Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

[SteelCityColt]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I guess if Vinny makes his kicks this team would be 9-1

That is something you fail to recognize or give credit. 

 

Sure, but you can play that game with any number of plays in a game. Ifs, buts.. maybes. If the refs hadn't made some egregious calls in the Steelers game we probably win etc etc. We could as easily be 2-7 

 

That's why the focus on the winning margin of being a score or less. Over a larger sample teams tend to regress towards the mean because the plays, for and against, even out. If you look at the Pythagorean expectation for the team, we're over (and it was way worse before yesterday). That's bad. It suggests your manner of winning games isn't sustainable, and you have to remember it's not just about this season. 

 

This is why the last game was probably the best sign of progress, we didn't just win, we controlled the game and dominated up front. Before you cry foul of Brissett not getting his due, he played very well and I was enthused to see the deep attempts. Perfect when you've been smashing them in the mouth. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

 

The running game made the statement today.

 

It's called 'taking what the defense gives you'.  To abandon the run and throw more would be ludicrous.

 

6 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

I like jacoby alot, but aside from the incredible 4th down td pass, obi-wan jacoby had an average afternoon.  15 of 24, 148 yrds. 76 rating......

 

Here is the results from the 'Greatest QB ever' last night-

 

                          C  /  ATT       YDS        AVG       TD INT    SACKS     QBR      RTG

Tom Brady     26 /  47          216         4.6          0     0         1-7          32.5      67.3

 

and he threw twice as much as JB7 because they only had 74 yards on 22 rushing attempts.

 

Guess that guy isn't all that great...

 

6 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

hes good, but if hes the answer in indy (and I'm not saying he isn't)  the qb worship has to go. 

 

Define "QB worship?' 

 

6 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

Hes just not that guy.  With jacoby under center it's a team effort.  Hes as good as the pieces around him. 

 

Most teams/QB's  it's the same.

 

6 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

Hes charged with not making a mistake, he's not the showcase of this offense.  

 

I'm fine with that, for now, as a better option isn't readily available.

 

6 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

If he's had a statement game this year it was our first tilt vs Houston.

That being the case, I'm definitely looking forward to him making another statement this Thursday.  

 

That game, and more after.

[crazycolt1]

17 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

It's called 'taking what the defense gives you'.  To abandon the run and throw more would be ludicrous.

 

 

Here is the results from the 'Greatest QB ever' last night-

 

                          C  /  ATT       YDS        AVG       TD INT    SACKS     QBR      RTG

Tom Brady     26 /  47          216         4.6          0     0         1-7          32.5      67.3

 

and he threw twice as much as JB7 because they only had 74 yards on 22 rushing attempts.

 

Guess that guy isn't all that great...

 

 

Define "QB worship?' 

 

 

Most teams/QB's  it's the same.

 

 

I'm fine with that, for now, as a better option isn't readily available.

 

 

That game, and more after.

Had Brady, Mahomes, Rogers or any other popular QB made that scramble and TD throw it would be all over Sports Center and every high light reel on any sports show. 

4th down play? That play was as clutch as any play on Sunday for any team. 

[aaron11]

41 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

It's called 'taking what the defense gives you'.  To abandon the run and throw more would be ludicrous.

 

 

Here is the results from the 'Greatest QB ever' last night-

 

                          C  /  ATT       YDS        AVG       TD INT    SACKS     QBR      RTG

Tom Brady     26 /  47          216         4.6          0     0         1-7          32.5      67.3

 

and he threw twice as much as JB7 because they only had 74 yards on 22 rushing attempts.

 

Guess that guy isn't all that great...

 

 

Define "QB worship?' 

 

 

Most teams/QB's  it's the same.

 

 

I'm fine with that, for now, as a better option isn't readily available.

 

 

That game, and more after.

 

brady is declining, but still winning because hes on the best team

[aaron11]

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So where are those posters who were ragging all over JB before this game? 

JB may not have those fantasy numbers that some other QBs have but he is this teams leader. 

