offense and a smothering defense to win.  The components of both can be achieved in different ways.

 

It's a fact that our defense is closer than our offense to the ideal right now.  I don't mind that for the reason I stated earlier -- elite defenses correlate far more strongly to Superbowl wins.

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33 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If you look at some of the plays he has made they are elite. Take the 4th down TD scramble Sunday and that throw to Johnson. That throw getting it into him was not easy and ones the great ones make. The Denver play at the end. He also had a great scramble Sunday with that throw to Ebron. He has shown flashes here and there. That’s what I mean. Can he get to where we see that on a more consistent level.

Even back up QB's have "elite" plays.   That should not tell you much about the player unless it is consistent.   I mean, Brissett is an NFL QB, of course he will make some great plays.  

Here are a couple potentially "elite" QB's.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Not even if the evidence is backed with empirical evidence? 

 

Nice ad hominem about antisemitism, because that's a comparable stance. 


Give me some credit, I didn't attack the brevity of comment, more the choice of offering it up and not attributing/linking it. 

 

It is a rather extreme example, but it is comparable. I just reach for the low hanging fruit to make my point.

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1 minute ago, Myles said:

Even back up QB's have "elite" plays.   That should not tell you much about the player unless it is consistent.   I mean, Brissett is an NFL QB, of course he will make some great plays.  

Here are a couple potentially "elite" QB's.

 

 

 

You dont think he makes those plays consistently?

 

I do. 

 

I think what sets him apart from guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick, more than anything, is the lack of bad plays. He doesn't have 4 pick in the first half type of games. Which is as much a reason why Fitz is a bad QB as the lack of consistent great plays.

 

But Jacoby makes a great play in just about every single game, and usually at a crucial time. 

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3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Sometimes film and statistics don’t tell the full story. It  doesn’t measure intangibles or certain other traits. I know what my eyes tell me. Nobody should be all caught up in evaluating someone in just film or statistics.

 

Wouldn't your eyes be telling you the same as film/watching the game.... 

 

Unless you're suggesting you can "see" intangibles? 

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4 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

It is a rather extreme example, but it is comparable. I just reach for the low hanging fruit to make my point.

 

One is a position born out of blanket hatred of an entire community of people. It's an extreme position to say the least.

 

The other is a difference of opinion over the assessment of a QB in the NFL, where with the majority of posters, you can have a reasoned back and forth with evidence for/against. Given too that I've often stated that I'm far from saying Brissett isn't potentially the guy moving forward, how does that chime with being extremist? 

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2 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

You dont think he makes those plays consistently?

 

I do. 

 

I think what sets him apart from guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick, more than anything, is the lack of bad plays. He doesn't have 4 pick in the first half type of games. Which is as much a reason why Fitz is a bad QB as the lack of consistent great plays.

 

But Jacoby makes a great play in just about every single game, and usually at a crucial time. 

I don't see more "elite" plays out of Brissett than any other QB really.   You are correct though, what sets him apart is that he doesn't make the mistakes many others do.  That's what makes him above average to me.   

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1 minute ago, Myles said:

I don't see more "elite" plays out of Brissett than any other QB really.   You are correct though, what sets him apart is that he doesn't make the mistakes many others do.  That's what makes him above average to me.   

I agree he probably doesn't produce a great amount, but I also think he is clutch. He seems to pull them out when he needs them. 

7 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I was clearly being tongue in cheek, 

Well I'm glad because that wasn't what I was trying to say. I'm just bad at using examples and tend to go for the most extreme thing I can think of. 

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9 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

One is a position born out of blanket hatred of an entire community of people. It's an extreme position to say the least.

 

The other is a difference of opinion over the assessment of a QB in the NFL, where with the majority of posters, you can have a reasoned back and forth with evidence for/against. Given too that I've often stated that I'm far from saying Brissett isn't potentially the guy moving forward, how does that chime with being extremist? 

Yeah but the comment was about opinions. Not the extreme nature of them. Just opinions. 

 

It was just a poor example.

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My impressions of Jacoby this week.  

 

Nice 4th down play on the goal line.  The fumble was recovered.  Interception irrelevant.   Didn't have to do much else with 270 yds rushing.

 

 

QB play was not particularly relevant Sunday.  Domination by Colts lines on both sides of the ball.

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20 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

I agree he probably doesn't produce a great amount, but I also think he is clutch. He seems to pull them out when he needs them. 

Well I'm glad because that wasn't what I was trying to say. I'm just bad at using examples and tend to go for the most extreme thing I can think of. 

 

Fair enough :thmup:

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1 hour ago, GoatBeard said:

It holds as much weight as your opinion.

 

 

And there lies your mistake.....stats are NOT to confirm your eye test. Stats are just a record of what happened. Your eye test can tell you why it happened. They dont study the stat sheet to prepare for the next opponent, they watch the film.

 

 

 

You do realize that scouts all the time talk about how certain data points and stats support what you see on tape, right?  Forget high school.  That is irrelevant.  Completely.  The longer the NFL exists, the more new analytics come out and teams DEPEND on them.  They are not the sole analytical factor, but they are a piece of the puzzle.  The same is true when they analyze their opponent.  How often they run certain plays in certain situations, everything about gaining an advantage over your opponent starts with a statistical analysis.  It informs them what package to have in so that you can utilize your players strengths and minimize their weakensses.  It just does, and the fact that you are insisting that it does not, really just shows the depths to which you do not get it and your refusal to want to understand.  I'm not telling you any of this because that's what I think about stats.  I'm saying it because the people that do it for a living say that.  All I can do is take what I have learned over time and learn how to do it as much/well as an armchair QB could.  

 

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You are making a lot of false equivalencies with this post. This isn't the same team as last year. I dont doubt if we had Andrew Luck, we would throw a little more. But that doesn't mean JB cant throw. That's nonsense. It also means we would be taking more risks to produce points. That might be more tempting with Luck, but only because he is extraordinarily capable, not because JB is incapable. It also means we would be neglecting the best part of our offense, which is running the ball.

I never said JB can't throw.  I never even said he was incapable.  All I've said is that the best part of our offense is running the ball because JB is throwing the football.  That wasn't true last year, even if we were running the ball as efficiently last year as we currently are.  I still think we'd be throwing more because Luck was good enough that we'd rather utilize Luck's arm than the running game.

 

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What the hell does Trent Richardson have to do with anything? Seriously?

I didn't think you'd have trouble understanding that.  It was an analogy.  People kept pointing to how bad his yards per carry were.  The pro-Trent group argued that it's not because he was bad, it was the OL and learning an ew offense.  Then it never got any better, people were showing film of how he was missing gaping holes right in front of him.  It was people refusing to look at the bad stats Trent was putting up and chalking it to something else (the line, unfamiliarity, etc.).  

 

That's what you are doing.  Could it be a combination of the things you ar esaying?  i.e. that the ratio is because some times can't do certain things well or are always behind.  Sure, but the second someone points to the fact that it might suggest that Reich doesn't think Brissett is not the long term answer, context doesn't matter (but somehow, high school football does), Reich doesn't feel that way because he said he wants to run the ball more (ignoring the possibility that that might just be because Reich doesn't think JB's the long term answer), and JB's being held back by the talent around him (you haven't said this in our conversation, but others have and I can't wrap my head around it since he's had virtually the same WRs and TEs, the same running backs and the same OL).  

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