Nuff said. 

im right here, jacoby played like he always does. i think most people would say we won because of the running game, look at the numbers 

 

to me JB is average to below average but doesnt lose games and we can win with running.  not a long term answer to me, but hes the best we have right now

[SteelCityColt]

45 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Here is the results from the 'Greatest QB ever' last night-

 

                          C  /  ATT       YDS        AVG       TD INT    SACKS     QBR      RTG

Tom Brady     26 /  47          216         4.6          0     0         1-7          32.5      67.3

 

 

If you took any one game in isolation you can make any QB look better/worse than they actually are. Going back to your previous point that's why a decent sample is needed. I think we'll get that, as barring anything major Brissett is starting the next 22 (regular season ) games I'd say. 

 

You could look at Brissett's numbers and say they weren't stellar at all, which they weren't, but I would still say it was one of his better, if  not 2nd best game so far this season IMO.  

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

im right here, jacoby played like he always does. i think most people would say we won because of the running game, look at the numbers 

 

to me JB is average to below average but doesnt lose games and we can win with running.  not a long term answer to me, but hes the best we have right now

Jeez, had any QB down his best 2 receivers did what JB did yesterday he would be all over the sports shows. 

Just the scramble and TD pass to Johnson was a thing of beauty. 

Saying JB plays like he normally does? What? A winner? 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

10 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

If you took any one game in isolation you can make any QB look better/worse than they actually are. Going back to your previous point that's why a decent sample is needed. I think we'll get that, as barring anything major Brissett is starting the next 22 (regular season ) games I'd say. 

 

You could look at Brissett's numbers and say they weren't stellar at all, which they weren't, but I would still say it was one of his better, if  not 2nd best game so far this season IMO.  

but how does he keep on winning?

[Sumo63]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

It's called 'taking what the defense gives you'.  To abandon the run and throw more would be ludicrous.

 

 

Here is the results from the 'Greatest QB ever' last night-

 

                          C  /  ATT       YDS        AVG       TD INT    SACKS     QBR      RTG

Tom Brady     26 /  47          216         4.6          0     0         1-7          32.5      67.3

 

and he threw twice as much as JB7 because they only had 74 yards on 22 rushing attempts.

 

Guess that guy isn't all that great...

 

 

Define "QB worship?' 

 

 

Most teams/QB's  it's the same.

 

 

I'm fine with that, for now, as a better option isn't readily available.

 

 

That game, and more after.

QB worship is the national obsession with who is elite and who is not.  I'm not caught up in that Jacoby.  If hes allowed to continue to do what he does best colts are in pretty good shape.  It's a team sport, as of now Jacoby isnt "elite" and I dont really mind.

 

I dont think I said anything negative about jacoby or his performance.  An average day with few errors is a good thing.  Nor did I say we should have abandoned the run.  And I definitely didnt say I wanted him replaced.

 

All I was saying was I didnt see this one game as a statement game for brissett.  For the running game as a whole yes, for the individual under center, not really.

 

Again I like the guy, alot, always have.  I just see him more in the mold of Alex Smith than Peyton Manning.  I'm fine with that comparitive.

 

Dont really care what Tom Brady did last night.  I'm not trying to put jacoby toe to toe with tom.  QB worship........ 

 

People are sensitive this morning.......

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Jeez, had any QB down his best 2 receivers did what JB did yesterday he would be all over the sports shows. 

Just the scramble and TD pass to Johnson was a thing of beauty. 

Saying JB plays like he normally does? What? A winner? 

some qbs manage to win, some manage to lose, we have one that manages to win

[aaron11]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Saying JB plays like he normally does? What? A winner? 

he doesnt actually have a winning record...

 

he wins when he has a very good running game like we do this year though.   the running backs got more yards and points than he did yesterday 

[SteelCityColt]

20 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

but how does he keep on winning?

 

Because he doesn't, the team does. Taking yesterday as an example, you don't often see teams have 2 100 yard rushers and lose. Why I said above using wins to assess a QB isn't a good metric. 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Because he doesn't, the team does. Taking yesterday as an example, you don't often see teams have 2 100 yard rushers and lose. Why I said above using wins to assess a QB isn't a good metric. 

give me a winner over a qb with big personal stats and losses, as you say it is a team game not a one man show, some qbs know how to use the team to win and  some play for personal stats and lose

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, DEFENSE said:

give me a winner over a qb with big personal stats and losses, as you say it is a team game not a one man show, some qbs know how to use the team to win and  some play for personal stats and lose

 

Well, if you want to look at the most successful QBs (in your eyes the ones with more "wins"), they also tend to have a certain commonalities in certain metrics. Adjusted Net Yards/Attempt being the closest to a catch all metric, but I'd say you need to look at your %s (Int/TD/Cmp/Sk) as well. Note that I def don't hold up pure volume as a good indicator. Given the sample size of games we're looking at when you look over a career span, it's fair to they say they are significant metrics. 

 

Going to your point about playing for personal glory, would you say the stat leaders (Brees/Manning/Brady) are in that camp? 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

27 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

he doesnt actually have a winning record...

 

he wins when he has a very good running game like we do this year though.   the running backs got more yards and points than he did yesterday 

jb knows how to use the whole team to win, some qbs are more concerned with their personal stats and then they throw ints trying to do it all themselves.

[chad72]

I wonder why we didn't use the plan for running Mack more against the Dolphins with a 3rd stringer playing QB. If we had, we'd be sitting pretty now. The team probably overlooked them or something. Bills did not and they crushed the Dolphins on their turf. 

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

I wonder why we didn't use the plan for running Mack more against the Dolphins with a 3rd stringer playing QB. If we had, we'd be sitting pretty now. The team probably overlooked them or something. Bills did not and they crushed the Dolphins on their turf. 

 

the blocking wasnt as good in that game, the holes were pretty big yesterday

 

 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Well, if you want to look at the most successful QBs (in your eyes the ones with more "wins"), they also tend to have a certain commonalities in certain metrics. Adjusted Net Yards/Attempt being the closest to a catch all metric, but I'd say you need to look at your %s (Int/TD/Cmp/Sk) as well. Note that I def don't hold up pure volume as a good indicator. Given the sample size of games we're looking at when you look over a career span, it's fair to they say they are significant metrics. 

 

Going to your point about playing for personal glory, would you say the stat leaders (Brees/Manning/Brady) are in that camp? 

no they knew how to use the team to help win, as does jb with our running game, some on here want him to throw for 300 yds a game, why? just for good personal stats, give me the win and use the teams talent not a one man show

[SteelCityColt]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

I wonder why we didn't use the plan for running Mack more against the Dolphins with a 3rd stringer playing QB. If we had, we'd be sitting pretty now. The team probably overlooked them or something. Bills did not and they crushed the Dolphins on their turf. 

 

He got a number of carries in line with his usual and overall the team rushing attempts were about our norm. The ground game just wasn't all that effective (3.8 Y/A vs season average 4.6 Y/A)

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, DEFENSE said:

no they knew how to use the team to help win, as does jb with our running game, some on here want him to throw for 300 yds a game, why? just for good personal stats, give me the win and use the teams talent not a one man show

 

This is a bit of trope, I don't think any poster has called for that. As I said above, volume flatters to deceive. Give me solid ANY/A all day long, the volume will follow normally anyway. 

 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

He got a number of carries in line with his usual and overall the team rushing attempts were about our norm. The ground game just wasn't all that effective (3.8 Y/A vs season average 4.6 Y/A)

could it be because hoyer telegraphed running plays? jb is very good at fake handoffs

[krunk]

Im cool with JB. I think he can and will improve. Especially when he plays more with starting level WRs versus back ups. Im not expecting the Colts to draft another QB this offseason. I think they will opt to improve the team around him. Again i say for us to package up multiple picks for the sake of moving up to draft a QB, JB would really have to wet the bed down the stretch this year. I dont see that happening.

[SteelCityColt]

3 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

could it be because hoyer telegraphed running plays? jb is very good at fake handoffs

 

I'm going to be honest, I was half cut when the game started, and as it was so dire I felt the need to drink more. As a consequence, large parts of the game are a blurry haze that I have no wish to revisit. 

[crazycolt1]

45 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

he doesnt actually have a winning record...

 

he wins when he has a very good running game like we do this year though.   the running backs got more yards and points than he did yesterday 

Using his record from two years ago is a bias way of making your point. He was sacked and hit more than any QB in the league. 

Get real. 

[krunk]

49 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

he doesnt actually have a winning record...

 

he wins when he has a very good running game like we do this year though.   the running backs got more yards and points than he did yesterday 

This sounds like all the same stuff people would say over and over again to dismiss Russell Wilson.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I'm going to be honest, I was half cut when the game started, and as it was so dire I felt the need to drink more. As a consequence, large parts of the game are a blurry haze that I have no wish to revisit. 

drinking makes the game more exciting for me, if we win, and more terrible when we lose. but i drink hoping for a win

[aaron11]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Using his record from two years ago is a bias way of making your point. He was sacked and hit more than any QB in the league. 

Get real. 

so dismiss losses on a bad team but count the wins on a good team?  

 

i dont see him doing enough to win a SB, thats my only real complaint about him

[SteelCityColt]

16 minutes ago, krunk said:

This sounds like all the same stuff people would say over and over again to dismiss Russell Wilson.

 

To an extent true, but even in early Wilson days they abused the P/A deep shots and even as a rookie he threw a lovely deep ball. His ANY/A has been consistently good. 

[aaron11]

lots of qbs in this draft may not have to move up

 

may not take one at all either, i just kind of hope they do

[stitches]

24 minutes ago, krunk said:

This sounds like all the same stuff people would say over and over again to dismiss Russell Wilson.

Except Russell Wilson has always had exceptional individual QB indicators and is one of the best most prolific throwers downfield. This is not true with Brissett. 

 

[The Fish]

Yesterday did nothing to change mind about JB's game. Real positive attributes, that scramble/TD toss was his game in a nut shell. He also isn't an efficient passer and when his backs are going off, it should be a little easier for him and the numbers don't show efficiency, but injuries are going to play into it. It really is hard to find guys who can play.. I mean honestly, JB or Jameis (#1 pick no less)... I'm settling in on the idea that he's going to be the long term guy, but things are going to have to be pretty good around him for it work well enough to win.

[SteelCityColt]

2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Yesterday did nothing to change mind about JB's game. Real positive attributes, that scramble/TD toss was his game in a nut shell. He also isn't an efficient passer and when his backs are going off, it should be a little easier for him and the numbers don't show efficiency, but injuries are going to play into it. It really is hard to find guys who can play.. I mean honestly, JB or Jameis (#1 pick no less)... I'm settling in on the idea that he's going to be the long term guy, but things are going to have to be pretty good around him for it work well enough to win.

 

I'm curious as to why people bring up Winston all the time, he's absolutely nothing like Brissett in terms of play style? 

[The Fish]

8 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I'm curious as to why people bring up Winston all the time, he's absolutely nothing like Brissett in terms of play style? 

That's kind of my point. I'm thinking big, semi mobile guys (edit, they're almost exactly the same size...) who have a perfect dichotomy in terms of production, one guy can really throw the ball around the yard but doesn't protect it, one guy doesn't have prolific passing gift but is great at protecting it. FWIW it wasn't a race thing, if that needs said. 

[SteelCityColt]

4 minutes ago, The Fish said:

That's kind of my point. I'm thinking big, semi mobile guys (edit, they're almost exactly the same size...) who have a perfect dichotomy in terms of production, one guy can really throw the ball around the yard but doesn't protect it, one guy doesn't have prolific passing gift but is great at protecting it. FWIW it wasn't a race thing, if that needs said. 

 

Ahh I get you more, for me they represent the ends of the aggressiveness scale. I do wonder if this year Winston knows he's done and just flat our doesn't care if he throws a pick or not. 

[stitches]

 

12 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I'm curious as to why people bring up Winston all the time, he's absolutely nothing like Brissett in terms of play style? 

It's because he's the absolute opposite of what Brissett is. It's their way to strawman the people who want more big-time throws and more throws downfield. Because Winston is the most careless and most aggressive and reckless passer in the league... it's their way of saying "see - this is what you want, how can you want this insanity and carelessness... and Jacoby is what we want... Jacoby is so much better than Winston because he doesn't turn the ball over 3 times a game"... as if there is nothing in between 3 turnovers a game and being one of the most conservative throwers in the league(and thus not turning it over almost ever)...

 

They don't get that neither of those styles of play is great for long-term success. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

QB worship is the national obsession with who is elite and who is not.  I'm not caught up in that Jacoby.  If hes allowed to continue to do what he does best colts are in pretty good shape.  It's a team sport, as of now Jacoby isnt "elite" and I dont really mind.

 

He's not elite. However, he is getting better as time passes.

 

Quote

I dont think I said anything negative about jacoby or his performance.  An average day with few errors is a good thing.  Nor did I say we should have abandoned the run.  And I definitely didnt say I wanted him replaced.

 

OK

 

Quote

All I was saying was I didnt see this one game as a statement game for brissett.  For the running game as a whole yes, for the individual under center, not really.

 

OK

 

How about the play calling? How about team execution?

 

Quote

Again I like the guy, alot, always have.  I just see him more in the mold of Alex Smith than Peyton Manning.  I'm fine with that comparitive.

 

Alex Smith was 1st overall draft pick in 2005...  not bad for a 3rd rounder.

 

Quote

Dont really care what Tom Brady did last night.  I'm not trying to put jacoby toe to toe with tom.  QB worship........ 

 

Some people like to complain without offering solutions too.

 

Quote

People are sensitive this morning.......

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

he wins when he has a very good running game like we do this year though.

{snip}

 

Finally!  Running game is important. Especially in outdoors winter weather. Playoff conditions.

 

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Because he doesn't, the team does. Taking yesterday as an example, you don't often see teams have 2 100 yard rushers and lose. Why I said above using wins to assess a QB isn't a good metric. 

 

But a running game and stingy defense are two things that travel well, and survive in poor, windy, wintry weather. Something the Colts haven't really had over the years.  Let's hope the run game and D continue!  I'm all for it, even if that means Brissett won't put up Star Wars numbers...

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Finally!  Running game is important. Especially in outdoors winter weather. Playoff conditions.

 

 

But a running game and stingy defense are two things that travel well, and survive in poor, windy, wintry weather. Something the Colts haven't really had over the years.  Let's hope the run game and D continue!  I'm all for it, even if that means Brissett won't put up Star Wars numbers...

The O schemes around the league have begun to swing back away from the run and gun style of the late 90s and 2000s

[krunk]

45 minutes ago, stitches said:

Except Russell Wilson has always had exceptional individual QB indicators and is one of the best most prolific throwers downfield. This is not true with Brissett. 

 

But the Colts continue to love him for what reason?  Its certainly not just based on his leadership.  And again we're talking about a guy who started 1 and half seasons and is still growing.   Certainly he can't be the only QB in this league who didn't have exceptional QB indicators in year 2 of his career.  I'm sure RG3 had a good QB indicator in year 1 but what the heck does that mean?  The rest of his career went south. 

[stitches]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Because he doesn't, the team does. Taking yesterday as an example, you don't often see teams have 2 100 yard rushers and lose. Why I said above using wins to assess a QB isn't a good metric. 

I am on the verge of giving up on talking about Brissett. It's a bit of a moot point... It almost doesn't matter what's happening on the field. If we win, it will be counted as some sort of a statement game for Brissett - if he throws well - see he's a great thrower, if he hands the ball for 250 yards, it will be - see, he's a great leader, etc. 

 

The level of snark and "I told you so" comments regarding the play of Brissett for a game in which we ran for 250 yards and gave up 7 points in non-garbage time is kind of surprising to me. It smacks of desperation and lack of any sort of desire to objectively evaluate what's happening on the field.